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I agree, this fact was suspected long time before Adam admitted. to it,

Posted By: () on 2009-06-09
In Reply to: Just because you don't condone - Trigger Happy

and this might even have been - unjustified - the reason why Adam, by far the best singer in the group, came in 2nd place.


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Everybody admitted that Adam is a very good singer,
better than Kris, come on! The fact that he is gay cost him the trophy. Same case with Miss California, the other way around. It is not fair!
We have been saying this on the C board a long time. Agree. NM

...


Hey JTBB - I agree with you for once in a long time - see message
Too many posts to reply to so I'll reply here - I read the article. This is not a once in awhile family gathering, BBQ or picnic. This is weekly business meeting. Yes, that's right - business. Religion is a business. If you just had a few people every once in awhile coming to your house that would be one thing, but the article stated they have regular meetings in the home. I think the person who wrote the article did a little bit of "fibbing" with saying they were asked if they say "praise the lord" and if they pray. Could have happened, but I highly doubt it (again that's JMO). The concern the county has is that the home is being used as a business without a business permit. What they are doing is something that should be held in churches - which by the way ALL churches should be taxed seeing as they are all businesses.

I do agree very much with your assessment that these are the same people trying to take away the rights of the LGBT community. It does seem to be a one-way avenue. For the most part all the communities I have lived in the Christians want their rights, but they are also the first to want to remove the rights of other groups if they don't coincide with their beliefs.

If religious people want to have a small gathering in their home that's fine, but bringing a congregation of people into your home is a business, especially if it is on a regular basis.

People have bible meetings all the time in their own homes, but they don't have them on a regular basis and they don't have large groups making them stand out. They should keep their religious assemblies where it belongs - in the churches - and because its a business it should be taxed.

One other note is that the article mentioned what about tupperware parties or baseball games. Well those are not regular business meeetings going on.

I am sick of the hypocracy they have. I'm tired of hearing about "poor us, we can't pray, we can't do this, we can't do that, their trying to take away our rights". Yet everytime when I hear what is really going on I find the story has been exagerated to fit the "poor us" philosophy. Good example is this story. It started out with "poor us, we can pray in our own homes", when the truth comes out they are holding regular business meetings with their congregation meeting at their home residence. Two entirely different things.
You'll be waiting a long, long time, then, cuz she's going to do

I agree, that's why Adam lost. Counteracting Miss California!...nm
nm
I agree, that's why Adam lost. Counteracting Miss California!...nm.
nm
He died a long, long time ago! (If he was ever
Don't force your beliefs on others. It further devalues your faith in the eyes of others.
No problem with that, as long as opinion is not regarded as fact...
as it can be very misleading. On both sides.
Fact Check. Katrina: What Happened When (long article)
Katrina: What Happened When

It will take months to get the full story, but meanwhile here are some of the key facts about what happened and when officials acted.


September 16, 2005



Summary



 


Multiple investigations are likely into the response by federal, state, and local officials to the disastrous flooding of New Orleans from Hurricane Katrina.  New facts are still emerging, and we expect it will be months or years before a full picture can be properly assessed.


In response to numerous requests, we present here a brief timeline of events, as best as we can document them from public records and the best news reporting from the scene. We do not blame or excuse anyone, and leave it to others to judge what, if anything, could or should have been done differently. All times are converted to Central Daylight Time.



Analysis



 


July 23, 2004 - 13 Months Before Katrina


The Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) conducts Hurricane Pam exercise to assess results of a theoretical Category 3 hurricane. It assumes that a storm with 120-mph winds would force Lake Pontchartrain's waters over the tops of the New Orleans' 17.5-foot levees and through a gap in the levee system would flood major portions of the city and would damage up to 87 percent of the city's homes. The Times-Picayune reports that officials expect up to half the city's residents won't evacuate and that many will be trapped in attics, on rooftops, and in makeshift shelters for days.


—In Case of Emergency, New Orleans Times-Picayune, as posted  on the website of the Louisiana Homeland Security & Emergency Preparedness, 20 Jul 2004.


Friday, Aug 26 2005 - 3 Days Prior to Katrina's Louisiana Landfall


Hurricane Katrina strikes Florida between Hallandale Beach and North Miami Beach as a Category 1 hurricane with 80 mph winds.  Eleven people die from hurricane-related causes.


—A chronology of Hurricane Katrina and its aftermath, Associated Press, 3 Sep 2005.


The storm heads into the Gulf of Mexico and by 10:30 am CDT is reported to be rapidly strengthening.


—Hurricane Katrina Special Advisory Number 13 , National Hurricane Center, 26 Aug 2005.


Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco declares a State of Emergency in Louisiana.


—Governor Blanco Declares State of Emergency,  Louisiana Governor's Office, 26 Aug 2005.


Saturday, Aug 27 2005 - 2 Days Prior


Blanco asks President Bush to declare a State of Emergency for the state of Louisiana due to Hurricane Katrina.  Bush does so, authorizing the Department of Homeland Security and FEMA to coordinate all disaster relief efforts… and freeing up federal money for the state.


—Governor Blanco asks President to Declare an Emergency for the State of Louisiana due to Hurricane Katrina,  Louisiana Governor's Office , 27 Aug 2005.    


Statement on federal Emergency Assistance for Louisiana, Office of the White House Press Secretary, 27 Aug 2005.


Katrina is a Category 3 storm, predicted to become Category 4. At 4pm CDT, it is still 380 miles from the mouth of the Mississippi.


—Hurricane Katrina Special Advisory Number  18,  National Hurricane Center  , 26 Aug 2005.


Director of the National Hurricane Center, Max Mayfield, calls the governors of Louisiana and Mississippi and the mayor of New Orleans to warn of potential devastation. The next day he participates in a video conference call to the President, who is at his ranch in Crawford, Texas.


—Tamara Lush, For forecasting chief, no joy in being right  , St. Petersburg Times , 30 Aug 2005.


Sunday, Aug. 28 2005 - 1 Day Prior


1 a.m. - Katrina is upgraded to a Category 4 storm with wind speeds reaching 145 mph.


—Hurricane Katrina Special Advisory Number 20,  National Hurricane Center, 28 Aug 2005.


7 a.m. - Katrina is upgraded to a potentially catastrophic Category 5 storm. NOAA predicts coastal storm surge flooding of 15 to 20 feet above normal tide levels.


—Hurricane Katrina Special Advisory Number 22,  National Hurricane Center , 28 Aug 2005.


—New Orleans braces for monster hurricane,   CNN.com, 29 Aug 2005.


9:30 a.m. - With wind speeds reaching 175 mph, New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin orders a mandatory evacuation of the city after speaking with Bush.  The evacuation call comes only 20 hours before Katrina would make landfall – less than half the time that researchers had determined was necessary to evacuate the city.


—Gordon Russell, Nagin orders first-ever mandatory evacuation of New Orleans , New Orleans Times-Picayune , 31 Aug 2005.


—Lise Olsen, City had evacuation plan but strayed from strategy , Houston Chronicle , 8 Sep 2005.


10 a.m. - NOAA raises their estimate of storm surge flooding to 18 to 22 feet above normal tide levels. The levee protecting New Orleans from Lake Pontchartrain is only 17.5 feet tall; the Mississippi River levee reaches 23 feet.


—Hurricane Katrina Special Advisory Number 23  National Hurricane Center  , 28 Aug 2005.


The Associated Press reports that New Orleans could become a vast cesspool tainted with toxic chemicals, human waste and even coffins released…from the city's legendary cemeteries.


The storm threatened an environmental disaster of biblical proportions , one that could leave more than 1 million people homeless, the AP says.


