I agree, gourdpainter, to a point....
Posted By: sam on 2008-10-06
In Reply to: Sam/Gourdpainter debate s/m - gourdpainter
but one thing I DO know...Obama and a majority democrat congress mean socialism. There are no two ways about it. And I DON'T want socialism for America. So I would not vote for Obama, and if I vote for a third party and NOT McCain, that is a vote for Obama. I will NOT be a party to putting that man in the White House. No way, no how.
I am a registered Independent. I have not been a party faithful for several years. But I am concerned enough about Obama and his agenda that I am voting a straight Republican ticket for the FIRST time in my life. THAT is how much I DO NOT want him and his agenda for this country.
I agree with McCain on some things "he says." If he does them, fine. If he doesn't, we still don't get socialism. If McCain just gets elected and the status quo remains, we don't get socialism.
I don't want socialism. I don't know how much more clear I need to be about it.
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I know that Gourdpainter will not agree,
but part of the problem is the ridiculously high wages that American manufacturer employees get in contrast to the foreign manufacturers with plants her in the US, which is because of the unions. With higher wages comes higher overhead and higher prices. They cannot sell cars at competitive prices because their employees make too much money. It is unfortunate, but I think that a lower paying job is better than no job at all.
I sadly enough agree with you Gourdpainter
I think the ugliness has barely begun. Truth will out in the end, it always does.
I agree that Sam's and Gourdpainter's posts showed the differences (sm)
between the two candidates but I think you are absolutely clueless when it comes to your judgement. Sam's posts are always backed by facts. No one is her "follower." We who are voting for McCain are often grateful that she takes the time to find these facts and post them for all to see. While I can appreciate your admiration for Gourdpainter, your insults to Sam are completely unfounded and uncalled for. You Obama-backers are always looking for proof---show me some proof that Sam's posts are garbage. Proof please?
Gourdpainter, I agree with you. So do most people since Obama is ahead of McCain.
McCain doesn't have any solutions except trying to get Palin to tear down Obama with her big mouth.
I agree to a certain point.....
I found it loathsome that he abandoned his wife and children. I have also seen tears in his eyes when he recounts this and admits he abandoned the entire situation.
The problem is, when I watch Obama, he is never apologetic for his associations and NEVER fesses up to them. He just denies them as if they don't exist, when everyone knows they do. And even scarier to me, who will fill ALL THOSE thousand of positions he will appoint if he gets in the white house. I'll betcha 100 to 1 it will be Muslims, people you've never heard of before, questionable associations, questionable how they can even be in the white house cabinet because there will be BIG questions if they are even a real US citizen. You just hide and watch. It won't be pretty. That man feels no guilt for anything; why do you think he hung out with Ayers, Dohrn, Rezko, uses Pakistani roommates from college to do his fundraising from unknown sources overseas, came up with so much money to spend so much time in Muslim countries during his college years when he proclaims to have been broke. Too many questions that everyone refuses to demand an answer to.
At least McCain owns up to his past, unlike Obama. To hear him tell it, he's perfect in every way.
I agree with you to a point
however, there are laws against murder and to me...abortion is murder. I cannot stand by someone who would allow something like that to be considered okay by society. Yes, people have free will and they will have to live with that decision. However, if society is more willing to accept things like that it just seems like morals drop in society. What was once considered bad is no big deal. I feel that is the path that are country has started in and I don't like it.
I still don't understand why abortion isn't murder but a person who does something to a pregnant mother that causes her unborn child to die is considered murder and is punishable. A pregnant mother is killed and so is her unborn child and that is double homocide. The only difference is one fetus wasn't wanted by its parents and the other was. Other than that.....it is still murder in my eyes.
