Many of them are innocent and should be sent home to their families.
Posted By: sm on 2009-01-19
In Reply to: I was wondering what you think we ought to do with - Lu
You should be more frightened of the American prisoners than the alleged terrorists that we have illegally held in Gitmo and tortured with the permission of George W. Bush and his cronies.
I am guessing Fort Leavenworth was there before you took up residence. If you don't like living near a prison, you are free to move.
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95 percent of WORKING families, not welfare families sm
Working families will get the tax break, not welfare families. The money will come from removing the tax breaks for the rich. Obama is going back to the exact tax structure Clinton had. That is when we were in the black. Bush came into office and gave the rich a break. Very simple to understand, but I guess not for Fox news watchers.
Go home Obama! Go home McCain!
t
Tell that to the families of the 100,000
Bet they might beg to differ.
I am sorry for their families.
x
Yes, there are other families (liberals)
with the same problems as well. Bush's family seems to take the lead as far as number of people who are drunks or drug addicts.
Now, if you don't mind, I think I will stop responding to your posts. It's much more entertaining watching you talking to yourself on this board.
I hope you find the attention you so desperately seek, but you're not getting any more of it from me.
Have a pleasant day, dear. 
Tell that to the 7300 families who are..sm
without jobs. How are they different from DHL's 9000????
The point is that America is crumbling down around our ears faster than we can sweep up. I'm not blaming Bush, I'm not blaming Obama. I am just stating the obvious. America is dying..........is there a doctor in the house?
I never ever judge people by their families. sm
I hope no one ever judges me by mine! No, I don't think he meant what he said. I believe they mean he was a deputy for 17 years. It said 17-year, not year-old. :)
Kids from families making as much as $83,000
Bush was lying about that, as the $83,000 income level limit was not a part of the bill that he vetoed. Also, Democrats already worked with Republicans and compromised quite a bit to come up with a bill that many in both parties agreed upon - too bad only one guy matters, huh? It's a sad day for many struggling middle-class families, but at least the issue has had a big spot light shined upon it - hopefully we can make some much-needed changes to make healthcare more affordable now. All kids deserve healthcare, regardless of how much money their parents make or don't make!!!
Here's a section of a New York Times Article that states that the $83,000 guideline was not a part of the bill that was just vetoed:
"This program expands coverage, federal coverage, up to families earning $83,000 a year. That doesn't sound poor to me," the president told the Lancaster audience.
Dorn says that's not exactly right, either. "This bill would actually put new limits in place to keep states from going to very high-income levels. SCHIP money would no longer be available over 300 percent of the federal poverty level, which is about $60,000 for a family of four."
The president gets to make the $83,000 claim because New York had wanted to allow children in families with incomes up to four times the poverty level onto the program. That is, indeed, $82,600. The Department of Health and Human Services rejected New York's plan last month, and under the bill, that denial would stand. White House officials warn, however, that the bill would allow a future administration to grant New York's request.
link to the entire article: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=14962685
You have an issue...dissecting families.
Nice.
You are right, both sides have beautiful families sm
Obamas/Biden's and McCain/Palin.
Though, I don't know how real Cindy McCain is.
O will cut taxes for 95% to benefit WC families.
Then ask yourself which group you fall into. If you are in the top 5% economic class or area huge corporation, then by all means you should not vote for O. Take off your party hat and give this some real consideration.
The money from employees and their families...
is called "bundling." Lobbyists use "bundling" to get around finance limits.
The donkey in the room here, that you seem content to ignore, is that the Democrats, including Barack Obama, created this mess. They had a chance to stop it in 2005-2006 and did not. That is a fact. McCain tried to get legislation passed, they balked. If they did not do it for mnoney, I don't know why they did it...but the fact is, they did it, and WE are left holding the bag. And now, when Obama has a chance to help fix it, he is refusing again. Said "call me if you need me." Well I want a President I don't have to call. I expect when he is "multitasking" that he prioritizes, and the looming economic failure and the $700 billion it is going to take to get us out of it, is more important than a debate. What difference does 3 days make in the face of that?
Families abandon their own a lot anymore.
nm
Exactly. News states that 9/11 families
take the terrorists in his district of Pennsylvania.
U.S. Cole Families are supposedly
going to be on Fox news "later today." Just heard this. Supposedly they were at the White House in a meeting and after they left the meeting, they were not allowed back on the White House grounds. So, they're all going to Fox News to be interviewed.
U.S. Cole Families are supposedly
going to be on Fox news "later today." Just heard this. Supposedly they were at the White House in a meeting and after they left the meeting, they were not allowed back on the White House grounds. So, they're all going to Fox News to be interviewed.