—Matt Crenson, Katrina may create environmental catastrophe on epic scale, Associated Press , 28 Aug 2005.


11:31 a.m. - The President – at his ranch in Crawford – speaks briefly to reporters. His statement contains 203 words about Katrina and 819 congratulating Iraqis on their new constitution. We will do everything in our power to help the people in the communities affected by this storm, he says of the approaching hurricane.


President Discusses Hurricane Katrina , Congratulates Iraqis on Draft Constitution, Prairie Chapel Ranch, Crawford, Texas, 28 Aug 2005.


8:30 p.m. - An empty Amtrak train leaves New Orleans, with room for thousands of potential evacuees. We offered the city the opportunity to take evacuees out of harm's way…The city declined, said Amtrak spokesman Cliff Black. The train left New Orleans no passengers on board.


—Susan Glasser, The Steady Buildup to a City's Chaos , The Washington Post , 11 Sep 2005.


Two weeks later, Nagin denies on NBC's Meet the Press  that Amtrak offered their services. Amtrak never contacted me to make that offer, the mayor tells host Tim Russert.  I have never gotten that call, Tim, and I would love to have had that call. But it never happened.


Interview with Mayor Nagin , Meet the Press, NBC, 11 Sep 2005.


Monday August 29, 2005 - Day of Katrina


6 a.m. - Katrina makes landfall on Louisiana coast as a strong Category 4 storm, with sustained winds of nearly 145 mph and predicted coastal storm surge of up to 28 feet. The National Hurricane Center warns that some levees in the greater New Orleans area could be overtopped. It says a weather buoy located about 50 miles east of the mouth of the Mississippi river had reported waves heights of at least 47 feet.


—Hurricane Katrina Intermediate Advisory Number 26A …Corrected,    National Hurricane Center  , 29 Aug 2005.


8.a.m. - The storm surge sends water sloshing up the Industrial Canal, and local officials immediately report flooding on both sides. Winds break a barge loose and it strikes the levee.


—John McQuaid, Katrina trapped city in double disasters, New Orleans Times-Picayune, 7 Sep 2005.


9 a.m. - The eastern part of the city and Bernard Parish are already flooded several feet deep, even before the eye of the storm has passed. Thousands of survivors are trapped. But worse flooding is to come: within hours, city canal floodwalls will also collapse and a second, slower wave of flooding will take place.


—John McQuaid, Katrina trapped city in double disasters , New Orleans Times-Picayune , 7 Sep 2005.


11 a.m. - New Orleans is spared a direct hit, as the center of the storm passes over the Louisiana-Mississippi state line 35 miles away from the city. Maximum sustained winds are now reduced, but still a strong Category 3 storm with 125 mph winds.


—Hurricane Katrina Advisory Number 27,  National Hurricane Center , 29 Aug 2005.


11:06 a.m . - Bush promotes his Medicare prescription drug benefit at a 44-minute event in El Mirage, Arizona. He devotes 156 words to the hurricane, among them: I want the folks there on the Gulf Coast to know that the federal government is prepared to help you when the storm passes. I want to thank the governors of the affected regions for mobilizing assets prior to the arrival of the storm to help citizens avoid this devastating storm.


President Participates in Conversation on Medicare  White House  , 29 Aug 2005.


Late Morning (exact time uncertain)  - The vital 17th Street Canal levee gives way, sending the water from Lake Pontchartrain into the city in a second, slower wave of flooding. A full day will pass before state or federal officials fully realize what is happening.


—John McQuaid, Katrina trapped city in double disasters , New Orleans Times-Picayune , 7 Sep 2005.


Eventually, engineers will find five separate places where concrete floodwalls gave way. They will still be debating and studying the causes of the failures two weeks after the storm.


—John McQuaid, Mystery surrounds floodwall breaches; Could a structural flaw be to blame ? New Orleans Times-Picayune , 13 Sep 2005.


About 11 a.m. (exact time uncertain) - Roughly five hours after Katrina strikes the coast, FEMA director Michael Brown sends a memo – later obtained and made public by The Associated Press – requesting an additional 1,000 rescue workers from the Department of Homeland Security within 48 hours and 2,000 more within seven days. It is addressed to his boss, Michael Chertoff, Secretary of Homeland Security. Brown refers to Katrina as this near catastrophic event (our emphasis.) He proposes sending the workers first for training in Georgia or Florida, then to the disaster area when conditions are safe. Among the duties of the workers, Brown proposes, is to convey a positive image of disaster operations to government officials, community organizations and the general public. (Emphasis added.)


—Michael D. Brown, Memorandum to Michael Chertoff, Secretary of Homeland Security , 29 Aug 2005.


Later Brown will say FEMA itself has only 2,600 employees nationwide, and normally relies on state workers, the National Guard, private contractors and other federal agencies during disaster relief operations.


—David D. Kirkpatrick and Scott Shane, Ex-FEMA Chief Tells of Frustration and Chaos , New York Times, 15 Sep 2005: A1.


4:40 p.m.  - Bush appears in Rancho Cucamonga, California for another Medicare event. He again devotes a few words to Katrina: It's a storm now that is moving through, and now it's the time for governments to help people get their feet on the ground. . . . For those of you who are concerned about whether or not we're prepared to help, don't be. We are. We're in place. We've got equipment in place, supplies in place. And once the -- once we're able to assess the damage, we'll be able to move in and help those good folks in the affected areas.


President Discusses Medicare, New Prescription Drug Benefits  ,James L. Brulte Senior Center Rancho Cucamonga, California, 29 Aug 2005.


Time uncertain - Blanco calls Bush, saying, Mr. President, we need your help. We need everything you've got. Bush later assures her that help is on the way.


—James Carney et al, 4 Places Where the System Broke Down, Time , 11 September 2005.


—Evan Thomas, How Bush Blew It, Newsweek , 19 September 2005.


Tuesday August 30, 2005 - 1 Day After Katrina


Dawn - Water has continued to rise overnight and is coursing through the city's central business district, still rising. Eventually, at least least 80 percent of New Orleans is under water. Reports of looting surface.


—John McQuaid, Katrina trapped city in double disasters , New Orleans Times-Picayune , 7 Sep 2005.


11:04 a.m.  - In San Diego, California, Bush delivers a 31-minute speech marking the 60th anniversary of the end of World War II. Of Katrina, he says, we're beginning to move in the help that people need.


President Commemorates 60th Anniversary of V-J Day Naval Air Station North Island San Diego, California 30 Aug 2005.


Immediately after the speech, White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan tells reporters that Bush will return to Crawford, then cut short his Texas stay and go to Washington. McClellan says, This is one of the most devastating storms in our nation's history. I think that's becoming clear to everyone. The devastation is enormous.


Press Gaggle by Scott McClellan , Naval Air Station North Island San Diego, California, 30 Aug 2005.


3 p.m. - With water still pouring into the city, officials report that the Army Corps of Engineers has surveyed the damage to levees and will soon attempt repair. 


At a Baton Rouge briefing, Sen. Mary Landrieu reports that most of the roads and highways are impassable, and water is still coming into the city of New Orleans. The water is up to the rooftops in St. Bernard and Plaquemine. We think there may be only one major way into the city right now and it has to be used for emergency personnel to get food and water and rescue equipment to people who are in desperate need.


But even now, federal and state officials alike seem unaware of the full extent of the unfolding disaster.


FEMA's coordinator William Lokey says of the still-rising water:



FEMA's Bill Lokey: In the metropolitan area in general, in the huge majority of areas, it's not rising at all. It's the same or it may be lowering slightly. In some parts of New Orleans, because of the 17th Street breach, it may be rising and that seemed to be the case in parts of downtown.


