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Wow. List growing by the minute.

Posted By: Chris Buckley, son of William fatwahed....sm on 2008-10-14
In Reply to: If McCain campaign strategy is so effective, - why then are we hearing....sm

by hate mail after daring to have his own opinion and is leaving the National Review, the magazine founded by his dad. So much for family tradition.


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This is growing tiresome....

Your hatred of liberals is causing you to cover your eyes and ears and pretend nothing is wrong, or could possibly be wrong with our government.  There is a growing majority who do not believe as you do (or disbelieve as you do).


If you find gt's posts so virulent and hateful why do you come on the liberal board?  The board posts obviously upset you.  And with your repeated personal attacks on the posters you are truly providing a negative advertisement for your belief system.  You need to think about that.


I always remember what my mom and dad taught me growing up
Treat others how you want to be treated. Don't call people names if you wouldn't want to be called names. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and if you don't like what is being said (this pertained more to racial slurs in public when they would look at me and call me a name) keep walking and soon you will not hear them talk anymore.

Hope the board will now come back to what it is meant for. You have a good night and don't let people get to you. You are a valuable person with valuable ideas and thoughts and that's what makes our country a wonderful place.
They are not scientific, but do show a growing trend.sm
The Rocky Mountain News is a mainstream paper in a conservative state. All everyone wants is for this to be properly investigated, by independent investigators. The 911 Commission pretty much admitted the first one was a whitewash.
I ate my fair share of soup growing up........sm
We lived on a farm and my dad grew a big garden every year....peas, corn, potatoes, tomatoes, butter beans, onions....and when the first pickings of the garden came in, mom would make a pot of vegetable soup with a little of all the different vegetables....an ear of corn, a few tomatoes, an onion, a few peas and a few butter beans. Best soup I ever ate and I wish I could have some now. Mom would always can and freeze a lot of vegetables to last us through the winter and sometimes a pot of peas and a pan of cornbread was all we had for supper. But it sho was good eatin'!
Actually, the black middle class is the fasted growing population, but
x
Makes you wonder, with technology growing faster than the human mind...sm

something is bound to crash!  I think my kids are probably responsible for about half of those text messages, thank goodness for unlimited!! 


Too bad we can't develop the technology to come up with a decent government! 


Just think about that for a minute...
Think what that would mean to Americans. Death penality if you do not follow one religion. Hands cut off for stealing. Stoned to death for adultery. Stoned to death or worse for homosexuality. No TV other than state TV. No western music. No abortions. No living together outside marriage. Girls killed by their own families for premarital sex. No divorce. Women in total subjection in a society totally dominated by males. Some of the practices and lifestyles this country has come to accept in the name freedom, whether good or bad, gone in a heartbeat. The scary thing is that a good part of this country will go on thinking that can't happen here...and unfortunately that may be the death knell of America as we know it. I shudder to think. All Christians no matter what denomination need to hit their knees and pray hard that that does not happen to our country, and we need to support our country's efforts in Iraq and support the men and women who are there trying to keep just this thing from happening. We are losing the will to fight, and in so doing are rolling onto our backs to expose our belly to the wolves. Sorry to be so graphic, but that is about what it amounts to. Some things ARE worth fighting for. God bless us all!
don't believe it for a minute

This man has changed his mind (that's a nice way of saying he lies) as much as Biden did in the debate last PM.  Keep in mind that literally anything that is "gov't-sponsored" is actually YOU sponsored.  You take home less money (less than you do now, that's for sure), you hand over even more control to "the gov't," etc.


If nothing else, look how everything "the gov't" does gets more screwed up every time "they" touch it.  The bailout they just signed had thousands of pages added to it.  That's the name of that tune.  Hope this helps. 


Incidentally, I don't give anyone a free pass.  That's something I've never understood.


Let us for a minute consider this

in a different way.


Let us say that your son or daughter are in school.  They are very good students.  They do their homework, study, and get good grades.  In fact, they get an A.  However, another little girl or boy didn't do so well in class.  Instead...they got a D.  Now an A is above average and a D is below average as I'm sure all of you aware of.  So the A student can afford to lose part of their grade right because they are above average.  So let us say that we take a bit of the A grade to up the unfortunate child who received a D so that way they get a C.  That would make the unfortunate child have an average grade.  Now the child earning the A but having it taken away is very upset.  They worked so hard for that A but because others felt she could afford to give up part of her A so another child could bring a below average grade up to an average grade would make the whole school a happy place because everyone would be average.  No one would be below average.  But the A student gets very down and stops trying because what is the point.  The A they earned will be taken away any way.  The D student continues to get below average grades because....hey...no big deal...teacher will just take it from an A student and I'll be average.  No harm done except now the A student is getting lower grades because their hard work has been penalized and they have stopped trying.


If this were happening in our school systems each and every one of us would have an absolute fit but that is exactly what Barrack Obama is wanting to do to us.  Instead he is doing it with our hard-earned money. 


Think about this for a minute s/m
Think anchor babies............they are natural born babies aren't they?  You want to see a child of  ILLEGAL ALIEN parents become president?  That would be a fine example of our Constitution since it would give them every right to run for the presidency.  Well, wake up, that is very likely to happen!
Let's look at this a minute

First, $60,000 per year is not exactly in the wealthy category but even in this day it is or should be enough to pay for the necessities with some money left over.


Do I pay for everything with cash?  You betcha!  We have done so for years while we scrimped and saved to pay off the mortgage, get the cars paid off, etc.  Then that money instead of going into finer living went into savings.  We still live frugally because we fully expect that we will have to help our kids who are not yet old enough to have followed our advice...I might add that of 4 only 1 (Joe the real life plumber) has the desire to follow in our footsteps.  People these days want bigger houses, newer cars, more "stuff" to keep up with the Jones and have kept buying what they can't afford...when their credit runs out then what?  Bankruptcy?  Bush pretty well took that option off the table.  I fully expect debtor's prison to be the next thing on the agenda.


Use your head.  If the middle class does well everyone does well.  Where's the middle class now?  But the greed is still there and that includes greedy people as well as greedy big business.


