Israel has lauched ground operation...(sm)
Posted By: Just the big bad on 2009-01-03
In Reply to:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28404637
Notice the number of civilian casualties already. I guess the US is going to ignore that as well.
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Operation Northwoods
When 9/11 happened, the first thing that popped into my mind was Operation Northwoods. It was a scheme by our govt to sway the American people to go along with a war against Cuba. The govt would have CIA agents of Cuban descent invade a cruise ship along Floridas cost and kill some Americans which would make Americans so angry they would go along with a war with Cuba. The scheme was shelved and the documents kept under cover until recently. It has been said by quite a few that 9/11 was the same kind of scheme which was updated and that our govt had a hand in 9/11. Knowing the liar and warmonger and murderer Bush is and how Cheney was CEO for Hallibuton and, of course, they were salivating at getting control of a Middle Eastern country for oil, makes me wonder. Bin Laden worked for the CIA when Russia was in Afghanistan, he was **on our side**. Why havent we gotten him yet?? Does he know too much?? Will he tell too much?? There are too many questions for me concerning 9/11, the Afghan war, the Iraqi war, our **friendship** with Saddam in the past and selling him WMD. Our foreign policy for third world countries is so bloody, murderous and hateful, I gotta wonder why terrorists didnt strike us sooner.
They also reported that this operation is
in "retaliation" for those Israelis killed by Hamas bombings into Israel since the cease fire expired on December 19. Hamas launched their offensive because (as usual) Israel failed to live up to their end of the bargain and did not lift the blockade of supplies into Gaza, which was a precondition of the original cease fire (that lasted 6 months).
The report said that for all of 2008, Hamas had killed a grand total of 9 Israelis with their home-made missles, 2 of them being the ones you mentioned that occurred since this most recent operation. It is difficult to ascertain how many Palestinians have been killed in the past year by the Israelis just in their "normal" day-to-day policing in the occupied terrotories, but you can bet your bootie it's been more than 9.
Bottom line has not changed. That's life (and death) under occupation.
Operation Truth: Vets of the Week
Here's one of them, Daniel Goetz. There are others there, as well. I'm sure most of you know this site exists. I've added it to my Favorites. I'd also recommend reading Daniel Goetz' blog, as well.
Mesopotomac (Daniel Goetz) |
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 Seven months ago, my service in the army was to have terminated. Instead, I am in Iraq for the second time. I sit next to a DOD contractor whose job is identical to mine. Except he makes $120,000 more, works four hours less, and visits home four times more often than I do.
Daniel Goetz is currently serving in Samarra, Iraq. Read his blog here.
I am not alone in my anger and humiliation. When we were here in 2003, there was anger, but there is a difference between anger and bitter hatred. The atmosphere of discontent is thick and contagious. Even soldiers not stop-lossed feel The Betrayal. They know it might be them next time. Dissent will not change anything for us now because our voices are muted. Still, there is hope. It is that in twenty years, it will be these men and women in office. Perhaps, that alone should make me feel better. I don't think it is enough, though, for our wounded and fallen. I can't speak for them, of course. Not yet, at least.
I joined the army soon after I finished college; the decision was an amalgamation of desire to serve, to belong, and to repay student loans. I wanted the challenge to see if I really could be all I could be. Our country was a vastly different place then; one in which policemen, firemen, and servicemembers were no different than any other American. I had almost completed my two years of training to become an Arabic linguist when September Eleventh dramatically changed the nation's climate. I knew my own role would be pivotal, and was eager to see our country avenged on the battlefield.
Until then, I had a rather dim view of the army. Their promise to repay my college loans turned out to be false, and I was left to shoulder the massive burden of debt alone. My dismay melted away in the patriotic euphoria that enveloped the country in the run-up to our invasion of Iraq. Like the rest of the America, I clung fervently to the justifications for it. The underlying righteousness was my source of motivation when we crossed the Kuwait-Iraq border in March of 2003.
In the months that were to follow, those justifications collapsed - and with them, my confidence in a nation. In those days, my colleagues and I would often patrol the streets of Baghdad with the infantry in a bid to quell boredom. We were also looking for hope among the Iraqi people; we could live vicariously through their optimism, and perhaps therein find meaning for our occupation. But hope betrayed us as the insurgency swelled. It was when the fighting began again in earnest that we left Iraq. By the end of August, I was back in The United States, free to pretend Iraq never happened.
