Thanks for the hand across the aisle GT...
Posted By: sam on 2008-07-25
In Reply to: Bury the hatchet - Me, too
and please keep your moniker if you wish...it does fit your life experience. I will remain sam. And yes, I believe we are big enough to put this behind us and start new. Neither of us are wrong...we are just very different...that doesn't mean we can't discuss and try to understand one another. I do look forward to lively discussions...I wish you the best in your job search, hope you find a really great one.
Looking forward to your return!
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Thanks for that hand across the aisle...
and you hit the nail on the head. We are different, but we can find common ground and be civil. I look forward to visiting with you in the future about all the issues. Good evening to ya!
And my politics and faith are hand in hand. Plus I'm just answering her question.
x
The 2 issues you describe usually go hand-in-hand.
keep women out of power. The old 'barefoot-and-pregnant' story. As a feminist, I wouldn't vote for a candidate who was against EITHER issue. Being pro-choice has nothing to do with hating babies, etc. Pro-choice has to do with keeping a very personal, private choice just that: Personal & Private, between a woman and her doctor, and no-one else. If a woman hasn't any power over her OWN reproductive system, and whether or not the time is right (if ever) to bear a child, she certainly isn't going to be given much else to be in charge of, either.
The only reason this issue EVER became a hotbed political issue is that the religious fanatics in this country, who have been trying to control the reins of government, picked an issue that was certain to divide people. They took this choice out of the doctor's office and put it in the public eye so that the country could be divided, and in that way 'conquered'. Have to hand it to 'em, some of the campaign tactics, as repugnant as they are, have been pretty slick. Shows they've got some pretty fancy lawyers. The terrorist tactics (threatening, and even sometimes killing) docs who perform TABs; harrassing women entering family-planning clinics; and chasing some family planning clinics out of some towns.
There used to be a clinic a few blocks from my home, and every Friday this looney-tune and his whacked-out buddies would block park a truck with pictures of fetuses on it, and would block an entire sidewalk with their signs, fake babies (dolls), themselves, etc. I guess they think they're scaring people with their pictures & signs, but it only serves to infuriate them. In large part, the attempts to overthrow Roe vs Wade by the religious lunatics of the world is one of the main reasons I stopped voting Republican after Ronald Reagan, and voted Democratic instead.
And then of course there is the issue of our jobs. When that all started going down the toilet (or shall I say - to the Third World) I realized the 'trickle-down effect' I'd been led to believe when I was a Republican in the past was a lie. It doesn't trickle DOWN, the money only gushes UP -- to the ones who already have the most of it.
politics and religion go hand in hand...
Whether or not we like it, many of our laws are governed by religion. Without some sort of religion, who is to say that murder is "wrong," thus making it a religious argument, not a political one (by your methodology) and, yet, we still have a law against it.
Candidates on both sides of the aisle have talked about...
affordable health care as long as I can remember. What they NEVER talk about is how they are going to realistically fund it. Hillary's plan ends up by being funded by the people who never get sick, who end up paying for all those who do get sick (that is the reader's digest version). And that is unfair in my book. That is what I am interested in seeing. When people say "America should provide health insurance for all Americans" what that means is, we will be paying for it through taxes. There is no other way to pay for it. The government has no money in and of itself...it is our tax money they fund things with. So, while your premiums may go down, your taxes will inevitably go UP, because that is how they are going to fund it. There is no magic answer here, at least from where I am sitting. One candidate talked about funding it through raising taxes on cigarettes. That is all well and good, but is it really the responsibility of people who smoke to pay for health care for America? And fewer and fewer people are even starting to smoke...so when smokers die off or quit because cigarettes get too expensive...then what? What will they tax next to pay for it? I am always interested in the specifics of how to pay for it. I don't like to hear "we will figure that out later." And, again, any plan is wholly dependent upon whether you can get both sides of the aisle on board for it...President can't pass it on his own. I just hope they will be honest and forthcoming about how they intend to pay for it.
There's that deafening silence from the other side of the aisle.
But not for long. That greed gang is going down...double-digits, T-minus 14 and counting.
Bush did reach across the aisle. They refused to
nm
I really agree with you, but since "they" have not extended the hadn across the aisle,......sm
so to speak, I felt that SOMEONE has to, we have to get this thinking ingrained and replacing this old, worn-out, stupid arcaic partison bullying and namecalling, and SOMEONE has to be the bigger person...why not an old Democrat like me??? :-) but I truly believe what I am saying also, friend!