Here is my standing on this. I do not have a problem with the morning after pill. I think that is a great emergency contraceptive if a condom should fail or a rape should happen and no protection was used, etc. Do I want abortion to be totally illegal.....yes but the problem with that is you will still have illegal ones going on ending up in seriously hurt people because they may not be done properly, etc. If abortion is going to lbe egal, I think there should be guidelines. You only have such and such time to abort before it is considered murder. If you abort after that time frame, you can face charges of murder as well as any doctor who willingly performs the abortion knowing it is too late time frame wise.
I have no problem if the mother's life is in danger. That is it....in danger. I think that if an abortion fails, that infant has a right to live and should be protected. No late term abortions because that is murder. To have Obama want to legalize abortion with no guidelines....just go and abort because no one wants a baby as a punishment.....that is SO wrong and to allow that in our society is ridiculous.
In my opinion it will just cause more people to be even less cautious about their sexual practices and use abortion more as birth control and that isn't right. If more people are less worried about having a baby because abortions are so easy to get, etc.....I think it will cause a rise in STDs as well. JMO.
I agree with you to a point but
why did it have to come to a vote to begin with? Who decided it would come up for a vote? If it was the gay community to begin with, then they should honor the outcome, don't you think?
I saw Frasier's (can't think of his name right now) "brother" on The View yesterday and he's happy that his marriage will stay intact. I'm sure many others are also happy about it, too.
As for those that didn't jump on the bandwagon right away, well, what can I say? They missed the boat.
Then I agree wholeheartedly with your point...
I would like to see it also. I would like to see the declassified document from the CIA where Joe Wilson (Valerie Plame's husband) supposedly corroborates Bush's speech about Saddam trying to buy yellowcake from Niger. I am sure that is something the Democrats would rather not make public knowledge. I would also like to know what they think they have as proof on Bush. Not guess, not innuendo, but hard proof that he lied. And I think if they had that, they would go forward. There are just too many questions that would be raised that Congress themselves would have a hard time answering...and I don't think they want to open Pandora's box. That is why I think it is political posturing because they viscerally hate the man (the Dems). And I have NEVER understood the degree that goes to. All that being said...I agree. They should make it all public, every last bit. I just wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it.
I agree with the point that the children's
private lives should be left out of it, but as to being on stage, that is just showing family support for their parents. Two entirely different things.
Good point, I agree with that...nm
nm
I totally agree to a certain point
I believe we need stricter guides on the food that is being sold in our stores, however, I do not agree that our rights as citizens should be taken away to be able to grow our own vegetables in our own garden on our property. I think the people who go to farmers market and buy organic prefer that, and they should not have that right taken away from him. My understanding is that the company she is referring to as genetically altering the seeds so that the fruit it bears has no seeds, thus you have to continually buy more from them, and I understand this company is also trying to shut down all other seed companies. I may be wrong and I would have to do a bit more research.
But I agree our supermarkets need scrutiny on what food it sells in the store (where it's coming from), but I don't like anyone taking away my right to be able to grow my own tomatoes or squash or other veggies I want to in my own yard.
I agree and think at this point diplomacy is futile..nm
good point.....this one bans if you don't agree with them....or maybe this has stopped since the
.
Again my point is made - you just like arguing and bashing people that don't agree with you
Your bringing up a dead subject while shouting it at us. You started an abortion post on 8/25 and bashed everyone who didn't agree with you, and you were bashing people on 8/22 about the same subject. Everytime someone brought up their viewpoint you be arguing or bashing them. The point I (and others) are making is you keep bringing this up again and again and again and again and when people don't agree with you you bash them, then when they come back to say something you bash them even more. Then when we finally get a break and have new topics, you start another post about the abortion thing again. The abortion issue is getting tiring for all. We know what abortions are, how horrible they are, and we know how babies are made and the stages of their lives (we are MT's and all took the course) but you feel the need to keep it up and up and up and it's getting real old. Besides that it looks like you are posting under other names and then answering yourself.
I want to read people's opinions and questions of issues we are facing. Abortion is not one of them for most of us. Let it go and move on. What I am trying to say is that while I'd like to hear your viewpoints on other issues enough with the abortion and try and not be so argumentative all the time.
