I agree, but - he got an endorsement from an evangelist but he didn't attend the church for 20 ye
Posted By: MeMT on 2008-10-14
In Reply to: Correct, Rev. Wright on one side and white evangelicals on the other....sm - independent
McCain did get an endorsement from a radical evangelist, but I don't think it involved racism or hate, he is just sort of "out there." However, McCain did not attend his church(was it Hagee, not sure), just got an endorsement from him. That is a huge difference from attending the church for 20 years under him.
Complete Discussion Below:  marks the location of current message within thread
The messages you are viewing
are archived/old.
To view latest messages and participate in discussions, select
the boards given in left menu
Other related messages found in our database
But did he attend church
There is a difference you know. One can claim to be a member of a church and never set foot in it. Perhaps this is how he did it.
If he didn't go to church, then what would you say?
He can't win; if he goes he's wrong, if he doesn't what? The fact remains: Clinton lied, nobody died. Bush lied and 3 YEARS, billions of dollars later, 2300+ died...and yet we're being told how much **progress** is being made. Get over Clinton and wake up!
To not attend? You had to be invited to attend -
I am sure if he had been invited to attend the speech, then he would have been there. I think if it was important to President Bush for Mr. Obama to hear what he was saying, he would have invited him to be in that room with him.
I kind of think you could look at it like President Bush was showing bad manners by not inviting him to attend (not really, just making a point that it was no big deal).
See it can go both ways.
Running from church to church is not the answer...sm
There are problems and controversy in every church. I do not agree with things that go on in my church nor everything that my pastor says or does. I have found that some churches problems are greater than the ones in your own church, so some times you have to be still.
Here's one for ya....Me along with plenty of other Americans don't agree with what our current President Bush has done in terms of running our country, starting a war, making history by putting every state in this country in a negative deficit, and I could continue to go on, but the point is even in our disagreement with him, we have not jumped up and ran to another country and we wonder why; running is not the answer. First off it is not our place to condemn one, but since someone is being condemned for what was said, condemn the Rev. Wright, not Obama.
thats an endorsement
It is that deeply corrupt and the only thing they can come up on Obama is a dinner party at Ayers house as proof of wrong-doing? Good point. Has Ayres menaced, threatened or injured your sister in anyway?
This endorsement happened this morning....
She formally announced she is supporting McCain and will campaign for him.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/16/prominent-clinton-backer-and-dnc-member-to-endorse-mccain/
thank you for the ringing endorsement for freedom of speech....
yet another reason why I would never vote for a Democrat.
Did you bother to read the endorsement or simply
Think about it.
It appears that Roberts involvement in the case was not an endorsement per se. SM
![SF](http://www.sfgate.com/templates/sfgatelogo_xsm.gif") www.sfgate.com Return to regular view
Roberts Helped Group on Gay Rights
- By JON SARCHE, Associated Press Writer
Friday, August 5, 2005
(08-05) 19:27 PDT DENVER (AP) --
A decade ago, John Roberts played a valuable role helping attorneys overturn a Colorado referendum that would have allowed discrimination against gays — free assistance the Supreme Court nominee didn't mention in a questionnaire he filled out for the Senate Judiciary Committee.
The revelation didn't appear to dent his popularity among conservative groups nor quell some of the opposition of liberal groups fearful he could help overturn landmark decisions such as Roe v. Wade, which guarantees a right to an abortion.
An attorney who worked with Roberts cautioned against making guesses about his personal views based on his involvement in the Colorado case, which gay rights advocates consider one of their most important legal victories.
"It may be that John and others didn't see this case as a gay-rights case," said Walter Smith, who was in charge of pro bono work at Roberts' former Washington law firm, Hogan & Hartson.
Smith said Roberts may instead have viewed the case as a broader question of whether the constitutional guarantee of equal protection prohibited singling out a particular group of people that wouldn't be protected by an anti-discrimination law.
"I don't think this gives you any clear answers, but I think it's a factor people can and should look at to figure out what this guy is made of and what kind of Supreme Court justice he would make," Smith said.