Obama and USS Cole families
"It has been reported that the mother of one of the men killed on the USS Cole regrets that she voted for Obama, so there is at least 1 person who does not support him. "
Obama met with the families of the USS Cole, talked to them and listened to their concerns. That shows a lot of class and compassion. He explained that those who are responsible and need to be detained will be, and those who are not guilty will not be held. The one who just had the charges dropped will be recharged. They are trying to resolve the illegality/nebulous state of affairs at Guantanamo - not release dangerous terrorists into our midst. These, despite Rush's insistence, are not mutually inclusive terms.
Just saw 911 families speaking of their disgust with
nm
Yes, but families are in Mexico and South America.
That was my point. Of course, I have no idea what prices are down there. Never been.
Feelings, goals, interests, families...
yes. Normal no. Tolerance is far different than acceptance. I and no one in my huge family has ever harmed a person who indulges in homosexual acts. We are as tolerant as you can get as I imagine millions of others are. Just saying that homosexuality is wrong is construed to be intolerance or verbal abuse by the homosexual community.
There are many families of the fallen who praise Bush and I'm not outraged. sm
I don't understand them, but there's no outrage.
Like I said before grief is different for everyone and for people to continue to say "she's done a 360," to me is not really relevent. Most intelligent people know that grief has stages and this lady is entitled to change her mind, her feelings. That's something the neocons can't grasp, why I'm not sure. Maybe after reality and permancy set in, her feelings changed. This lady has lost her son, and you actually think she's camping out for political reasons. I mean come on. That's a ridiculous argument.
I dont think that he HAS to speak to the lady again because he has already had his press time with her while she praised him, BUT what does he have to lose by speaking with this lady again.
I posted under Libby's post which brother up *other* families
Libby made it fair game. She brought it up...
I did not say innocent.........
She opted to have all of the eggs implanted (not the norm and outside ethical responsibility). They erroneously thought she had 7 viable fetuses (the 8th was hidden somewhere.....). The doc should have pushed for selective termination to reduce the number. The fact that she chose to carry them all to term indicates to me that she is short a few fries of a happy meal. I suspect she knew she would make headlines and that would ignite support from all over in the form of gifts, cash, etc., so she could continue her "puppy mill" in relative financial comfort. I still stand by the assumption she's nuts and the doc made a huge mistake.
I know that innocent
people have gone through horrible things when they were wrongly accused, etc. However, there are so many more of them that are guilty. My biggest problem with the death penalty is that it is so expensive. A rope or a bullet is a lot cheaper than lethal injections. I personally feel that if we were harsher on prisoners....more of them would stop doing it. A three strikes your out kind of thing. We have so many prisons that are overcrowded that criminals, rapists, etc. are being send out early risking many more innocent lives that way.
If Rove is innocent
why didnt he come forward before now and state what actually went down? Because of his silence, Judith Miller is in jail, Matthew Cooper was threatened with jail, thousands of tax dollars have been spent on a Grand Jury and a special prosecutor and now quite possibly a trial.
Yes, he was acquitted. But he was not innocent....
we all know that. We saw him commit perjury. National TV. Yes, my fangs are showing. I don't like it when Pres of US flaunts the law and Congress lets him get away with it. Actually, I blame Congress just as much, but sides of the house, because they did not have the integrity NOR the guts to convict him. At least when Nixon was proven to be guilty he still had a modicum of decency and resigned. Clinton did not have enough class OR integrity to do the same. 'Nuff said.
Oh of course....in the land where you are innocent if...
proven not guilty...you are seizing on poor judgment. Don't you think it is poor judgment to consort with terrorists and spend 20 years in an america-hating church? This is not bad judgment? McCain did not cost us anything. Keating, the one who perpetrated the financial debacle...is responsible for that loss.
Innocent people s/m
I hear that there is not a guilty person in prison. Another thing that needs fixed in our government at all levels, justice depends on how much money you have. I really, really doubt that there are that many truly innocent people on death row. I think that before an execution, there should be absolutely no doubt about guilt. Say O.J. and Scott Peterson. Don't you think they deserve the death penalty. Well, I know that O.J. was found not guilty but no doubt in my mind he was guilty as sin.
Good, they might be innocent. sm
They call Americans who quote the constitution or dissent terrorists.
Just like all those innocent folks were
due process. . .preach some of your idiocracy to their survivors.
I do not think that she was an innocent guinea pig....sm
How would you have reacted being informed within a couple of weeks by US that you will deliver not 1, but e i g h t babies, in addition to already having 6 ?
