I agree that Sam's and Gourdpainter's posts showed the differences (sm)
Posted By: MeMT on 2008-11-03
In Reply to: To Gourdpainter: I want to personally s/m - sweetpea
between the two candidates but I think you are absolutely clueless when it comes to your judgement. Sam's posts are always backed by facts. No one is her "follower." We who are voting for McCain are often grateful that she takes the time to find these facts and post them for all to see. While I can appreciate your admiration for Gourdpainter, your insults to Sam are completely unfounded and uncalled for. You Obama-backers are always looking for proof---show me some proof that Sam's posts are garbage. Proof please?
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Political differences aside, I agree with you
a few things. I acknowledge that welfare abuse was rampant back in the 80s and early 90s. Though not perfect, I believe that welfare reform has closed many loopoles that enabled it and that the numbers of welfare abusers has been drastically reduced. I have very little tolerance for it myself, and I am what you would consider to be a bleeding heart liberal...but not in this arena. The system could use a little tweaking here and there but there is little room for slacking. Most programs (not all) are tied in with mandatory transitional job placement and job training programs. For single parents, this can really be a challenge and I am not sure that group's child care needs are effectively addressed, though I do think that also has improved.
That said, I do believe there is room for considerable improvement for welfare prevention in terms of educational assistance on all levels, and especially in the areas of jobs skill training outside the college level environment. These too can be tied to transitional job placement requirements in some cases and better on-the-job training programs which have virtually disappeared. For better or worse (!), that's how I leared medical transcription.
Another area of concern for me is the children of poverty who are innocent bystanders. Food and health programs for them are a fixed necessity. Affordable housing is another part of this equation. At the very least, all of these types of initiatives should NOT be slashed and, with the mortgage crisis and unemployment figures looking the way they do, they probably will need a boost in the next couple of years.
I like reading your posts, gourdpainter, even f they are pagelong!.
because they are an inspiration and they are YOUR words and full of the right knowledge, grace and true feelings. Thank You.
Go, Obama !
I know that Gourdpainter will not agree,
but part of the problem is the ridiculously high wages that American manufacturer employees get in contrast to the foreign manufacturers with plants her in the US, which is because of the unions. With higher wages comes higher overhead and higher prices. They cannot sell cars at competitive prices because their employees make too much money. It is unfortunate, but I think that a lower paying job is better than no job at all.
I agree, gourdpainter, to a point....
but one thing I DO know...Obama and a majority democrat congress mean socialism. There are no two ways about it. And I DON'T want socialism for America. So I would not vote for Obama, and if I vote for a third party and NOT McCain, that is a vote for Obama. I will NOT be a party to putting that man in the White House. No way, no how.
I am a registered Independent. I have not been a party faithful for several years. But I am concerned enough about Obama and his agenda that I am voting a straight Republican ticket for the FIRST time in my life. THAT is how much I DO NOT want him and his agenda for this country.
I agree with McCain on some things "he says." If he does them, fine. If he doesn't, we still don't get socialism. If McCain just gets elected and the status quo remains, we don't get socialism.
I don't want socialism. I don't know how much more clear I need to be about it.
I sadly enough agree with you Gourdpainter
I think the ugliness has barely begun. Truth will out in the end, it always does.
Gourdpainter, I agree with you. So do most people since Obama is ahead of McCain.
McCain doesn't have any solutions except trying to get Palin to tear down Obama with her big mouth.
Differences in Wives of the candidates...
So I have only seen Michelle and Cindy speak few times.
However I have noticed something that sticks out to me tremendously, and this was the attitude of the two.
Last night Cindy was calm, sweet, and caring.
Michele seems hard, negative, and loud.
Obviously I am a Republican, but I pride myself on trying to be objective. Do we see these things differently or is this agreed upon? Cindy definitely seems like a weak little doe, and Michele a tough ox.
I'm not saying either is worse, just something I observed.
I could not agree more with your posts!.....nm
nm
I agree, especially with your posts.
There IS nothing that contains one scintilla of anything that could be called I haven't seen one scintilla of anything that could properly be called "fair minded" or "well researched" when all someone can do is refer to someone's posted initials as "Just Terribly Bad Breath."
All that is, is kindergarten bullying and name-calling. I DO find JTBB's posts to be intelligent and well written, but any time just ONE person agrees with her, the mob mentality swarms down like a bunch of nasty, stinging yellow jackets.