On Friday, Senate Judiciary Committee Republicans released two memos by Roberts when he was as an assistant counsel in the Reagan White House. In one, Roberts argued that President Reagan should not interfere in a Kentucky case involving the display of tributes to God in schools.
In the other, Roberts writes that Reagan shouldn't grant presidential pardons to bombers of abortion clinics. "The president unequivocally condemns such acts of violence," he wrote in a draft reply to a lawmaker seeking Reagan's position. "No matter how lofty or sincerely held the goal, those who resort to violence to achieve it are criminals."
Meanwhile, the Justice Department denied a request by Judiciary Committee Democrats for Roberts' writings on 16 cases he handled when he was principal deputy solicitor general during President George H.W. Bush's administration. The department also declined to provide the materials, other than those already publicly available, to The Associated Press and other organizations that sought them under the Freedom of Information Act.
"We cannot provide to the committee documents disclosing the confidential legal advice and internal deliberations of the attorneys advising the solicitor general," assistant Attorney General William E. Moschella wrote Friday to the eight committee Democrats.
Sen. Patrick Leahy of Vermont, the panel's senior Democrat, said Roberts made decisions whether to pursue legal appeals in more than 700 cases. "The decision to keep these documents under cover is disappointing," Leahy said.
The gay rights case involved Amendment 2, a constitutional amendment approved by Colorado voters in 1992 that would have barred laws, ordinances or regulations protecting gays from discrimination by landlords, employers or public agencies such as school districts.
Gay rights groups sued, and the measure was declared unconstitutional in a 6-3 ruling by the U.S. Supreme Court in 1996.
Roberts' role in the case, disclosed this week by the Los Angeles Times, included helping develop a strategy and firing tough questions during a mock court session at Jean Dubofsky, a former Colorado Supreme Court justice who argued the case on behalf of the gay rights plaintiffs.
Dubofsky, who did not return calls Friday, said Roberts helped develop the strategy that the law violated the equal protection clause in the Constitution — and prepared her for tough questions from conservative members of the court. She recalled how Justice Antonin Scalia asked for specific legal citations.
"I had it right there at my fingertips," she told the Times. "Roberts was just terrifically helpful in meeting with me and spending some time on the issue. He seemed to be very fair-minded and very astute."
Dubofsky had never argued before the Supreme Court. Smith said she called his firm and asked specifically for help from Roberts, who argued 39 cases before the court before he was confirmed as a judge on the U.S. Court of Appeals in Washington, D.C., in 2003.
Smith said any lawyer at Hogan & Hartson would have had the right to decline to work on any case for moral, religious or other reasons.
"If John had felt that way about this case, given that he is a brilliant lawyer, he would have just said, `This isn't my cup of tea' and I would have said, `Fine, we'll look for something else that would suit you,'" Smith said.
The Lambda Legal Defense Fund, which helped move the case through the state and federal courts, said Roberts' involvement raised more questions about him than it answered because of his "much more extensive advocacy of positions that we oppose," executive director Kevin Cathcart said.
"This is one more piece that will be added to the puzzle in the vetting of John Roberts' nomination," Cathcart said.
The Rev. Lou Sheldon, founder of the Traditional Values Coalition, said his support for Roberts' nomination has not diminished. "He wasn't the lead lawyer. They only asked him to play a part where he would be Scalia in a mock trial," Sheldon said.
Focus on the Family Action, the political arm of the Colorado Springs-based conservative Christian ministry Focus on the Family, said Roberts' involvement was "certainly not welcome news to those of us who advocate for traditional values," but did not prompt new concerns about his nomination, which the group supports.
"That's what lawyers do — represent their firm's clients, whether they agree with what those clients stand for or not," the group said in a statement.
URL: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/n/a/2005/08/05/national/w135401D98.DTL
okay -- so you agree that I didn't
twist the words "moderate muslims" but rather the words "win over"?
I guess I'd better buy a new dictionary, because the last time I looked, "win over" was a good synonym for "make friends."
