Well, here's a liberal columnist at the Chicago Tribune defining FISA
Posted By: rr on 2005-12-21
In Reply to: Clinton & Carter DID NOT ORDER any such things. - American Woman
again, and the Chicago Tribune is hardly a conservative paper...and note what Clinton's deputy Atty General Jamie Gorelick said
*****
The passage of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act in 1978 did not alter the constitutional situation. That law created the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court that can authorize surveillance directed at an agent of a foreign power, which includes a foreign terrorist group. Thus, Congress put its weight behind the constitutionality of such surveillance in compliance with the law's procedures.
But as the 2002 Court of Review noted, if the president has inherent authority to conduct warrantless searches, FISA could not encroach on the president's constitutional power.
Every president since FISA's passage has asserted that he retained inherent power to go beyond the act's terms. Under President Clinton, deputy Atty. Gen. Jamie Gorelick testified that the Department of Justice believes, and the case law supports, that the president has inherent authority to conduct warrantless physical searches for foreign intelligence purposes.
FISA contains a provision making it illegal to engage in electronic surveillance under color of law except as authorized by statute. The term electronic surveillance is defined to exclude interception outside the U.S., as done by the NSA, unless there is interception of a communication sent by or intended to be received by a particular, known United States person (a U.S. citizen or permanent resident) and the communication is intercepted by intentionally targeting that United States person. The cryptic descriptions of the NSA program leave unclear whether it involves targeting of identified U.S. citizens. If the surveillance is based upon other kinds of evidence, it would fall outside what a FISA court could authorize and also outside the act's prohibition on electronic surveillance.
*****
So the writer of the article determined, as backed up by Dep. Atty. General, Jamie Gorelick that FISA really left an open loophole, and the ultimate decision on how far to persue a particular person lies with the president.
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YIKES! If you would not call Barry from Chicago a far liberal....
then please, PLEASE, WHO do you think IS a far liberal???
Defining marriage is not a theocracy
It's just common sense since two people of the common sex cannot procreate.
...and no I don't advocate a theocracy.
A search warrant under FISA prior to 9/11
As you can see from the article cited below, Holder did not have that evidence. He was not the only person responsible for "not allowing" the laptop contents search. Seems there was a problem with intelligence sharing between the US and France. His decision was also defended by the FBI director. Unless being able to predict the future is a qualification for the AG, it seems that you could find a better reason to be losing sleep.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/05/08/60II/main508362.shtml
columnist noted
Gore had his presidency taken away by the Repub-stacked Supreme Court and went on to win a Nobel Peace Prize. GW was handed the presidency and started a disastrous, pointless war. Keep on keepin' on, my fellow Dems. Our time is just over the horizon. Maybe this time the country will appreciate the wisdom of the Clinton presidency(ies).
Kathleen Parker is a columnist, a big
time conservative columnist, I believe. She reashes a lot of people as I think her column is syndicated. She also frequently makes appearances on O'Reilly's show. A lot of people do listen to her. She is not some democrat flying off. She was in support of Palin until recent days it seems.
The so called liberal media is not so liberal anymore...sm
Case and point Fox News is the #1 media outlet via ratings and hardhitting conservative anchors, pundits, and journalists. Other than Hardball, I don't know of another mainstream show that puts the liberal point of view out there and checks this administration and their policies.
liberal hit piece by a liberal deep thinker....
x
chicago offered help
Chicago offered help as early as last SUNDAY...Bush
says No Thanks
Daley 'shocked' as feds reject aid
September 3, 2005
BY STEPHANIE ZIMMERMANN AND SCOTT FORNEK Staff
Reporters
A visibly angry Mayor Daley said the city had offered
emergency, medical and technical help to the federal
government as early as Sunday to assist people in the
areas stricken by Hurricane Katrina, but as of Friday,
the only things the feds said they wanted was a single
tank truck.
That truck, which the Federal Emergency Management
Agency requested to support an Illinois-based medical
team, was en route Friday.
We are ready to provide more help than they have
requested. We are just waiting for their call, said
Daley, adding that he was shocked that no one seemed
to want the help.