I have seen some bullying get out of hand first hand
during the same grocery strikes that I referred to in the very small town where I grew up. Scabs were beat up and such. I am not saying it's the norm, but there can be tremendous pressure to vote one way or another--as can be seen right here.
O was wise ... wait... wait... I'm rolling in the aisle.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Osamabama 'distances' himself from every lame association he ever had with his rat pack of radical nut job friends.
And if he's lucky enough to get elected, he's going to distance himself from his fawning flock as soon as his advisors tell him there's no way in hades to pay for his free po'folk tax cuts he promised without throwing the economy into the tank.
hand ups?
On a prior post, I dont know which conservative one of them posted to me that democrats only give hand outs, republicans give hand ups. I asked her to post what hand ups republicans ever have given to the poor and disadvantaged and all I got was a tirade about democrats promoting welfare, etc..the usual baloney from republicans..I still would like the poster to give me a few examples of what ever have republicans done to help the poor of America.
On the other hand....
Since all you guys couldn't see any big deal with Clinton's lying, you should'nt be losing too much sleep over this.
on the other hand
if a teacher was teaching a geography class and was teaching say on Israel. If he/she brought up say the name, Jesus Christ, and gave his opinion about Christ (let's assume the teacher is pro Jesus Christ) then I think his head would have rolled. He wouldn't be on leave. He would be fired immediately.
I heard the excerpts of this tape and the guy was off the deep end and basically giving a political diatribe. If a teacher cannot talk about religion and reiterate their beliefs I think the same should go for politics. Heck, I took three different POLITICAL science classes between the time I went to high school and graduated college, and all those teachers managed not to go off on a diatribe about a particular politician or a political group. As a class we did discuss the differences, but the teachers remained professionally neutral. I think a geography teacher should be professional and objective enough to teach geography without calling someone Hitler.
The darned thing about free speech is that it needs to be applied to everyone not just the viewpoints that one particular group agrees with. I have no problem with free speech as long as the opposite viewpoint is welcomed too. This does not seem to be happening in public schools. It seems one particular political viewpoint wants to hold a monopoly on free speech, and monopolozing free speech is basically nullifying it.
On the other hand.......
There are people who consider themselves homosexuals but because THEY believe it is wrong to act upon those feelings, they and only they choose not to participate in homosexual acts. Why is that?
then she should sue for $1, another lib with hand out....nm
//
That's not God's hand,....(sm)
that's US money.
On the Other Hand
The Republicans specifically slashed $40 billion in direct aid to states from this bill, states that are already reeling from budget shortfalls. This means huge cutbacks in essential state services like police, firefighters, teachers, and state hospitals and massive state layoffs in all areas. This will result in the loss of about 500,000 jobs as a consequence of slashing direct aid to states.
There was absolutely no reason to deny this aid to states except for Senate Republicans deciding they had to cut something, so this was it. They have no coherent approach to the stimulus package except that they don't like spending of any kind, and they've built up the least effective parts of the bill at the expense of the most effective parts.
Our house is on fire!!! And one factor of the fire department thinks the best way to put out the fire is with fewer firefighters and tax cuts, and they want to study the fire some more.
on the other hand...
We have gotten weekly checks regularly for 3 years (not enough to do anything with, but some grocery money) and all his medical expenses have been paid. However, we are now looking at not having any more medical care for the next 15 years because they refuse to do the knee replacement he needs until he is 45 years old. Also, the WC weekly checks are only there for 7 years total. After that, they owe you nothing. Plus, once you go back to work, the WC is hard to get to pay because they try to claim that you "reinjured" yourself on your new job.
We have a very good doctor that we use, he is just limited to the treatments he can offer.
Now, we will just have to let our private health insurance start picking up the payments for anything done.
On the other hand
Does this mean the affected couples can use this as a tax deduction since requiring a permit for the scheduled gatherings would put them into the 'business' category?
It would be well worth checking into.
Fight fire with fire...
You might be right, on the other hand. (see inside)
hand ups?? Where?? When?? In your dreams.