As for the rebates.....I was NOT in favor of the rebates and said they would do no good........they didn't.  Mine went into the mattress and I'd gladly give it back if it would help this economy.  I imagine the majority of people threw money at the credit card bill collectors hoping to stave them off another day or so.  So who benefited from that?


 


This is getting better every minute, MT. You claim to know who's AGAINST you when you can't

even figure out who's WITH you, as evidenced by the little hissy fit above between you and another CON!!!


Please keep posting.  You're getting whackier with each post and revealing yourself for the nut case you truly are!!!


Plus, I'm intrigued by all the different voices in your head who surface at different times.  I guess tonight TM is doing the talking, and TM seems to be even more rude and angry and hateful than you usually are.


Why so angry, MT?  Roberts was confirmed today.  Why aren't you happy?  Or do you just have a terminal case of chronic bitterness, no matter what? Have you ever been nice to ANYONE?


PLEASE keep posting.  You're quite entertaining, even if in a pathetic sort of way.


wait a minute there
if you are wealthy and repub, drug addiction is an ILLNESS.  If you are middle class or poor and perhaps a person of color, it is CRIME.  Get your facts straight.
Not me for a minute!!! Foolish old man. nm
x
There's one born every minute.
You seem to have bought the Dem's propaganda hook, line and sinker. What a sucker.

There is none so blind as he who will not see.
i was lost for a minute. thank you
x
I don't believe this story for one minute!
The "B" carved in this young lady's cheek is more like scratch, and it is backwards. Have you ever looked at writing in a mirror? It's backwards! This young lady may have been mugged, but she scratched the "B" in her cheek all by herself. She is also a college Republican field representative, which makes this story even more fishy and explains her motive for doing this. Talk about stooping low...this is as low as it gets!
Oh now, wait a minute
Isn't it the dems that hate rich old white folks. But, of course, you can't hate rich old black folks, right?

What a hypocrit!
So did anyone watch the 30-minute

Just think of what he spent on that.  That could be your hard-earned dollars at work in his big spending.  2 million bucks per station.  For 30 minutes of the same old stuff. 


Yeah, he's going to cut your taxes after he reverses Bush's tax cuts.  You will end up paying more than you do now, that is for sure. 


I wonder where he was sitting in the ad?  It looked like it could have been.....the Oval Office....


 


One minute inside, the next outside
My personal opinion is abortion would not be taking a life IF it could be done when it is still just cells (and not organs, limbs, and the like). The problem would be to catch it that quickly.

My thought for those who think it the baby is not "alive" until it is born ... well a couple minutes before it is born, it is still the same baby ... just in a different place. You are still just as alive when you are inside your house as when you are out in public. Same thing.
Wait a minute!!!!
So now it's unpatriotic to bash the president? Seriously?
Wait a minute now
I have always been a Republican, but I have to say I am very disappointed by what I see.  The news is getting worse and worse everyday because we have 24/7 news!  Everyone under the sun has a 1 hour news show where they have to talk about something and the economy is what they focus on.  I never see any good news anymore.  It seems they are more worried about what Fox is saying and Fox is worried about what so-and-so said on another station.  A bunch of little boys trying to see who has the bigger penis (sorry, but true).  So it is an all out slamming war.  I always thought Republicans/Conservatives were patriotic - oh not so now!!  They are the ones throwing the tantrum and being negative about EVERYTHING!   They aren't supporting the president or who is in charge.   Where is the hope?  Where is the proud American attitude?  The dems won, it's their turn, stop listening to the "doom" messages and wait to see what happens.  GEEZ!   Like I said, I am a Repubican, and I will accept this plan for the economy and I will support my president.  Just because most of the plans don't improve my life, doesn't mean they don't improve the life of someone else who deserves it and our country.  Call me crazy, but I still believe in supporting my country no matter what because, well, I like living here.  Talk about what you believe in and disagree with, but quit saying we are going down the drain.  That's being a little dramatic! 
wait one minute
I do not believe homosexuality to be a "disability." don't go twisting my words. that is not what I said and you know it.
Now wait a minute
You cannot lump all republicans in with one moron like that. You're stereotyping.

Some of our government's biggest problems is that the Democrats have become liberals (our last true Dem was Kennedy) and the Republican party seems to have forgotten what it is supposed to stand for. Reagan, IMO, was our last true Republican prez. The president should be a highly respected position and the media should not be asking questions like "do you wear boxers or briefs?" Thanks to that, I have images of Clinton in his underwear and it makes me want to sear out my corneas.

Our country has lost a lot of its values. There's no excuse for what that woman did and it was especially stupid for her to E-mail it ("Oh, lookey at the stupid thing I just did") but please don't lump us all together.

My only biased bones in my body are toward the terrorists who have attacked our country. And even with that, I pray to God to help me, because I don't want to dislike anyone.
Wow....whew. The coldness of that hit me for a minute....

Okay, I get it.  The wholesale slaughter of babies does not bother you.  You have no care for them whatsoever.  Better they are sliced and diced than to add to the population problem.  What if some of them were serial killers?  Sheesh.  What if some of the dead Iraqis were going to be terrorists?  Good grief!


Talk about oversimplification.  Are you saying that every war that has been fought was for naught and should not have been fought?  Is that your stand?  Or is it just Iraq you are concerned about?  I have asked numerous times and you have never answered.  Should we never for any reason go to war? 


Personally I think Roe vs Wade SHOULD be overturned, because it is unconstitutional on its face.  It was enacted by activist judges overturning a state law ad taking it nationwide, which they have no right to do.  Only Congress at state or local level can enact law.  For that reason alone it should be overturned.   Then, if individual states want to change/stop/whatever abortion law they should be able to do it.  We are talking about killing of human beings here.  You can shoot someone in your house who is a danger to you in some states and face jail time for it...yet we slice and dice innocent babies in the womb who are defenseless and say no harm, no foul?  How contradictory is that may I ask?  And when, oh when, can we just ask people to show more responsibility?  With all the birth control methods there are available, we should not be seeing half a million abortions a year that are second, third, and fourth abortions.  That is just nuts.  And, though it probably does not matter a hoot to you, my work is done with women who find themselves in a situation where a choice has to be made, and work with organizations who offer a different choice.   I would like to change minds because that is where the true answer is.