I don't want to alarm everybody that, you know, New Orleans is filling up like a bowl. That's just not happening.


None of the state officials present at the press conference correct Lokey's mistaken remark. And Blanco seems puzzled when a reporter asks the governor about the water pollution that will later emerge as a major public health risk:



Q: Does the water that's downtown -- does this represent what everyone feared before the hurricane would come, that you would have this toxic soup that has overrun the city?


Blanco: It didn't -- I wouldn't think it would be toxic soup right now. I think it's just water from the lake, water from the canals. It's, you know, water.


Q: Well, something could be underneath that water.


Blanco: Pardon?


The Situation Room; Hurricane Katrina Aftermath ; Rescue Efforts and Assessing the Damage, Transcript, CNN,  30 Aug 2005.


Wednesday August 31, 2005 - 2 Days After


Morning - Bush, still in Crawford, participates in a half-hour video conference on Katrina with Vice President Cheney (who is in Wyoming) and top aides. Later, he boards Air Force One and flies over New Orleans on his way back to Washington. His press secretary tells reporters: The President, when we were passing over that part of New Orleans, said, 'It's devastating, it's got to be doubly devastating on the ground.'


Press Gaggle with Scott McClellan Aboard Air Force One, En Route Andrews Air Force Base, MD,  31 Aug 2005.


Looting intensifies in New Orleans.  Nagin orders most of the police to abandon search and rescue missions for survivors and focus on packs of looters who are becoming increasingly violent.  The AP reported, Police officers were asking residents to give up any guns they had before they boarded buses and trucks because police desperately needed the firepower.


Mayor: Katrina may have killed thousands , Associated Press , 31 Aug 2005


Late Afternoon  - Bush, back at the White House, holds a cabinet meeting on Katrina and speaks for nine minutes in the Rose Garden to outline federal relief efforts. He says FEMA has moved 25 search and rescue teams into the area. As for those stranded at the Superdome, Buses are on the way to take those people from New Orleans to Houston, the President says.


President Outlines Hurricane Katrina Relief Efforts , The Rose Garden, 31 Aug 2005.


Thursday September 1, 2005 - 3 Days After


7 a.m. - Bush says I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees. His remark comes in a live interview on ABC's Good Morning America :



Bush: I want people to know there's a lot of help coming. I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees. They did anticipate a serious storm. These levees got breached and as a result, much of New Orleans is flooded and now we're having to deal with it and will.


—“Good Morning America,” Transcript, ABC News, 1 September 2005.


Time Uncertain - Red Cross President Marsha Evans asks permission to enter the city with relief supplies, but Louisiana state officials deny permission.


—Red Cross: State rebuffed relief efforts: Aid organization never got into New Orleans, officials say   CNN.com , 9 Sep 2005.


Thirty-thousand National Guard Troops from across the country are ordered to report to the Gulf Coast, but many do not arrive for several days.


More Navy Ships, National Guard troops head to the Gulf Coast , Associated Press, 1 Sep 2005.


The first buses arrive at the Superdome to take evacuees to the Astrodome in Houston, 355 miles away. But the evacuation goes slowly and will take several days.


—Evan Thomas, The Lost City, Newsweek , 12 September 2005.


Associated Press photographer Phil Coale makes an aerial shot of scores of school buses sitting unused in a flooded New Orleans lot. Many will later question why city officials did not use these busses to evacuate residents who lacked transportation prior to the hurricane, or at least move them to higher ground for use later.


—AP Photo/Phil Coale Aerial view of flooded school busses, Yahoo News, 1 Sep 2005.


Evening - In a special report that is typical of the picture that television is conveying to the world, CNN Correspondent Adaora Udoji reports: Three days after Hurricane Katrina, and the situation is getting more desperate by the minute. Thousands are still stranded in misery.  . . . They are marching in search of food, water and relief. They're surrounded by a crumbling city and dead bodies. Infants have no formula, the children no food, nothing for adults, no medical help. They're burning with frustration, and sure they have been forgotten.


And CNN's Medical Correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, reports live from Charity hospital in New Orleans: It doesn't appear to be safe now, but it seems that a sniper standing atop one of the buildings just above us here and firing down at patients and doctors as they were trying to be evacuated, unbelievable. It just boggles my mind, actually.


—Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees, Special Edition: Hurricane Katrina  CNN Transcripts  , 1 Sept 2005.


Brown says FEMA officials were unaware for days that – besides the hurricane victims stranded in the Superdome – thousands more had taken refuge in the New Orleans Convention Center nearby. Speaking from Baton Rouge in a live interview with CNN's Paula Zahn, he says:



Brown : And so, this -- this catastrophic disaster continues to grow. I will tell you this, though. Every person in that Convention Center, we just learned about that today . And so, I have directed that we have all available resources to get to that Convention Center to make certain that they have the food and water, the medical care that they need...
Q: Sir, you aren't telling me...
Brown : ... and that we take care of those bodies that are there.  . . .
Q: Sir, you aren't just telling me you just learned that the folks at the Convention Center didn't have food and water until today, are you? You had no idea they were completely cut off?
Brown: Paula, the federal government did not even know about the Convention Center people until today.


—Paula Zahn Now, Desperation in New Orleans; Interview With FEMA Director Mike Brown,  Transcript , 1 Sep 2005.


Later, Brown will say he was wrong and that FEMA actually knew about the victims at the Convention Center 24 hours earlier but was unable to reach them until Thursday.


—David D. Kirkpatrick and Scott Shane, Ex-FEMA Chief Tells of Frustration and Chaos, New York Times 15 Sep 2005: A1


Evening - Nagin delivers a rambling diatribe in an interview with local radio station WWL-AM, blaming Bush and Blanco for doing too little:



Nagin : I need reinforcements, I need troops, man. I need 500 buses, man.  . .
I've got 15,000 to 20,000 people over at the convention center. It's bursting at the seams. The poor people in Plaquemines Parish. ... We don't have anything, and we're sharing with our brothers in Plaquemines Parish.
It's awful down here, man.
. . . Don't tell me 40,000 people are coming here. They're not here. It's too doggone late. Now get off your asses and do something , and let's fix the biggest goddamn crisis in the history of this country.


—Mayor to feds: 'Get off your asses,' Transcript of radio interview with New Orleans' Nagin, CNN.com, 2 Sep 2005.


Friday September 2, 2005 - 4 Days After


The Red Cross renews its request to enter the city with relief supplies. We had adequate supplies, the people and the vehicles, Red Cross official Vic Howell would later recall. Louisiana officials say they needed 24 hours to provide an escort and prepare for the Red Cross's arrival. However, 24 hours later, a large-scale evacuation is underway and the Red Cross relief effort never reaches New Orleans.


—Red Cross: State rebuffed relief efforts: Aid organization never got into New Orleans, officials say   CNN.com , 9 Sep 2005.


8:02 a.m. - Bush leaves the White House to tour the hurricane area. He says, A lot of people are working hard to help those who have been affected, and I want to thank the people for their efforts. The results are not acceptable .


—President Heads to Hurricane Katrina Affected Areas,  The South Lawn , 2 Sep 2005.


10:35 am - Bush, arriving in Alabama to tour the disaster area, says of the FEMA director at a live news conference: Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job. The FEMA director is working 24 -- (applause) -- they're working 24 hours a day. Again, my attitude is, if it's not going exactly right, we're going to make it go exactly right. If there's problems, we're going to address the problems.