But it had. And nothing could wrench the darkest memories from repression like the knowledge that we were to return. Worse, our year in America was wasted. Almost every week, CSPAN would feature one committee or another complaining that our armed forces hadn't enough servicemembers in critical jobs like intelligence and military police. I wanted them to know how poorly we were thought of in our own units, and how little job-specific training we received before we left. At one point, we were told to study Arabic only on our own time. That was hardly possible when we were kept late every night, sometimes doing only menial tasks like weapons-cleaning until three in the morning.
The last straw was stop loss. My enlistment contract ended in March of this year. It is seven months hence, and I am still in Iraq. I propose that, in order for me to respect my commitment, the army ought to respect the contract we agreed upon. It was for five years, not six. Proponents of this form of conscription argue that I signed it nonetheless, fully aware of possible outcomes. True, I ought to have prepared myself better. But to remain bound to an expired commitment - exposed to prolonged peril in support of an unjustifiable cause - was beyond my expectations.
Today, I find the greatest challenge of the army is to find honor in service. I don't ever regret having joined because I've learned so much about myself and about America. I have faith in both, but yearn for hope to become reality. I want to go home as badly as I want to be proud of my country again. |
Oil above ground..........sm
I live on an 88-acre farm that is bisected by a creek. When my grandfather was live, back in the 1940s, he used to see oil on the top of the water in the creek, so he always believed there was oil on our place. There are several companies drilling all around us, but none have drilled on our place yet. We are leased until September with the company we are with now, so they had better hurry up if they want to drill here. When they were doing the seisomgraph work, the blasts messed up our wells, too.
Breeding ground
I agree 100%. When it's all said and done, there won't only be more of them, but they will have gained a lot of training and experience due to the extensive "practice" they've had in Iraq. I'm just afraid they will take all that and bring it here to the US. I'm also afraid this is going to continue for years and years. I thought this whole thing was described as being swift when Bush declared war.
I also wonder which life was better for Iraqis: Saddam Hussein's regime or George W. Bush's regime.
The videos that gt posted really hit me hard. One of them gave a glimpse of what life was like before we got there and what it was like once we invaded and occupied their country.
I would feel much more secure if steps were taken in this country to protect us, but I feel that another terror attack is inevitable, and I'm afraid the next one is going to be much worse than 9/11. I really fear for my daughter, son-in-law and grandchildren. Even if a miracle occurs and we aren't all obliterated under Bush's regime, my grandchildren will be paying for his war for decades to come.
This whole thing was just wrong, wrong, wrong, and I, too, wish we would just get it over with, kick some serious *s* and get out of there.
I believe that her having a son with boots on the ground...
qualifies her as the "resident expert" much more than you, Think liberal. Would it not? She is getting her information first hand. Where are you getting yours?
Why does she take it personally? You might want to put your brain in neutral and let compassion take over for a moment...it is not fatal. Then, I am thinking, you would not have asked such a silly question.
"It has nothing to do with the troops." Excuse me, WHAT??
There was suffering, starvation and death in Iraq long before we got there. At the hands of their "President." He still has a higher death toll of his own people than the casualities of this war from start to now. I personally would love to see the war footage, the Iraqi interviews, etc., on the cutting room floor at CNN...at MSNBC...at the networks. What never made it to the screen. What never made it past major news outlets' editors. Yep, I would LOVE to see that.
"Liberal thinker..." the difference appears to me to be, in you and that woman who posted about her son, is that she is honest and was not speaking from any political position and defending her son (and the military in general) from your attack. If her son was sending different pics and telling her that the war is not working, we should get out, etc., she would not be ignoring what he said and posting here to further a political agenda. She would most likely be posting what her son said and agreeing with you. Because her son is there, he has first-hand knowledge, and she believes him. On the other hand you, when presented with positive evidence from the horse's mouth, totally ignore and minimize it, as if in your world it does not matter. I do not want to think that positives do not matter in your world, but your posting does not give me that.
You basically chastize her for believing him and ridicule her for being patriotic. So basically you not only discarded the information, you had to shoot the messenger too.
Apparently when one becomes a "liberal thinker" one must abandon all compassion and the ability to think for one's self outside of any agenda. It starts in the brain and finds it's way out the mouth, but never even hesitates on its way past the heart. Sounds like a pretty desolate world to me. Which probably explains these posts.
Common ground! Woo-hoo! nm
Ground invasion may be necessary.
nm
Who has left this hole in the ground? sm
Keith Olbermann's Special Comments on Bush: Who has left this hold in the ground? We have not forgotten, Mr. President. You have. May this country forgive you.
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/09/11/keith-olbermanns-special-commnet-on-bush-who-has-left-this-hole-in-the-ground-we-have-not-forgotten-mr-president-you-have-may-this-country-forgive-you/
Also enjoys one-on-one ground-level
Wonder if she follows indigenous rule and only slays what she can eat? Not likely, considering her affinity for guns. What a gal, what a gal!
