Hey JTBB - I agree with you for once in a long time - see message
Posted By: just me on 2009-05-28
In Reply to: Normally I would have sympathy for these people...(sm) - Just the big bad
Too many posts to reply to so I'll reply here - I read the article. This is not a once in awhile family gathering, BBQ or picnic. This is weekly business meeting. Yes, that's right - business. Religion is a business. If you just had a few people every once in awhile coming to your house that would be one thing, but the article stated they have regular meetings in the home. I think the person who wrote the article did a little bit of "fibbing" with saying they were asked if they say "praise the lord" and if they pray. Could have happened, but I highly doubt it (again that's JMO). The concern the county has is that the home is being used as a business without a business permit. What they are doing is something that should be held in churches - which by the way ALL churches should be taxed seeing as they are all businesses.
I do agree very much with your assessment that these are the same people trying to take away the rights of the LGBT community. It does seem to be a one-way avenue. For the most part all the communities I have lived in the Christians want their rights, but they are also the first to want to remove the rights of other groups if they don't coincide with their beliefs.
If religious people want to have a small gathering in their home that's fine, but bringing a congregation of people into your home is a business, especially if it is on a regular basis.
People have bible meetings all the time in their own homes, but they don't have them on a regular basis and they don't have large groups making them stand out. They should keep their religious assemblies where it belongs - in the churches - and because its a business it should be taxed.
One other note is that the article mentioned what about tupperware parties or baseball games. Well those are not regular business meeetings going on.
I am sick of the hypocracy they have. I'm tired of hearing about "poor us, we can't pray, we can't do this, we can't do that, their trying to take away our rights". Yet everytime when I hear what is really going on I find the story has been exagerated to fit the "poor us" philosophy. Good example is this story. It started out with "poor us, we can pray in our own homes", when the truth comes out they are holding regular business meetings with their congregation meeting at their home residence. Two entirely different things.
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We have been saying this on the C board a long time. Agree. NM
...
I agree, this fact was suspected long time before Adam admitted. to it,
and this might even have been - unjustified - the reason why Adam, by far the best singer in the group, came in 2nd place.
You'll be waiting a long, long time, then, cuz she's going to do
He died a long, long time ago! (If he was ever
Don't force your beliefs on others. It further devalues your faith in the eyes of others.
JTBB doesn't have time for such things...too busy
xx
That's just how it is and how it has been for a long time.
Doesn't seem to be anything we can do about it. As someone has said, it's a privately owned board and the political alliance appears to be very right-wing evangelical Christian. The Religion board used to be even worse than the Politics board until it got renamed Christian (now at least it's named for what it really is). I don't even look at that board anymore.
This has been around a long time. sm
How and why someone would assemble WTC and the flight victims this way is beyond me. Oh well, to each his own, but I am thinking SOMEONE has a little too much time on their hands!
This is long, but when you have time...
read this with an open mind. Do not think about what any media person or pundit or anyone else has said about anything to do with the campaign. I will not even share what I think. In fact, do not think about the person who said them, just think about the message.
*****
PHILADELPHIA - "We the people, in order to form a more perfect union."
Two hundred and twenty one years ago, in a hall that still stands across the street, a group of men gathered and, with these simple words, launched America's improbable experiment in democracy. Farmers and scholars; statesmen and patriots who had traveled across an ocean to escape tyranny and persecution finally made real their declaration of independence at a Philadelphia convention that lasted through the spring of 1787.
The document they produced was eventually signed but ultimately unfinished. It was stained by this nation's original sin of slavery, a question that divided the colonies and brought the convention to a stalemate until the founders chose to allow the slave trade to continue for at least twenty more years, and to leave any final resolution to future generations.
Of course, the answer to the slavery question was already embedded within our Constitution - a Constitution that had at is very core the ideal of equal citizenship under the law; a Constitution that promised its people liberty, and justice, and a union that could be and should be perfected over time.
And yet words on a parchment would not be enough to deliver slaves from bondage, or provide men and women of every color and creed their full rights and obligations as citizens of the United States. What would be needed were Americans in successive generations who were willing to do their part - through protests and struggle, on the streets and in the courts, through a civil war and civil disobedience and always at great risk - to narrow that gap between the promise of our ideals and the reality of their time.
This was one of the tasks we set forth at the beginning of this campaign - to continue the long march of those who came before us, a march for a more just, more equal, more free, more caring and more prosperous America. I chose to run for the presidency at this moment in history because I believe deeply that we cannot solve the challenges of our time unless we solve them together - unless we perfect our union by understanding that we may have different stories, but we hold common hopes; that we may not look the same and we may not have come from the same place, but we all want to move in the same direction - towards a better future for of children and our grandchildren.
This belief comes from my unyielding faith in the decency and generosity of the American people. But it also comes from my own American story.
I am the son of a black man from Kenya and a white woman from Kansas. I was raised with the help of a white grandfather who survived a Depression to serve in Patton's Army during World War II and a white grandmother who worked on a bomber assembly line at Fort Leavenworth while he was overseas. I've gone to some of the best schools in America and lived in one of the world's poorest nations. I am married to a black American who carries within her the blood of slaves and slaveowners - an inheritance we pass on to our two precious daughters. I have brothers, sisters, nieces, nephews, uncles and cousins, of every race and every hue, scattered across three continents, and for as long as I live, I will never forget that in no other country on Earth is my story even possible.
It's a story that hasn't made me the most conventional candidate. But it is a story that has seared into my genetic makeup the idea that this nation is more than the sum of its parts - that out of many, we are truly one.
Throughout the first year of this campaign, against all predictions to the contrary, we saw how hungry the American people were for this message of unity. Despite the temptation to view my candidacy through a purely racial lens, we won commanding victories in states with some of the whitest populations in the country. In South Carolina, where the Confederate Flag still flies, we built a powerful coalition of African Americans and white Americans.