—President Arrives in Alabama, Briefed on Hurricane Katrina,  Mobile Regional Airport Mobile , Alabama 2 Sep 2005.


Noon - A convoy of military trucks drives through floodwaters to the convention center, the first supplies of water and food to reach victims who have waited for days. Thousands of armed National Guardsmen carrying weapons stream into the city to help restore order. Commanding is Army Lt. Gen. Russel Honoré, a cigar-chomping Louisiana native who soon wins praise for his decisive style of action.


—Allen G. Breed, National Guardsmen Arrive in New Orleans, The Associated Press, 2 Sep 2005.


5:01p.m. - Bush speaks at New Orleans airport, saying, I know the people of this part of the world are suffering, and I want them to know that there's a flow of progress. We're making progress.


—President Remarks on Hurricane Recovery Efforts , Louis Armstrong New Orleans International Airport 2 Sep 2005.



Saturday, September 3, 2005 - 5 Days After


10:06 am - Bush announces he is ordering additional active duty forces to the Gulf coast. The enormity of the task requires more resources, he says in his Saturday radio address. In America we do not abandon our fellow citizens in their hour of need. He says 4,000 active-duty troops are already in the area and 7,000 more will arrive in the next 72 hours. Those will add to some 21,000 National Guard troops already in the region.


President Addresses Nation , Discusses Hurricane Katrina Relief Efforts, The Rose Garden , 3 Sep 2005.


Sunday, September 4, 2005 - 6 Days After


The President issues a proclamation ordering the US Flag to be flown at half-staff at all federal building until Sept. 20 as a mark of respect for the victims of Hurricane Katrina.


Proclamation by the President: Honoring the Memory of the Victims of Hurricane Katrina, 4 Sep 2005.


Monday September 5, 2005 - One Week After


U.S. Army Corps of Engineers repair the levee breach on the 17th Street Canal and begin to pump water from the city.


—Pumps begin to drain New Orleans.  CNN.com , 6 Sep 2005.



Tuesday September 6, 2005 - 8 Days After

FEMA asks reporters to refrain from taking pictures of the dead. Reuters quotes a FEMA spokeswoman as sending an email saying, The recovery of victims is being treated with dignity and the utmost respect and we have requested that no photographs of the deceased be made by the media.


—Deborah Zabarenko,  Media groups say FEMA censors search for bodies , Reuters , 7 Sep 2005


Nagin orders police and law enforcement officials to remove everyone from the city who is not involved in recovery efforts.  Despite this order, many residents remain in New Orleans, refusing to leave.


—Cain Burdeau,  New Orleans Mayor orders Forced Evacuation , Associated Press , 7 Sep 2005.


Wednesday September 7, 2005 - 9 Days After


FEMA brings in Kenyon International Services from Houston to assist in recovering  bodies, many of which have been left in the open since the storm hit. A week later, state and federal officials will still be bickering over who is to pay the $119,000 daily expense of the outside mortuary specialists, and many bodies will still lie uncollected in the open and in drained buildings two weeks after the storm.


—Michelle Krupa, Louisiana hires firm to help recover bodies ; Blanco says FEMA moved too slowly, New Orleans Times-Picayune , 14 Sep 2005.


A bipartisan joint Congressional Committee is announced to investigate the response to Hurricane Katrina at all levels of government, as federal, state, and local officials continue to blame each other for the slow response in dealing with the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.


—GOP leaders agree to joint Katrina hearings,   CNN.com , 8 Sep 2005.


Friday September 9, 2005 - 11 Days After


Chertoff removes Brown from his role in managing the Katrina relief effort, and puts  Coast Guard Vice Admiral Thad W. Allen in charge.


—Peter Baker,  FEMA Director Replaced as Head of Relief Effort , Washington Post , 10 Sep 2005:  A01.


Monday September 12, 2005 - Two Weeks After


Brown resigns as head of FEMA saying, it is important that I leave now to avoid further distraction from the ongoing mission of FEMA.


—Statement by Michael D. Brown, Under Secretary of Department of Homeland Security Emergency Preparedness & Response and Director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency,   News Release , FEMA, 12 Sep 2005.


September 13, 2005


11:30 a.m. – Bush takes responsibility for the federal government’s failures while speaking at a press conference with Iraqi President Talabani.



Bush: Katrina exposed serious problems in our response capability at all levels of government. And to the extent that the federal government didn't fully do its job right, I take responsibility. I want to know what went right and what went wrong.


—“President Welcomes President Talabani of Iraq to the White House,” The East Room, news release , 13 Sep 2005.


Thursday, September 15, 2005


Brown, in an interview published in the New York Times , says the governor and her staff had failed to organize a coherent state effort in the days after the hurricane, and that his field officers in the city were reporting an out of control situation to his superiors. He says he asked state officials, What do you need? Help me help you. . . . The response was like, 'Let us find out,' and then I never received specific requests for specific things that needed doing. A spokesman for the governor said, That is just totally inaccurate.


—David D. Kirkpatrick and Scott Shane, Ex-FEMA Chief Tells of Frustration and Chaos , New York Times 15 Sep 2005: A1


8:02 p.m. - Bush says, in a prime-time, televised speech from New Orleans, that the system, at every level of government, was not well-coordinated, and was overwhelmed in the first few days. He says the military should have a greater role in reacting to future large disasters.  Congress is preparing an investigation, and I will work with members of both parties to make sure this effort is thorough. He promises massive aid, tax breaks, and loan guarantees to aid rebuilding, saying that there is no way to imagine America without New Orleans, and this great city will rise again.


—President Discusses Hurricane Relief in Address to the Nation, Jackson Square,  New Orleans, Louisiana 15 Sep 2005.


That's just how it is and how it has been for a long time.
Doesn't seem to be anything we can do about it.  As someone has said, it's a privately owned board and the political alliance appears to be very right-wing evangelical Christian.  The Religion board used to be even worse than the Politics board until it got renamed Christian (now at least it's named for what it really is).  I don't even look at that board anymore.
This has been around a long time. sm
How and why someone would assemble WTC and the flight victims this way is beyond me.  Oh well, to each his own, but I am thinking SOMEONE has a little too much time on their hands!
This is long, but when you have time...
read this with an open mind. Do not think about what any media person or pundit or anyone else has said about anything to do with the campaign. I will not even share what I think. In fact, do not think about the person who said them, just think about the message.

*****
PHILADELPHIA - "We the people, in order to form a more perfect union."

Two hundred and twenty one years ago, in a hall that still stands across the street, a group of men gathered and, with these simple words, launched America's improbable experiment in democracy. Farmers and scholars; statesmen and patriots who had traveled across an ocean to escape tyranny and persecution finally made real their declaration of independence at a Philadelphia convention that lasted through the spring of 1787.

The document they produced was eventually signed but ultimately unfinished. It was stained by this nation's original sin of slavery, a question that divided the colonies and brought the convention to a stalemate until the founders chose to allow the slave trade to continue for at least twenty more years, and to leave any final resolution to future generations.

Of course, the answer to the slavery question was already embedded within our Constitution - a Constitution that had at is very core the ideal of equal citizenship under the law; a Constitution that promised its people liberty, and justice, and a union that could be and should be perfected over time.

And yet words on a parchment would not be enough to deliver slaves from bondage, or provide men and women of every color and creed their full rights and obligations as citizens of the United States. What would be needed were Americans in successive generations who were willing to do their part - through protests and struggle, on the streets and in the courts, through a civil war and civil disobedience and always at great risk - to narrow that gap between the promise of our ideals and the reality of their time.