Meanwhile, U.S. Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) said he
would call for congressional hearings into the federal
government's preparations and response.
The response was achingly slow, and that, I think, is
a view shared by Democrats, Republicans, wealthy and
poor, black and white, the freshman senator said. I
have not met anybody who has watched this crisis
evolve over the last several days who is not just
furious at how poorly prepared we appeared to be.
Response 'baffling'
The South Side Democrat called FEMA's slow response
baffling.
I don't understand how you could have a situation
where you've got several days' notice of an enormous
hurricane building in the Gulf Coast, you know that
New Orleans is 6 feet below sea level. ... The notion
that you don't have good plans in place just does not
make sense, Obama said.
Obama said he expects his counterparts in Louisiana,
Mississippi or Alabama will call for congressional
hearings, but he is ready if they do not. It's
heartbreaking and infuriating and, I think, is
embarrassing to the American people.''
Daley said the city offered 36 members of the
firefighters' technical rescue teams, eight emergency
medical technicians, search-and-rescue equipment, more
than 100 police officers as well as police vehicles
and two boats, 29 clinical and 117 non-clinical health
workers, a mobile clinic and eight trained personnel,
140 Streets and Sanitation workers and 29 trucks, plus
other supplies. City personnel are willing to operate
self-sufficiently and would not depend on local
authorities for food, water, shelter and other
supplies, he said.
Flanked at a Friday press conference by a who's who
from city government, religious organizations and
business, the mayor also announced formation of the
Chicago Helps Fund for storm victims.
I'm calling upon every resident of Chicago to donate
what they can afford, whether it's 50 cents or 50
dollars, the mayor said.
People can make tax-deductible cash or check donations
at any of Bank One's 330 Chicago area branches or by
check at Chicago Helps, c/o Bank One, 38891 Eagle Way,
Chicago 60678-1388. A phone line to take credit card
donations will be set up.
Churches were urged to take up collections this
Sunday, and firefighters are planning to collect at
major intersections this weekend.
In addition, donations will be taken at this weekend's
Jazz Fest in Grant Park, and $2 of every ticket
purchased through Ticketmaster for the Chicago Classic
football game at Soldier Field today will go to
hurricane relief. The Shedd Aquarium announced it will
donate $1 from every ticket sold this holiday weekend
to relief efforts and has set up donation stations
at the aquarium.
Homeless shelters enlisted
By midday Friday, Inner Voice, a private agency that
runs 27 homeless shelters for the city, had rounded up
space in unused facilities for about 2,000 storm
refugees, should they need it, said president Brady
Harden.
Ed Shurna, executive director of the Chicago Coalition
for the Homeless, suggested the city tap recently
vacated units at Cabrini-Green and Lathrop Homes that
were slated for demolition but still have heat and
electricity available.
Daley reiterated that students from stricken areas are
welcome to enroll in the Chicago Public Schools and in
the City Colleges. Cardinal Francis George on Friday
asked that Catholic schools in the archdiocese waive
tuition for displaced children.
More than 400 students have applied to Loyola
University Chicago, most coming from its sister Jesuit
school, Loyola University New Orleans. Half had been
admitted as of late afternoon Friday. Spokeswoman
Maeve Kiley said the school will honor their tuition
that they already paid.''
University of Illinois campuses in Urbana-Champaign
and Chicago have admitted more than 100 students,
including two foreign students who had Fulbright
scholarships to attend Tulane.
Northeastern said it would waive tuition and fees for
Illinois residents who already paid another school,
and would grant in-state tuition to out-of-state
students. Northwestern plans to let students pay what
they would have at their original school and forward
the money to that school.
Contributing: Andrew Herrmann, Dave Newbart
Why do any of you think Obama and his Chicago
nm
Who knows with Chicago politics.........sm
I had heard that the Rev. Jesse Jackson was interested in Obama's seat but I don't know if he was tied up in this particular fiasco or not.
I would imagine Obama might have something else for Ms. Jarr to do in his administration. Time will tell on that.