This is not to say that race has not been an issue in the campaign. At various stages in the campaign, some commentators have deemed me either "too black" or "not black enough." We saw racial tensions bubble to the surface during the week before the South Carolina primary. The press has scoured every exit poll for the latest evidence of racial polarization, not just in terms of white and black, but black and brown as well.
And yet, it has only been in the last couple of weeks that the discussion of race in this campaign has taken a particularly divisive turn.
On one end of the spectrum, we've heard the implication that my candidacy is somehow an exercise in affirmative action; that it's based solely on the desire of wide-eyed liberals to purchase racial reconciliation on the cheap. On the other end, we've heard my former pastor, Reverend Jeremiah Wright, use incendiary language to express views that have the potential not only to widen the racial divide, but views that denigrate both the greatness and the goodness of our nation; that rightly offend white and black alike.
I have already condemned, in unequivocal terms, the statements of Reverend Wright that have caused such controversy. For some, nagging questions remain. Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes. Did I strongly disagree with many of his political views? Absolutely - just as I'm sure many of you have heard remarks from your pastors, priests, or rabbis with which you strongly disagreed.
But the remarks that have caused this recent firestorm weren't simply controversial. They weren't simply a religious leader's effort to speak out against perceived injustice. Instead, they expressed a profoundly distorted view of this country - a view that sees white racism as endemic, and that elevates what is wrong with America above all that we know is right with America; a view that sees the conflicts in the Middle East as rooted primarily in the actions of stalwart allies like Israel, instead of emanating from the perverse and hateful ideologies of radical Islam.
As such, Reverend Wright's comments were not only wrong but divisive, divisive at a time when we need unity; racially charged at a time when we need to come together to solve a set of monumental problems - two wars, a terrorist threat, a falling economy, a chronic health care crisis and potentially devastating climate change; problems that are neither black or white or Latino or Asian, but rather problems that confront us all.
Given my background, my politics, and my professed values and ideals, there will no doubt be those for whom my statements of condemnation are not enough. Why associate myself with Reverend Wright in the first place, they may ask? Why not join another church? And I confess that if all that I knew of Reverend Wright were the snippets of those sermons that have run in an endless loop on the television and You Tube, or if Trinity United Church of Christ conformed to the caricatures being peddled by some commentators, there is no doubt that I would react in much the same way
But the truth is, that isn't all that I know of the man. The man I met more than twenty years ago is a man who helped introduce me to my Christian faith, a man who spoke to me about our obligations to love one another; to care for the sick and lift up the poor. He is a man who served his country as a U.S. Marine; who has studied and lectured at some of the finest universities and seminaries in the country, and who for over thirty years led a church that serves the community by doing God's work here on Earth - by housing the homeless, ministering to the needy, providing day care services and scholarships and prison ministries, and reaching out to those suffering from HIV/AIDS.
In my first book, Dreams From My Father, I described the experience of my first service at Trinity:
"People began to shout, to rise from their seats and clap and cry out, a forceful wind carrying the reverend's voice up into the rafters….And in that single note - hope! - I heard something else; at the foot of that cross, inside the thousands of churches across the city, I imagined the stories of ordinary black people merging with the stories of David and Goliath, Moses and Pharaoh, the Christians in the lion's den, Ezekiel's field of dry bones. Those stories - of survival, and freedom, and hope - became our story, my story; the blood that had spilled was our blood, the tears our tears; until this black church, on this bright day, seemed once more a vessel carrying the story of a people into future generations and into a larger world. Our trials and triumphs became at once unique and universal, black and more than black; in chronicling our journey, the stories and songs gave us a means to reclaim memories that we didn't need to feel shame about…memories that all people might study and cherish - and with which we could start to rebuild."
That has been my experience at Trinity. Like other predominantly black churches across the country, Trinity embodies the black community in its entirety - the doctor and the welfare mom, the model student and the former gang-banger. Like other black churches, Trinity's services are full of raucous laughter and sometimes bawdy humor. They are full of dancing, clapping, screaming and shouting that may seem jarring to the untrained ear. The church contains in full the kindness and cruelty, the fierce intelligence and the shocking ignorance, the struggles and successes, the love and yes, the bitterness and bias that make up the black experience in America.
And this helps explain, perhaps, my relationship with Reverend Wright. As imperfect as he may be, he has been like family to me. He strengthened my faith, officiated my wedding, and baptized my children. Not once in my conversations with him have I heard him talk about any ethnic group in derogatory terms, or treat whites with whom he interacted with anything but courtesy and respect. He contains within him the contradictions - the good and the bad - of the community that he has served diligently for so many years.
I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community. I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother - a woman who helped raise me, a woman who sacrificed again and again for me, a woman who loves me as much as she loves anything in this world, but a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street, and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe.
These people are a part of me. And they are a part of America, this country that I love.
Some will see this as an attempt to justify or excuse comments that are simply inexcusable. I can assure you it is not. I suppose the politically safe thing would be to move on from this episode and just hope that it fades into the woodwork. We can dismiss Reverend Wright as a crank or a demagogue, just as some have dismissed Geraldine Ferraro, in the aftermath of her recent statements, as harboring some deep-seated racial bias.
But race is an issue that I believe this nation cannot afford to ignore right now. We would be making the same mistake that Reverend Wright made in his offending sermons about America - to simplify and stereotype and amplify the negative to the point that it distorts reality.
The fact is that the comments that have been made and the issues that have surfaced over the last few weeks reflect the complexities of race in this country that we've never really worked through - a part of our union that we have yet to perfect. And if we walk away now, if we simply retreat into our respective corners, we will never be able to come together and solve challenges like health care, or education, or the need to find good jobs for every American.