All that being said, my active work is not going toward overturning Roe v Wade, though it should be for the reasons stated above.  Judges need to be reined in.  At least then if people are going to condone abortion (pro choice) then let them go to the polls and put their vote where their mouth is, so that we know the true will of the people.  If, as you say, over half the country does agree that abortion should be legal, that thought should not scare you and I don't know why it does.  And if abortion remained the law of the land, then I would continue the work I am doing, and that is trying to change minds and hearts, and give women in that situation a choice different from abortion.  Because I do believe in following the law of the land.  Hence, no picketing of abortion clinics, no bombings, no shooting doctors, no demonizing women in that situation.  I want to offer a different choice, to give them time to think about what they are doing and the long-reaching effects.  And I see nothing wrong with that.  If a woman decides to go ahead with an abortion, she is certainly able to do so and receives no condemnation from us.  It saddens us, of course.  But the women/girls we work with are not sent away with ridicule and condemnation and if they return later with regret they are welcomed and counseled.  And we see a fair amount of those as well.  And, wonderfully, we are beginning to see more women making a choice for life, whether keeping the child herself or choosing adoption.  I realize on the national level it is a tiny, tiny drop in the bucket...but one life saved, to me, is worth it.  I cannot concentrate on the many who are lost, or I would never get anything done.  I have to concentrate on the ones saved.


The real purpose of an abortion law is to encourage responsibility, because obviously something is haywire when half a million abortions a year are repeat abortions.  If that is not using abortion as birth control, kindly tell me what is.


And as a final note....the June Cleaver thing is a really old chestnut.  You can't tell me that 1.2 million women a year would turn into horrible mothers and the child would be better off dead than alive with their mothers.  There are far more success stories than not, and there are many, many families looking to adopt newborns.    There are many stories of girls/women who make that hard choice, and instead of the their lives being ruined, the child is the impetus for change in their lives.  The good stories far outweigh the bad.  And like I said...I am a glass half full kind of person.  If we can save even a portion of those 1.2 million lives, then I believe the efforts are worth it.  I certainly cannot just stand by and act like it does not matter to me.  Because it does.


We are never going to agree on this subject.  You can't understand why I would want to save babies and still think defending this country is okay, and I can't understand how you feel such empathy for casualties of war and feel none for aborted babies.  I certainly feel empathy for casualties of war.  However, I feel that war is sometimes necessary.  I have no trouble with that decision.  And I cannot equate the two...abortion and war.  And I don't know how you can. 


I personally don't make the decision to go to war.  You don't personally make the decision to get an abortion.  Either way, people die, although the numbers dying are much higher on the one side.  And, frankly, I don't think even with the war the number of dead Iraqis has caught up to what Saddam did when he was in power.  And that was not collateral damage, that was planned wholesale murder...very similar to abortion.  Gas them all, men women and children, defenseless and unable to fight back.  Line them up on the side of a pit, shoot them all, cover them up.  Torture, beheading.  Slice and dice, partially born, suck their brains out.  There is a similarity.  Murder.  Barbarism.  Same result.  Dead human beings.  When all is said and done, if a free Iraq emerges and that sort of behavior does not occur again, then I am willing to bet the Iraqis, down the road, will believe that it was worth it.  They thought so when they were waving American flags and hugging soldiers and toppling Saddam statues.   Just like we believed after the Revolutionary War and the Civil War, horrible and bloody though they were, were worth it. 


I sleep well at night and am comfortable with my decisions.  I assume you do too. So at least I will agree to disagree.


:)


Forgotten the minute you took you last best shot.
nm
Don't know. It was just a 1 minute report on the news (nm)
nm
Wait a minute...we don't need GW, cuz we have McSAME!!!
Hurray, hurray!!!!! We will all be saved. Our wallets will get fat. Interest rates will go down. We'll get to see other parts of the world as we are fighting wars in Russia, Iran and Korea on our big screen HD TVs - right in the comfort of our own living rooms!!!! Our veterans will continue killing themselves (so let's ban abortion so we can create a whole new batch of cannon fodder). I am just GIDDY with excitement. It's going to be a whole NEW WORLD!!! Maybe we'll even get to see some action on our own turf since our military is shattered. Onward Christian Soldiers........
Wait a minute what about the guy? Condoms are...sm
easily accessible to anyone.
Wait a minute. What's that I see trailing behind me?
Well, I suwannee, what d'ya know about that.
Whoa, wait just 1 minute s/m

My husband gets a pretty good retirement check each month so I would argue they didn't QUITE steal all the pension money.


Wait a minute while I get out my sickness bag
"He's doing it simply for the love of his country". On pulleese.

Try, power, ambition, money, control, racial motives, or any other number of reasons.

As much as I didn't like McCain (and did not vote for him), he also said he was running for the love of his country and because he cared about the people. If he would have won would you have said "bless him"?

No politician runs for office because they love their country. They run for the sheer money and power it brings them.
Let's jump over to reality for a minute....(sm)
What Obama is doing is rescinding the Bush bill.  He's not putting out a new law that MAKES people do procedures they consider unethical.  So basically if you work in the medical field and you didn't do abortions before this bill, chances are that noone is going to MAKE you do them in the future.  I think Bush's bill was more targeted towards support services -- for example people who work at a pharmacy who don't believe in the morning after pill.  The point I get from all this is that if you don't want to do abortions, don't work in an abortion clinic.  The way you guys are describing it, I could make an orthodontist do brain surgery.  Let's try reality for a while.
No they didn't.....FOX covered it from minute one....
nm
Might find the 15 minute video of Palin
nm
Just wait a minute. The flags were reported
nm
I'd rather eat glass than spend a single minute
nm
Now dagnabit, wait just a doggone minute!!!
Why on earth would you think WORKING Democrats would want to support freeloaders any more than working Republicans??  Uterly ridiculous!
Forget abortion for a minute.....people...
presume to tell other people that stealing is wrong...that murder of anyone else is wrong...that any multitude of things are wrong (all the laws on the books). But in the case of abortion, don't presume to tell anyone else what they should believe. Seems a bit hypocritical to me.... :-) Have a good day, GP!
Last minute house keeping by Bush & Co.