Chicago politics
It's no secret how corrupt Chicago politics are (& Illinois as a whole). They have the highest tax in the nation--10.25%! My sister lives there, and earns an excellent salary, yet gets taxed to death. Chicago is also quite fond of nepotism as well. We're talking dead voters and also taxes for all kinds of environmental stuff. Let us now forget the state tax as well.
Totally militant politics!
Chicago is no different that any other big city...sm
New York, Miami, LA and many others.
chicago rally
Maybe Oprah will show up.
Chicago crooks
right after the major Texas crooks.
She can drop the messiah off in Chicago along the way...
//
Here's hoping Chicago workers' sit-in and
good things to come. As Bank of America acquires Merrill-Lynch (whose CEO has the utter gall to request a $10 million bonus pay-out after the ML sell-out) they are refusing credit to Republic Windows and Doors out of Chicago after receiving $15 billion in TARP funds. The workers are fighting back to recover the pay and benefits they have already earned and their governor is backing them up. Now that's what I'm talkin' about !
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aw5QzWC86Vl8&refer=home
Change - Chicago Style
This is an e-mail my uncle, who lives in Illinois, sent.
Subject: Chicago
CHANGE - CHICAGO STYLE
Body count.
In the last six months 292 killed (murdered) in Chicago ,
221 killed in Iraq
The leadership in Illinois ....all Democrats.
Sens. Barack Obama & D*ick Durbin
Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr.
Gov. Rod Blogojevich
House leader Mike Madigan
Atty. Gen. Lisa Madigan (daughter of Mike)
Mayor Richard M. Daley (son of former Mayor Richard J.
Daley).....
Chicago is a combat zone. Of course they're all blaming each
other.
Can't blame Republicans; there aren't any!
(Look them up if you want).
State pension fund $44 Billion in debt, worst in country.
Cook Co unty ( Chicago ) sales tax 10.25% highest in country.
Chicago school system, one of the worst in country.
This is the political culture that Obama comes from in
Illinois .
And he's gonna 'fix' Washington politics?
The mayor of Chicago also spoke this...sm
morning explaining the need for city employee layoffs.
Am more concerned about ALL the Chicago crooks!
nm
They should probably hurry before Barry from Chicago...
gets his national "security" police force going....
Obama's Chicago thugs, one after another, proves
nm
what possible advange to the Chicago political machine
Where's the logic in this warning?
Chicago Annenberg Challenge Shutdown...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/23/AR2008102302081.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
If you are fine with the Chicago political machine...
that explains it. His entrenchment with them and his considering Richard Daley among his mentors tells me all I need to know about Rahm Emanuel, and it also tells me that Obama was being less than truthful about his Chicago connections and trying to distance himself from the very people he is now bringing into his inner circle.
Does that help explain my concern?
And Chicago Citizen of the Year in 1997
1. Was Ayers the leader of a terrorist group?
The FBI labeled the Weather Underground "a domestic terrorist group" whose members took credit for bombings of the U.S. Capitol, Pentagon and other government buildings. The bombings were designed to cause property damage, not hurt people. Ayers never has been accused of killing anybody.
But three Weather Underground members accidentally killed themselves while making bombs in New York City in 1970. In 1981, two police officers and a security guard were killed when other members of the group committed an armed robbery.
2. How long was Ayers "underground"?
Ayers and his wife, Weather Underground member Bernardine Dohrn, were on the lam 10 years before surrendering in 1980.
3. Were they ever convicted of "terrorism" charges?
No. Ayers faced federal riot and bombing-conspiracy charges, but those charges were dropped because of illegal wiretaps, break-ins and mail interceptions by authorities. Dohrn served less than a year behind bars for non-bombing activities tied to the group.
4. How are Ayers and Dohrn viewed now?
At least before this campaign, they were mainly seen as respected college professors. After getting his doctorate in education at Columbia University, Ayers joined the University of Illinois, where he gained a national reputation pushing innovative -- some say controversial -- approaches to educating at-risk youth. Dohrn has a national reputation for pushing reforms of the juvenile justice system. Ayers has published 15 books. He sits on civic boards with Mayor Daley, who in 1997 awarded Ayers the city's "Citizen of the Year" award. Ayers and Dohrn live in Hyde Park, not far from the Obamas.