Understanding this reality requires a reminder of how we arrived at this point. As William Faulkner once wrote, "The past isn't dead and buried. In fact, it isn't even past." We do not need to recite here the history of racial injustice in this country. But we do need to remind ourselves that so many of the disparities that exist in the African-American community today can be directly traced to inequalities passed on from an earlier generation that suffered under the brutal legacy of slavery and Jim Crow.
Segregated schools were, and are, inferior schools; we still haven't fixed them, fifty years after Brown v. Board of Education, and the inferior education they provided, then and now, helps explain the pervasive achievement gap between today's black and white students.
Legalized discrimination - where blacks were prevented, often through violence, from owning property, or loans were not granted to African-American business owners, or black homeowners could not access FHA mortgages, or blacks were excluded from unions, or the police force, or fire departments - meant that black families could not amass any meaningful wealth to bequeath to future generations. That history helps explain the wealth and income gap between black and white, and the concentrated pockets of poverty that persists in so many of today's urban and rural communities.
A lack of economic opportunity among black men, and the shame and frustration that came from not being able to provide for one's family, contributed to the erosion of black families - a problem that welfare policies for many years may have worsened. And the lack of basic services in so many urban black neighborhoods - parks for kids to play in, police walking the beat, regular garbage pick-up and building code enforcement - all helped create a cycle of violence, blight and neglect that continue to haunt us.
This is the reality in which Reverend Wright and other African-Americans of his generation grew up. They came of age in the late fifties and early sixties, a time when segregation was still the law of the land and opportunity was systematically constricted. What's remarkable is not how many failed in the face of discrimination, but rather how many men and women overcame the odds; how many were able to make a way out of no way for those like me who would come after them.
But for all those who scratched and clawed their way to get a piece of the American Dream, there were many who didn't make it - those who were ultimately defeated, in one way or another, by discrimination. That legacy of defeat was passed on to future generations - those young men and increasingly young women who we see standing on street corners or languishing in our prisons, without hope or prospects for the future. Even for those blacks who did make it, questions of race, and racism, continue to define their worldview in fundamental ways. For the men and women of Reverend Wright's generation, the memories of humiliation and doubt and fear have not gone away; nor has the anger and the bitterness of those years. That anger may not get expressed in public, in front of white co-workers or white friends. But it does find voice in the barbershop or around the kitchen table. At times, that anger is exploited by politicians, to gin up votes along racial lines, or to make up for a politician's own failings.
And occasionally it finds voice in the church on Sunday morning, in the pulpit and in the pews. The fact that so many people are surprised to hear that anger in some of Reverend Wright's sermons simply reminds us of the old truism that the most segregated hour in American life occurs on Sunday morning. That anger is not always productive; indeed, all too often it distracts attention from solving real problems; it keeps us from squarely facing our own complicity in our condition, and prevents the African-American community from forging the alliances it needs to bring about real change. But the anger is real; it is powerful; and to simply wish it away, to condemn it without understanding its roots, only serves to widen the chasm of misunderstanding that exists between the races.
In fact, a similar anger exists within segments of the white community. Most working- and middle-class white Americans don't feel that they have been particularly privileged by their race. Their experience is the immigrant experience - as far as they're concerned, no one's handed them anything, they've built it from scratch. They've worked hard all their lives, many times only to see their jobs shipped overseas or their pension dumped after a lifetime of labor. They are anxious about their futures, and feel their dreams slipping away; in an era of stagnant wages and global competition, opportunity comes to be seen as a zero sum game, in which your dreams come at my expense. So when they are told to bus their children to a school across town; when they hear that an African American is getting an advantage in landing a good job or a spot in a good college because of an injustice that they themselves never committed; when they're told that their fears about crime in urban neighborhoods are somehow prejudiced, resentment builds over time.
Like the anger within the black community, these resentments aren't always expressed in polite company. But they have helped shape the political landscape for at least a generation. Anger over welfare and affirmative action helped forge the Reagan Coalition. Politicians routinely exploited fears of crime for their own electoral ends. Talk show hosts and conservative commentators built entire careers unmasking bogus claims of racism while dismissing legitimate discussions of racial injustice and inequality as mere political correctness or reverse racism.
Just as black anger often proved counterproductive, so have these white resentments distracted attention from the real culprits of the middle class squeeze - a corporate culture rife with inside dealing, questionable accounting practices, and short-term greed; a Washington dominated by lobbyists and special interests; economic policies that favor the few over the many. And yet, to wish away the resentments of white Americans, to label them as misguided or even racist, without recognizing they are grounded in legitimate concerns - this too widens the racial divide, and blocks the path to understanding.
This is where we are right now. It's a racial stalemate we've been stuck in for years. Contrary to the claims of some of my critics, black and white, I have never been so naïve as to believe that we can get beyond our racial divisions in a single election cycle, or with a single candidacy - particularly a candidacy as imperfect as my own.
But I have asserted a firm conviction - a conviction rooted in my faith in God and my faith in the American people - that working together we can move beyond some of our old racial wounds, and that in fact we have no choice is we are to continue on the path of a more perfect union.
For the African-American community, that path means embracing the burdens of our past without becoming victims of our past. It means continuing to insist on a full measure of justice in every aspect of American life. But it also means binding our particular grievances - for better health care, and better schools, and better jobs - to the larger aspirations of all Americans -- the white woman struggling to break the glass ceiling, the white man whose been laid off, the immigrant trying to feed his family. And it means taking full responsibility for own lives - by demanding more from our fathers, and spending more time with our children, and reading to them, and teaching them that while they may face challenges and discrimination in their own lives, they must never succumb to despair or cynicism; they must always believe that they can write their own destiny.
Ironically, this quintessentially American - and yes, conservative - notion of self-help found frequent expression in Reverend Wright's sermons. But what my former pastor too often failed to understand is that embarking on a program of self-help also requires a belief that society can change.