It’s something of a tradition– administrations using their final weeks in power to ram through a slew of federal regulations. With the election grabbing the headlines, outgoing federal bureaucrats quietly propose and finalize rules that can affect the health and safety of millions.


The Bush administration has followed this tradition and expanded it. Up to 90 proposed regulations could be finalized before President George W. Bush leaves office Jan. 20. If adopted, these rules could weaken workplace safety protections, allow local police to spy in the “war on terror” and make it easier for federal agencies to ignore the Endangered Species Act.


What’s more, the administration has accelerated the rule-making process to ensure that the changes it wants will be finalized by Nov. 22.


That’s a key date, Nov. 22. It is 60 days before the next administration takes control — and most federal rules go into effect 60 days after they have been finalized. It would be a major bureaucratic undertaking for the Obama administration to reverse federal rules already in effect.


“The Bush administration has thought through last-minute regulations much more than past administrations,” said Rick Melberth, director of OMB Watch, a nonprofit group that tracks federal regulations. “They’ve said, ‘Let’s not only get them finalized; let’s get them in effect.’”


So what are the new rules?


The Washington Independent has highlighted five regulations notable for their potential effect and the way they slipped through the regulatory process. Four could to be finalized by Nov. 22. One was already — on Election Day.


1) The Dept. of Labor proposed a regulation Aug. 30 that changes how workplace safety standards are met. Labor experts contend that the administration, which previously issued only one new workplace safety standard and that under court order, is trying to make it a bureaucratic nightmare for future administrations to make workplace safety rules.


Here’s what it would do:


Currently, if the Occupational Safety and Health Admin. or the Mine Health and Safety Admin. want to introduce a new safety standard on, say, the level of exposure to toxic chemicals, it issues what is called a notice of proposed rule-making. This notice is published in the Federal Register and then debated by labor, business and relevant federal agencies.


The new regulation would add an “advanced notice of proposed rule-making,” meaning OSHA and MSHA would have prove that, say, the said chemical was seriously harming workers.


This would open the door for industry to challenge the validity of the risk assessment and then, if necessary, the actual safety standard that may come from that risk assessment.


“The purpose of this sort of rule is to require agencies to spend more time on a regulation which gives them less of a chance to actually regulate,” said David Michaels, a professor of workplace safety at George Washington University, “You’re adding at least a year, maybe two years, to the process.”


The regulation has not been finalized.


2) The administration proposed a rule that changes the employer-employee relationship laid out in the 1993 Family and Medical Leave Act.


Here’s what it would do:


The Family and Medical Leave Act says that employers must give their workers 12 weeks of unpaid leave if they are sick or need to take care of a family member or newborn. The employer’s health-care staff can check the legitimacy of the family or medical leave claim with the employee’s doctor or health-care provider.


The proposed regulation would allow the employer to directly speak with the employee’s doctor or health-care provider. The employer could also ask employees to provide more medical documentation of their conditions.


Why such a rule — which may threaten an employee’s privacy– is needed is unclear. The only study the Labor Dept. has done on the act was in 2000. The department collected comments from employers before issuing the proposed regulation, but a report analyzing the comments was never issued.


The regulation also would gives employees the right to waive their rights under the Family and Medical Leave Act, making it the first national labor law to be optional. A worker, for instance, cannot waive his right to earn a minimum wage or get paid more for overtime.


The regulation was finalized on Election Day.


3) The Dept. of Health and Human Services proposed a rule Sept. 26 that would expand the reasons that physicians or health care entities could decline to provide any procedure to include moral and religious grounds. The language of the regulation says the department hopes to correct “an attitude toward the health-care profession that health-care professionals and institutions should be required to provide or assist in the provision of medicine or procedures to which they object, or else risk being subjected to discrimination.”


Here’s what it would do:


The rule change seems to apply to abortion. But they are already several rules that say physicians or health-care entities can deny an abortion request. Some women’s health advocates contend that the proposed regulation’s broad language is meant to increase the number of physicians who not only don’t provide abortions but don’t provide contraception.


“Contraception is certainly the target of this rule,” contends Marylin Keefe, director for Reproductive Health at the National Partnership for Women and Families. “The moral and religious objections of health-care workers are now starting to take precedence over patients.”


The regulation is notable for another reason. A rule involving an employee’s religious rights must be referred to the Equal Employment and Opportunity Commission, yet the commission was never told of this proposed regulation.


A bureaucratic battled erupted when EEOC’s legal counsel, Reed Russell, wrote a regulation comment (pdf) blasting both the substance of the proposed rule and its disregard for the rule-making process.


The regulation has not been finalized.


4) On July 31, the Justice Dept. proposed a regulation that would allow state and local law enforcement agencies to collect “intelligence” information on individuals and organizations even if the information is unrelated to a criminal matter.


“This is a continuum that started back on 9/11 to reform law enforcement and the intelligence community to focus on the terrorism threat,” said Bush homeland security adviser Kenneth L. Wainstein in a statement.


Critics say it could infringe on civil liberties.


Here’s what it would do:


“It expands local law enforcement’s ability to investigate criminal activity that it deems suspicious,” said Melberth of OMB Watch. “But what’s suspicious to you may not be suspicious to me. They could be investigating community organizations they think are two or three steps away from a terrorist group.”


The regulation has not been finalized.


5) Before a federal agency approves any construction project– anything from building a dam to a post office — government officials must consult the Fish and Wildlife Service and the National Marine Fisheries Service. These two agencies enforce the Endangered Species Act, and they can veto any project that adversely affects an animal on the endangered species list.