5. So how well do Ayers and Obama know each other?
Ayers and Obama served on separate boards associated with the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, an education-reform group that Obama began chairing in March 1995 and continued to work with through 2000. Ayers served on the Chicago School Reform Collaborative, which made recommendations to the board on grant awards during those years. Ayers and Obama occasionally would see each other in those roles.
Also, Ayers served alongside Obama between December 1999 and December 2002 on the board of the not-for-profit Woods Fund of Chicago. That board met four times a year, and members would see each other at dinners the group hosted.
The RNC's statement that "Obama's first campaign was launched at a gathering at Mr. Ayers' home" stems from a 1995 "meet-and-greet" coffee that Ayers and Dohrn held for Obama at their home when Obama was making his first run for the Illinois Senate. Obama's presidential campaign has described the event as an opportunity for Ayers and Dohrn to introduce Obama to their neighbors.
In 2001, Ayers gave $200 to Obama's campaign. A year ago, the two met walking through the neighborhood where they both live.
6. How does Ayers respond to the Republicans' charges?
He doesn't. He has declined to comment to the Sun-Times or any other media since Sen. Hillary Clinton first raised him as a potential problem for Obama in April during the Democratic primary.
7. What does Obama say about Ayers?
During a primary debate, Obama underplayed his relationship with Ayers: "This is a guy who lives in my neighborhood, who's a professor of English in Chicago, who I know, and who I have not received some official endorsement from," Obama said. "He's not somebody who I exchange ideas from on a regular basis. The notion that somehow, as a consequence of me knowing somebody who engaged in detestable acts 40 years ago when I was 8 years old somehow reflects on me and my values, doesn't make much sense."
8. Is it fair for McCain to criticize Obama on this issue?
Factcheck.org has this take: "Voters may differ in how they see Ayers, or how they see Obama's interactions with him. We're making no judgment calls on those matters. What we object to are the McCain-Palin campaign's attempts to sway voters -- in ads and on the stump -- with false and misleading statements about the relationship, which was never very close. And Ayers is more than a former 'terrorist,' he's also a well-known figure in the field of education."
9. Has Ayers ever apologized for what he did with the Weather Underground?
Not exactly. In 2001, Ayers told the Sun-Times he regretted that "people were hurt, that three of my dear friends were killed, that we were stupid, immature, intolerant and unwise. I regret that I hurt people's feelings." He did not regret "throwing myself as wholeheartedly as I could figure out into opposition to war and to the system of racial injustice."
A review of Ayers' memoir Fugitive Days that appeared in the New York Times on Sept. 11, 2001, quoted Ayers saying, "I don't regret setting bombs. I feel we didn't do enough." Three days after the terrorist attacks, Ayers clarified: "My memoir is, from start to finish, a condemnation of terrorism . . ."
10. Are all former alleged terrorists/radicals shunned?
No. Former IRA bomber Gerry Adams is welcomed at the White House as a peacemaker. Former PLO leader Yasser Arafat was too. Former Students for a Democratic Society member and Ayers friend Tom Hayden was elected to the California State Assembly. Former Black Panther Bobby Rush is a congressman representing Chicago, as is former Puerto Rican independence activist Luis Gutierrez.
Obama goes sandwich shopping in Chicago
//
No joke! And no, I doubt they have any friends in Chicago, either.
But apparently they have some friends in Detroit. What I meant by my post was to get a little more background into some of these people that are begging for money - our money - without any kind of strings attached. We didn't really get to do that with the banking thing - happend too fast - and now look where that got us? Where is it going to end? I joke with my husband that he should start his trek to DC to get his bail-out because ever since the real estate business went to the crapper, his business is hurting - he does web pages and virtual tours for realtors. Why not? Everyone else is lining up, may as well get there early!