This was one of the tasks we set forth at the beginning of this campaign - to continue the long march of those who came before us, a march for a more just, more equal, more free, more caring and more prosperous America. I chose to run for the presidency at this moment in history because I believe deeply that we cannot solve the challenges of our time unless we solve them together - unless we perfect our union by understanding that we may have different stories, but we hold common hopes; that we may not look the same and we may not have come from the same place, but we all want to move in the same direction - towards a better future for of children and our grandchildren.

This belief comes from my unyielding faith in the decency and generosity of the American people. But it also comes from my own American story.

I am the son of a black man from Kenya and a white woman from Kansas. I was raised with the help of a white grandfather who survived a Depression to serve in Patton's Army during World War II and a white grandmother who worked on a bomber assembly line at Fort Leavenworth while he was overseas. I've gone to some of the best schools in America and lived in one of the world's poorest nations. I am married to a black American who carries within her the blood of slaves and slaveowners - an inheritance we pass on to our two precious daughters. I have brothers, sisters, nieces, nephews, uncles and cousins, of every race and every hue, scattered across three continents, and for as long as I live, I will never forget that in no other country on Earth is my story even possible.

It's a story that hasn't made me the most conventional candidate. But it is a story that has seared into my genetic makeup the idea that this nation is more than the sum of its parts - that out of many, we are truly one.

Throughout the first year of this campaign, against all predictions to the contrary, we saw how hungry the American people were for this message of unity. Despite the temptation to view my candidacy through a purely racial lens, we won commanding victories in states with some of the whitest populations in the country. In South Carolina, where the Confederate Flag still flies, we built a powerful coalition of African Americans and white Americans.

This is not to say that race has not been an issue in the campaign. At various stages in the campaign, some commentators have deemed me either "too black" or "not black enough." We saw racial tensions bubble to the surface during the week before the South Carolina primary. The press has scoured every exit poll for the latest evidence of racial polarization, not just in terms of white and black, but black and brown as well.

And yet, it has only been in the last couple of weeks that the discussion of race in this campaign has taken a particularly divisive turn.

On one end of the spectrum, we've heard the implication that my candidacy is somehow an exercise in affirmative action; that it's based solely on the desire of wide-eyed liberals to purchase racial reconciliation on the cheap. On the other end, we've heard my former pastor, Reverend Jeremiah Wright, use incendiary language to express views that have the potential not only to widen the racial divide, but views that denigrate both the greatness and the goodness of our nation; that rightly offend white and black alike.

I have already condemned, in unequivocal terms, the statements of Reverend Wright that have caused such controversy. For some, nagging questions remain. Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes. Did I strongly disagree with many of his political views? Absolutely - just as I'm sure many of you have heard remarks from your pastors, priests, or rabbis with which you strongly disagreed.

But the remarks that have caused this recent firestorm weren't simply controversial. They weren't simply a religious leader's effort to speak out against perceived injustice. Instead, they expressed a profoundly distorted view of this country - a view that sees white racism as endemic, and that elevates what is wrong with America above all that we know is right with America; a view that sees the conflicts in the Middle East as rooted primarily in the actions of stalwart allies like Israel, instead of emanating from the perverse and hateful ideologies of radical Islam.

As such, Reverend Wright's comments were not only wrong but divisive, divisive at a time when we need unity; racially charged at a time when we need to come together to solve a set of monumental problems - two wars, a terrorist threat, a falling economy, a chronic health care crisis and potentially devastating climate change; problems that are neither black or white or Latino or Asian, but rather problems that confront us all.

Given my background, my politics, and my professed values and ideals, there will no doubt be those for whom my statements of condemnation are not enough. Why associate myself with Reverend Wright in the first place, they may ask? Why not join another church? And I confess that if all that I knew of Reverend Wright were the snippets of those sermons that have run in an endless loop on the television and You Tube, or if Trinity United Church of Christ conformed to the caricatures being peddled by some commentators, there is no doubt that I would react in much the same way

But the truth is, that isn't all that I know of the man. The man I met more than twenty years ago is a man who helped introduce me to my Christian faith, a man who spoke to me about our obligations to love one another; to care for the sick and lift up the poor. He is a man who served his country as a U.S. Marine; who has studied and lectured at some of the finest universities and seminaries in the country, and who for over thirty years led a church that serves the community by doing God's work here on Earth - by housing the homeless, ministering to the needy, providing day care services and scholarships and prison ministries, and reaching out to those suffering from HIV/AIDS.

In my first book, Dreams From My Father, I described the experience of my first service at Trinity:

"People began to shout, to rise from their seats and clap and cry out, a forceful wind carrying the reverend's voice up into the rafters….And in that single note - hope! - I heard something else; at the foot of that cross, inside the thousands of churches across the city, I imagined the stories of ordinary black people merging with the stories of David and Goliath, Moses and Pharaoh, the Christians in the lion's den, Ezekiel's field of dry bones. Those stories - of survival, and freedom, and hope - became our story, my story; the blood that had spilled was our blood, the tears our tears; until this black church, on this bright day, seemed once more a vessel carrying the story of a people into future generations and into a larger world. Our trials and triumphs became at once unique and universal, black and more than black; in chronicling our journey, the stories and songs gave us a means to reclaim memories that we didn't need to feel shame about…memories that all people might study and cherish - and with which we could start to rebuild."

That has been my experience at Trinity. Like other predominantly black churches across the country, Trinity embodies the black community in its entirety - the doctor and the welfare mom, the model student and the former gang-banger. Like other black churches, Trinity's services are full of raucous laughter and sometimes bawdy humor. They are full of dancing, clapping, screaming and shouting that may seem jarring to the untrained ear. The church contains in full the kindness and cruelty, the fierce intelligence and the shocking ignorance, the struggles and successes, the love and yes, the bitterness and bias that make up the black experience in America.

And this helps explain, perhaps, my relationship with Reverend Wright. As imperfect as he may be, he has been like family to me. He strengthened my faith, officiated my wedding, and baptized my children. Not once in my conversations with him have I heard him talk about any ethnic group in derogatory terms, or treat whites with whom he interacted with anything but courtesy and respect. He contains within him the contradictions - the good and the bad - of the community that he has served diligently for so many years.

I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community. I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother - a woman who helped raise me, a woman who sacrificed again and again for me, a woman who loves me as much as she loves anything in this world, but a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street, and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe.

These people are a part of me. And they are a part of America, this country that I love.
Some will see this as an attempt to justify or excuse comments that are simply inexcusable. I can assure you it is not. I suppose the politically safe thing would be to move on from this episode and just hope that it fades into the woodwork. We can dismiss Reverend Wright as a crank or a demagogue, just as some have dismissed Geraldine Ferraro, in the aftermath of her recent statements, as harboring some deep-seated racial bias.

But race is an issue that I believe this nation cannot afford to ignore right now. We would be making the same mistake that Reverend Wright made in his offending sermons about America - to simplify and stereotype and amplify the negative to the point that it distorts reality.

The fact is that the comments that have been made and the issues that have surfaced over the last few weeks reflect the complexities of race in this country that we've never really worked through - a part of our union that we have yet to perfect. And if we walk away now, if we simply retreat into our respective corners, we will never be able to come together and solve challenges like health care, or education, or the need to find good jobs for every American.

Understanding this reality requires a reminder of how we arrived at this point. As William Faulkner once wrote, "The past isn't dead and buried. In fact, it isn't even past." We do not need to recite here the history of racial injustice in this country. But we do need to remind ourselves that so many of the disparities that exist in the African-American community today can be directly traced to inequalities passed on from an earlier generation that suffered under the brutal legacy of slavery and Jim Crow.