I think Bush has run this country into the ground.
the better with Obama in office instead of McCain and whatever her name is?????
Yup - running it straight into the ground.
X
I think we have found common ground
I don't usually agree with you, but in this case I do think we have found a common ground. I am amazed at the homophobia displayed here. I find it frightening that people can be so prejudiced. By the way, this is a pretty impressive list. Just think what we would have missed out on without the genius and talent of these individuals.
You tred on danger uniformed ground. NI
123
A government that taxes businesses into the ground...
is a main cause of offshoring. It costs more in taxes to do business in America than any other country in the world save one. And Obama wants to tax them even more, even the small business owners of the S corporation type. In order to fund a cut in tax for the people already in the lowest bracket who pay the lowest amount anyway. Thereby causing more small businesses to fail or cut back on staffing...causing more job loss instead of job creation. Sorry...that makes no sense to me.
Thanks for creating a breeding ground for terrorists W!
Subject: Fwd: Fw: ISRAELI'S ASSESMENT OF OUR SECURITY
Juval Aviv was the Israeli Agent upon whom the movie ' Munich ' was based. He was Golda Meir's bodyguard -- she appointed him to track down and bring to justice the Palestinian terrorists who took the Israeli athletes hostage and killed them during the Munich Olympic Games.
In a lecture in New York City a few weeks ago, he shared information that EVERY American needs to know -- but that our government has not yet shared with us.
He predicted the London subway bombing on the Bill O'Reilly show on Fox News stating publicly that it would happen within a week. At the time, O'Reilly laughed and mocked him saying that in a week he wanted him back on the show. But, unfortunately, within a week the terrorist attack had occurred.
Juval Aviv gave intelligence (via what he had gathered in Israel and the Middle East ) to the Bush Administration about 9/11 a month before it occurred. His report specifically said they would use planes as bombs and target high profile buildings and monuments. Congress has since hired him as a security consultant.
Now for his future predictions. He predicts the next terrorist attack on the U.S. will occur within the next few months.
Forget hijacking airplanes, because he says terrorists will NEVER try and hijack a plane again as they know the people onboard will never go down quietly again. Aviv believes our airport security is a joke -- that we have been reactionary rather than proactive in developing strategies that are truly effective.
For example:
1) Our airport technology is outdated. We look for metal, and the new explosives are made of plastic.
2) He talked about how some idjit tried to light his shoe on fire. Because of that, now everyone has to take off their shoes. A group of idiots tried to bring aboard liquid explosives. Now we can't bring liquids on board. He says he's waiting for some suicidal maniac to pour liquid explosive on his underwear; at which point, security wil l have us all traveling naked! Every strategy we have is 'reactionary.'
3) We only focus on security when people are heading to the gates.
Aviv says that if a terrorist attack targets airports in the future, they will target busy times on the front end of the airport when/where people are checking in. It would be easy for someone to take two suitcases of explosives, walk up to a busy check-in line, ask a person next to them to watch their bags for a minute while they run to the restroom or get a drink, and then detonate the bags BEFORE security even gets involved. In Israel , security checks bags BEFORE people can even ENTER the airport.
Aviv says the next terrorist attack here in America is imminent and will involve suicide bombers and non-suicide bombers in places where large groups of people congregate. (i. e., Disneyland, Las Vegas casinos, big cities (New York, San Francisco, Chicago, etc.) and that it will also include shopping malls, subways i n rush hour, train stations, etc., as well as rural America this time (Wyoming, Montana, etc.).
The attack will be characterized by simultaneous detonations around the country (terrorists like big impact), involving at least 5-8 cities, including rural areas.
Aviv says terrorists won't need to use suicide bombers in many of the larger cities, because at places like the MGM Grand in Las Vegas , they can simply valet park a car loaded with explosives and walk away.
Aviv says all of the above is well known in intelligence circles, but that our U. S. government does not want to 'alarm American citizens' with the facts.
The world is quickly going to become 'a different place', and issues like 'global warming' and political correctness will become totally irrelevant.
On an encouraging note, he says that Americans don't have to be concerned about being nuked. Aviv says the terrorists who want to destroy America will not use sophisticated weapons. They like to use suicide as a front-line approach. It's cheap, it's easy, it's effective; and they have an infinite abundance of young militants more than willing to 'meet their destiny'.