Here’s what it would do:


A regulation proposed by the Interior Dept. Aug. 12 would end this approval process. “It destroys a system of checks and balances that have been in place for two decades,” claimed Bob Davison, senior scientist at Defenders of the Wildlife. “[A federal agency] wants to go forward with a project that [it wants] to do. So you need an independent agency to look at the decision.”


Davison is not the only conservation advocate up in arms. The Interior Dept. has received 200,000 public comments, which may affect the final rule.


Or not — the department shortened the comment period from 60 to 30 days in its effort to get the regulation finalized.


In May, White House Chief of Staff Josh Bolten vowed that the administration would propose no regulations after June 1. He and White House spokesman Tony Fratto have repeatedly stated their contempt for what they call “midnight regulations.”


Yet with the exception of the Family and Medical Leave changes, each of these regulations were proposed after June 1. And if finalized, they will effect worker’s safety, women’s health-care choices, local police powers and endangered species.


“It was a pretty resounding election,” said Keefe of the National Partnership for Women and Families. “But this administration acts like it still has a mandate.”


Well sugar, it becomes anti-Semitic the minute

you use Hitler to illustrate your point.  This "occupation" you speak if simply a myth created and perpetuated by the Palestinians.  Aside from the history I posted below, allow me to post more on the subject of "occupation." 


The Jewish perspective on Palestine was that with proper development there would be room for all. Many of the early settlers were Labor Zionists and they identified with the poor Arab fellahin. In 1920, David Ben Gurion (who would later declare the State of Israel and become its first Prime Minister) stated: "under no circumstances must we touch land belonging to fellahs or worked by them... Only if a fellah leaves his place of settlement should we offer to buy his land, at an appropriate price."

Thus the focus was on the purchase of uncultivated lands, often swamps or barren sand dunes, and with no tenants (e.g. the Hula valley, Tel Aviv).

In 1930, John Hope Simpson (chair of the Hope Simpson Commission) noted that Jews "paid high prices for land, and in addition they paid to certain occupants of those lands a considerable amount of money which they were not legally bound to pay." (P. 51, Hope Simpson report)


The next year, after Arab cries about being dispossessed from their land, Lewis French led a British effort to provide land to Arabs that had been displaced. Of the 3,000 applications received, 80% were determined to be invalid. Ultimately, only about 100 landless Arabs were offered alternative plots. (from French's Supplementary Report submitted to the Palestine Royal Commission.)

In 1936 the Peel Commission arrived on the scene. From its PRC report (p. 242): "much of the land now carrying orange groves were sand dunes or swamp and uncultivated when it was purchased.... there was at the time... little evidence that the owners possessed either the resources or training needed to develop the land."

The vast majority of Jewish owned lands had been uncultivated, often thought to be uncultivatable. Jews, who comprised roughly a third of the population, only held 11% of the land that was defined as "arable." The Peel Commission found that any land shortage was "due less to the amount of land acquired by Jews than to the increase in the Arab population."

This increase far exceeded population increases in neighboring countries and, not surprisingly, took place in areas where development by Jews was at work. While Jewish immigration was regulated, restricted, and at times totally forbidden by the British, scores of thousands of Arabs crossed into Palestine from miles and miles of poorly patrolled land borders.


So this was the glorious country of Palestine that the Palestinians (most of them great, great grandchildren of those who live there now) talk about. Most of their ancestors were immigrants, brought to Palestine between WWI and II by the British at the request of the other Arab countries who promised them cheap oil if they helped. They did.  In the meantime, Jews had started settling there and building up the land.

The myth that the area was thriving prior to Jewish development is false.  It had its moments, but alternated between desert and malaria infested swamps.  So much for the claim that the land had been held, or at least worked if not owned by a family, for "generations." Plots were changed "annually."

Thus, while most people who don't know the history of Israel, think Jews stole the land, they are very much mistaken. It was purchased. Israeli land was developed into orange groves from swamps, from sand dunes into cities. And now, the Palestinians who hadn't the least interest in that land until the Jews developed it. wanted it. While the Israeli population increased slowly, the Arab population increased ten-fold both from immigration and very large families huddled into poor neighborhoods. Instead of building infrastructure, US aid was pocketed by Arafat and other Palestinian leaders to increase their bank accounts and to wage wars.

Arafat himself was no Palestinian. Like most Palestinians he was also an immigrant; an Egyptian. After the UN partitioned Palestine, and declared Israel a state, Palestine, Jordan, Syria, and Egypt, armed to the teeth, declared war on Israel. Though Israel had few weapons, and no help from any other country, they won the 1948 War of Independence. The Arabs have waged 5 wars on Israel, and lost all of them. In addition there have been many multi-terrorist attacks. Though won in bloody battles, Israel was forced to return the West Bank, most of Jerusalem, the Sinai and other territories which they gained with their lives in wars that the Arabs started.


That's the story. Most of you know the rest. The Intifada, the suicide bombers, the constant attacks of Arabs on Israeli settlements, the canons from the Golan Heights, which, rained down on Jewish kibbutzes, (farms) and the theft of all the money supplied by the US to Palestine which enriched Arafat's pockets and is now in the hands of his young late wife and a Swiss bank. To blind the people as to what he was doing (stealing American money) Arafat ( a terrorist himself who in his younger days blew up Jewish children's school buses) encouraged Arab Palestinians to terrorize the Israelis. Arafat continued his terrorism from Jordan and Lebanon (two Arab countries), and was kicked out of both for causing anarchy and chaos. He returned to Palestine, and more terrorist groups formed and developed, most under his directive.

Palestinian groups that support and carry out acts of political violence include Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, Fatah's Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, - General Command, the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine, and the Abu Nidal Organization, all of which are officially listed as terrorist organizations by the United States and the European Union. Until 1993, the PLO was also listed as a terrorist group, but in 1988 Arafat renounced violence. (duh) Didn't happen. The PLO Charter's full text of this infamous document negates Israel's right to exist and calls for its destruction through violence. Peace Watch has explained, the PLO's vote on April 24, 1996 did not satisfy its legal obligation to amend the charter.