It's okay that you stand by your post even though you aren't. I get it. Some people just like to argue.
Most of them attend or have graduated from DRJBSOJ
That is the Dan Rather-Jayson Blair School of Journalism 
McCain to attend debate.
nm
Obama not going to attend economic
nm
I wholeheartedly agree that he didn't consider
the Constitution at all when running (not walking) into Iraq. In fact, there are a multitude of things he didn't consider. It seems the ONLY thing he considered was his potential legacy as a *great leader* and he *needed* a war to be seen as a war-time *Commander in Chief.*
As far as an article being left leaning, in case you hadn't noticed, you are posting on a predominantly left-leaning board.
As more facts concerning this President's outrageous behavior begin to surface, I believe the true character of this man will be revealed to those who are willing to see the truth.
Have a great evening. 
I didn't agree with Pat Robertson either. sm
However, I doubt Chavez offer came free of strings. I am glad we did not accept his help. He has shown himself for what he is.
I agree...I didn't get that from his speech either.....
I didn't even vote for Obama, and yet I found myself agreeing with most everything he said, particularly regarding the current behind-the-times educational system in our country.
Although it will doubtlessly impact my career in some way(s), I also see the benefits of electronic medical records. I don't think this will eliminate MTs at all; however, I do think we need to stay current with technology and stop dragging our feet about ASR/VR programs and those who don't have training in this area might want to learn.
Maybe it's just me, but as someone who didn't even for the guy, his speech impressed me. He seems to combine logic with passion and conviction, and I think those are admirable qualities.
Didn't say I agree with his tactics.....
Just noticing how poster doesn't seem to care for anyone protesting against gays.
It wouldn't matter if it were ANYONE from ANY church, poster would have a problem with that too!
I think Rev Phelps needs to do a little more Bible reading. His methods are sickening.
How many funerals did Johnson and Clinton attend.
Answer me that. It is inappropriate because it seems you will use any tragedy to further your sad and disturbing hate for this president. I get that by reading these boards.
He is not supposed to attend since he's only the President-elect.
This summit is for leaders of the country, not leaders that will be.
Many influential and successful people attend Trinity.
It is very similar to the neighborhood I live in that social status and activism are linked to the church you attend. Trinity does an amazing amount of good works on the South Side.
You go girl - 60,000 people attend her rally in Florida
Not bad for a town whose population is 70,000 people.
http://news-press.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080921/NEWS0107/80921022
Obama cancels events to attend grandmother's failing health.
x
Original pledge by forefathers didn't include God. I agree with keeping the original.
http://www.usflag.org/history/pledgeofallegiance.html
The original Pledge of Allegiance
I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands- one nation indivisible-with liberty and justice for all.
On September 8,1892, the Boston based The Youth's Companion magazine published a few words for students to repeat on Columbus Day that year. Written by Francis Bellamy,the circulation manager and native of Rome, New York, and reprinted on thousands of leaflets, was sent out to public schools across the country. On October 12, 1892, the quadricentennial of Columbus' arrival, more than 12 million children recited the Pledge of Allegiance, thus beginning a required school-day ritual.
At the first National Flag Conference in Washington D.C., on June14, 1923, a change was made. For clarity, the words the Flag of the United States replaced my flag. In the following years various other changes were suggested but were never formally adopted.
It was not until 1942 that Congress officially recognized the Pledge of Allegiance. One year later, in June 1943, the Supreme Court ruled that school children could not be forced to recite it. In fact,today only half of our fifty states have laws that encourage the recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance in the classroom!
In June of 1954 an amendment was made to add the words under God. Then-President Dwight D. Eisenhower said In this way we are reaffirming the transcendence of religious faith in America's heritage and future; in this way we shall constantly strengthen those spiritual weapons which forever will be our country's most powerful resource in peace and war.
that church is concerning to me
it SHOULD be concerning to everyone.