Yes, we all have the right to post things, but it looks like you are posting just for the sake of arguing and we're all getting tired of it.
So go ahead bash me some more.
gourdpainter...
We just finished a study of Revelation at our church. In the part you were talking about, "one man rising to lead them" it also says he will be diverse from the rest. He will be well liked, and many people will come to believe he is a "messiah".
Read this site just for face value, and just tell me if it doesn't make you cringe, just a bit.
http://www.theprophecies.com/antichrist.html
I pray that we do get our hiney's raptured right out of here before everything really goes down.
Oh please, gourdpainter.
Are you insinuating that Christianity is the only religion that believes in basic human values? Do you really think that anyone who is not a Christian automatically condones raping, killing, stealing, lying, or anything like it? We all have rights in this country, even minorities!
So okay, put it under gourdpainter
I'll stand by what I say. LOL
Thank you, thank you, thank you, Gourdpainter!
This man and the running mate he has chosen (which I bet now he is regretting) scare me to death. I have never in my life witnessed so much lying, hypocrisy and lack of integrity that these two people have have shown. Anyone watching his face as he speaks would have to see the glaringly clear dishonesty of this man!
Gourdpainter, why do you believe that?
I am just wondering why you feel so sure that McCain is going to win...
I don't know, gourdpainter.............sm
why Wright is not being talked about in the political circles. My initial thought is the difference between him and Ayers or the others is that he calls himself a preacher/reverend. While I definitely agree with you as far as Wright's political statements from the pulpit, maybe it is that McCain and Palin have not jumped on him because they were made from a pulpit and they view that as "protected" in some way??? In other words, they as politicians are not supposed to bring God into politics, so maybe this is an off limits kind of subject.
I notice you keep stating that you don't want Palin as president. GP, she is not running for president; McCain is. And while the chance exists that he could die in office (not necessarily of evil intentions but rather due to age) and Palin could step into the presidency, I would rather have her there than Obama/Biden any day. I can assure you that Obama will be the final ruination of this country if he is elected.
I'm sorry you can't sleep at night. Maybe you need to rethink your vote and vote for McCain. I've noticed others on this board who have said they can sleep at night now knowing that they are voting for McCain. ;o)
Gourdpainter
Sorry I didn't answer! It was farrier day at my moms so I've been gone all afternoon.
I respect your opinion, and I understand where you are coming from. Honestly at this point all we can do is pray. There is just to much stuff I've seen of O that rubs me the wrong way. I just believe voting for Mccain is the lesser of two evils. Yes, it may be the same. But I'd rather endure 4 more years of the same and pray during those four years for a godly candidate to come about than to risk voting for someone who we really do not know about. That's just a big issue I have. We really still do not know who Obama is. We know who he is portrayed as, but there has not been enough time for us to know who he truly is and what he truly believes in.
This is my other big worry...if, God forbid, Obama gets assassinated, and Biden dies or whatever (his health isn't much better than Mccain's I'm pretty sure) then we have Pelosi. THAT is frightening. I would take Palin over Pelosi any day. And Biden could possibly misspeak his way right into a nuclear war. Of course I know your view on Palin so we won't go there... :)
Your right, Mccain is not a godly candidate. If the reason he left his wife is true, it's despicable. But you know what, he's apologized. And I'm sure he has asked forgiveness. We all do things we are not proud of. Obama lies until he is backed into a corner (such as Rev Wright) and then when he finally can't back up anymore he then says "oh I condemn what he said." Not good enough to me. I don't care what the man says, he did not sit in that church for almost 500 Sundays and never once hear Wright preach hate. Straight up, he lied. He has been saturated with this hate. Yes, I believe he will bring change. While we don't know if he is a terrorist, I firmly believe he is anti-American. I believe he wants to bring about a "New America". While we have things wrong with this country, we are still a great country when you get down to the nitty gritty and I don't think every facet of American life needs to be changed. I think that is what he believes. He has his head in the clouds. Just look at how he is now saying "ohh don't get too excited". Why did he promise all that at the beginning? To get the votes. To get people to decide on him, because you know the majority of people aren't going to change their minds now.