Segregated schools were, and are, inferior schools; we still haven't fixed them, fifty years after Brown v. Board of Education, and the inferior education they provided, then and now, helps explain the pervasive achievement gap between today's black and white students.

Legalized discrimination - where blacks were prevented, often through violence, from owning property, or loans were not granted to African-American business owners, or black homeowners could not access FHA mortgages, or blacks were excluded from unions, or the police force, or fire departments - meant that black families could not amass any meaningful wealth to bequeath to future generations. That history helps explain the wealth and income gap between black and white, and the concentrated pockets of poverty that persists in so many of today's urban and rural communities.

A lack of economic opportunity among black men, and the shame and frustration that came from not being able to provide for one's family, contributed to the erosion of black families - a problem that welfare policies for many years may have worsened. And the lack of basic services in so many urban black neighborhoods - parks for kids to play in, police walking the beat, regular garbage pick-up and building code enforcement - all helped create a cycle of violence, blight and neglect that continue to haunt us.

This is the reality in which Reverend Wright and other African-Americans of his generation grew up. They came of age in the late fifties and early sixties, a time when segregation was still the law of the land and opportunity was systematically constricted. What's remarkable is not how many failed in the face of discrimination, but rather how many men and women overcame the odds; how many were able to make a way out of no way for those like me who would come after them.

But for all those who scratched and clawed their way to get a piece of the American Dream, there were many who didn't make it - those who were ultimately defeated, in one way or another, by discrimination. That legacy of defeat was passed on to future generations - those young men and increasingly young women who we see standing on street corners or languishing in our prisons, without hope or prospects for the future. Even for those blacks who did make it, questions of race, and racism, continue to define their worldview in fundamental ways. For the men and women of Reverend Wright's generation, the memories of humiliation and doubt and fear have not gone away; nor has the anger and the bitterness of those years. That anger may not get expressed in public, in front of white co-workers or white friends. But it does find voice in the barbershop or around the kitchen table. At times, that anger is exploited by politicians, to gin up votes along racial lines, or to make up for a politician's own failings.

And occasionally it finds voice in the church on Sunday morning, in the pulpit and in the pews. The fact that so many people are surprised to hear that anger in some of Reverend Wright's sermons simply reminds us of the old truism that the most segregated hour in American life occurs on Sunday morning. That anger is not always productive; indeed, all too often it distracts attention from solving real problems; it keeps us from squarely facing our own complicity in our condition, and prevents the African-American community from forging the alliances it needs to bring about real change. But the anger is real; it is powerful; and to simply wish it away, to condemn it without understanding its roots, only serves to widen the chasm of misunderstanding that exists between the races.

In fact, a similar anger exists within segments of the white community. Most working- and middle-class white Americans don't feel that they have been particularly privileged by their race. Their experience is the immigrant experience - as far as they're concerned, no one's handed them anything, they've built it from scratch. They've worked hard all their lives, many times only to see their jobs shipped overseas or their pension dumped after a lifetime of labor. They are anxious about their futures, and feel their dreams slipping away; in an era of stagnant wages and global competition, opportunity comes to be seen as a zero sum game, in which your dreams come at my expense. So when they are told to bus their children to a school across town; when they hear that an African American is getting an advantage in landing a good job or a spot in a good college because of an injustice that they themselves never committed; when they're told that their fears about crime in urban neighborhoods are somehow prejudiced, resentment builds over time.

Like the anger within the black community, these resentments aren't always expressed in polite company. But they have helped shape the political landscape for at least a generation. Anger over welfare and affirmative action helped forge the Reagan Coalition. Politicians routinely exploited fears of crime for their own electoral ends. Talk show hosts and conservative commentators built entire careers unmasking bogus claims of racism while dismissing legitimate discussions of racial injustice and inequality as mere political correctness or reverse racism.

Just as black anger often proved counterproductive, so have these white resentments distracted attention from the real culprits of the middle class squeeze - a corporate culture rife with inside dealing, questionable accounting practices, and short-term greed; a Washington dominated by lobbyists and special interests; economic policies that favor the few over the many. And yet, to wish away the resentments of white Americans, to label them as misguided or even racist, without recognizing they are grounded in legitimate concerns - this too widens the racial divide, and blocks the path to understanding.

This is where we are right now. It's a racial stalemate we've been stuck in for years. Contrary to the claims of some of my critics, black and white, I have never been so naïve as to believe that we can get beyond our racial divisions in a single election cycle, or with a single candidacy - particularly a candidacy as imperfect as my own.

But I have asserted a firm conviction - a conviction rooted in my faith in God and my faith in the American people - that working together we can move beyond some of our old racial wounds, and that in fact we have no choice is we are to continue on the path of a more perfect union.

For the African-American community, that path means embracing the burdens of our past without becoming victims of our past. It means continuing to insist on a full measure of justice in every aspect of American life. But it also means binding our particular grievances - for better health care, and better schools, and better jobs - to the larger aspirations of all Americans -- the white woman struggling to break the glass ceiling, the white man whose been laid off, the immigrant trying to feed his family. And it means taking full responsibility for own lives - by demanding more from our fathers, and spending more time with our children, and reading to them, and teaching them that while they may face challenges and discrimination in their own lives, they must never succumb to despair or cynicism; they must always believe that they can write their own destiny.

Ironically, this quintessentially American - and yes, conservative - notion of self-help found frequent expression in Reverend Wright's sermons. But what my former pastor too often failed to understand is that embarking on a program of self-help also requires a belief that society can change.

The profound mistake of Reverend Wright's sermons is not that he spoke about racism in our society. It's that he spoke as if our society was static; as if no progress has been made; as if this country - a country that has made it possible for one of his own members to run for the highest office in the land and build a coalition of white and black; Latino and Asian, rich and poor, young and old -- is still irrevocably bound to a tragic past. But what we know -- what we have seen - is that America can change. That is true genius of this nation. What we have already achieved gives us hope - the audacity to hope - for what we can and must achieve tomorrow.

In the white community, the path to a more perfect union means acknowledging that what ails the African-American community does not just exist in the minds of black people; that the legacy of discrimination - and current incidents of discrimination, while less overt than in the past - are real and must be addressed. Not just with words, but with deeds - by investing in our schools and our communities; by enforcing our civil rights laws and ensuring fairness in our criminal justice system; by providing this generation with ladders of opportunity that were unavailable for previous generations. It requires all Americans to realize that your dreams do not have to come at the expense of my dreams; that investing in the health, welfare, and education of black and brown and white children will ultimately help all of America prosper.

In the end, then, what is called for is nothing more, and nothing less, than what all the world's great religions demand - that we do unto others as we would have them do unto us. Let us be our brother's keeper, Scripture tells us. Let us be our sister's keeper. Let us find that common stake we all have in one another, and let our politics reflect that spirit as well.

For we have a choice in this country. We can accept a politics that breeds division, and conflict, and cynicism. We can tackle race only as spectacle - as we did in the OJ trial - or in the wake of tragedy, as we did in the aftermath of Katrina - or as fodder for the nightly news. We can play Reverend Wright's sermons on every channel, every day and talk about them from now until the election, and make the only question in this campaign whether or not the American people think that I somehow believe or sympathize with his most offensive words. We can pounce on some gaffe by a Hillary supporter as evidence that she's playing the race card, or we can speculate on whether white men will all flock to John McCain in the general election regardless of his policies.

We can do that.

But if we do, I can tell you that in the next election, we'll be talking about some other distraction. And then another one. And then another one. And nothing will change.