The profound mistake of Reverend Wright's sermons is not that he spoke about racism in our society. It's that he spoke as if our society was static; as if no progress has been made; as if this country - a country that has made it possible for one of his own members to run for the highest office in the land and build a coalition of white and black; Latino and Asian, rich and poor, young and old -- is still irrevocably bound to a tragic past. But what we know -- what we have seen - is that America can change. That is true genius of this nation. What we have already achieved gives us hope - the audacity to hope - for what we can and must achieve tomorrow.
In the white community, the path to a more perfect union means acknowledging that what ails the African-American community does not just exist in the minds of black people; that the legacy of discrimination - and current incidents of discrimination, while less overt than in the past - are real and must be addressed. Not just with words, but with deeds - by investing in our schools and our communities; by enforcing our civil rights laws and ensuring fairness in our criminal justice system; by providing this generation with ladders of opportunity that were unavailable for previous generations. It requires all Americans to realize that your dreams do not have to come at the expense of my dreams; that investing in the health, welfare, and education of black and brown and white children will ultimately help all of America prosper.
In the end, then, what is called for is nothing more, and nothing less, than what all the world's great religions demand - that we do unto others as we would have them do unto us. Let us be our brother's keeper, Scripture tells us. Let us be our sister's keeper. Let us find that common stake we all have in one another, and let our politics reflect that spirit as well.
For we have a choice in this country. We can accept a politics that breeds division, and conflict, and cynicism. We can tackle race only as spectacle - as we did in the OJ trial - or in the wake of tragedy, as we did in the aftermath of Katrina - or as fodder for the nightly news. We can play Reverend Wright's sermons on every channel, every day and talk about them from now until the election, and make the only question in this campaign whether or not the American people think that I somehow believe or sympathize with his most offensive words. We can pounce on some gaffe by a Hillary supporter as evidence that she's playing the race card, or we can speculate on whether white men will all flock to John McCain in the general election regardless of his policies.
We can do that.
But if we do, I can tell you that in the next election, we'll be talking about some other distraction. And then another one. And then another one. And nothing will change.
That is one option. Or, at this moment, in this election, we can come together and say, "Not this time." This time we want to talk about the crumbling schools that are stealing the future of black children and white children and Asian children and Hispanic children and Native American children. This time we want to reject the cynicism that tells us that these kids can't learn; that those kids who don't look like us are somebody else's problem. The children of America are not those kids, they are our kids, and we will not let them fall behind in a 21st century economy. Not this time.
This time we want to talk about how the lines in the Emergency Room are filled with whites and blacks and Hispanics who do not have health care; who don't have the power on their own to overcome the special interests in Washington, but who can take them on if we do it together.
This time we want to talk about the shuttered mills that once provided a decent life for men and women of every race, and the homes for sale that once belonged to Americans from every religion, every region, every walk of life. This time we want to talk about the fact that the real problem is not that someone who doesn't look like you might take your job; it's that the corporation you work for will ship it overseas for nothing more than a profit.
This time we want to talk about the men and women of every color and creed who serve together, and fight together, and bleed together under the same proud flag. We want to talk about how to bring them home from a war that never should've been authorized and never should've been waged, and we want to talk about how we'll show our patriotism by caring for them, and their families, and giving them the benefits they have earned.
I would not be running for President if I didn't believe with all my heart that this is what the vast majority of Americans want for this country. This union may never be perfect, but generation after generation has shown that it can always be perfected. And today, whenever I find myself feeling doubtful or cynical about this possibility, what gives me the most hope is the next generation - the young people whose attitudes and beliefs and openness to change have already made history in this election.
There is one story in particularly that I'd like to leave you with today - a story I told when I had the great honor of speaking on Dr. King's birthday at his home church, Ebenezer Baptist, in Atlanta.
There is a young, twenty-three year old white woman named Ashley Baia who organized for our campaign in Florence, South Carolina. She had been working to organize a mostly African-American community since the beginning of this campaign, and one day she was at a roundtable discussion where everyone went around telling their story and why they were there.
And Ashley said that when she was nine years old, her mother got cancer. And because she had to miss days of work, she was let go and lost her health care. They had to file for bankruptcy, and that's when Ashley decided that she had to do something to help her mom.
She knew that food was one of their most expensive costs, and so Ashley convinced her mother that what she really liked and really wanted to eat more than anything else was mustard and relish sandwiches. Because that was the cheapest way to eat.
She did this for a year until her mom got better, and she told everyone at the roundtable that the reason she joined our campaign was so that she could help the millions of other children in the country who want and need to help their parents too.
Now Ashley might have made a different choice. Perhaps somebody told her along the way that the source of her mother's problems were blacks who were on welfare and too lazy to work, or Hispanics who were coming into the country illegally. But she didn't. She sought out allies in her fight against injustice.
Anyway, Ashley finishes her story and then goes around the room and asks everyone else why they're supporting the campaign. They all have different stories and reasons. Many bring up a specific issue. And finally they come to this elderly black man who's been sitting there quietly the entire time. And Ashley asks him why he's there. And he does not bring up a specific issue. He does not say health care or the economy. He does not say education or the war. He does not say that he was there because of Barack Obama. He simply says to everyone in the room, "I am here because of Ashley."
"I'm here because of Ashley." By itself, that single moment of recognition between that young white girl and that old black man is not enough. It is not enough to give health care to the sick, or jobs to the jobless, or education to our children.
But it is where we start. It is where our union grows stronger. And as so many generations have come to realize over the course of the two-hundred and twenty one years since a band of patriots signed that document in Philadelphia, that is where the perfection begins.
-Barack Obama
March 18, 2008
It's been out there for a long time
The LA Times (just one of the papers) told its bloggers to not touch this story. The rest of the media did the same. The Enquirer talked about this last November. As things come out in just this one story, everyone reading this should question their news providers. No need to argue with me. Just let it play out if you don't believe me. Better yet, venture out on your own and find your own answers before flaming away. I give no one a free pass in the news biz.