Well, if Obama WOULD agree with your posts...
yet another huge reason not to vote for him. But I do not think for 1 minute he would. I cannot imagine this sort of ... tripe ... issuing from Barack Obama's mouth. If it did, he would be maligning a good portion of his base. But even that said...I don't believe he would. I believe he is a basically decent man...and basic decency should preclude anyone from posting this ... well to call it crap elevates it.
Thank you, Nanaw. Don't agree with some of your posts,
x
Beautiful posts and I agree with all of you
We need to come together regardless of our personal feelings about the outcome of this election. I believe both candidates are sincere in their desire to do what's best for our country. Something that helps me remember God is ultimately the one in control is to pray "Thy will be done."
I agree, and I enjoy reading your posts.
Wow. A historical moment. I almost never agree with your posts....
x
I'm saying CNN reported showed it rt b4
Still looking, but since CNN repeats their stuff so much, you can probably catch the report later this p.m.
Not sure the link showed up.
http://www.culturejamforlife.com/nobama2008/
They just showed last night on the
news a house in Houston that is used for polling, about 100 people show up to vote there. The husband is a precinct official and his wife makes the coffee, etc.
They Sure Showed That Obama
By FRANK RICH
Published: February 14, 2009
AM I crazy, or wasn’t the Obama presidency pronounced dead just days ago? Obama had “all but lost control of the agenda in Washington,” declared Newsweek on Feb. 4 as it wondered whether he might even get a stimulus package through Congress. “Obama Losing Stimulus Message War” was the headline at Politico a day later. At the mostly liberal MSNBC, the morning host, Joe Scarborough, started preparing the final rites. Obama couldn’t possibly eke out a victory because the stimulus package was “a steaming pile of garbage.”
Less than a month into Obama’s term, we don’t (and can’t) know how he’ll fare as president. The compromised stimulus package, while hardly garbage, may well be inadequate. Timothy Geithner’s uninspiring and opaque stab at a bank rescue is at best a place holder and at worst a rearrangement of the deck chairs on the TARP-Titanic, where he served as Hank Paulson’s first mate.
But we do know this much. Just as in the presidential campaign, Obama has once again outwitted the punditocracy and the opposition. The same crowd that said he was a wimpy hope-monger who could never beat Hillary or get white votes was played for fools again.
On Wednesday, as a stimulus deal became a certainty on Capitol Hill, I asked David Axelrod for his take on this Groundhog Day relationship between Obama and the political culture.
“It’s why our campaign was not based in Washington but in Chicago,” he said. “We were somewhat insulated from the echo chamber. In the summer of ’07, the conventional wisdom was that Obama was a shooting star; his campaign was irretrievably lost; it was a ludicrous strategy to focus on Iowa; and we were falling further and further behind in the national polls.” But even after the Iowa victory, this same syndrome kept repeating itself. When Obama came out against the gas-tax holiday supported by both McCain and Clinton last spring, Axelrod recalled, “everyone in D.C. thought we were committing suicide.”
The stimulus battle was more of the same. “This town talks to itself and whips itself into a frenzy with its own theories that are completely at odds with what the rest of America is thinking,” he says. Once the frenzy got going, it didn’t matter that most polls showed support for Obama and his economic package: “If you watched cable TV, you’d see our support was plummeting, we were in trouble. It was almost like living in a parallel universe.”
For Axelrod, the moral is “not just that Washington is too insular but that the American people are a lot smarter than people in Washington think.”
Here’s a third moral: Overdosing on this culture can be fatal. Because Republicans are isolated in that parallel universe and believe all the noise in its echo chamber, they are now as out of touch with reality as the “inevitable” Clinton campaign was before it got clobbered in Iowa. The G.O.P. doesn’t recognize that it emerged from the stimulus battle even worse off than when it started. That obliviousness gives the president the opening to win more ambitious policy victories than last week’s. Having checked the box on attempted bipartisanship, Obama can now move in for the kill.