That is one option. Or, at this moment, in this election, we can come together and say, "Not this time." This time we want to talk about the crumbling schools that are stealing the future of black children and white children and Asian children and Hispanic children and Native American children. This time we want to reject the cynicism that tells us that these kids can't learn; that those kids who don't look like us are somebody else's problem. The children of America are not those kids, they are our kids, and we will not let them fall behind in a 21st century economy. Not this time.

This time we want to talk about how the lines in the Emergency Room are filled with whites and blacks and Hispanics who do not have health care; who don't have the power on their own to overcome the special interests in Washington, but who can take them on if we do it together.

This time we want to talk about the shuttered mills that once provided a decent life for men and women of every race, and the homes for sale that once belonged to Americans from every religion, every region, every walk of life. This time we want to talk about the fact that the real problem is not that someone who doesn't look like you might take your job; it's that the corporation you work for will ship it overseas for nothing more than a profit.

This time we want to talk about the men and women of every color and creed who serve together, and fight together, and bleed together under the same proud flag. We want to talk about how to bring them home from a war that never should've been authorized and never should've been waged, and we want to talk about how we'll show our patriotism by caring for them, and their families, and giving them the benefits they have earned.

I would not be running for President if I didn't believe with all my heart that this is what the vast majority of Americans want for this country. This union may never be perfect, but generation after generation has shown that it can always be perfected. And today, whenever I find myself feeling doubtful or cynical about this possibility, what gives me the most hope is the next generation - the young people whose attitudes and beliefs and openness to change have already made history in this election.

There is one story in particularly that I'd like to leave you with today - a story I told when I had the great honor of speaking on Dr. King's birthday at his home church, Ebenezer Baptist, in Atlanta.

There is a young, twenty-three year old white woman named Ashley Baia who organized for our campaign in Florence, South Carolina. She had been working to organize a mostly African-American community since the beginning of this campaign, and one day she was at a roundtable discussion where everyone went around telling their story and why they were there.

And Ashley said that when she was nine years old, her mother got cancer. And because she had to miss days of work, she was let go and lost her health care. They had to file for bankruptcy, and that's when Ashley decided that she had to do something to help her mom.

She knew that food was one of their most expensive costs, and so Ashley convinced her mother that what she really liked and really wanted to eat more than anything else was mustard and relish sandwiches. Because that was the cheapest way to eat.

She did this for a year until her mom got better, and she told everyone at the roundtable that the reason she joined our campaign was so that she could help the millions of other children in the country who want and need to help their parents too.

Now Ashley might have made a different choice. Perhaps somebody told her along the way that the source of her mother's problems were blacks who were on welfare and too lazy to work, or Hispanics who were coming into the country illegally. But she didn't. She sought out allies in her fight against injustice.

Anyway, Ashley finishes her story and then goes around the room and asks everyone else why they're supporting the campaign. They all have different stories and reasons. Many bring up a specific issue. And finally they come to this elderly black man who's been sitting there quietly the entire time. And Ashley asks him why he's there. And he does not bring up a specific issue. He does not say health care or the economy. He does not say education or the war. He does not say that he was there because of Barack Obama. He simply says to everyone in the room, "I am here because of Ashley."

"I'm here because of Ashley." By itself, that single moment of recognition between that young white girl and that old black man is not enough. It is not enough to give health care to the sick, or jobs to the jobless, or education to our children.

But it is where we start. It is where our union grows stronger. And as so many generations have come to realize over the course of the two-hundred and twenty one years since a band of patriots signed that document in Philadelphia, that is where the perfection begins.

-Barack Obama
March 18, 2008
It's been out there for a long time
The LA Times (just one of the papers) told its bloggers to not touch this story. The rest of the media did the same. The Enquirer talked about this last November. As things come out in just this one story, everyone reading this should question their news providers. No need to argue with me. Just let it play out if you don't believe me. Better yet, venture out on your own and find your own answers before flaming away. I give no one a free pass in the news biz.
I have been on the board a long time. SM
I saw someone on the conservative board being wished to die and burn in hell once.  And there were a lot of other really bad things. Just because it isn't on the first page, doesn't mean it is there.   The suggestion has been made time and time again, not to go to the board if you can't handle it, and you just keep doing it and then whine about it.  What's up with that. I know I am going to get creamed when I come here. Have you ever ONCE heard me whine about it?  I don't THINK so.  There's the difference.  The right is up to here with the left putting the military at risk with their appeasement behavior and we are not feeling like being nice about it.  If you can't take it, stay away. It really is as simple as that.
Have watched him a long time....he says
xx
you will be waiting for a long time
x
yes, they will, but not for a long time, thanks to Mr. Bush. NM
x
If the big O had shown his BC a long time ago, this
nm
It will take a long time to get out of this mess.
That is for certain. I don't blame it on the unions though. My family (not my husbands) have been involved with unions for years and I see it as a positive thing.

I do have a problem with the higher-ups in these companies pulling in millions and using company jets, etc. for personal needs. Instead of laying off 50 factory workers they could do away with 5 high-paid workers. It's a well known statement that the higher up you get, the more you deligate and less work you do - in any company. The middle class is falling away and this needs to stop. Perfect example, the guy from GM (I think) making his way to ask for bailout money in the companies private jet. What kind of hotel you think these people have been staying in while fighting to stay out of bankruptcy - probably enough to pay a few factory workers wages for a month or two.
I remember a LONG time ago...

...(maybe 25 to 30 years), I didn't have much interest in politics at the time and saw one of their battles on TV. 


The Palestinians were throwing ROCKS at the Israelis, and the Israelis were responding with MACHINE GUNS.


Didn't seem like a very fair fight at the time.


I guess some things never change. 


Four years is a very long time

in political terms and our memories seem to be pretty short.  Politicians under suspicion of all types of malfeasance in office, some actual convicted felons are elected and re-elected.  In 2012 much of her family turmoil may have been forgotten.  If she keeps doing a good job for Alaska, does nothing stupid or illegal in the course of her official duties, I think she'll be okay in four years. 


However, I believe that the mainstream media will make a point of hounding her every step for the next four years to make sure she is not in a position to run for national office.  And I think that every problem she has, both personal and professional, will be blasted at us constantly as a reminder.


She didn't make it up. In fact, it's not the first time

these domestic terrorists bought an abortion clinic.  Now, they "need a bigger office."


Operation Rescue president Troy Newman said that his group has discussed the idea of buying the tan, windowless clinic in east Wichita. He made the comment after the Tiller family announced that the clinic would be closed permanently.

"I would love to make an offer on that abortion clinic, and that's some of the discussion that we're having," Newman said in a telephone interview Tuesday from his group's headquarters in Wichita.

Tiller was shot May 31 while serving as an usher at his church. Scott Roeder, a 51-year-old Kansas City, Mo., resident, has been charged with first-degree murder and aggravated assault.

Tiller attorney Dan Monnat declined to discuss Newman's suggestion.
"I'm just not going to respond to every irreverent publicity stunt or comment by these extremists," Monnat said.

Newman's group bought another former abortion clinic in Wichita in 2006 for its headquarters, but he said the group needs to expand. "We need a bigger office," he said.


 
Balance at:  http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/06/10/national/main5079658.shtml?source=RSSattr=U.S._5079658


You will wait a long time for an apology for me. sm

In fact, I DEMAND an apology for falsely accusing any of us, after the moderator already told you, that we did not contact her.  An article about Presidente Bush being clinically insane would definitely appear to violate the rules of the board, as posted REPEATEDLY.  How dare you, sir!  To quote your hero, Olberman.