I have been on the board a long time. SM
I saw someone on the conservative board being wished to die and burn in hell once. And there were a lot of other really bad things. Just because it isn't on the first page, doesn't mean it is there. The suggestion has been made time and time again, not to go to the board if you can't handle it, and you just keep doing it and then whine about it. What's up with that. I know I am going to get creamed when I come here. Have you ever ONCE heard me whine about it? I don't THINK so. There's the difference. The right is up to here with the left putting the military at risk with their appeasement behavior and we are not feeling like being nice about it. If you can't take it, stay away. It really is as simple as that.
Have watched him a long time....he says
xx
you will be waiting for a long time
x
yes, they will, but not for a long time, thanks to Mr. Bush. NM
x
If the big O had shown his BC a long time ago, this
nm
It will take a long time to get out of this mess.
That is for certain. I don't blame it on the unions though. My family (not my husbands) have been involved with unions for years and I see it as a positive thing.
I do have a problem with the higher-ups in these companies pulling in millions and using company jets, etc. for personal needs. Instead of laying off 50 factory workers they could do away with 5 high-paid workers. It's a well known statement that the higher up you get, the more you deligate and less work you do - in any company. The middle class is falling away and this needs to stop. Perfect example, the guy from GM (I think) making his way to ask for bailout money in the companies private jet. What kind of hotel you think these people have been staying in while fighting to stay out of bankruptcy - probably enough to pay a few factory workers wages for a month or two.
I remember a LONG time ago...
...(maybe 25 to 30 years), I didn't have much interest in politics at the time and saw one of their battles on TV.
The Palestinians were throwing ROCKS at the Israelis, and the Israelis were responding with MACHINE GUNS.
Didn't seem like a very fair fight at the time.
I guess some things never change. 
Four years is a very long time
in political terms and our memories seem to be pretty short. Politicians under suspicion of all types of malfeasance in office, some actual convicted felons are elected and re-elected. In 2012 much of her family turmoil may have been forgotten. If she keeps doing a good job for Alaska, does nothing stupid or illegal in the course of her official duties, I think she'll be okay in four years.
However, I believe that the mainstream media will make a point of hounding her every step for the next four years to make sure she is not in a position to run for national office. And I think that every problem she has, both personal and professional, will be blasted at us constantly as a reminder.
You will wait a long time for an apology for me. sm
In fact, I DEMAND an apology for falsely accusing any of us, after the moderator already told you, that we did not contact her. An article about Presidente Bush being clinically insane would definitely appear to violate the rules of the board, as posted REPEATEDLY. How dare you, sir! To quote your hero, Olberman.
I forgot it a long time ago......some things are
xx
Wow! That was the best thing I've seen in a long time
Thanks for sharing. Excellent!!!!
Right on, JTBB!! I agree
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I agree with both JTBB and cj.
Isn't there supposed to be a separation of church and state somewhere?
People can go to City Hall and get married without any church ceremony involved. More and more states now are coming to their senses and realizing that that ISN'T any of our business.
I wish them all well.
I agree with you too, JTBB.
Trying to defend the indefensible, yet grilling Obama for anything and everything. Talk about hypocrites!
Your posts are always very insightful and intelligent. Your intelligence scares the daylights out of them. Keep it up.
I agree with you too, JTBB.
Trying to defend the indefensible, yet grilling Obama for anything and everything.
Your posts are always very insightful and intelligent. Your intelligence scares the daylights out of them. Keep it up. There are some of us here who agree with and side with you.
Of course you agree JTBB....
What exactly did he do wrong by saying we live in a great country? You don't think you live in a great country? Then move!! He's been too patriotic? What garbage! He's a white guy who loves his country and that just eats away at ya!
Beautiful speech made a long time ago
No, this isn't a Ron Paul speech but he brought this speech to the attention of Congress, trying to make a point to their greedy sorry behinds. Just take the time to read it..... it is still true today.
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/articles/1111/not-yours-to-give/
We stopped reading your posts a long time ago!
Excellent post - best I've seen in a long time
Thanks for posting. I really wish more people would think like this. I just want someone qualified who will do what is best for the people of the country. It's just not happening and hasn't been for some time. Forget the name calling and who started it. All I know is it's broken and needs to be fixed and this is an excellent way to fix it.
Sorry, JTBB, I agree with Patty. I do not
believe everything what the Bible says, but I believe that homosexuality is wrong.
Not because it is written in the Bible, because it just IS. It always was and still is.
I do not hate them, I would never do something bad to them, I wish them all the best, but I just would not even socialize with them, especially as a mother with kids.
I heard work requirement mentioned a long time ago - nm
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I lost respect for the replican party a long time ago
When they ended up putting McCain in there that did it for me. I've lost all respect for both parties. Guess that's why I'm more into the Constitution party/Independent (depending on their viewpoints).
I can take an insult from people, and I can dish them out too, but sometimes I get just a little irrated.
I wish all parties would go away and people would vote on issues because of the issues and not because of which party suggested them. I wish people would accept blame when they are at fault and not blame it all on the other parties (both sides).
But one thing I am glad for is that if Obama is elected (in January after we hear how the electoral college voted), if he does become our next president then when he does give speeches he will have a nice strong voice and will not be saying "my friends" every 5 minutes.
Think I will take another sabatical from this board for awhile and focus on other things and get my mind off this nonsense.
Now THAT's the smartest thing I've read in a long time! nm
East Ohio Gas has been using natural gas to fuel their utility trucks for years - why hasn't that caught on? Makes ya wonder..............
Agree, JTBB. Dems keep their own standards low
nm
What if Obama didn't hang around with terrorists? What if he was not a long-time follower of a r
Then I would be voting for him.