Terrorism was picked up by other Arab countries. Now it goes on around the Arab world.



hang on a minute? WE'LL get paid less or lose jobs.
nm
Condi lies through her teeth in her 1-minute Gaza statement.

"Hamas has held the people of Gaza hostage "ever since their illegal coup" against the forces of (Palestinian Authority) President Mahmoud Abbas."  In the AP report, they attempted to scour this lie by stating that Rice pinned the blame for the violence on Hamas, the Islamist Resitance Movement that "seized power" in Gaza in June 2007 after "ousting" the US-backed Palestinian Authority of Mahmud Abbas.  Neither statement even remotely resembles the truth. 


Hamas won control of 28 municipalities in both the West Bank and Gaza in the municipal elections of 2005, including control in the West Bank's largest cities (Nablus, Jenin, Ramallah and East Jerusalem).   They achieved a stunning victory in the legislative elections in 2006,  which yielded a yielded a 78% voter turnout.  Hamas won 76 out of 132 seats on the Legislative Council.  Factoring in the 4 seats won by independents who support Hamas, they seized 80 seats, giving them control of 60.6% of the council.  In other words, they did BETTER than the US democrats in 2008. 


Hamas benefited in the election from the fractures in the secular, US-backed (kiss of death) Fatah party of Mahmoud Abbas.  Fierce in-fighting between Hamas and Fatah factions erupted in the election aftermath.  Israel and the US (along with Egypt) immediately tried to undermine Hamas and force them from power, even going so far as to arm and train Fatah for a war with Hamas!  They hatched a plot that involved smuggling US arms for Fatah strongholds in Gaza through a suddenly porous Egyptian border with Israel's blessing.   


As with countless other ill-advised US attempts to rearrange the political landscape in the Middle East, this stunt backfired all over the place.  When this engineered conflict erupted later in the summer, Fatah and Hamas officers and leaders (including Abbas) were targeted by their respective militia's opponents.  Things got really nasty and Abbas HIMSELF dissolved the Palestinian-Hamas unity government, declared a state of emergency, tried to dismiss the prime minister and declared himself ruler of Gaza by presidential decree.  Can you say US-backed coup?  Of course, this went over like a lead balloon with the newly elected Hamas leadership.


Ultimately, this led to the current division of government between Gaza (Hamas) and the West Bank (Palestinian National Authority), who the US and EU normalized relations with and began sending direct aid.  Abbas relocated to the West Bank and is still the President of the Palestinian National Authority.  In the meantime, he has found it increasingly more difficult to sustain the more moderate status quo support of US-brokered peace initiatives with Israel in view of the absence of such during Bush's second term.  He has announced he will not run for office again at the end of his current term.  In May 2008, he stated he would resign if Condi's impotent so-called peace talks did not produce results within 6 months.  In July, he spoke not only of resigning, but also of dismantling the Palestinian Authority all together. 


As a footnote, Gaza is held hostage by Israel occupation of Palestine and its 18-month blockade, which Condi failed to mention in her statement this morning, not by their democratically elected representatives. 


http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2007/jun/16/israel.comment http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3412813,00.html


http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/14/international/middleeast/14mideast.html?_r=2&ei=5094&en=d28cff5caa1702fa&hp=&ex=1139979600&partner=homepage&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin


http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0525/p07s02-wome.html


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/12/14/MNGIPMV3N61.DTL


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article640747.ece


http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/806603.html


Sure starting to look like she wasn't fully vetted and chosen last minute as a token female...nm
1
Add this to the list
Remember a while back when this story first hit the fan and the cons from the other board came over to tell us we are paranoid? Boy, life sure is simpler if you drink the Kool-Aid, isn't it?

A representative from Qwest just told me they have had lots of calls switching their service over to them.


By Leslie Cauley, USA TODAY
The National Security Agency has been secretly collecting the phone call records of tens of millions of Americans, using data provided by AT&T, Verizon and BellSouth, people with direct knowledge of the arrangement told USA TODAY.

The NSA program reaches into homes and businesses across the nation by amassing information about the calls of ordinary Americans — most of whom aren't suspected of any crime. This program does not involve the NSA listening to or recording conversations. But the spy agency is using the data to analyze calling patterns in an effort to detect terrorist activity, sources said in separate interviews.

QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS: The NSA record collection program

It's the largest database ever assembled in the world, said one person, who, like the others who agreed to talk about the NSA's activities, declined to be identified by name or affiliation. The agency's goal is to create a database of every call ever made within the nation's borders, this person added.

For the customers of these companies, it means that the government has detailed records of calls they made — across town or across the country — to family members, co-workers, business contacts and others.

The three telecommunications companies are working under contract with the NSA, which launched the program in 2001 shortly after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, the sources said. The program is aimed at identifying and tracking suspected terrorists, they said.

The sources would talk only under a guarantee of anonymity because the NSA program is secret.

Air Force Gen. Michael Hayden, nominated Monday by President Bush to become the director of the CIA, headed the NSA from March 1999 to April 2005. In that post, Hayden would have overseen the agency's domestic call-tracking program. Hayden declined to comment about the program.

The NSA's domestic program, as described by sources, is far more expansive than what the White House has acknowledged. Last year, Bush said he had authorized the NSA to eavesdrop — without warrants — on international calls and international e-mails of people suspected of having links to terrorists when one party to the communication is in the USA. Warrants have also not been used in the NSA's efforts to create a national call database.

In defending the previously disclosed program, Bush insisted that the NSA was focused exclusively on international calls. In other words, Bush explained, one end of the communication must be outside the United States.

As a result, domestic call records — those of calls that originate and terminate within U.S. borders — were believed to be private.

Sources, however, say that is not the case. With access to records of billions of domestic calls, the NSA has gained a secret window into the communications habits of millions of Americans. Customers' names, street addresses and other personal information are not being handed over as part of NSA's domestic program, the sources said. But the phone numbers the NSA collects can easily be cross-checked with other databases to obtain that information.

Don Weber, a senior spokesman for the NSA, declined to discuss the agency's operations. Given the nature of the work we do, it would be irresponsible to comment on actual or alleged operational issues; therefore, we have no information to provide, he said. However, it is important to note that NSA takes its legal responsibilities seriously and operates within the law.