You mean like hand ups into the noose of a rope? Hand ups into the rope tied behind a car to drag a poor unfortunate Black man? Hand ups with a full five fingers and then put the other ones down and only leave the middle one standing? Where, where have republicans given a hand up to the poor and unfortunate in America? It has always been the democrats who have devised programs to help unfortunates..and yet when republicans fall on hard times they will use the democratic programs. I have a friend who is solid republican and we decided years ago not to talk politics, to save our friendship. Yet, when she got pregnant and had no one to turn to, as she was unmarried and her family was not nearby..what did she do? Applied for Welfare, Medicare, you name it..The government paid for her pregnancy and surgery and has continued to pay for health care for her daughter..Yet, she is one who always would nag me and rag me about being democrat/liberal..Republicans are a bunch of hypocrites.
The upper hand? TI
17 plus Arab nations and Israel. Yes. That makes sense.
2 first hand experiences
1) In London, many many years ago when my then husband was a chemical engineer working in the Middle East (we were on vacation in London) I became sick and a friend took me to a clinic. I saw a doctor, had tests, 1 xray, got medications and walked out. I kept asking "where do I pay, who do I pay?" and they said, it is free and I was not even a British citizen.
2) As far as insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies go...there is the crux of the problem. When we moved here to Tennessee, I went all over the place trying to get some assistance with my medication bills which had cost me close to $500 per month in Florida. I was not poor enough to qualify for any supplementals, and could not afford $500 a month (I had cut down to the 3 meds I really needed in Florida and just did without the other 2). Anyway, eventually, due to East Tennessee being a poor part of the state and people going without here a lot, certain pharmacies have cut almost all their overhead and have the least expensive of all medications. These are small "mom and pop" places, completely legal and above board, in fact, most are across the street from hospitals for convenience. What once cost me $500 for all 5 RXs now costs me $68. What does that tell you about pharmaceutical companies. I have a hard time believing the insurance companies are any better. Quite a profit margin I would say.
I have seen the stories about people going to India. They say the cost of flying, medical attention and aftercare is still less than it is here and that they can see a doctor of their choosing at a hospital of their choosing. It was on 20/20 or 60 minutes.
Thx - the attacks are really getting out of hand
Reminds me of that line in the movie where the guy says "I'm mad as he!! and I'm not going to take it anymore". Really though, I've read back through all the posts and not one post about something positive about Obama's plans. Just attacks to the other side and other posters. I feel if I'm going to get this I might as well just turn on MSNBC, and now I get my MIL who has such hatred for Bush is coming out saying that today market failure (whatever you call it- that 300 or so point drop) she's saying that is McCain and Palin' fault. I don't even get into political arguments with her anymore. It's just mind numbing how closed their minds are. Glad you liked my post.
Sure and the pubs had no hand in it at all.
Maybe if the pubs weren't so against regulating it may have been averted too.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/22/us/politics/22mccain.html?_r=2&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&ref=politics&pagewanted=print&adxnnlx=1222092873-DDzUm2VKJMYWutTohJrNDQ
You want to know about |AIG first hand? I live in...sm
Stowe Vermont. The Stowe ski resort was built as a pet project many years ago by AIG. It was very low key for many, many years for many reasons, zoning etc. So lovely and pristine, no high rise condos, a quaint small town Vermont experience. A few years ago, after years of wrangling, permits were obtained for a huge VERY luxury hotel, ski base lodge, million plus dollar condos, high end shopping in a ski village etc. Fast forward a few years, the hotel is completed and the base lodge almost done, condos halfway complete, no village yet. I guess that technically we Americans now own 80% of this resort. Maybe I can get a subsidized ski pass? I haven't heard of any slow down with the development, but I could be wrong. I wonder if we will be sold off but I doubt it. Very interesting. No one has any idea of the excesses of corporate America over the last 50 years.
You sure do hand her credit for ...
having a lot of power. I like Palin, but I don't believe that she has the power to "almost single handedly divide the country." Perhaps she is a better leader than I thought...
Then fairness should go on the other hand
Just skip over the posts you don't like.
First hand knowledge..........sm
My pastor received one of these letters just prior to the election.
Theory proven. End of research.
You cannot have it both ways. On one hand you...sm
say he is not doing enough and on the other is is asserting himself and being disrespectful. Which is it? Nothing he does or says is going to be right for you repubs.
I know, I know (raising hand)..
It was tada - Bush.
What's that I see? Your hand reaching for your
stimulus check? Come on, fess up. You know that's why you voted for him and why you can so piously state that everyone who voted for him still supports him. No they don't. You don't get out much, do you?
Hand outs?