This is why I don't go to church
Is this what is going on in the churchs now? Fear tactics that we are all doomed to he**? Our society is morally based. Go walk around the Middle East for a day and you will appreciate just how moral we are. The public schools aren't there to raise our children and at least they can go to school. You don't have to put your child in the public school system, that is also the beauty of choice in our country. Try having your child dodge bombs instead or be taught to strap bombs to themselves and die in the name of God. I'll take the science class any day over that. You can teach your children to have faith and to read books based on opinions and science. We aren't stupid, we can make our own decisions. I love the fact that my son can argue all points of view. He was taught evolution, so what? He is smart enough to make his own decision, just like you! All opinions should be presented to grow and learn. If there was only one point of view, how would we know how to chose?
Yes, and The Persecuted Church
While persecution is not exclusionary to one set of beliefs at the present time Christians are the most persecuted people in the world especially in the Arab world and in communistic countries such as China and dictatorial countries like Iran and North Korea.
persecutedchurch.org
obama's church
OBAMA'S CHURCH
Subject: TRINITY UNITED CHURCH OF CHRIST
During this campaign for the Presidency, It's interesting that so much had been made of Mitt Romney's Mormom religion, while we heard/hear so little of Barack Obama's, outside of the denials of his being Muslim.
However, if you look more closely at Trinity United Church of Christ, Obama's church, it sounds more like a racist cult than anything else, with a committment, not to America, but to Africa. Scary, when you consider this man could be the President of this United States.
Please go to this church's website and read what is written there. It is very alarming. Barack Obama is a member of this church and is running for President of the U.S. If you look at the first page of their website, you will learn that this congregation has a non-negotiable commitment to Africa. No where is AMERICA even mentioned. Notice too, what color you will need to be if you should want to join Obama's church... B-L-A-C-K! Whites attend, I have also read, but are not members. Doesn't look like his choice of religion has improved much over his (former?) Muslim upbringing. This guy desires to rule over America while his loyalty is totally vested in a Black Africa! It is so important to pass this message along to all of our family & friends. To think that Obama has even the slightest chance in the run for the presidency, is really scary. This is the web page for the church Barack Obama belongs to:
www.tucc.org/about.htm
and then I saw/heard him speak yesterday and only see young white people always arround him....where are these black folks who are supporting him? The whites on TV clamoring around him far outweigh the number of blacks ALL the time that I see, I do not get that....it should be mixed in my mind wherever he speaks/goes to.
I am not a racist so please do not attack me.....
Catholic Church
Nancy Pelosi's big mouth is the last problem the Obama campaign wanted to contend with.
In its newly ratified platform, the Democratic Party reinvigorates its commitment to abortion.
This time Nancy Pelosi has truly gone too far -- which isn't good news for Joe Biden either.
Found at spectator.org. Other info at wnd.com
The Church Lady
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61wj4tJICcc
If you go to church, has your pastor done this?
WEST BEND, Wis. (AP) - Thirty-three pastors in 22 states used their sermons to make pointed recommendations about political candidates today.
The effort was orchestrated by the Arizona-based Alliance Defense Fund.
The conservative legal group plans to send copies of the pastors' sermons to the Internal Revenue Service with hope of setting off a legal fight and abolishing restrictions on church involvement in politics.
Critics call it unnecessary, divisive and unlikely to succeed.
The Reverend Eric Williams of Columbus has organized 55 religious leaders across the nation to file a complaint about the ADF's challenge.
The minister with the liberal United Church of Christ says churches should stand apart from the government.
I am surprised! You went to Church?....
.
you have never been to my sister's church
and she is not going to look for a different one either. You don't speak for God and neither do they.
These churches have their own agendas. Anybody can be brainwashed if they do not question authority.
Because there's more than one church, one viewpoint?
Until we all think and behave exactly like them, some Christians won't feel they got their way?