He's promising you more days off from school and more vending machines in the halls knowing he can't give them to you. He has people following him now like lemmings on a cliff.
Also, I feel like there are a lot of big red flags coming up from the Bible. I feel like we are going to be face to face with Jesus and he's going to say "I TRIED TO WARN YOU!"
I understand what you mean though, about God not telling you. Sometimes I wish he would just make me a neon sign :). Just make sure you sit still and listen, because if you're like me sometimes he may be shouting at you and you just can't hear him.
I encourage you to definitely take some time to yourself and just sit and talk with Him, and see what he puts on your heart.
I understand the appeal of Obama, I really do. As a 22-year-old college student, I feel like one of a few of my age group that isn't voting for him. I really liked him at first, but the more and more I read about his association with Wright, his view of the "typical white woman", his view on abortion, etc., I just feel like he is not the man who is going to lead our country back to God, and ultimately, that is what we need. Like I said, Mccain probably won't either, but I fear with Obama there may not be a chance to elect another Christian president. I fear that he will go as far as to quiet our preachers and to limit what we can say as Christians. If he doesn't personally, the democratic congress will, and I don't believe he will say no to them. That's one thing I like about Mccain, you know he will say no if need be. I just think Obama owes to many people. He didn't make it up the ladder this quick without a lot of help.
Well, it's back to work for me. Take it easy!
I think gourdpainter has.
.
i, gourdpainter...
I asked this question already a while back and nobody answered it.
So I guess, it must have something do to with the 'uterus', perhaps?
LOL !
Another invention of the Republicans to proof that they are right?
Thank you, gourdpainter.
/
Oh, gourdpainter....sm
I know for a fact, that you yourself usually possess what my grandpa used to call, "good ol' fashioned horse sense."
It just amazes me that you don't recognize it in someone else.
Your mind is already made up, so I don't think I can explain it to you.
Gourdpainter...........sm
And all the other nay-sayers.
About the post below concerning the audio interview with Obama on the energy issue, did you even listen to the audio that was presented?
Not only did I listen to it, I went to the source web site and listened. Here is the link if you want to check it out further. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=14&entry_id=32228
The entire interview was about 48 minutes long. It was Obama answering questions from several journalists on a number of issues. He was first questioned about energy at about 25:15 in the tape. The issue that was brought up in the post below that you called 'Horsefeathers' was discussed at about 40:30. I encourage you go listen for yourself and hear the words from the horse's mouth.
Other issues discussed along with the time markers for each discussion were:
Health care 10:38
Securities Industry 20:00
Iraq 29:18
Environment 39:55
Racial issues 42:24 (And this was a listener/reader question)
Voting system in the caucuses (sp): 46:09
Obama is, without doubt, a very intelligent man and eloquent speaker, but I fear he may be far too intelligent, possibly to the point that he cannot be reigned in if necessary, and that in combination with a Democratic House, Senate and Judiciary branch makes him a very dangerous man.
Wow Gourdpainter
you really opened the floodgates - LOL!
Well, gourdpainter, there is your
it says on this website!!! Believe me, I live further south than Arkansas and I wonder what they had to pay these idiots to do this. No one near where I live averages this stoopid! Big Bad had a lot of time on her hands to come up with this one!
hey gourdpainter -- was this a typo or not?
The ex-wife, scorned "pubically" -- was that what you really meant or did you mean publicly? If so, it's the best typo I've seen all day. If not, I'm still laughing!
Thanks -- I needed one today! 
Sam/Gourdpainter debate s/m
Somewhere down below I posted things I had AGAINST Obama. Sam replied. Now I can't find the thread........typical for this old-timer.