That's right! As long as I agree, "I'm getting it" LOL
nm
A powerful message at a time we need it most
Click on the link below. I encourage all faiths to see this message. Thank you.
I don't know how I do my job ... so many typos on off time! Now vs not. No message
:)
Not even worth the time - see message
To respond to someone who knows nothing about how the stock market works.
Your just another liberal trying to cut down people that don't believe the way you do and somehow elevate yourself to the elite crowd. No thanks.
DH has made a career working in the stock market, researching, writing articles and providing companies with information on stocks, futures, etc. etc.
Loopey is all the glossy-eye O worshippers who wouldn't know the truth if it hit em in the face. They close their eyes and follow the voice of Farrahkan and others and don't question anything.
Time to come back to reality - see message
First and most importantly you do not have your facts correct. Sarah Palin and John McCain never once started any assassination conspiracies. I believe if anyone it was Hillary Clinton as the whole country heard her say it on camera.
Can you not grasp the difference between talks of assassination and candidates getting up talking in their rallies bringing up issues about their oponents (both sides). M/P got up and spoke about Obama's shady background, his friendships with the people like Ayers (a known terrorist), ACORN, Rev. Wright, etc, etc, etc. This list goes on and on and on. They spoke about Obama's viewpoints on abortion and his voting record. And Obama/Biden did the same thing. Whatever the supporters think up in their own minds is nobody's fault and you will have a few nuts who will say terrible things. But face reality - it is on both sides. There is so much hatred being spewed against Palin and her family for no good reason. You take one part of her interview and claim she can't make sentences but you ignore the fact that when Obama speaks it is usually with um, er, uh, um, um, er, um, etc. Then he can't even speak without pre-written speeches and teleprompters.
What I'm trying to say is there are violent people on both sides. You're coming off as though everyone who is supporting Obama/Biden are peaceful people that all just want to get along and have a big group hug. OH PLEASE!!! What that video showed you is that there are violent people who were trying to attack and overturn Palin's motorcade. And if they were successful they would have dragged her out and beaten her to death. Remember Reginald Denny? There are violent people are on both sides.
Also, the so called "thousands and thousands at a Palin rally" is a bunch of hooey. Never heard on tape and secret service reported they never once heard anyone yell anything against Obama that the Obama supporters are claiming they did. You can't make up something that didn't happen. Well actually you are making up something that didn't happen but it doesn't make it true.
As for Obama supporters "responding in kind". Oh please....the Obama suporters spewed nothing but hatred and lies against the M/P camp, AND we saw that in Obama's attack ads. As for negative campaigning. Both did negative campaigning. The first we saw of it was Obama. Look at what he did to Hillary.
As for the entire media/press...they were too busy having a love fest with Obama they got away from reporting news and kept spewing out their opinions. Lets talk about the liberal TV and radio stations (I watch them all). The liberal stations never reported one negative thing about Obama or Biden. Not one thing!!!!! Yet they kept badgering and spewing their lies and hatred against M/P - hence Chris Matthews and Keith Olberman were held back from reporting the main political stories - MSNBC & CNN lost a lot of viewers because of their vicious lies and not reporting facts anymmore.
As for saying Palin made a fool of herself. Well looks like you didn't even listen to anything she ever said. You probably only listened to what MSNBC or CNN reported about her. She has more experience as Governor than Obama has as a junior senator. And did more good things for her state and has around a 90% approval rating. And while she was doing this where was Obama? Sitting in a hate-filled sermons of Rev. Wright twice a month, having the terrorist Ayers jump start his political career. And hanging out with people like Rezco, Daley, and others. Truth is Palin was never given a fair chance by the media. Watching her interviewed by the people who wanted to see her fail was the worst journalism I have ever seen and those two (Couric and Gibson) should be fired. They have shown they have no journalistic qualities. Talk about getting a free ride - that's where they elevated Obama and Biden. Whenever Biden made a gaff (and BIG ones) they let him slide. They never gave Obama the tough questions. And they never reported on him saying there are 57 states. All that was conveniently pushed under the rug to try to be forgotten. So yes I found it very irresponsible that they treated Obama like he was king while they trashed Palin/McCain.
Like one poster said...if M/P won you would hear about assissination attempts coming from the Obama people. And still when I pull up article after article after article I am not seeing Palin supporting an assassination as you are trying to claim. I am however seeing Hillary's name come up time after time.
If you want to talk about behaving like a 5th grader look no further than the mirror. I am addressing issues and have been. I read all articles, listen to all TV/radio stations whether I agree or not. You're just repeating what I've already heard on the liberal stations and we all know they cannot be trusted to tell the truth. Maybe a bit of research would be a good thing. I've done it, but then again you have to have an open mind when reading articles.
Don't you get that ignoring facts shows how little you research, how biased one is hence none of your arguments are valid.
Creating conspiracy theories is not how America is going to be able to move forward...don't you get that?
I agree thanks. - see message
I always love hearing other people's opinions as long as they don't attack me personally and you don't. That's what makes us a great country - freedom! I'm glad you did submit the link with the awful "decoration". I think there is a point where people go to far. It's one thing to express your opinions, a whole other issue when you set up displays. If it's halloween and you want to hang something, how bout a ghost or a pirate (like in the movie Pirates of the Carribean), not political figures that could be our next leader and VP. As for the fraternity hanging Obama that is quite distasteful and the dean should bring whoever did it into the ofce and explain to them what is wrong about it. As for the Obama one sitting in front of the skeleton, I couldn't quite figure out the meaning of it, but upon looking at it you could tell it was from someone who hates Obama, and I'm sure lots of others knew the meaning. She should take it down either way. I say at Halloween political figures should be off limits in being used as "decorations". I too would like to keep talking with you, and I knew there was no argument in what you were saying, just bringing something equally revolting to my attention and I thank you for that.