He also says the next level of terrorists, over which America should be most concerned, will not be coming from abroad. But will be, instead, 'homegrown' -- having attended and been educated in our own schools and universities right here in the U. S. He says to look for 'students' who frequently travel back and forth to the Middle East . These young terrorists will be most dangerous because they will know our language and will fully understand the habits of Americans; but that we Americans won't know/understand a thing about them.
Aviv says that, as a people, Americans are unaware and uneducated about the terroristic threats we w ill, inevitably, face. America still has only have a handful of Arabic and Farsi speaking people in our intelligence networks, and Aviv says it is critical that we change that fact SOON.
So, what can America do to protect itself?
From an intelligence perspective, Aviv says the U.S. needs to stop relying on satellites and technology for intelligence. We need to, instead, follow Israel 's, Ireland 's and England 's hands-on examples of human intelligence, both from an infiltration perspective as well as to trust 'aware' citizens to help. We need to engage and educate ourselves as citizens; however, our U. S. government continues to treat us, its citizens, 'like babies'. Our government thinks we 'can't handle the truth' and are concerned that we'll panic if we understand the realities of terrorism. Aviv says this is a deadly mistake.& nbsp;
Aviv recently created/executed a security test for our Congress, by placing an empty briefcase in five well-traveled spots in five major cities. The results? Not one person called 911 or sought a policeman to check it out. In fact, in Chicago , someone tried to steal the briefcase!
In comparison, Aviv says that citizens of Israel are so well 'trained' that an unattended bag or package would be reported in seconds by citizen(s) who know to publicly shout, 'Unattended Bag!' The area would be quickly & calmly cleared by the citizens themselves. But, unfortunately, America hasn't been yet 'hurt enough' by terrorism for their government to fully understand the need to educate its citizens or for the government to understand that it's their citizens who are, inevitably, the best first-line of defense against terrorism.
Aviv also was concerned about the high number of children here in America who were in preschool and kindergarten after 9/11, who were 'lost' without parents being able to pick them up, and about ours schools that had no plan in place to best care for the students until parents could get there. (In New York City , this was days, in some cases!)
He stresses the importance of having a plan, that's agreed upon within your family, to respond to in the event of a terroristic emergency. He urges parents to contact their children's schools and demand that the schools, too, develop plans of actions, as they do in Israel .
Does your family know what to do if you can't contact one another by phone? Where would you gather in an emergency? He says we should all have a plan that is easy enough for even our youngest children to remember and follow.
& nbsp;
Aviv says that the U. S. government has in force a plan that, in the event of another terrorist attack, will immediately cut-off EVERYONE's ability to use cell phones, blackberries, etc., as this is the preferred communication source used by terrorists and is often the WA y that their bombs are detonated.
How will you communicate with your loved ones in the event you cannot speak? You need to have a plan.
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He did not let it touch the ground - he didn't "wad" it up
If that's what you saw, then the only thing I can say is you were all for the Mexican flag flying above the American flag. This hero came in and cut it away from the other flag and did not let it touch the ground (which you obviously do not know is a sign of respect). But you cannot fold it properly by yourself. He also had the courage to stand in front of the camera and give his name and what he was doing. He did not wad up the flag, he put it under his arm to take back to wherever he went and give it the respect it deserves. The people who had their flag flying above the American flag should be arrested, deported back to Mexico where they can fly their flag above others, and their business should be shut down. What do you think would have happened if someone had flown the American flag above the mexican flag in their own country?
Get a grip!!!!!!!!
The longer this goes on, the bigger terrorist breading ground sm
Iraq becomes. This is getting past ridiculous. Now, I don't think we should just pull out, but I think we need to let them have it, and there will be more US casualties, and get out ASAP.
You take the moral high ground and watch video
nm
For me change. Bush had experience and look what he did...run our economy down to the ground..nm
3
The breeding ground started long before Bush
I for one have never cared for allowing Iranian and Iraqi students into this country; I went to school over 20 years ago where Iranian and Iraqi students came to study, but we were always curious as to what they were really doing here. They were not sociable, did not want to tell you why they were here, and constantly went back and forth to their country several times a semester. They never even tried to fit in with their surroundings. They were openly vulgar and critical of the United States, but we allowed their sorry butts here to study?
If they want an education, let them get it in their own country and somewhere else. I don't feel sorry for them one bit. When we asked why we never saw any female Iranian/Iraqi students, they were always quick to let us know females were not important, did not need to be educated, and that God did not make females their equal. And they were always quick to let us know they believed ALL western females to be whore-like and sluts.
But doesn't shale oil extraction use huge amounts of ground water? sm
I've heard there are enviromental issues that we haven't really delved into yet, such as contamination of your drinking water if you're on a well.