The White House would not discuss the domestic call-tracking program. There is no domestic surveillance without court approval, said Dana Perino, deputy press secretary, referring to actual eavesdropping.

She added that all national intelligence activities undertaken by the federal government are lawful, necessary and required for the pursuit of al-Qaeda and affiliated terrorists. All government-sponsored intelligence activities are carefully reviewed and monitored, Perino said. She also noted that all appropriate members of Congress have been briefed on the intelligence efforts of the United States.

The government is collecting external data on domestic phone calls but is not intercepting internals, a term for the actual content of the communication, according to a U.S. intelligence official familiar with the program. This kind of data collection from phone companies is not uncommon; it's been done before, though never on this large a scale, the official said. The data are used for social network analysis, the official said, meaning to study how terrorist networks contact each other and how they are tied together.

Carriers uniquely positioned

AT&T recently merged with SBC and kept the AT&T name. Verizon, BellSouth and AT&T are the nation's three biggest telecommunications companies; they provide local and wireless phone service to more than 200 million customers.

The three carriers control vast networks with the latest communications technologies. They provide an array of services: local and long-distance calling, wireless and high-speed broadband, including video. Their direct access to millions of homes and businesses has them uniquely positioned to help the government keep tabs on the calling habits of Americans.

Among the big telecommunications companies, only Qwest has refused to help the NSA, the sources said. According to multiple sources, Qwest declined to participate because it was uneasy about the legal implications of handing over customer information to the government without warrants.

Qwest's refusal to participate has left the NSA with a hole in its database. Based in Denver, Qwest provides local phone service to 14 million customers in 14 states in the West and Northwest. But AT&T and Verizon also provide some services — primarily long-distance and wireless — to people who live in Qwest's region. Therefore, they can provide the NSA with at least some access in that area.

Created by President Truman in 1952, during the Korean War, the NSA is charged with protecting the United States from foreign security threats. The agency was considered so secret that for years the government refused to even confirm its existence. Government insiders used to joke that NSA stood for No Such Agency.

In 1975, a congressional investigation revealed that the NSA had been intercepting, without warrants, international communications for more than 20 years at the behest of the CIA and other agencies. The spy campaign, code-named Shamrock, led to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA), which was designed to protect Americans from illegal eavesdropping.

Enacted in 1978, FISA lays out procedures that the U.S. government must follow to conduct electronic surveillance and physical searches of people believed to be engaged in espionage or international terrorism against the United States. A special court, which has 11 members, is responsible for adjudicating requests under FISA.

Over the years, NSA code-cracking techniques have continued to improve along with technology. The agency today is considered expert in the practice of data mining — sifting through reams of information in search of patterns. Data mining is just one of many tools NSA analysts and mathematicians use to crack codes and track international communications.

Paul Butler, a former U.S. prosecutor who specialized in terrorism crimes, said FISA approval generally isn't necessary for government data-mining operations. FISA does not prohibit the government from doing data mining, said Butler, now a partner with the law firm Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld in Washington, D.C.

The caveat, he said, is that personal identifiers — such as names, Social Security numbers and street addresses — can't be included as part of the search. That requires an additional level of probable cause, he said.

The usefulness of the NSA's domestic phone-call database as a counterterrorism tool is unclear. Also unclear is whether the database has been used for other purposes.

The NSA's domestic program raises legal questions. Historically, AT&T and the regional phone companies have required law enforcement agencies to present a court order before they would even consider turning over a customer's calling data. Part of that owed to the personality of the old Bell Telephone System, out of which those companies grew.

Ma Bell's bedrock principle — protection of the customer — guided the company for decades, said Gene Kimmelman, senior public policy director of Consumers Union. No court order, no customer information — period. That's how it was for decades, he said.

The concern for the customer was also based on law: Under Section 222 of the Communications Act, first passed in 1934, telephone companies are prohibited from giving out information regarding their customers' calling habits: whom a person calls, how often and what routes those calls take to reach their final destination. Inbound calls, as well as wireless calls, also are covered.

The financial penalties for violating Section 222, one of many privacy reinforcements that have been added to the law over the years, can be stiff. The Federal Communications Commission, the nation's top telecommunications regulatory agency, can levy fines of up to $130,000 per day per violation, with a cap of $1.325 million per violation. The FCC has no hard definition of violation. In practice, that means a single violation could cover one customer or 1 million.

In the case of the NSA's international call-tracking program, Bush signed an executive order allowing the NSA to engage in eavesdropping without a warrant. The president and his representatives have since argued that an executive order was sufficient for the agency to proceed. Some civil liberties groups, including the American Civil Liberties Union, disagree.

Companies approached

The NSA's domestic program began soon after the Sept. 11 attacks, according to the sources. Right around that time, they said, NSA representatives approached the nation's biggest telecommunications companies. The agency made an urgent pitch: National security is at risk, and we need your help to protect the country from attacks.

The agency told the companies that it wanted them to turn over their call-detail records, a complete listing of the calling histories of their millions of customers. In addition, the NSA wanted the carriers to provide updates, which would enable the agency to keep tabs on the nation's calling habits.

The sources said the NSA made clear that it was willing to pay for the cooperation. AT&T, which at the time was headed by C. Michael Armstrong, agreed to help the NSA. So did BellSouth, headed by F. Duane Ackerman; SBC, headed by Ed Whitacre; and Verizon, headed by Ivan Seidenberg.

With that, the NSA's domestic program began in earnest.

AT&T, when asked about the program, replied with a comment prepared for USA TODAY: We do not comment on matters of national security, except to say that we only assist law enforcement and government agencies charged with protecting national security in strict accordance with the law.

In another prepared comment, BellSouth said: BellSouth does not provide any confidential customer information to the NSA or any governmental agency without proper legal authority.

Verizon, the USA's No. 2 telecommunications company behind AT&T, gave this statement: We do not comment on national security matters, we act in full compliance with the law and we are committed to safeguarding our customers' privacy.