A useful template for the current political dynamic can be found in one of the McCain campaign’s more memorable pratfalls. Last fall, it was the Beltway mantra that Obama was doomed with all those working-class Rust Belt Democrats who’d flocked to Hillary in the primaries. The beefy, beer-drinking, deer-hunting white guys — incessantly interviewed in bars and diners — would never buy the skinny black intellectual. Nor would the “dead-ender” Hillary women. The McCain camp not only bought into this received wisdom, but bet the bank on it, pouring resources into states like Michigan and Wisconsin before abandoning them and doubling down on Pennsylvania in the stretch. The sucker-punched McCain lost all three states by percentages in the double digits.
The stimulus opponents, egged on by all the media murmurings about Obama “losing control,” also thought they had a sure thing. Their TV advantage added to their complacency. As the liberal blog ThinkProgress reported, G.O.P. members of Congress wildly outnumbered Democrats as guests on all cable news networks, not just Fox News, in the three days of intense debate about the House stimulus bill. They started pounding in their slogans relentlessly. The bill was not a stimulus package but an orgy of pork spending. The ensuing deficit would amount to “generational theft.” F.D.R.’s New Deal had been an abject failure.
This barrage did shave a few points off the stimulus’s popularity in polls, but its approval rating still remained above 50 percent in all (Gallup, CNN, Pew, CBS) but one of them (Rasmussen, the sole poll the G.O.P. cites). Perhaps the stimulus held its own because the public, in defiance of Washington’s condescending assumption, was smart enough to figure out that the government can’t create jobs without spending and that Bush-era Republicans have no moral authority to lecture about deficits. Some Americans may even have ancestors saved from penury by the New Deal.
In any event, the final score was unambiguous. The stimulus package arrived with the price tag and on roughly the schedule Obama had set for it. The president’s job approval percentage now ranges from the mid 60s (Gallup, Pew) to mid 70s (CNN) — not bad for a guy who won the presidency with 52.9 percent of the vote. While 48 percent of Americans told CBS, Gallup and Pew that they approve of Congressional Democrats, only 31 (Gallup), 32 (CBS) and 34 (Pew) percent could say the same of their G.O.P. counterparts.
At least some media hands are chagrined. After the stimulus prevailed, Scarborough speculated on MSNBC that “perhaps we’ve overanalyzed it, we don’t know what we’re talking about.” But the Republicans are busy high-fiving themselves and celebrating “victory.” Even in defeat, they are still echoing the 24/7 cable mantra about the stimulus’s unpopularity. This self-congratulatory mood is summed up by a Wall Street Journal columnist who wrote that “the House Republicans’ zero votes for the Obama presidency’s stimulus ‘package’ is looking like the luckiest thing to happen to the G.O.P.’s political fortunes since Ronald Reagan switched parties.” There hasn’t been this much delusional giddiness in these ranks since Monica Lewinsky promised a surefire Republican sweep in the 1998 midterms.
Not all Republicans are so clueless, whether in Congress or beyond. Charlie Crist, the moderate Florida governor who appeared with the president in his Fort Myers, Fla., town-hall meeting last week, has Obama-like approval ratings in the 70s. Naturally, the party’s hard-liners in Washington loathe him. Their idea of a good public face for the G.O.P. is a sound-bite dispenser like the new chairman, Michael Steele, a former Maryland lieutenant governor. Steele’s argument against the stimulus package is that “in the history of mankind” no “federal, state or local” government has ever “created one job.” As it happens, among the millions of jobs created by the government are the federal investigators now pursuing Steele for alleged financial improprieties in his failed 2006 Senate campaign.
This G.O.P., a largely white Southern male party with talking points instead of ideas and talking heads instead of leaders, is not unlike those “zombie banks” that we’re being asked to bail out. It is in too much denial to acknowledge its own insolvency and toxic assets. Given the mess the country is in, it would be helpful to have an adult opposition that could pull its weight, but that’s not the hand America has been dealt.
As Judd Gregg flakes out and Lindsey Graham throws made-for-YouTube hissy fits on the Senate floor, Obama should stay focused on the big picture in governing as he did in campaigning. That’s the steady course he upheld when much of the political establishment was either second-guessing or ridiculing it, and there’s no reason to change it now. The stimulus victory showed that even as president Obama can ambush Washington’s conventional wisdom as if he were still an insurgent.