Sam, I noticed a lot of "McCain says" and "McCain calls for" in your reply. I say both candidates "say" and "call for." Let's reason here together. After his 25 years in the Congress do you think McCain doesn't have cronies in Congress and on Wall Street? Do you think he isn't indebted to monied people in Arizona? Likewise, Obama, do you think he doesn't have cronies in Congress and Wall Street AND in Chicago? Well...news flash. Sure he does. Do you REALLY think either candidate, regardless of what they "call for" in pre-election propaganda are really going to do anything to benefit the common working class Americans? I certainly do not.
I just finished reading the Wall Street report this morning and you know what I think? I think everyone had better get out their Bible and have a read of Revelations whether they want to honor it as God's Word or just history. It's all there as well as the end result. Yep, I think we had all better turn to God. He said if we would turn to Him he would deliver us and I believe HE is our only hope. Otherwise, what I see is China forclosing on our huge national debt and then skip the socialism, we'll go directly to communism and we won't pass go and we CERTAINLY won't collect $200. Another good read might be the fall of the Roman Empire.
I can't believe I'm still wasting my time railing about the state of this countries ills. No one will see that it is not DEMOCRATS or REPUBLICANS that are at the root of the problems, it's the AMERICAN people who can't get past party affiliation. No change will come until the American PEOPLE make it come.
gourdpainter, my question is, why is it
liberal, every person who openly denounces God and all moralities are pro Obama? I am not saying McCain is perfect, and I am sure there are Christians voting for Obama. I just cannot understand why so many atheist, nonbelievers, outspoken celebrities want Obama to be elected so desperately.
In all fairness, gourdpainter,
I don't really think Obama is going to come right out and admit that he is friends with Ayers - that would spell disaster for his campaign and plans. I have learned I cannot trust what is fed to me, so I watch all of the stations, including Fox, and I read through tons of information on the internet and make up my own mind instead of letting the media make it up for me.
I will tell you, when this campaign first started, I was so excited to hear what he had to say about the issues and to think he has young kids, etc., etc., but the more I have researched (just facts with proof), I have decided that I cannot vote for this man. He is not who I believe will take America forward. His policies most definitely I don't agree with but I cannot accept a man whose character is questionable.
gourdpainter? You dont think you are just as
nm
Gourdpainter is right about the nonunion
employees getting better benefits when the union employees do. My husband works for the state and although he is not union eligible (middle management), his work class follows the same policy as the union employees. If the union employees get a raise or a benefit change, he gets the same.
My husband, however, is not protected by the union should any situations arise. I call him a "tagalong".
This post should be under gourdpainter.
x
sorry 'bout that GoUrdpainter!!! nm
.
Gourdpainter, what a copout!! lol
You have lectured people to go out and research for themselves when they asked you for links, and because not enough people responded on the board about Wright you think it is unfounded?? Good grief!! Google Jeremiah Wright and then listen to the TON of video on the man. Then watch Obama say "I never heard him say it" and then turn right around and say "well yes I heard controversial things." And when you are done with that, do some studying up on black liberation theology, which the church that he attended for 20 years is based on. The same church that honored Louis Farrakhan...you know...Farrakhan of Nation of Islam? The one who calls Obama the messiah? That should keep you busy for a LONG time. If you are really interested in the truth, do the work yourself, like you invite others to do. Its not like there is not TONS of information out there.
Not like you to cop out like that... :-)
Gourdpainter, on this one I'm totally with you.
x
You're right, gourdpainter............sm
Nor has there been an Asian American president or Mexican American president. I stopped voting by party or any other criteria than a candidate's platform, policies and what I perceived his character to be a long time ago. If a black candidate were running that had the qualifications I personally look for in a president (or any other elected office, for that matter) I would vote for him in a heartbeat. Obama just is not that person, but there may be one in the future as he has broken the ground for a black man to run.
Lobster on the way, gourdpainter!