And Reps want the church to tell me what to do.
nm
What is the reason for church
I don't go to church either. There is a church on every corner in my town and yet I don't know any of my neighbors? The only time a neighbor knocks on my door is when they are trying to convert me. What about all the kids who can only eat when they go to school? What about when someone gets their electric bill shut off in the winter? Can't the church help that person out? Or is it more important to fund the Sunday Pot Luck, Mens Camp or build a new wing - great use of tithing! What about the child who is being abused right under our nose? What is the church for and who do they care about? Members only? A church on every corner and yet my city is crumbling. Self-rightous do-gooders who don't do much and then complain if the government has to step in and help out. Judgemental people who can't see what is right next door. Stupid projects like sending red envelopes. I'm sure you will be blessed 10-fold for that one. I am Pro-choice and I am a foster parent who is trying to improve a real life and I don't believe in going to modern day churches filled with people who are more concerned about what the rest of the world is doing wrong. I can't be concerned with that because I do enough wrong on my own. So this weekend, while your sitting around feeling so self-rightous, go talk to a perfect stranger and ask how they are doing. You will be amazed at the difference you can make in a life when it isn't Sunday morning at church.
If a church - see message
doesn't want to hire you based on whether you were married in the church - well you probably don't want to work there in the first place.
I was married in the town hall by the Mayor of one of the cities in Denmark. Would they not consider that a marriage?
My belief is marriage is marriage. Call it what you want, it's still marriage. Two people love each other they should be able to be married no matter what gender, race, or anything. Calling it something else is discrimination - plane and simple.
Obama was a member of a church ...
where God Dam* America was preached. And it was in 1994 either. HE taught Saul Alinsky's methods. Saul's son said Obama learned his father's lessons well. I'll say. Already wanting to employ redistribution of wealth. That is a threat NOW.
The Church of the Self-Righteous Has Spoken
I don't care what anyone believes or practices - freedom of religion
It's the freaks who think THEIR religion is the ONLY RIGHT religion who scare me.
Even Jesus was a liberal.
Since I believe in SEPARATION of church & state,
Save it for Sundays in church, Sarah!
Religious people go to church
Religious people who go to work check their religion at the door. The constitution specifically instructs Congress to do the same. "Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." This means keep religion out of federal legislative codes. Implied therein is the concept that the nation is not theocratic in nature.
The original poster is well understood in the expressed wish that this not be forgotten and remain unchanged. It is difficult to understand what is meant by the statement that religion will be in the White House under any leadership. Clearly, religious people, some to a greater degree than others, will inhabit the White House and the chambers of Congress. However, religion is constitutionally prohibited from entering the body of our laws and does not provide a foundation for our governmental institutions. The constitution has given indivuals immunity from federally mandates on religion. Wise men of great vision, our forefathers.
As the SNL church-lady would say, "Well now...
Not.
I went to a very moderate Baptist church as a ....sm
child and teenager, and no drinking alcohol or dancing was allowed whatsoever.
Separation of church and state.......... sm
is actually not described in the Constitution in the manner in which it is interpreted today. The First Amendment actually reads, in part, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ." One of the reasons America came to be was to flee government-instituted religion such as in England. It was more to keep government out of religion than the other way around. Today, however, it has come to be interpreted, especially by those who would eschew religion in all manners, as religion should be kept out of the government.
The phrase "separation of church and state" is more accurately traced to a letter from Thomas Jefferson to the Dansbury Baptists, a religious minority in Connecticut who were concerned about the dominant position of the Congregationalist Church there. They were concerned that the Congregationalists would "take over" the religion in much the same manner that the Church of England had taken over in England. He wrote: "Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their "legislature" should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between church and State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties." In other words, Jefferson was assuring the Dansbury Baptists that their religion would be safe from any government-imposed religion and that they would be free to worship and express their religious beliefs. It says nothing about constricting their religion to their churches and their homes.
Maybe this is one of the things that Obama would relate to his belief that the Constitution is a "living document" as opposed to a static document. Who knows?
and a Bible study is not a church either sm
There is a difference. Its about CHRISTIAN persecution!
IRS to Church: Support Iraq War or Lose Your
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-allsaints7nov07,0,592419,full.story?coll=la-home-headlines
Antiwar Sermon Brings IRS Warning
All Saints Episcopal Church in Pasadena risks losing its tax-exempt status because of a former rector's remarks in 2004.