But, as he said in Fort Myers last week, he will ultimately be judged by his results. If the economy isn’t turned around, he told the crowd, then “you’ll have a new president.” The stimulus bill is only a first step on that arduous path. The biggest mistake he can make now is to be too timid. This country wants a New Deal, including on energy and health care, not a New Deal lite. Far from depleting Obama’s clout, the stimulus battle instead reaffirmed that he has the political capital to pursue the agenda of change he campaigned on.
Republicans will also be judged by the voters. If they want to obstruct and filibuster while the economy is in free fall, the president should call their bluff and let them go at it. In the first four years after F.D.R. took over from Hoover, the already decimated ranks of Republicans in Congress fell from 36 to 16 in the Senate and from 117 to 88 in the House. The G.O.P. is so insistent that the New Deal was a mirage it may well have convinced itself that its own sorry record back then didn’t happen either.
well actually 15 of the hate filled showed up from the sm
church from Kansas carrying signs reading, "God hates America," "Thank God for dead soldiers." It was ridiculous. The police had blocked them off a section and in front of them were a group holding the US flag so as to block them out of site from the family and friends.
Sir Percy showed up on the C-board Y-day
and said this:
*The real terrorists are in the WhiteHouse.
And his murder will only spawn a replacement.
Do you think for one second they are going to roll over for the imperialist invaders?
How soon do you think WE in America would stop fighting an invader?
Please - try to crack open your mind, just a sliver.*
Sounds like. S.P. is a little hopeful he will be replaced. I mean, S.P. thinks the real terrorists are in the White House, so he or she obviously is on the terrorists side.
You know there are extreme leftists in this country, and some occasionally show up on these boards hoping that someone takes the country down. You know it. You can deny it all day, but it's true.
I am surprised they showed the signs sm
They actually showed them several times. A lot of people agree with that particular message. I don't agree totally with it, but do find many aspects of the official story suspicious and some of it downright stupid. Usually when there is one lie, there are others so the families request for a new investigation is valid.
The song was a little corny, but like the message. They are definitely right about the manure. I heard a lot of conservatives were there.
Hmm, pictures I saw showed her children there with her.
There are people who travel for business and take their families with them, but they don't bring the family to their business meetings. DUH? What grade are you in? If you're going to get into a battle of wits, please at least come armed.
"present", meaning he showed up, but could not
nm
You are right, Sam. I live in OH, just 1 poll showed
nm
We showed plenty of patriotism..(sm)
last Nov 4. Now THAT was a grass roots movement. Maybe you guys just didn't have the right kind of leadership for this thing. Maybe next time you should look into getting a community organizer.....
Posts were removed due to the nastiness. Play nice and posts won't get deleted.
I saw the posts for myself, no one "ran" to me. Note that all boards were reviewed for inappropriate posts.
A few signs in the audience showed that some people
abcdefg
Our local news showed some people
who waited outside for 5-6 hours in freezing temps just to save maybe $50. Lord have mercy. I guess I'm thankful I don't need or want anything enough to do that!!
You're right about the me-me-me and it makes me sick. People will kill each other for a dollar!!
And George showed SO MUCH experience and wisdom when he first took office, right?????....sm
He got in on Daddy's coat tails and by and large had Daddy's former administration aides and cabinet members calling the shots and try to cover his idiocy. When is everyone coming out of denial about this past administration?
Like you showed Bush? ROFL. Gimme a break.
Respect is EARNED, my friend, not given.
Good thing Cheney showed up on camera with his dire pronouncements
Fearmonger? Yep, every other day it was a red or an orange or something.........Cry wolf one too many times and no one believes you anymore.
When Obama said we can't give up our ideals for safety... they showed Bush's embarrassed face
His lame patriot act was being referred to.
Bush was sort of in national guard but never showed for the physical... that counts? Cheney was nev
duh?? ya'll?
She also posts regularly here. Who are you to say where she posts? nm
//
gourdpainter...
We just finished a study of Revelation at our church. In the part you were talking about, "one man rising to lead them" it also says he will be diverse from the rest. He will be well liked, and many people will come to believe he is a "messiah".
Read this site just for face value, and just tell me if it doesn't make you cringe, just a bit.
http://www.theprophecies.com/antichrist.html
I pray that we do get our hiney's raptured right out of here before everything really goes down.
Oh please, gourdpainter.
Are you insinuating that Christianity is the only religion that believes in basic human values? Do you really think that anyone who is not a Christian automatically condones raping, killing, stealing, lying, or anything like it? We all have rights in this country, even minorities!