:)
gourdpainter -- I just don't understand
you say you want reasons why you should vote for McCain instead of Obama. Yet, when anyone gives you that, as pointedly as above, you deny it. If you want to vote for Obama, that's your choice and by all means you should, but don't ask for something only to turn away from it when it's presented to you. Everything that has been presented to you as "verifiable" evidence of the man's connections or political goals, you write off as "propaganda". What more do you want, the man himself to tell you that he is connected to terrorists, that he wants to turn America into a socialist country, that he is Muslim? If that's what you're looking for, you won't find it until it's too late.
To Gourdpainter: I want to personally s/m
thank you for your many insightful posts on this board during this whole election process. Your posts along with sam's posts have very accurately paralleled the glaring differences between these two candidates, yours being ones of depth of knowledge, integrity, tolerance and a true desire for change for the better, whereas, the other one's posts have been largely based on garbage gleaned from questionable websites, blogs and other biased sources that have accomplished nothing other than to incite hatred and intolerance in support of a candidate who has based his whole campaign on filthy lies and evil smear tactics in pathetic attempts to discredit his opponent who has risen above this display of low-down politics.
So, my hat's off to you, Gourdpainter, for setting an exemplary example for all of us to aspire to!! 
Careful gourdpainter -- you may soon
nm
I think I'm a gourdpainter sheeple
Gourdpainter, can I be your best friend?
Just kidding... But I like the way you post. I've found you far more interesting than any others on this board that use monikers. I don't use a moniker because I don't feel the need to, but I also agree to please let this man have some dignity while he mourns his grandmother.
No President will be able to make any changes overnight. The President is only as smart as the people around him.
Obama has stated again and again that it will not be easy but that we all must come together. I have not heard that once from the RNC, but only comments to bash a man because he may have a few beliefs that are different. He has a beautiful family (without all of the skeletons) and he does not plan for Americans to lose jobs but rather to make more jobs here and give tax credits to companies who hire people right here in the USA. He does have 2 daughters that will need an education and to prosper on American soil; does anyone not see that or is it just me?
gourdpainter? Did you chase HER away, too?
I think BB has a point here in that the main point on the board is political discussion, and let'
face it, there is SO MUCH going on right now, changes, problems, disasters, and so much debate on what should/could be done, but so many tims the political discussion disintegrates in a finger-pointing, name-calling exercise, spouting religion all over the place. Yeah, our spiritual beliefs are dearly held and we would all strive to be the best we can be, and do whatever we can whatever the ideology is, but sometimes I wonder, since we have a board EXPRESSLY for Faith isuues, where relgious debates/discussions/forums, etc are welcome, why does THIS board have to be turned into RELIGION BOARD PART II, especially if one ideology wants to dominate or ridicule/condemn those who come on here for lively inteligent discussion, debate of issues in Congress and in our lives, and just want their beliefs held separately? CNN is not EWTN or any other Christian network, and there are constant informative, bright, lively, balanced discussions from all over the political spectrum on the credentialed news stations, as well as C-Span, but they are not constantly hiding behind a cross, rosary, bible, star of David, or whatever....can we not strive to do the same and put religious debate on the Faith board?? Just a thought to ponder, MHO, it might work beter, who knows?
Sorry, gourdpainter....the Democrats are primarily....
responsible for the present situation. It is all there in black and white. Republicans do share some of the blame for not supporting McCain when he told them what was going to happen...I will give you that. But the CEOs, the ones who robbed Fannie blind...Democrats. Shielded by Democrats in Congress. Now I don't say they knew this was going to happen...but I believe they knew it could...and enriched themselves anyway. I do realize that if they had been Republicans they probably would have done the same thing...but the fact is, they weren't.
And I am not a member of either of the parties. I believe they have both strayed way away from the originals. And John McCain is the only one talking about cleaning up that mess in Washington. And I believe he WILL try. We gotta start somewhere.
Thanks gourdpainter...the cut and paste worked. nm
nm
Sounds like gourdpainter has a crush on herself.
xx
good morning, gourdpainter
another day, another pub.
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