Wouldn't you have asked for a termination?
Do you also defend the innocent
people in our local prisons because I'm sure that there are a few in there who are actually innocent......however, most of them are NOT.
As for me not knowing for sure whether they were indeed tortured or not......how do you know that they were tortured? Were you there? Did you talk to them? Do you have a pin pal at Gitmo, do ya?
I'm sure there are some innocent men at Gitmo but this is war. It was war when the terrorists killed thousands of Americans in one day and then celebrated their actions. We have gone from a 9/11 mentality to a pre 9/11 mentality. We seem to have forgetten that we were attacked and that these people desire nothing more than our death.
these 4 are innocent Gitmos.............sm
' The four were among 17 Chinese Muslims, or Uighurs, picked up in Afghanistan and Pakistan in 2001. They remained at the military detention center in Cuba
even after the U.S. government had determined they weren't enemy combatants and should be released.
Their fate was in limbo for months while courts and nations debated their future.'
I'm not talking about innocent people
I'm talking about people who raping, pillaging, setting fires, shooting rescuers, and stealing ambulances. I have heard of no one but you defending this though I'm sure there's a minority fringe like you who are such as Molly Ivins etc. I think your post revealed to me how out of the mainstream of thinking you are.
By the way, New Orleans had one of the highest crime rates in the country before the hurricane. There are people from that city who are freely admitting that there were places you didn't want to be caught dead in.
Honestly you don't believe there is evil in the world. I really feel sorry for you for that, because one day you will most likely be a victim and then you will be very confused....
That's *innocent* until proven guilty...sm
I don't know which way it will go, but when you tell the truth your story never changes - his did over and over and over.
Yes, this is an innocent child. What if it ISN'T true?
What does this do to that 16-year-old? What about that?
JM is totally innocent of this same charge?
publically stepped up and appealed to his supporters to rein it in. O at least tries to do this when he sees tings getting out of hand.
I too am for defending innocent animals
People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. ALL animals should be treated in a humane fashion.
I am offended that people will defend wildlife and endangered species but they think nothing of eating meat and animals that have been treated cruelly.
How can you say it's cruel to hunt animals, but you don't think it's cruel how chickens, cattle, pigs and other animals are treated before you (no, not you personally because I don't know if your a vegetarian) but people who are not vegetarians will think nothing and don't care how the animals they are eating are being treated.
what about those folks we swept up who are entirely innocent?
nm
They're ALL innocent...ask 'em!
x
WHAT is GOOD about that? Especially if the prisoner is innocent.
Even the guilty ones might just confess to ANYTHING, just to stop the torture that often goes so far as to cripple a human being for life.
I defend all innocent people....nm
nm
99% of the Abu Ghraib detainees were innocent....sm
and were tortured!
UPDATE yourself!
He is *innocent* but is up to his eyeballs in lies and deciet...sm
If he had been honest and up front, you know the way you expected President Clinton to be about his sex life, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Why do you defend killing of innocent civilians?
I have never said I defend Hezbollah. I don't defend Hezbollah. They're terrorists, and they're horrible.
But blindly defending Israel, regardless of what they do, doesn't work for me either. What is most disquieting to me is that you defend Israel's placement of landmines to kill innocent civilians, designed to go off at a later date when people least expect it? Why don't you consider that terrorism, as well?
Hmmm...innocent until proven guilty....
you certainly don't think that about George Bush and Dick Cheney, do you? I don't see you asking fellow liberals not to make judgments until they are proven guilty by a jury of their peers...? LOL. Ahem. Think the hippocracy is showing there a little bit. I certainly don't think Kam is considering them innocent until proven guilty, nor are any of the rest of you by your posts. I believe she considers them guilty and impeachment a formality. So please stop with the noble innocent until proven guilty and that is the best system. You don't believe it across the board, so don't speechify. It rings hollow.
And what makes you think I have always voted a Republican ticket? I can tell you right now, I have not, especially in congressional races where I think the most difference is made.
There is nothing to say that Ron Paul would not be a great President. I threw his name out there because he is so radically different than any other Republican running and any Democrat running. Would not surprise me if he lost the Repub nomination and ran as an Independent, which would give disgusted folks such as myself and Kam a real alternative. But Kam is not disgusted with politics. She hates George Bush and she would not vote for a Republican no matter WHAT he or she said, she said as much. And that is what is wrong with politics today, as you have stated so many times and accused me of not wanting change because I said I would never vote for a Democrat. I said I would not vote for a pro abortion Democrat if I have an alternate choice, you are right. But, there are pro life Democrats and I have voted for some for congressional seats. And would continue to do so if I felt they were the most qualified person on the ticket. That is the reason I threw his name out. The only thing that goes against him being able to make any meaningful change is that Congress would hamstring him. If we really want change, we need an independent prez AND an independent congress. That won't happen this election cycle. That kind of change will take years. It could start with this one, and I think that is exactly what Pelosi is trying to avoid by not letting an impeachment go forward right now...too much might come out.