So okay, put it under gourdpainter
I'll stand by what I say. LOL
Thank you, thank you, thank you, Gourdpainter!
This man and the running mate he has chosen (which I bet now he is regretting) scare me to death. I have never in my life witnessed so much lying, hypocrisy and lack of integrity that these two people have have shown. Anyone watching his face as he speaks would have to see the glaringly clear dishonesty of this man!
Gourdpainter, why do you believe that?
I am just wondering why you feel so sure that McCain is going to win...
I don't know, gourdpainter.............sm
why Wright is not being talked about in the political circles. My initial thought is the difference between him and Ayers or the others is that he calls himself a preacher/reverend. While I definitely agree with you as far as Wright's political statements from the pulpit, maybe it is that McCain and Palin have not jumped on him because they were made from a pulpit and they view that as "protected" in some way??? In other words, they as politicians are not supposed to bring God into politics, so maybe this is an off limits kind of subject.
I notice you keep stating that you don't want Palin as president. GP, she is not running for president; McCain is. And while the chance exists that he could die in office (not necessarily of evil intentions but rather due to age) and Palin could step into the presidency, I would rather have her there than Obama/Biden any day. I can assure you that Obama will be the final ruination of this country if he is elected.
I'm sorry you can't sleep at night. Maybe you need to rethink your vote and vote for McCain. I've noticed others on this board who have said they can sleep at night now knowing that they are voting for McCain. ;o)
Gourdpainter
Sorry I didn't answer! It was farrier day at my moms so I've been gone all afternoon.
I respect your opinion, and I understand where you are coming from. Honestly at this point all we can do is pray. There is just to much stuff I've seen of O that rubs me the wrong way. I just believe voting for Mccain is the lesser of two evils. Yes, it may be the same. But I'd rather endure 4 more years of the same and pray during those four years for a godly candidate to come about than to risk voting for someone who we really do not know about. That's just a big issue I have. We really still do not know who Obama is. We know who he is portrayed as, but there has not been enough time for us to know who he truly is and what he truly believes in.
This is my other big worry...if, God forbid, Obama gets assassinated, and Biden dies or whatever (his health isn't much better than Mccain's I'm pretty sure) then we have Pelosi. THAT is frightening. I would take Palin over Pelosi any day. And Biden could possibly misspeak his way right into a nuclear war. Of course I know your view on Palin so we won't go there... :)
Your right, Mccain is not a godly candidate. If the reason he left his wife is true, it's despicable. But you know what, he's apologized. And I'm sure he has asked forgiveness. We all do things we are not proud of. Obama lies until he is backed into a corner (such as Rev Wright) and then when he finally can't back up anymore he then says "oh I condemn what he said." Not good enough to me. I don't care what the man says, he did not sit in that church for almost 500 Sundays and never once hear Wright preach hate. Straight up, he lied. He has been saturated with this hate. Yes, I believe he will bring change. While we don't know if he is a terrorist, I firmly believe he is anti-American. I believe he wants to bring about a "New America". While we have things wrong with this country, we are still a great country when you get down to the nitty gritty and I don't think every facet of American life needs to be changed. I think that is what he believes. He has his head in the clouds. Just look at how he is now saying "ohh don't get too excited". Why did he promise all that at the beginning? To get the votes. To get people to decide on him, because you know the majority of people aren't going to change their minds now.
He's promising you more days off from school and more vending machines in the halls knowing he can't give them to you. He has people following him now like lemmings on a cliff.
Also, I feel like there are a lot of big red flags coming up from the Bible. I feel like we are going to be face to face with Jesus and he's going to say "I TRIED TO WARN YOU!"
I understand what you mean though, about God not telling you. Sometimes I wish he would just make me a neon sign :). Just make sure you sit still and listen, because if you're like me sometimes he may be shouting at you and you just can't hear him.
I encourage you to definitely take some time to yourself and just sit and talk with Him, and see what he puts on your heart.