Qwest spokesman Robert Charlton said: We can't talk about this. It's a classified situation.

In December, The New York Times revealed that Bush had authorized the NSA to wiretap, without warrants, international phone calls and e-mails that travel to or from the USA. The following month, the Electronic Frontier Foundation, a civil liberties group, filed a class-action lawsuit against AT&T. The lawsuit accuses the company of helping the NSA spy on U.S. phone customers.

Last month, U.S. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales alluded to that possibility. Appearing at a House Judiciary Committee hearing, Gonzales was asked whether he thought the White House has the legal authority to monitor domestic traffic without a warrant. Gonzales' reply: I wouldn't rule it out. His comment marked the first time a Bush appointee publicly asserted that the White House might have that authority.

Similarities in programs

The domestic and international call-tracking programs have things in common, according to the sources. Both are being conducted without warrants and without the approval of the FISA court. The Bush administration has argued that FISA's procedures are too slow in some cases. Officials, including Gonzales, also make the case that the USA Patriot Act gives them broad authority to protect the safety of the nation's citizens.

The chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Sen. Pat Roberts, R-Kan., would not confirm the existence of the program. In a statement, he said, I can say generally, however, that our subcommittee has been fully briefed on all aspects of the Terrorist Surveillance Program. ... I remain convinced that the program authorized by the president is lawful and absolutely necessary to protect this nation from future attacks.

The chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, Rep. Pete Hoekstra, R-Mich., declined to comment.

One company differs

One major telecommunications company declined to participate in the program: Qwest.

According to sources familiar with the events, Qwest's CEO at the time, Joe Nacchio, was deeply troubled by the NSA's assertion that Qwest didn't need a court order — or approval under FISA — to proceed. Adding to the tension, Qwest was unclear about who, exactly, would have access to its customers' information and how that information might be used.

Financial implications were also a concern, the sources said. Carriers that illegally divulge calling information can be subjected to heavy fines. The NSA was asking Qwest to turn over millions of records. The fines, in the aggregate, could have been substantial.

The NSA told Qwest that other government agencies, including the FBI, CIA and DEA, also might have access to the database, the sources said. As a matter of practice, the NSA regularly shares its information — known as product in intelligence circles — with other intelligence groups. Even so, Qwest's lawyers were troubled by the expansiveness of the NSA request, the sources said.

The NSA, which needed Qwest's participation to completely cover the country, pushed back hard.

Trying to put pressure on Qwest, NSA representatives pointedly told Qwest that it was the lone holdout among the big telecommunications companies. It also tried appealing to Qwest's patriotic side: In one meeting, an NSA representative suggested that Qwest's refusal to contribute to the database could compromise national security, one person recalled.

In addition, the agency suggested that Qwest's foot-dragging might affect its ability to get future classified work with the government. Like other big telecommunications companies, Qwest already had classified contracts and hoped to get more.

Unable to get comfortable with what NSA was proposing, Qwest's lawyers asked NSA to take its proposal to the FISA court. According to the sources, the agency refused.

The NSA's explanation did little to satisfy Qwest's lawyers. They told (Qwest) they didn't want to do that because FISA might not agree with them, one person recalled. For similar reasons, this person said, NSA rejected Qwest's suggestion of getting a letter of authorization from the U.S. attorney general's office. A second person confirmed this version of events.

In June 2002, Nacchio resigned amid allegations that he had misled investors about Qwest's financial health. But Qwest's legal questions about the NSA request remained.

Unable to reach agreement, Nacchio's successor, Richard Notebaert, finally pulled the plug on the NSA talks in late 2004, the sources said.

Contributing: John Diamond
Posted 5/10/2006 11:16 PM ET
Wow. That is quite a list
you've got there. It sounds like you would be happiest in another country and I am not being a smart aleck here. There are countries where your list is pretty much real life. Cuba, Equador, Paraguay, Uruguay to name a few. I know a man who just moved to Equador and he is quite happy. He went for many of the reasons you state. He really just wanted to be left alone. Besides, it is beautiful there...the Gallapagos Islands...the best mangoes in the world. I have given a lot of thought to moving out of the U.S. for a time anyway to try to gain some perspective. Just a thought.
P.S. I don't have a list

 of bottom feeders. In this world of ever worsening crises, misery, pain, hunger, intolerance, etc., I am trying more and more to avoid what I consider to be the ugliness that I cab avoid; meaning I don't have to listen to, I don't have to read, etc. There is enough sadness that I cannot turn my back on but I can turn my back on bottom feeders.


 


List what he's done, please

Sean Hannity has been asking people all over the place, to no avail.  I'm guessing you saw Newt & that NBC guy, who couldn't provide an answer?


At least you posed your piece in a respectful tone.  The tone on this board has become so obnoxious that I could be in DailyKos Land and not even know the difference. 


Sally Quinn even went on O'Reilly Factoid to admit she had been wrong about Sarah.  That's impressive.


Acc. to your list......
almost everybody is then a natural-born-citizen.
Then no need to change the constitution.
Thank you for proving again that Obama is a natural-born American citizen.
I hope that the Republicans put this issue FINALLY to rest.
Add another one to the list...sm

Hurt by competition from Best Buy Co. and Wal-Mart Stores Inc. and by pressure from the downturn in the economy that led shoppers to cut back on discretionary purchases, the 59-year old Circuit City Stores Inc. on Monday filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection.

Circuit City's move came a week after the company, suffering from declining sales, traffic and cash, said that it planned to shut 155 U.S. underperforming stores and cut 7,300 jobs in a last-ditch effort to stay afloat. 

Click link below for more info....................


http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/circuit-city-files-chapter-11/story.aspx?guid=%7BD9CB8DE9-943F-4C3F-A007-24081B471F20%7D&dist=msr_5


Do you really want the list...(sm)

of broken promises from Bush?  He had 8 years to get his done, and failed miserably.  Obama has had what....3 whole days and you already want to crucify him?  For all the whining you guys did about kool-aid drinkers thinking Obama is God, you seem to be the ones expecting miracles.