I understand that, if the people on the ground in hurricane country werwe not immediately alarmed...
why on earth would someone expect George Bush to be? He was relying on the local and state authorities to do their jobs. Kathleen Blanco knows that she messed up...which is why she is no longer in LA politics. All I am saying that everyone should share the blame...not one man.
Israel
There are many jews who do not like Sharon, many. I could post what they say about him but I wont. However, posting about great leaders, I grew up loving absolutely loving Golda Meir..The situation in Israel is not ours to decide or get heated about..the situation we need to get heated about is America. To try to tie jews and christians together happily cannot happen. For many many years christians did not even acknowledge jews or their beliefs, now all of a sudden lets get together as we believe as one, however, we do not believe as one, not at all. I have watched this over a few years, the christians are trying to hook onto jews as they think well, we both believe in the Bible so we believe the same. We do not believe the same. First of all, we do not believe in the new testament, we do not believe in hell, many of us do not even believe in a heaven and we do not believe in jesus as a savior. He was a jewish man who taught peace and love and tolerance but nothing more. Our savior has not come yet. I think you truly pray and feel for Israel, however, maybe you can take a few courses of Judaism at a local synagogue and understand us more. I know my local synagogue has courses for non jews to learn more about us.
Oil from Israel
Has anyone researched that? In the coming future, Russia will attack Israel. Those who have researched prophecies of the future of the world believe a gusher of this oil wealth is soon coming from Israel, and Russia (amazingly not called Soviet Union in these prophecies of 1100+ years ago) will form an Islamic alliance (they really don't want to) and will come down from the north and attack unwalled villages, supposedly for this sudden great wealth of oil. However, Israel has built walls all over the place. So, this attack will probably happen after the one world leader soon to appear on the world scene offers a convincing (but false) peace and Israel tears the walls down. I have been to Russia, and it is so different from what was promised to the Russian people back when my parents were very young. Then, it was a revolution similar to what Castro was supposed to have done, and now what Chavez is supposedly doing. I saw the apartments, hospitals, schools, etc., in Russia. Yes, Kruschev said there were no homeless people. I only saw people who had to live in apartments where the government dictated that they live and no freedom to express their opinion. Their cost to live in these apartments - free. Our cost to have the freedom in America to say what we want to - priceless. Anyone remember that guy that wrote, The Late Great Planet Earth, back in the 1970's. He now has a program called International Intelligence Briefing. Check your local/cable listings. If you know of any others like him who have researched this other side of the (global) story, please let me know. Thanks.
Israel was willing........... sm
to give the Gaza Strip to the Palestinians in 2005 and allow them to govern it on their own, but that wasn't good enough for the Palestinians.
China has given us untold amounts of money. Does that mean that China has a say in how our country should be run?
I stand on my previous statements that any country that does not support Israel (and I don't mean just monetarily)is barking up the wrong olive tree.
do you really think it is just to let Israel
take the whole of Palestine? Does not matter what the Bible says!
US, Israel planned ME war
Why does none of this surprise me?
'US, Israel planned ME war'
13/08/2006 11:06 - (SA) |
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New York - The US government was closely involved in the planning of Israel's military operations against Islamic militant group Hezbollah even before the July 12 kidnapping of two Israeli soldiers, The New Yorker magazine reported in its latest issue.
The kidnapping triggered a month-long Israeli operation in South Lebanon that is expected to come to an end on Monday.
But Pulitzer Prize-winning US journalist Seymour Hersh writes that President George W Bush and vice president Dick Cheney were convinced that a successful Israeli bombing campaign against Hezbollah could ease Israel's security concerns and also serve as a prelude to a potential US pre-emptive attack to destroy Iran's nuclear installations.
Citing an unnamed Middle East expert with knowledge of the current thinking of the Israeli and US governments, Israel had devised a plan for attacking Hezbollah - and shared it with Bush administration officials - well before the July 12 kidnappings.
The expert added that the White House had several reasons for supporting a bombing campaign, the report said.
If there was to be a military option against Iran, it had to get rid of the weapons Hezbollah could use in a potential retaliation against Israel, Hersh writes.
Citing a US government consultant with close ties to Israel, Hersh also reports that earlier this summer, before the Hezbollah kidnappings, several Israeli officials visited Washington to get a green light for a bombing operation following a Hezbollah provocation, and to find out how much the United States would bear.
The Israelis told us it would be a cheap war with many benefits, the magazine quotes the consultant as saying. Why oppose it? We'll be able to hunt down and bomb missiles, tunnels, and bunkers from the air. It would be a demo for Iran.