I agree with you. (no message below)
i agree with you - no message
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I agree with you - see message
I posted above but I specifically wanted to reply to your message. There has been no racism. I've said it all along when democrats/liberals start losing an argument the next thing they do is scream at you that your a racist. They don't even know what nationality you are and they'll call you a racist simply because you didn't vote or agree with Obama.
On another note about your comment about Gov. Palin - the hatred is absolutely horrible and disgusting. I'm on this site and I see at least 20 to 30 posts bashing her and none of them are for issues of substance. None of them are because of choices or issues. It's all because of clothes, her hair, the way she looks, her glasses, all surface stuff - nothing of substance.
I am hoping this board would be for bring issues to the table and having a reasonable discussion. Not bashing someone because they don't vote or support who they do.
I agree too. No Message
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I agree with you so much - see message
There were too many issues going on. One day I'd be supporting Obama, the next day I'd support McCain. It's not a matter of "bipolar" or whatever insulting remark a crat is trying to do, it's a matter of each candidate had good and no so good attributes. Not voting for McCain had nothing to do with his age at all. In fact I probably defended him on that issue more than others. I wanted someone who had experience, not someone who was inexperienced and didn't know what they were doing. It came down to the last day just closing my eyes and voting. I was not sold on the whole Obama thing, but I did not see the whole congress thing coming. Next I know the dems have control of everything and now it's just getting worse every day. And it's not from past administrations, it from actions that are going on today, yesterday, and what is going to be happening in the future. I'm sorry to say I voted the way I did, but I thought if everything is bad we need someone reasurring and not calling us "my friends" in every other sentence. McCain did not build a lot of confidence I had in the party, and if it was Ron Paul or Mit Romney that had won it would have been a whole different story and I would have been more solid in my choice. I just remember what my DH keeps telling me. Who we see giving the speeches are not the "real" ones in charge (who have the power).
I have probably more conservative values than liberal (except on religious, abortion, and gay issues - then I lean more liberal), but as for financial and security issues I am most definitely conservative. I guess I probably should not have voted for Obama, but then again if I didn't maybe my vote would have been the one that McCain would have won with. HA HA HA.
Last thought is... I am helping my families who are unemployed and need money for food. Why would I want to give it to the people I don't know who refused to work for the handouts the liberals have promised them. If I want to support them it should be my decision and who, not forced on me. I don't depend on others to help me and they should not depend on us for their handout. I know that even a lot of people who supported Obama feel the same way. So at least I consider myself in good company. It's the kool-aid drinkers that give them a bad name.
And Mrs. B's attitude? She can keep it.
I do agree with you - see message
I do agree with you. Here are some of my points I'll try to explain why I'm mad... Superbowl party? Who cares everyone has them and yes I can see hot dogs, etc there. However, what makes me upset is that this is not a good time to be having weekly parties using taxpayers money to be funding the parties, and if he has a budget the same goes (but from the articles I'm reading, it's funded by taxpayers dollars). He needs to cut back on spending. Weekly parties for staff is unnecessary spending. I understand the necessity for entertaining, but he should have enough sense to know this is not the ideal time to be having weekly parties. And also to show some respect for the WH. It's heartbreaking to know our founding fathers sacrificed to make this country great and the white house is supposed to be a symbol of respect, but it's not anymore.
Entertaining to a certain degree is one thing, excessive unnecessary spending and partying while the country is going down the tubes is another. Reminds me of that commercial...
Cost to have high-priced entertainers weekly at the WH - $25,000
Dinner per plate for each person - $5,000
unnecessary spending while the country goes down the tubes - Priceless
I don't agree - see message
There is not just 2 sides (pro or anti). It's more than just "for or against" him. There are many of us in between. There are many who were (past tense) for him. Liked his ideas on the campaign trail, etc. (and voted for him). Since coming into power he has not kept his promises. He instituted programs he never talked about on the campaign trail (probably cos he knew he would not get elected if he told us ahead of time that he would increase taxes on the middle income, send more jobs overseas, triple our deficit, take away or right to bear arms, destroy the constitution, and all the other things he's doing now) - how many people do you think would have really voted for him if they knew ahead of time the destruction he would bring to the country? Also, printing money as if it's monopoly money, he's made the country less safe, embarrassed us by bowing to his leader, apologizing to other countries for how "ignorant and selfish" we are, brought into his cabinet tax cheats and people who are not qualified to fill the positions they hold, has the crats pitted against pubs (not the unity that he professed he would be the only one who could bring both sides together). He fell back against his word of making things more transparent, giving the people a chance to look through things before approving, flip/flop, flip/flop, one day it's this then the next day he goes back on his word, he is taxing the middle income higher than we have seen since Clinton (we have to pay for all those programs he's giving away). He went back on his word about bringing troops home, increased our deficit triple (no, it's not Bush's fault, it's President Soetoro's fault).
Now, with that said I think Barry is a very nice person in person. If I went out to dinner with him and Michelle and their kids I'm sure I'd have a great time and would want them as friends to hang out with. However, I don't like the decisions he (or should I say the people running the country) are making.
People can like him (I do) but not like the policies the administration is putting in place (we have to remember, he is not the one making the decisions - he is just the messenger).
As for if Michelle is pretty or not, I've never seen any posts here talking about that (I did see talk of what she wears, but that goes along with being a first lady and Laura Bush got the same criticism, as did other first ladies before her), but I haven't seen posts asking if she's pretty or not), but you know what...who cares. That's the argument I get into with my mom all the time because she bases her decisions on what someone looks like. I told her it's all a matter of personal opinion. Besides there are many people who are not "good looking" but they have a heart of gold and are a good person on the inside, and there are those who are the pretty on the outside but they have an evil/nasty personality to them.