Obama comes from the group of Chicago crooks.
nm
Crooks? No, look at Chicago and Obama's friends.
nm
That's why Osamabama moved to Chicago insteady of staying in NY.
nm
GOP blanket bombs on Chicago's dem civic leaders
Right-wing rants that cite email sources are suspect at best. Google any one heading included in yesterday's post and discover links to the "common sense" of the Getting' After Left show and a barrage of right-wing blogs. Surprise, surprise.
BODY COUNT
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_cities_by_crime_rate
Despite being the 3rd largest US city, Chicago's murder rate ranks 20th behind much less populous cities Baltimore MD, Newark NJ, St. Louis MO, Oakland CA, Cincinnati OH, Buffalo NY, Kansas City MO, Miami FL, Pittsburg PA, and Cleveland OH. Guess who is ranked #21 (same general category)? That would be McC's hometown of Phoenix Arizona. Chicago has experienced an overall decline in crime since the 1990s.
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/
You seem to be equating Iraq fatalities to murder. I agree. On that Iraq body count figure, since you are talking civilians in Chicago, it is only fair to include those folks in your first six months of 2008 figure. In 2008, the average daily violent occupation-related loss of life via suicide attacks, vehicle bombs, gunfire and executions is 27 x 182.5 days in first six months = 4,927 + you 221 = 5148. While we are at it, may as well throw out that total civilian body count in Iraq, the very most conservative documented count being 88,373, or World Trade Center x30.
"COMBAT ZONE"
Naturally, no reliable data is available on this claim, it being a subjective pronouncement that seeks to pontificate.
STATE PENSION FUND
Here we see the smear leap from the Chicago to the state level...an apples to oranges, smoke and mirrors maneuver the GOP attack machine thought they might slip by unattentive readers. OK. Let's go there. As recently as February of this year, we find the following: http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/stories/2008/02/25/daily29.html
Center on Budget and Policy and Priorities: McCain's red state: Arizona Budget Deficit Worst in the Country. Follow link for all the fascinating details.
http://www.cbpp.org/1-15-08sfp.htm Info updated 08/05/08
For starters, state budget deficits are ranked in terms of shortfall percentages.
In the US, 29 states face budget shortfalls totaling 48 billion in 2009. Notice how similar this 29-state total is to the amount in the GOP smear that claimed a $44 BILLION dollar deficit IL pension plan funds. Arizona's shortfall percentage = 17.8%, now in second place behind the nations most populous state, California. Illinois' shortfall percentage = 6.6%, making AZ's budget deficit nearly 3 times that of IL. So, if we hold dems (and by pub logic, O) responsible for Chicago, then who, pray tell is responsible for Arizona, the political culture from which JM comes from?
COUNTY SALES TAX
To suggest that any party's local (especially municipal or county) tax schemes would be reproduced on a national level is downright ridiculous. Tax structures are entirely different and wildly varied from state to state. Speaking of states, I came across this link http://www.fairtaxation.org/facts/sales_tax_rank.php which shows the Arizona sales tax rate ranks higher (#10) at 7.8% than Illinois at 7.6%.
CHICAGO SCHOOLS WORST IN NATION
I bit hard to address this second subjective pronouncement that seeks to pontificate. In terms of WHAT exactly is it the worst? They are certainly not an uneducated bunch of folks:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=a80Zfbu_.k4g&refer=us University of Chicago has produced 82 Nobel prize winners and 10 Nobel Prize winners in economics, more than any university in the US. The John Bates Clark Medal, bestowed every two years, recognizes the nation's most outstanding economist under 40. U of Chicago has produced more than any other US institution, 6 out of the 31 recipients. Seems like those Chicago economists are sort of, well....exceptional.
I really could go on and on about Chicago's booming economy but I am out of time here. Maybe later then.
Chicago Street Scene....sounds a little scary sm
http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/11/the_street_scen.html
LOL I doubt Bush/Cheney have many friends in Chicago
most of them seem to be on Wall Street. Hopefully the old Chicago "families" won't have to tap the taxpayers.
Chicago Tea Party CNN's Susan Roesgen missed. sm
According to CNN, this is not family viewing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpeScv6EPgQ
Reply to phoney outrage over Chicago politics is on message.
from which so many repugs on this board suffer and the silence they maintain on W's reign of terror and corruption.