My handicapped son had to go to the SS office today so they could review his SSI. Because he made $2,040 last year at the sheltered workshop he works in, they are cutting his benefits back. He can't live alone and he is barely making it sharing a house with his sister at his present level of benefits. So, tell me about all the free handouts.
More wisdom in his right hand than the whole
.
Microscope in hand...LOL...(sm)
Bush screws up the economy...
Yeah, you left off the part about not fixing it, but okay. As I've noted before, this country has been sold to the highest bidder, starting with the Reagan admin. Between that and deregulation (by both parties) it has been a mess. However, when Clinton left, we did have the deficit under control. That was shot to crap by Bush. He spent his behind off, and nobody on the right said a word about it, but they are having a frenzy now that Obama HAS to spend to get us out of this mess.
How is Obama going to recoup that? Hopefully by cutting unnecessary programs (for example missiles we don't even use anymore) and with healthcare reform, which accounts for a huge amount of the budget. It wouldn't hurt my feelings if he cut some of that 2.4 billion that we give Israel every year for military support.
Bush started 2 wars...geez, there is that chestnut. Congress started 2 wars.
Wrong. Congress has not declared war either in Afghan or Iraq. Both are military actions, ordered by the president. Congress only approved funding of the war.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_war_by_the_United_States
Yeah, Obama has extended the timeline in Afghan, but at least there IS a timeline as opposed to some never ending war. That means that at least there are goals in mind, on both sides.
Bringing peace to the region: It will take a really long time to gain true peace in the middle east; however, if we can get the Irael/Palestine conflict fixed as a 2-state solution, it would go a really, really go a long way as far as how the middle east views us. And no, I don't give a rat's butt about Israel. I think they are no better than Hamas or Hezbollah in that they have their own little terror network. The only difference between them and these other groups is that they've had the financial backing of the US, which makes for a very uneven playing ground.
Afghan did not bring the fight to us. Al-Q did. Afghan simply refused to give them up, and my guess is that they didn't really have a whole lot of choice in the matter. Tell me, if a radical group from the US decides to commit an act of terror in another country, should that country just start bombing us?
The Iraq war is simply a mess. We had absolutely no right whatsoever to go into a sovereign nation like that and occupy them. There were no WMDs, and there was no link to Al-Q.
Torture: It doesn't matter what the other side did. We do not have to respond in like manner. If we do, then we become no better than them. Point in case is the fact that we have lost credibility world wide because of this. And no, no plausible info came from torturing. Go down the board and check out the latest memo release.
It's important for other countries to "like" us and in particular to trust us. I don't think you realize just how dependent we are on other countries and visa versa. Beating people into submission only causes resentment. Listening to them and showing respect earns trust. If we are getting along with another country there is no need for that country to attack us. However, if we make demands of that country and try to "scare" them into some state of respect, then the first time we turn our backs, they will go for it.
Bush never held Israel to its agreement to stop settlements. Hmmm. Has anyone ever held Hamas to its agreement not to slam Israel with rockets on a daily basis or send suicide bombers through the checkpoints?
Actually neither side has been held accountable, and Obama has addressed this, both sides.
Obama's heritage is Hamas? That's just ridiculous.
I'm not thrilled about everything he has and/or hasn't done, but again, he still has over 3 years to go, and so far the good drastically outweighs the bad and is a HUGE improvement over what we had before.
"People don't die from second-hand........ sm
alcohol whatever?" What do you call drunk driving then? The victims die or are seriously injured as a result of someone else's intoxicated state. I would call that second-hand "whatever."
Before you jump right in the middle of my back, let me state that I don't drink, but I used to in the past. I also smoke, and I hate it but have not managed to quit for any length of time in the past 25 years. I have known people who have tried tobacco but have not become addicted to it, just as I know people who have tasted alcohol and decided it was not for them.
I agree that stronger laws need to be in place for both alcohol and tobacco as well as illicit drugs. I think that cleaning up cigarettes to remove tar and nicotine might be a good first step. Unfortunately, I don't see much way to clean up alcohol outside of prohibition, but we know how well that worked in the 1920s.
hand up from republicans..in your dreams
To the conservative who posted that democrats only give a hand out to the poor, disadvantaged and disabled and the republicans give a hand up..I asked below to state when ever has a republican given a positive hand up (not a hand up into a noose) for the poor, disadvantaged or disabled in America..Of course, the only answer I got was attack of democrats and me..Guess there has been never a time that conservatives have given a hand up to those unfortunate ones of America..your silence tells it all..