I fully agree with you - see message
Three months is definitely enough time for a mother to decide whether or not to have the baby. After that I say no way. After that time there is always a practice called adoption.
What I take offense to is someone who claims they know what God's intentions are, and then claims that someone who mows down a person in cold blood is a messenger of god and doing his work and this is what god wants, blah, blah, blah.
I think people should think before they write. When someone professes to know exactly what god wants (and considers killing someone in cold blood an act of god) then its time for some serious medication.
I say if you agree or don't agree that's one thing, but to get on and say "oh yeah, that's what god wanted" (for someone to be mowed down in front of family and friends).
Opinions like that just tend to irritate me a bit.
I agree to a certain extent - see message
I too could care less who has affairs nowadays. Doesn't make me think any less or more of them. However - my little however :-) - He was not the President of the US - Clinton was. Clinton should have been removed from office (although then Gore would have been in charge, so I take that back now) :-) Anyway...it was the fact that Clinton had an affair that got him in trouble, it was the lies, manipulation, lies, and all the other illegal stuff he did that went along with it.
I don't particularly think they are being any less or more hard/lenient on this guy than they had with others who did the same thing. Remember John Edwards? The democrat who WAS running for VP? My point is more that you can't say "this guy was a republican that might have possibly run for VP the next election, and that's why its so bad", when you don't bring up Edwards who DID run for VP.
I feel this way...if it's a republican who is caught having an affair the liberals are sure dragging them through the mud, and if it's a democrat who is caught having an affair the conservatives drag him through the mud. I don't feel either side gets a free pass when it comes to being raked through the coals. I'm sick to death of hearing about this republican who had an affair about as sick as I was hearing about that NY guy, and Edwards, and that guy who got caught in the bathroom at some airport, etc, etc., but your making it sound like only the democrats getting picked on and that's just not true.
P.S. - We really don't need Biden to have an affair to have a field day with him, every time he opens his mouth and speaks he does a doozy on himself. HA HA HA
I totally agree with you - see message
II fee the exact way as you. If people don't agree with them they scream "racist", when they have no clue what a racist is (they use it in the form of a threat). There are plenty of racists on both sides. Voting for someone just because they are black is as bad as not voting for them because they are black. I also see that when republicans and independents talk about issues regarding not agreeing with certain issues or policies they get blasted with "your a racist" - still can't figure out that one. I'll tell you something - Martin Luther King would be ashamed of the lot of them. What I learned about Dr. King was that he was for equality for ALL people regardless of race or anything. He wanted equality to whites (not less, not more - equality). "ALL men are created equal" is what he used to say in his speeches. I hear too many times the crats something think that MLK would be a democrat, blah, blah, blah, speaking as if they knew him personally. They just so happen to like to skip over that one little truth that Dr. Martin Luther King was a registered REPUBLICAN. Whether or not he would have changed parties NOBODY knows because he is not here any longer, although I highly doubt he would have but again, NOBODY, knows. All we know is that he was a republican when he was alive. How I wish he was still here though because I believe he would tell them a thing or two. But the plain truth is they simply do not know what MLK would have done in today's time since times have changed so drastically as have the people in each party. And you're right...they don't care. They throw his name around like it's some sort of a threat. Even Chris Rock talked about that in one of his comedy routines (I think the messenger routine he does).
I would like to see more topics being discussed instead of coming here reading posts starting in with "you this or you that" calling people names and blasting anyone that does not agree with them. It's all childish rhetoric.
I'm also tired of hearing people jump on the "glee wagon" and get pure enjoyment out of seeing someones life destroyed when they are a republican, but when a democrat has been caught doing something equally (if not worse) bad then nobody is supposed to say anything.
So, like you I am sick to death of it.
I'd like to hear about issues, not that someone had an affair, but how about issues that are going to affect our individual lives, like the wasteful spending the crats keep doing, the taxes, growing govt, etc, etc. There is plenty wrong going on.
And since it was okay to bash Bush and cut him down on every single thing he did, they better quit their whining when the bad about their lord comes out. As some on this board said "Payback is a byatch". They sure don't like it when it happens to their guy.
I agree with a couple things you say - see message
I stopped coming to the board for awhile for a couple reasons. First, I got way behind on my work (shame on me). Second because I keep going back between voting for JM, then BO, then JM, then BO, etc. Everytime I hear something new about one or the other I decide to switch, so rather than look the fool and write good or bad on one thing I just stopped. I do not believe people hate Obama. It's more like we are afraid of what will happen to the country if he gets in. And yes we are also concerned what will happen if JM gets in too, but more afraid of BO (BTW - I think I will be voting for the constitutional party). I don't like either choice and I think they are both bad for the country.
I do agree with you that I feel like I'm in school again with people fighting with you but not offering any solutions. And you know what - it's more of the Obama supporters that are bashing the McCain supporters. I know people don't want to hear that because I find more people who are democrats live their life in the "victim state" and like to always blame the republicans for everything bad that's happened and will never look to their own party. I truly believe it is Franks, Cox, & Dodd who are a lot to blame for what has happened economically, but it is easier to bash Bush because it happened while he was in office, but honestly this is not his fault whether you want to believe that or not. Also it isn't McCains fault either because he warned everyone 2 years ago. Also, I haven't read any of the posts, but I found out yesterday that Franks was boyfriend to one of the top people at FMFM that got a big kickback.
So, at this point I'm getting to the point where I don't care who is president. Whether it is McCain or Obama I will continue to get up each day, brush my teeth and work (hopefully).
But you know what is ugly to me on this board is the people who defend McCain are being bashed by the Obama supporters and then they turn around and say they are being picked on (again their stuck there in the victim mode).
Everyone is allowed their opinions, but don't bash the other side and then say poor me, we're being picked on and then call the other side intolerant and ugly.
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