I forgot it a long time ago......some things are
xx
Wow! That was the best thing I've seen in a long time
Thanks for sharing. Excellent!!!!
Beautiful speech made a long time ago

No, this isn't a Ron Paul speech but he brought this speech to the attention of Congress, trying to make a point to their greedy sorry behinds.  Just take the time to read it..... it is still true today. 


 


http://www.ronpaul2008.com/articles/1111/not-yours-to-give/


We stopped reading your posts a long time ago!


Excellent post - best I've seen in a long time
Thanks for posting. I really wish more people would think like this. I just want someone qualified who will do what is best for the people of the country. It's just not happening and hasn't been for some time. Forget the name calling and who started it. All I know is it's broken and needs to be fixed and this is an excellent way to fix it.
I heard work requirement mentioned a long time ago - nm
x
I lost respect for the replican party a long time ago
When they ended up putting McCain in there that did it for me. I've lost all respect for both parties. Guess that's why I'm more into the Constitution party/Independent (depending on their viewpoints).

I can take an insult from people, and I can dish them out too, but sometimes I get just a little irrated.

I wish all parties would go away and people would vote on issues because of the issues and not because of which party suggested them. I wish people would accept blame when they are at fault and not blame it all on the other parties (both sides).

But one thing I am glad for is that if Obama is elected (in January after we hear how the electoral college voted), if he does become our next president then when he does give speeches he will have a nice strong voice and will not be saying "my friends" every 5 minutes.

Think I will take another sabatical from this board for awhile and focus on other things and get my mind off this nonsense.
Now THAT's the smartest thing I've read in a long time! nm

East Ohio Gas has been using natural gas to fuel their utility trucks for years - why hasn't that caught on?  Makes ya wonder..............


What if Obama didn't hang around with terrorists? What if he was not a long-time follower of a r
Then I would be voting for him.
I suspected as much as well.
And I suspect using more than one moniker.  It's only a chat board.  Who has the energy for this?
I have always suspected

that Michelle is a racist.  Like you said.....look at the church they attended for 20 years.  That right there was proof enough for me and it truly saddens me that you would find that kind of hate in a church.


As for Palin's experience, I still do not see why some people consider her experience not enough to take over the presidency if, God forbid, something happens to McCain.  She has been governor of a state.  That was good enough for Clinton as well as other former presidents who went from being governor of a state to the president.  Obama has very little experience himself and he is running for the president.  There is no....what happens if the president dies and Obama takes over.....it will be Obama is the president...period.  His own running mate stated he didn't have enough experience....that is until he was picked as VP.  To me Obama has yet to show me that he is capable of making executive decisions.  He either says one thing and votes another way or he chooses to vote "present" instead of actually making a decision of yes or no. 


The person I want running our country is someone who is willing to tell his party to stick it when they feel the party is making a wrong decision.  Like McCain warning them about Fannie Mae, etc.  No one listened to him but at least he was willing to stand up and say.....hey people.  I have yet to see that out of Obama. 


As for McCain and Bush being pals....I don't believe that is true.  In fact, from what I've seen and heard, I would hazard a guess that McCain doesn't even really like Bush a whole lot personally. 


Whoever ends up in the office, I hope and pray that one of the first things they do is cut government spending!  Another reason why I can't vote for Obama.  You can't have all of these government programs without raises taxes and raising government spending. 


I do agree with the fact that we don't need

unnecessary spending, but to get rid of all or most of the gov't programs would be devastating to the people who really need the help - not the deadbeats.  Maybe if we need to stop spending billions of dollars in Iraq.  Maybe we need to stop giving such big tax breaks and close some tax loop holes to big companies, that the gov't is ending up bailing out anyway. 


I don't agree with McCain or Palin on many issues, but I do agree with her on the her saying that the gov't needs to put out there like a list so we could see exactly where the money is going.  I don't remember her exact words, but that is the gist of what she said. 


I am still undecided who to vote for, leaning more towards Obama (put a sign for him out, mainly to T off a certain neighbor ).  I don't agree with Palin on any issues at all really, but I am still trying to research - though it is hard because you have to wade through all the mud slinging on both sides. 


About the response I suspected

You infer that you know how and where I get my information.  If you're so freaking clairvoyant then what are you doing here?


The elitism just oozes from you.


That's right! As long as I agree, "I'm getting it" LOL
nm
This time I agree it is sad

As Sam said, we need to hold Obama/Biden feet to the fire as I would have John McCain.  Whether we voted for him or not, (I did)  we are where we are and I always say if you get lemons make lemonaid.  I said yesterday that I would send a congratulatory email and I will try not to be too long-winded.  LOL   I will make my points as to why I supported them and that I EXPECT them to keep their promises and DELIVER.  I would urge everyone to do the same.  If you didn't vote for them I urge all of you to let them know that you didn't and why.  They will no doubt be seeking re-election in 4 years.  The best contact I could find, I am posting a link below.  I will continue to hold their feet to the fire and I know I can count on Sam to join me.  I think it is well for those of you with concerns to address them.  I will continue to keep updated and post any new information regarding contact and hopefully we'll all raise our voices STARTING RIGHT NOW.


http://answercenter.barackobama.com/cgi-bin/barackobama.cfg/php/enduser/ask.php


Adam
Funny you should tell a Jew how to interpret our laws. The basis is that G-d breathed into Adam and he was born. I don't believe I quoted the old testament at all, either in my first post or this one.
Adam
I knew he was gay from the beginning. Maybe I'm different, but it doesn't bother me at all. People can do whatever they want to do. It's none of my business. I love Adam, my daughter loves Adam. Can't wait to meet him in August at the concert.
at least you admitted it.

WITH THIS YOU JUST ADMITTED THAT IT WAS Y O U ....s/m
who posted THIS NASTY REPLY TO 'ABC' ON 11/16/08.

Whereas a couple of post below you swore to the question: 'M, did you post this message?'

'OF COURSE NOT.'

Liar you are!!
I caught you redhanded!

I don't like lies!
I agree. I do not think any jail time was warranted. (nm)
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Adam from American Idol is gay.
I was very upset that this came out in the news.  My daughter loves him and I am no longer going to be able to let her listen to his music.  They should keep things like this behind closed doors.
Adam from American Idol is gay.
I was very upset that this came out in the news.  My daughter loves him and I am no longer going to be able to let her listen to his music.  They should keep things like this behind closed doors.
Has Adam become a political issue?...nm
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Uh....when have you admitted a fault...
or fallacy, piglet?

Threatened...? Nope. Mildly amused. You two obviously feel the need to have each other to pile on; that certainly sounds more like feeling threatened than anything I have done.

I think you mean what do I feel about comradery that is distasteful not tasteful..?? I did not say it was distasteful at all! I said it was amusing. And it is. You enjoy ridiculing and find it humorous. You have that in common, and I find that amusing. I am allowed.

Distasteful joke? Oh COME on. Geez. Some of the things guys have posted and guffawed here about actual people by name and you call me distasteful?? Apparently Whorn at least has a sense of humor. Belittled an entire human race? An entire human race? I thought there was only one...human race that it is.
You are really reaching on that one. If one cannot poke fun at Osama Bin Laden without you getting all up in arms about "an entire human race..."

You are always good for a laugh, piglet. To use your own words...guffaw.
Oh yeah CNN...the same ones who admitted...
paying of Saddam so they could keep a reporter in Iraq...THAT CNN. Bastions of democracy.
Well Obama did both and admitted to doing too much
))
And he ADMITTED to lying.
I wonder if he'll get demerits for doing the unthinkable:  telling the truth!
And he ADMITTED to lying.
I wonder if he'll get demerits from the GOP for doing the unthinkable:  telling the truth!