By Patricia Ward Biederman and Jason Felch
Times Staff Writers
November 7, 2005
The Internal Revenue Service has warned one of Southern California's largest and most liberal churches that it is at risk of losing its tax-exempt status because of an antiwar sermon two days before the 2004 presidential election.
Rector J. Edwin Bacon of All Saints Episcopal Church in Pasadena told many congregants during morning services Sunday that a guest sermon by the church's former rector, the Rev. George F. Regas, on Oct. 31, 2004, had prompted a letter from the IRS.
In his sermon, Regas, who from the pulpit opposed both the Vietnam War and 1991's Gulf War, imagined Jesus participating in a political debate with then-candidates George W. Bush and John Kerry. Regas said that good people of profound faith could vote for either man, and did not tell parishioners whom to support.
But he criticized the war in Iraq, saying that Jesus would have told Bush, Mr. President, your doctrine of preemptive war is a failed doctrine. Forcibly changing the regime of an enemy that posed no imminent threat has led to disaster.
On June 9, the church received a letter from the IRS stating that a reasonable belief exists that you may not be tax-exempt as a church … The federal tax code prohibits tax-exempt organizations, including churches, from intervening in political campaigns and elections.
The letter went on to say that our concerns are based on a Nov. 1, 2004, newspaper article in the Los Angeles Times and a sermon presented at the All Saints Church discussed in the article.
The IRS cited The Times story's description of the sermon as a searing indictment of the Bush administration's policies in Iraq and noted that the sermon described tax cuts as inimical to the values of Jesus.
As Bacon spoke, 1984 Nobel Peace Prize winner Archbishop Desmond Tutu, a co-celebrant of Sunday's Requiem Eucharist, looked on.
We are so careful at our church never to endorse a candidate, Bacon said in a later interview.
One of the strongest sermons I've ever given was against President Clinton's fraying of the social safety net.
Telephone calls to IRS officials in Washington, D.C., and Los Angeles were not returned.
On a day when churches throughout California took stands on both sides of Proposition 73, which would bar abortions for minors unless parents are notified, some at All Saints feared the politically active church had been singled out.
I think obviously we were a bit shocked and dismayed, said Bob Long, senior warden for the church's oversight board. We felt somewhat targeted.
Bacon said the church had retained the services of a Washington law firm with expertise in tax-exempt organizations.
And he told the congregation: It's important for everyone to understand that the IRS concerns are not supported by the facts.
After the initial inquiry, the church provided the IRS with a copy of all literature given out before the election and copies of its policies, Bacon said.
But the IRS recently informed the church that it was not satisfied by those materials, and would proceed with a formal examination. Soon after that, church officials decided to inform the congregation about the dispute.
In an October letter to the IRS, Marcus Owens, the church's tax attorney and a former head of the IRS tax-exempt section, said, It seems ludicrous to suggest that a pastor cannot preach about the value of promoting peace simply because the nation happens to be at war during an election season.
Owens said that an IRS audit team had recently offered the church a settlement during a face-to-face meeting.
They said if there was a confession of wrongdoing, they would not proceed to the exam stage. They would be willing not to revoke tax-exempt status if the church admitted intervening in an election.
The church declined the offer.
Long said Bacon is fond of saying it's a sin not to vote, but has never told anyone how to vote. We don't do that. We preach to people how to vote their values, the biblical principles.
Regas, who was rector of All Saints from 1967 to 1995, said in an interview that he was surprised by the IRS action and then I became suspicious, suspicious that they were going after a progressive church person.
Regas helped the current church leadership collect information for the IRS on his sermon and the church's policies on involvement in political campaigns.
Some congregants were upset that a sermon citing Jesus Christ's championing of peace and the poor was the occasion for an IRS probe.
I'm appalled, said 70-year-old Anne Thompson of Altadena, a professional singer who also makes vestments for the church.
In a government that leans so heavily on religious values, that they would pull a stunt like this, it makes me heartsick.