US government officials have denied the charges.
Nonetheless, Hersh writes, a former senior intelligence official says some officers serving with the Joint Chiefs of Staff remain deeply concerned that the administration will have a far more positive assessment of the air campaign than they should.
There is no way that (defence secretary Donald) Rumsfeld and Cheney will draw the right conclusion about this, the report quotes the former official as saying. When the smoke clears, they'll say it was a success, and they'll draw reinforcement for their plan to attack Iran.
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Israel solution
Move the state of Israel to Virginia, Jerry Fallwell and Pat Robertson can fight over the honor, and see how much y'all love Israel then.
I am not asking you to discuss Israel. sm
I know that it happens all the time. I am sorry that it does.
You don't have to go to Israel to know right from wrong.
Occupation, blockade, genocidal war of attrition, settlement expansion, diasporas of refugees, no right to return, the wall, imposition of police state, creation of open air prisons/terrorist breeding gounds, countless treaty violations, repeated invasions, plunder of resources, wholesale murderous slaughter featuring killing, generations of widows, widowers and orphans, maiming for life and massive destruction of property...just to name a few things off the top of my head.
Why Israel Fights
Why the Israeli attack helps the US by taking on Hamas now and why this time Israel may succeed in Gaza. A well-written perspective on Gaza, Israel, Hamas. This adds more to consider as we all discuss this war.
Why Israel Fights
By WILLIAM KRISTOL
Published: January 4, 2009
The Israeli assault on Hamas in Gaza is going to be a replay, we’re told, of the attempt to subdue Hezbollah in southern Lebanon in the summer of 2006. And the outcome, it’s asserted, will be the same: lots of death and destruction, no strategic victory for Israel and a setback for all who seek peace and progress in the Middle East.
Obviously, war is an unpredictable business, so I say this with some trepidation: I think the conventional wisdom will be proved wrong. Israel could well succeed in Gaza.
For one thing, southern Lebanon is a substantial and hilly area, bordered by northern Lebanon and Syria, through which Hezbollah could be re-supplied, both by Syria itself and by Iran. Gaza is a flat, narrow strip, bordered by Israel, as well as by the sea and by Egypt, no friend to Hamas. By cutting off the northern part of Gaza from the southern, Israel has basically surrounded northern Gaza, creating a military situation very different from that in Lebanon in 2006.
What’s more, the Israeli leadership seems aware of the mistakes — political, strategic and military — it made in Lebanon. That doesn’t mean it won’t make them all over again. The same prime minister, Ehud Olmert, is in charge, after all. But, today’s defense minister, Ehud Barak, is very different from his predecessor, the weak and unqualified Amir Peretz. So far as one can tell, the Gaza operation seems to have been well-planned and is being methodically executed, in sharp contrast to the Lebanon incursion. Barak has also warned that the operation could be long and difficult, lowering expectations by contrast with the Israeli rhetoric of July 2006.
In addition, in Lebanon, Israel proclaimed war goals that it couldn’t achieve — such as retrieving its two kidnapped soldiers and disarming Hezbollah. Now the Israeli government says that it seeks to weaken Hamas, lessen its ability to fire rockets from Gaza and secure new arrangements along the Egyptian-Gaza border to prevent Hamas from re-arming. These may well be achievable goals.
And, of course, not all military efforts against terror fail. Recall Israel’s incursion into the West Bank in the spring of 2002, when, under the leadership of Ariel Sharon, Israel succeeded in ripping up established terror networks and began the defeat of the second intifada. Israel also was able to avoid a long-term re-occupation, while retaining the ability to go back in on anti-terror missions. What’s more, the 2002 bloodshed didn’t seem to do lasting damage to hopes for progress or moderation on the West Bank. After all, it’s Gaza, from which Israel withdrew in 2005, not the West Bank, that became a Hamas stronghold.
An Israeli success in Gaza would be a victory in the war on terror — and in the broader struggle for the future of the Middle East. Hamas is only one manifestation of the rise, over the past few decades, of a terror-friendly and almost death-cult-like form of Islamic extremism. The combination of such terror movements with a terror-sponsoring and nuclear-weapons-seeking Iranian state (aided by its sidekick Syria) has produced a new kind of threat to Israel.
But not just to Israel. To everyone in the Middle East — very much including Muslims — who aren’t interested in living under the sway of extremist regimes. And to any nation, like the United States, that is a target of Islamic terror. So there are sound reasons why the United States — whether led by George W. Bush or Barack Obama — will stand with Israel as it fights.
But Israel — assuming it succeeds — is doing the United States a favor by taking on Hamas now.