I am neither liberal nor the other.
I am a human being on this planet tired of hearing you whine.
hardly. I am on the liberal
board posting for fellow liberals. I am unconcerned about the reactions elicited from posters on the wrong site for their views.
No one said anything about a liberal rag....
could you post a link? Thanks.
JFK was NOT liberal
Yes, he was a Dem, but nothing even like the so-called centrists. But Obama--we're talking as far left las one can go! Be careful what you wish for! His #1 liberal rating in the Senate should be enough. Don't forget Biden is #3, with Ted Kennedy #2.
Those of you who make, say, double my salary, then you can give half of it to me. Fear not, Obama will make sure that happens. For all the bi%ching on this board about lost wages, that should be reason enough to NOT vote for the man who was a Senator only150 days or something like that. Community agitator is another subject, and not a pretty one, either.
PBS has gone very liberal..............
Any federal funding should not be allowed with one-sided reporting. LIBERAL IDIOTS!
If they cannot have real interviews with REAL people, don't use my money to fund lame brain idiots!
Oh...and the liberal
Obama butt kissing media doesn't spin things at all. Oh please! Give me a break.
Shall we not forget that Immelt who head GE also runs NBC and he told them no Obama bashing. I'm sure you are getting fair and balanced news from them, huh?
I am not a liberal..........nm
nm
a far-liberal would probably be someone
who lives in the woods, is homosexual/lesbian, who is pro-life, marries a same-sex person, etc.....all in the same person.
Liberal values?
You asked about the values of liberals, so here goes ... at least from this liberal's perspective. I value people's inherent ability to make decisions about their own lives, barring medical issues preventing same (i.e., mental incapacity). I live by the Golden Rule. I value the choice for people to practice whichever faith they choose ... or none at all ... and really mean it! I accept people and their differences from the "norm". I believe 2 consenting adults with the required mental capacity should be allowed to marry - with no litmus test. And I sure don't care what people do in their own bedrooms as long as it is between consenting adults. Most importantly, I value the principles set forth by the Constitution of the United States since, first and foremost, I am an American.
That about sums it up. I hope it helps!
Liberal, my tailfeathers...
...I can't even watch MSNBC anymore - if that's what conservatives think is "liberal" TV then the definition of "liberal" must be that they don't entirely siphon their news out of Scotty McClellan's shorts. And they have Olberman.
I admire your fortitude MT ME - I had to turn off my TV about a year ago. I keep up with Faux News on the Newshounds website but that's as close as I can stand to get, lol. I am hoping hard for the early successful launch of Independent World Television (no corporate funding or advertising and it'll be coming from Canada)but that's a ways off. I totally miss 24-hour NEWS like CNN was when it first started. Thank God for blogs!
get off the liberal board
Why must you conservatives continue to post here? We dont want you or your ideology posted here..Bush is to fault, for gosh sakes, he even admitted it..in his pea brain he kind of realizes he was wrong in his response..
Gt, I know and like and get along with many liberals.. You are not a liberal,
x
Same old liberal blather...
we're for the little guy... blah blah blah. The big wig Democrats don't a crap about the little guy, only his vote. If the woes of the lower class working stiffs could be fixed, they'd have been fixed already. A Democrat has been in office along enough in the last 40 years to do that, but it never gets done. Not in 8 yrs of Clinton, or anybody before him. You know why? Because the plight of the poor isn't the government's fault. It's not the rich man's fault either. But nobody wants to say what the problem is for fear of hurting somebody's feelings. Or better yet, if they problem were actually fixed, who would the Democrats get to vote for them? They NEED there to be racism, and poverty, and inequality (imagined or real). It's really quite sad.
get off the liberal board
Can you not read English? Get off the liberal board, fool..bye bye..get out of here..
Some humor for my liberal
http://folksongsofthefarrightwing.cf.huffingtonpost.com/
Neither liberal or any other persusian here. TI
I won't apologize in this instance. Antisemites always rub me the wrong way. Shal-alu Shalom Yerushalim
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