Joe Mirando, an engineer from Burbank, questioned whether the 3,500-member church would be under scrutiny if it were not known for its activism and its liberal stands on social issues.
The question is, is it politically motivated? he said. That's the underlying feeling of everyone here. I don't have enough information to make a decision, but there's a suspicion.
Bacon revealed the IRS investigation at both morning services. Until his announcement, the mood of the congregation had been solemn because the services remembered, by name, those associated with the church who had died since last All Saints Day.
Regas' 2004 sermon imagined how Jesus would admonish Bush and Kerry if he debated them. Regas never urged parishioners to vote for one candidate over the other, but he did say that he believes Jesus would oppose the war in Iraq, and that Jesus would be saddened by Bush's positions on the use and testing of nuclear weapons.
In the sermon, Regas said, President Bush has led us into war with Iraq as a response to terrorism. Yet I believe Jesus would say to Bush and Kerry: 'War is itself the most extreme form of terrorism. President Bush, you have not made dramatically clear what have been the human consequences of the war in Iraq.'
Later, he had Jesus confront both Kerry and Bush: I will tell you what I think of your war: The sin at the heart of this war against Iraq is your belief that an American life is of more value than an Iraqi life. That an American child is more precious than an Iraqi baby. God loathes war.
If Jesus debated Bush and Kerry, Regas said, he would say to them, Why is so little mentioned about the poor?''
In his own voice, Regas said: ''The religious right has drowned out everyone else. Now the faith of Jesus has come to be known as pro-rich, pro-war and pro-American…. I'm not pro-abortion, but pro-choice. There is something vicious and violent about coercing a woman to carry to term an unwanted child.
When you go into the voting booth, Regas told the congregation, take with you all that you know about Jesus, the peacemaker. Take all that Jesus means to you. Then vote your deepest values.
Owens, the tax attorney, said he was surprised that the IRS is pursuing the case despite explicit statements by Regas that he was not trying to influence the congregation's vote.
I doubt it's politically motivated, Owens said. I think it is more a case of senior management at IRS not paying attention to what the rules are.
According to Owens, six years ago the IRS used to send about 20 such letters to churches a year. That number has increased sharply because of the agency's recent delegation of audit authority to agents on the front lines, he said.
He knew of two other churches, both critical of government policies, that had received similar letters, Owens said.
It's unclear how often the IRS raises questions about the tax-exempt status of churches.
While such action is rare, the IRS has at least once revoked the charitable designation of a church.
Shortly before the 1992 presidential election, a church in Binghamton, N.Y., ran advertisements against Bill Clinton's candidacy, and the tax agency ruled that the congregation could not retain its tax-exempt status because it had intervened in an election.
Bacon said he thought the IRS would eventually drop its case against All Saints.
It is a social action church, but not a politically partisan church, he said.
Obama was a member of a church whose pastor said...
"God damm* America." Obama went to that church for 20 years.
Palin's husband was a member of the Alaskan Independence party several years ago, and this quote came from the head of the party.
I see absolutely NO difference. If you are going to condemn one, condemn both.
Keep it in church - it doesn't belong in government.
their unwavering belief, Christians are NOT the center-of-the-Universe.
small message, church lady...
The most significant thing to me in the entire video is "Vote your conscience." That speaks volumes.
Obama went to a racist church for 20 years...
and then, when it became detrimental to his drive to the Presidency, threw his pastor of 20 years and self-described mentor under the bus. And this inspires you that he is some kind of messiah-like figure interested in truth, justice, and the American way? You really believe that...with his history? Or do you even know his history...and better than that...even care about it?
It's called separation of church and state - nm
x
Excuse me, it is not about separation of church and state...
which words, by the way, do not appear in the constitution of these United States. It is about tax exempt status, and the IRS withholding that if politics is spoken from the pulpit. There are many, many tax exempt entities in this country, and NONE of them are barred from talking politics inside their doors. NONE of them. THAT is discrimination. If you are going to tie it to tax exempt status, then you need to tie it to tax exempt status PERIOD, across the board. Not just on churches.
|