The huge challenge for the Obama administration is going to be Iran. If Israel had yielded to Hamas and refrained from using force to stop terror attacks, it would have been a victory for Iran. If Israel were now to withdraw under pressure without accomplishing the objectives of severely weakening Hamas and preventing the reconstitution of a terror-exporting state in Gaza, it would be a triumph for Iran. In either case, the Iranian regime would be emboldened, and less susceptible to the pressure from the Obama administration to stop its nuclear program.
But a defeat of Hamas in Gaza — following on the heels of our success in Iraq — would be a real setback for Iran. It would make it easier to assemble regional and international coalitions to pressure Iran. It might positively affect the Iranian elections in June. It might make the Iranian regime more amenable to dealing.
With respect to Iran, Obama may well face — as the Israeli government did with Hamas — a moment when the use of force seems to be the only responsible option. But Israel’s willingness to fight makes it more possible that the United States may not have to.
Who does Israel belong to? So you are saying
the U.N. overstepped its bounds? And what about the United Kingdom that controlled the area in the early 1900s?
Like it or not nations are formed through civil war. There are winners and there are losers. It's really very simple. The process has not changed for centuries and it will never change. The strong prevail. The righteous prevail. The minute we take a liberal viewpoint, that's the exact minute we become weak.
So, even after Israel withdrew from
Gaza, the Hamas still continued bombing Israel. Who is the aggressor?
Yep those mean conservatives are over there helping Israel
Yep, they'll be back when all the Lebanese are dead, because all us conservatives are evil like that.
No, they live in the US, and the US backs Israel.nm
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I have studied U.S./Israel relations
I have studied U.S./Israel relations extensively. I fully understand that the protestors do not share my point of view as well as you. From reading your copious posts I am very clear on where you stand. I will not be so presumptious as to think I know your biography, but you obviously believe everything wrong in the world has U.S. origins. I believe you are wrong beyond a shadow of a doubt, but I will not try to change your mind. Since liberals in general are so worried about how the rest of the world thinks about us I will bring to your attention that it becomes ever more clear by your stances and views as with those on the extreme left that you all side with terrorism. You can spin it any way you want, but you come off as supporting terrorists.
This describes most experts on Israel. TI
A breyre hob ich (I have no alternative), the mind is closed here. It is not really such a phenomenon. All is bashert (predestined). Even in the Jewish community, there is division. The Jews in the United States, many of them, have lost communion with the Jews left in Israel, though we are seeing some coming back, rediscovering the cause. Then have a benken (longing, yearning) inside them and they are drawn back to the homeland. They are welcome. As for what is said here, it is really not debate at all is it? It was silly of me to have tried. There are better battles and bigger stakes than most imagine. Alaichem sholom (peace to you). If it please Hashem.
oops: I did mean Israel & Iran.
Afghanistan & Pakistan are no picnic, either.
What makes you think Israel will succeed in
"defeating" the Palestinians this time around. Bullying swagger and bravado certainly won't make it so. Goliath has not been able to slay David in the last 60 years. You think they will pick up their marbles and go quietly into the night? There is only one thing that can change the course of this cycling hell-on-earth.
REPEAT: It's the occupation. End it or live in fear for all eternity.
I lived in Israel for many years
and what has happened has more to do with the upcoming election in Israel than with the US. Check it out.
Wrong again! With or without the U.S., Israel will always prevail.
Just keep watching. Obama will withdrawal American support from Israel, I'm sure, and Israel will STILL prevail.
Israel will prevail.......it is ordained by God
And even Obama can't do anything about that but that's not to say Israel hasn't done its share of manipulating the Arabs....they helped form Hamas for the purpose of overthrowing the PLO and look where it got them...... more trouble!
Does really need to be said that Israel is predominantly Jewish?
When I speak of Israel, I speak of the Jews.
You Said: "And yes, I did bring Hitler into the conversation. He systematically tied to wipe out a group of people, which is exactly what Israel is doing right now."
That statement is exactly what makes you anti-Semitic. The fact that you can compare Israel to Nazi Germany is obscene and anti-Semitic. You are using something horrific done to the Jews (who make up 75% or more of the Israeli population) and using it to illustrate what you perceive is going on in the Gaza Strip. Can you not find some other means to make your point other than conjuring up prejudice perpetrated by Hitler? Could you have maybe made your comparison to Kosovo/Bosnia? Nope, you chose the holocaust to illustrate your point. You intent was to shock and to be controversial. You wanted to provoke a reaction.
What exactly did you think using the name "Hitler" would provoke? You argument in and of itself is anti-Semitic.