Votes counted by hand is the only way sm
by someone not getting money from the government. They were never able to call the state of New Hampshire on the news because their votes were all counted by hand. I am not sure if they still do it that way. Votefraud.org specializes on this issue, and there is lots of information there.
Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything.
—Communist tyrant and mass murderer Josef Stalin
If you want to just hand your paycheck to the govt.
Then by all means...support government funded healthcare! Nothing is free, and personally I would like the discretion on when and where to by my health ins. This country...or should I say it's people cannot afford healthcare for everyone. Look at Canada and look at the U.K. Their socialized healthcare stinks. People are dying waiting to get treatment. Besides, if we go to socialized healthcare then where are the Canadians and British going to come for quality health care like they are doing now? Do you know that if you have advanced stages of any diseases in these countries that the governments are starting to deny care to them? You don't get a choice. The government decides that you die! Pretty sad if you ask me.
"What's good enough for congress is good enough for me?"
Hardly....
I would like to shake the President's hand...
The sound of one hand clapping.....
It is really unfortunate that we cannot seem to dig this dialog out of the gutter long enough to actually examine the pros and cons of the real issues in this election, and that we spend such inordinate amounts of time resorting to repugnant repartee, revolving around these divisive personal attacks on our candidates, their wives and their various collective associations. Looks like we would rather dish dirt than consider, even for a single second, the value of our diverse experiences, perspectives and ideas; nor are we willing to extend any respect whatsoever as we attempt to define and mediate our differences, examine our common objectives and come up with fair and equitable compromises that reflect and represent to the greatest degree possible the very best we have to offer. Why is it that we cannot recognize how desperately we need to foster unity, seek consensus, create solutions, propose and implement policies? It’s dumb, and it’s truly sad. Is that who we really want to be?
Let’s see. What else could we be talking about? International issues, such as foreign policy, Homeland Security, war and peace, free trade, human rights, refugees, immigration, oil and energy. How about domestic issues like gun control, crime, drugs, civil rights, jobs, the environment. Then there are our pocketbooks, the budget and economy, government reform, election reform, tax reform, Social Security, welfare and poverty, technology, the infrastructure. Let us not forget the social issues, to include education, health care, abortion, families and children, corporations, principles and values.
Where have all the issues gone? Hellooooo…is anybody home?
I was only taught to put my hand over my heart for
.
This racism thing is getting out of hand
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics/AP/story/914106.html
So now if they do accept the provisions, then they are bashed because they opposed it.
But if they don't accept the provisions, then they are racist because of the poor black people in the community.
I guess the poor white people don't matter. Just the minorities. Because there is no such thing as a poor white person, right?
I mean really, darned if you do, darned if you don't!
And Pelosi had first hand knowlege of what was going on
And she did nothing. Now that it's coming back at her she pulls this "I had no idea" thing. Her "I had no idea this was going on" ranks right up there with....
"Read my lips"...
"There were WMO's in Iraq"...
"I did not sleep with that woman"...
If I wanted to see a vulgar hand gesture
I'd just merge onto the freeway in rush hour. Big whoop.
Your hand up is called indentured servitude.
it just got a lot of people killed in Louisiana. It's why we have third and fourth generation welfare families and inhumane lifestyles. You do not challenge people to do better, have better lives.You say, vote for me and I will give you more food stamps. Stay with me, and I will fund your abortions on the state and also pay to deliver your 8th child, so that you can remain in poverty and I can control you. THAT IS YOUR HAND UP. It's criminal. One day the black population will see what you have done. I pity you that day.
Well a hand up will not provide the people of New Orleans with sm
what they need in this time of crisis.
What are you smokin'? Do you think these people don't need emergency money now, they have lost everything.
Good grief. There are mannnny Americans who still live paycheck to paycheck and if the little they have is wiped out, they have nowhere to go. But some people don't see it that way. I call them the I got mine generation.
At age 60, I'll hand over the future of my children
They deserve at least that much, since they will end up bankrolling the deficit debt left behind by W and 90% for generations to come. We are leaving them a world WORSE off than the one we inherited from our parents for the first time in US history. My vote goes to O, skeletons and all.
And Nancy Palosi hand picked more
than 11 of her people to vote NO, people who owed her favors.
I have not been posting. Hand in splint with fingers...
immobilized. Hoping to get splint off next week, at which time I will be able to post again. Thanks for asking.
Of course you are, dear. Mohamar Ghadaffi on the other hand
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