I am not victimized. If anyone is victimized it is poor Kam with that virulent hatred for George Bush. It sounds like it consumes every waking moment. Good grief. I go on about my daily life just like anyone else does, and in the grand scheme of things, WHOever is elected President has his/her work cut out for him/her, we all know that. If it is a Democrat, all I know for absolutely sure is my taxes are going to go up and social programs won't be reined in, they will just get money thrown at them, and if that doesn't fix them, we will get more programs. It has happened every time. And if there is anything in this country that needs to be fixed, that's it. That is another priority for me, and yes, my congresspeople could attest to that from the sheaves of paper they have received from me.
If it is a Republican, what happens depends upon which one it is. If it is Guiliani, I don't see much difference in he and most Democrats and I would have to weigh him against whatever Dem gets the nomination. If it is Romney, I think the man can balance the budget and get runaway spending under control, because say what you want about the man, he is a financial genius and the government is the biggest business there is, and frankly it needs to be run like one. So, if he is the nominee, most likely he will get my vote, because I think it is HIGH time that someone starts to run the government like a business and gets runaway spending under control, starting with social programs. That is so broken it screams to be fixed.
If nominee is Thompson, he will get my vote. For many reasons, the most important of which is putting power back in the states that the feds have stolen over the years. States have demonstrated time and time again they administer their affairs much better than when the Feds get into it. And states may be able to put enough pressure on their reps that Congress might actually do something about that, even if there is a Dem majority. One can only hope. Ron Paul believes that too, and I am in agreement with him on that. We certainly don't need as much centralized power in DC as we have right now. I will vote for the man (or woman) I feel most qualified and most closely follows my vision for the country, just like I would hope everyone else does.
Kam is disgusted, but it is more about her healthy hatred for the MAN George Bush, and the MAN Cheney which has nothing to do with politics and one need only read her posts about them to see that. Which is all well and good, and that is her right and I would argue for her right to say so. Her crusade is to punish George Bush and I don't really think that is going to cure what is wrong with politics in this country. If she thinks Obama is the answer, then I would think her time and energy would be better spent trying to get him the nomination and the election rather than crusading to punish someone on his way out anyway. But that is just me.
Yes, a lot of things about politics and about the way this country is going is disheartening. I do the best I can with my vote and working for whatever candidate I choose to support. Since I am not a rich person I sure can't throw much money at campaigns, but I do what I can.
As to the law is the law and innocent until proven guilty by a jury of your peers...fine. Does that mean if Bush is impeached and not convicted all would be forgiven on the basis of the law is the law? All of you who are calling for his head would go quietly away because he was judged innocent by his "peers?" ROFL. I don't THINK so.
I would agree with you that we the people of America need to change the way politics are played. But before THAT can happen, the minds of Americans have to change. And the way to do that is stop the bitterly partisan way of thinking (ANY party) and if these political boards, and all the political boards and blogs and sites on the internet are ANY indication, that is not going to happen anytime soon.
Does not mean I am not a happy person, does not mean I am going to slink into a closet and into a depression if Clinton or Obama become President or Paul or WHOEVER becomes President. Life will go on, the chips will fall, and we shall see what happens. Same thing if Guiliani or Romney or Thompson or whoever is elected. It is what it is. Noble ideas and good intentions are wonderful things. But if our Congress cannot drop partisanship long enough to do what is best for the country (if they even know what that is anymore, or care), then it doesn't matter who is President. And I don't know how we can really expect them to if we as rank and file Americans are unwilling to...what goes around comes around, and around, and around, and around....until someone gets off the merry-go-round and pulls the plug. Someone a lot more important, sadly, than kam, than me, or you, piglet. And for the right reasons. And therein lies the rub.
Remember that song, I Need A Hero? Well...America needs one right about now. :)
Darn right - we must ALWAYS err on the side of protecting the INNOCENT.
xx
I was also told I was racist cuz I did not believe OJ Simpson was innocent. Whatever.
xx
Yes, there are also innocent people in prisons on death row.
Therefore I am against the death penalty.
Not revenge!-to save innocent lives from MORE
nm
is it right to torture a prisoner to prove that he is innocent?..sm
More prisoners are tortured to death or drippled for life because they do not have anything to confess.
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