By the way, I am a messianic Jew. I know a little bit about anti-Semitism. So before you continue to insult both my intelligence and my homeland, choose your words wisely.
No, it is not, but US supports Israel every year with
billions of dollars and the newest military technology.
Former Israeli administrations already agreed to a 2-state solution. The Palestinians would get the Westbank as their state. Instead of keeping their promise, Israel started to build the 20-meter-high separation wall and building settlements for the Israelis.
Obama wants this to stop and Netanyahu does not want to comply as a hardline right-winger. It is Netanyahu who wants the whole occupied Palestine for Israel and does not want a 2-state solution. He wouldn't even 'utter' the term ƈ-state solution,' not even when he was discussing this issue with Obama in Washington; he just circled around it.
This does not come out of my head, I am very literate, informed, I look around what is going on in the world, always, I am tolerant and fair.
You are wrong: Obama is not against Israel,
he is for a 2-state solution: The Westbank and Gaza for the Palestinians, ALL the rest for Israel. I think that the Palestinians have a right to a 'small' part of Palestine, as they were the first to be in the Holy Land and there were several agreements under previous US administrations, also Bush's, that implemented this right.
Why should Israel have it all and the Palestinians nothing? Where should the Palestinians go who live in the by Isreal occupied territories that were promised to them? This constant back and forth struggle between Israel and the Palestinians, especially the Israeli attacks on Gaza, have the goal to make whole Palestine an Israeli state.
Even on the Israeli side there are a lot of voices who think that the Palestinians have a right to their own state and admit that bringing this problem to a solution (2-state) will solve a lot of problems, as it constitutes the root problem in the Middle East.
It is all about justice and fairness!
You are wrong: Obama is not against Israel,
he is for a 2-state solution: The Westbank and Gaza for the Palestinians, ALL the rest for Israel. I think that the Palestinians have a right to a 'small' part of Palestine, as they were the first to be in the Holy Land and there were several agreements under previous US administrations, also Bush's, that implemented this right.
Why should Israel have it all and the Palestinians nothing? Where should the Palestinians go who live in the by Isreal occupied territories that were promised to them? This constant back and forth struggle between Israel and the Palestinians, especially the Israeli attacks on Gaza, have the goal to make whole Palestine an Israeli state.
Even on the Israeli side there are a lot of voices who think that the Palestinians have a right to their own state and admit that bringing this problem to a solution (2-state) will solve a lot of problems, as it constitutes the root problem in the Middle East.
It is all about justice and fairness!
You are wrong: Obama is not against Israel,
he is for a 2-state solution: The Westbank and Gaza for the Palestinians, ALL the rest for Israel. I think that the Palestinians have a right to a 'small' part of Palestine, as they were the first to be in the Holy Land and there were several agreements under previous US administrations, also Bush's, that implemented this right.
Why should Israel have it all and the Palestinians nothing? Where should the Palestinians go who live in the by Isreal occupied territories that were promised to them? This constant back and forth struggle between Israel and the Palestinians, especially the Israeli attacks on Gaza, have the goal to make whole Palestine an Israeli state.
Even on the Israeli side there are a lot of voices who think that the Palestinians have a right to their own state and admit that bringing this problem to a solution (2-state) will solve a lot of problems, as it constitutes the root problem in the Middle East.
It is all about justice and fairness!
But it was during the1848 Israel/Arab war
that Israel was created, sending millions of Palestinians refugees out of Palestine into neighboring Arab countries and occupying Palestine.
But it was during the1948 Israel/Arab war
that Israel was created, sending millions of Palestinians refugees out of Palestine into neighboring Arab countries and occupying Palestine.
I think if Israel slings anything at Iran....
it would not just be rockets, and if someone had said I had no right to exist, I might consider slinging some rockets at them myself. I'm just sayin.
And as to Obama being able to hold them back...if he can't be bothered to shake his finger at Iran for crushing protests on worldwide TV, what on earth would make you think he could or would if he could hold Israel back? I have seen nothing to indicate that Barack Obama cares a hoot in heck what happens to Israel. If you look at his connections and who he has loaded his administration with...their agenda is certainly not pro Israel and to be frank I believe they consider Israel expendable, and if the palestinians get taken out as collateral damage...well...you should watch that posted video, and then you should look at a list of the Bilderberg group. Funny how the left always wanted to talk about it because there were many of right in the group...well, there are certainly a lot more of the left in it, and a ton of those are in the present administration. But now that they are in power, amazing how the Bilderberg group is no longer the big bad...sorry for borrowing your moniker there. lol.
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