I understand the appeal of Obama, I really do. As a 22-year-old college student, I feel like one of a few of my age group that isn't voting for him. I really liked him at first, but the more and more I read about his association with Wright, his view of the "typical white woman", his view on abortion, etc., I just feel like he is not the man who is going to lead our country back to God, and ultimately, that is what we need. Like I said, Mccain probably won't either, but I fear with Obama there may not be a chance to elect another Christian president. I fear that he will go as far as to quiet our preachers and to limit what we can say as Christians. If he doesn't personally, the democratic congress will, and I don't believe he will say no to them. That's one thing I like about Mccain, you know he will say no if need be. I just think Obama owes to many people. He didn't make it up the ladder this quick without a lot of help.
Well, it's back to work for me. Take it easy!
I think gourdpainter has.
.
i, gourdpainter...
I asked this question already a while back and nobody answered it.
So I guess, it must have something do to with the 'uterus', perhaps?
LOL !
Another invention of the Republicans to proof that they are right?
Thank you, gourdpainter.
/
Oh, gourdpainter....sm
I know for a fact, that you yourself usually possess what my grandpa used to call, "good ol' fashioned horse sense."
It just amazes me that you don't recognize it in someone else.
Your mind is already made up, so I don't think I can explain it to you.
Gourdpainter...........sm
And all the other nay-sayers.
About the post below concerning the audio interview with Obama on the energy issue, did you even listen to the audio that was presented?
Not only did I listen to it, I went to the source web site and listened. Here is the link if you want to check it out further. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=14&entry_id=32228
The entire interview was about 48 minutes long. It was Obama answering questions from several journalists on a number of issues. He was first questioned about energy at about 25:15 in the tape. The issue that was brought up in the post below that you called 'Horsefeathers' was discussed at about 40:30. I encourage you go listen for yourself and hear the words from the horse's mouth.
Other issues discussed along with the time markers for each discussion were:
Health care 10:38
Securities Industry 20:00
Iraq 29:18
Environment 39:55
Racial issues 42:24 (And this was a listener/reader question)
Voting system in the caucuses (sp): 46:09
Obama is, without doubt, a very intelligent man and eloquent speaker, but I fear he may be far too intelligent, possibly to the point that he cannot be reigned in if necessary, and that in combination with a Democratic House, Senate and Judiciary branch makes him a very dangerous man.
Wow Gourdpainter
you really opened the floodgates - LOL!
Well, gourdpainter, there is your
it says on this website!!! Believe me, I live further south than Arkansas and I wonder what they had to pay these idiots to do this. No one near where I live averages this stoopid! Big Bad had a lot of time on her hands to come up with this one!
hey gourdpainter -- was this a typo or not?
The ex-wife, scorned "pubically" -- was that what you really meant or did you mean publicly? If so, it's the best typo I've seen all day. If not, I'm still laughing!
Thanks -- I needed one today! 
Sam/Gourdpainter debate s/m
Somewhere down below I posted things I had AGAINST Obama. Sam replied. Now I can't find the thread........typical for this old-timer.
Sam, I noticed a lot of "McCain says" and "McCain calls for" in your reply. I say both candidates "say" and "call for." Let's reason here together. After his 25 years in the Congress do you think McCain doesn't have cronies in Congress and on Wall Street? Do you think he isn't indebted to monied people in Arizona? Likewise, Obama, do you think he doesn't have cronies in Congress and Wall Street AND in Chicago? Well...news flash. Sure he does. Do you REALLY think either candidate, regardless of what they "call for" in pre-election propaganda are really going to do anything to benefit the common working class Americans? I certainly do not.
I just finished reading the Wall Street report this morning and you know what I think? I think everyone had better get out their Bible and have a read of Revelations whether they want to honor it as God's Word or just history. It's all there as well as the end result. Yep, I think we had all better turn to God. He said if we would turn to Him he would deliver us and I believe HE is our only hope. Otherwise, what I see is China forclosing on our huge national debt and then skip the socialism, we'll go directly to communism and we won't pass go and we CERTAINLY won't collect $200. Another good read might be the fall of the Roman Empire.
I can't believe I'm still wasting my time railing about the state of this countries ills. No one will see that it is not DEMOCRATS or REPUBLICANS that are at the root of the problems, it's the AMERICAN people who can't get past party affiliation. No change will come until the American PEOPLE make it come.
gourdpainter, my question is, why is it
liberal, every person who openly denounces God and all moralities are pro Obama? I am not saying McCain is perfect, and I am sure there are Christians voting for Obama. I just cannot understand why so many atheist, nonbelievers, outspoken celebrities want Obama to be elected so desperately.
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