Problem is Obama supporters just do not want to

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What do you say we all switch and vote a dirty old maverick into the White House?

I don't normally post on this board, I stay over on the MT boards, but I have one thing to say from my heart: Please remember that you reap what you sow. All of the years of the Bush-bashing from the left...it was always "okay" to do that because Bush is an "imbecile" or whatever other hateful names he was called. You didn't agree with his policies, etc. So let's bash him. Forget that he is a human being with people who love him. I believe he did the best he could with what he had to work with in terms of faulty intelligence given to him and the unimaginable stress of being the Leader of the Free World.

Well, now the tables have turned. I, personally, do not intend to bash Obama until he does/does not do something I disagree with, but when the time comes that some people might have the gall to disagree with something Obama does and refer to him in a negative way by calling him names or otherwise, please remember how it was *okay* for the left to do it to Bush. Just remember that. The time will come when the hateful negativity comes back on you with a vengeance.

While you guys are here on this page engaging it "silly season semantics", we Obama supporters are working our plan to ensure that we get this wonderful man of the people in office. Has Senator McCain given his supporters any ideas on what they can do to try to help put him in office? Most of the 90,000+ people at the Democratic convention are right now working the plan (not to mention the millions of us who watched from home!) You guys need to wake up and give your support to someone who will work for you rather than against you in Washington.

The only thing wrong with being wrong is stubbornly clinging to your wrongness. You probably voted for our current president 4 and 8 years ago. The deplorable condition that our nation has fallen into over the course of the last 8 years makes me know I must do everything possible to avoid 4 more. I, and millions like me, are so happy that Senator Obama chose to use his awesome intelligence, skills and experience of working with people to help us help ourselves. We are an unstoppable force. Better get on board, folks.

and bar owners really do not care about the danger the city could be in because of the legislation passed allowing bars to stay open 24/7 for 4 days. I would think that safety would be a concern, but you just proved me wrong.

While I can see the controversy about when life begins when we are talking about the very early stages of development, I have this question for anyone who has ever had a child....or been one. Generally when a mother is about 20 weeks pregnant, give or take a couple of weeks, she starts to feel the baby moving around inside her body. The baby moves more and more as the weeks go by. Toward 30 weeks or so, you can actually feel the baby changing positions to get more comfortable, moving around. So you are saying that baby I felt moving in my body wasn't alive yet?

By MEG KINNARD | Associated Press Writer
9:04 PM EST, November 13, 2008

COLUMBIA, S.C. (AP) _ A South Carolina Roman Catholic priest has told his parishioners that they should refrain from receiving Holy Communion if they voted for Barack Obama because the Democratic president-elect supports abortion, and supporting him "constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil."

The Rev. Jay Scott Newman said in a letter distributed Sunday to parishioners at St. Mary's Catholic Church in Greenville that they are putting their souls at risk if they take Holy Communion before doing penance for their vote.

"Our nation has chosen for its chief executive the most radical pro-abortion politician ever to serve in the United States Senate or to run for president," Newman wrote, referring to Obama by his full name, including his middle name of Hussein.

"Voting for a pro-abortion politician when a plausible pro-life alternative exists constitutes material cooperation with intrinsic evil, and those Catholics who do so place themselves outside of the full communion of Christ's Church and under the judgment of divine law. Persons in this condition should not receive Holy Communion until and unless they are reconciled to God in the Sacrament of Penance, lest they eat and drink their own condemnation."

During the 2008 presidential campaign, many bishops spoke out on abortion more boldly than four years earlier, telling Catholic politicians and voters that the issue should be the most important consideration in setting policy and deciding which candidate to back. A few church leaders said parishioners risked their immortal soul by voting for candidates who support abortion rights.

But bishops differ on whether Catholic lawmakers � and voters � should refrain from receiving Communion if they diverge from church teaching on abortion. Each bishop sets policy in his own diocese. In their annual fall meeting, the nation's Catholic bishops vowed Tuesday to forcefully confront the Obama administration over its support for abortion rights.

According to national exit polls, 54 percent of Catholics chose Obama, who is Protestant. In South Carolina, which McCain carried, voters in Greenville County � traditionally seen as among the state's most conservative areas � went 61 percent for the Republican, and 37 percent for Obama.

"It was not an attempt to make a partisan point," Newman said in a telephone interview Thursday. "In fact, in this election, for the sake of argument, if the Republican candidate had been pro-abortion, and the Democratic candidate had been pro-life, everything that I wrote would have been exactly the same."

Conservative Catholics criticized Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry in 2004 for supporting abortion rights, with a few Catholic bishops saying Kerry should refrain from receiving Holy Communion because his views were contrary to church teachings.

Sister Mary Ann Walsh, spokeswoman for the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, said she had not heard of other churches taking this position in reaction to Obama's win. A Boston-based group that supports Catholic Democrats questioned the move, saying it was too extreme.

"Father Newman is off base," said Steve Krueger, national director of Catholic Democrats. "He is acting beyond the authority of a parish priest to say what he did. ... Unfortunately, he is doing so in a manner that will be of great cost to those parishioners who did vote for Sens. Obama and Biden. There will be a spiritual cost to them for his words."

A man who has attended St. Mary's for 18 years said he welcomed Newman's message and anticipated it would inspire further discussion at the church.

"I don't understand anyone who would call themselves a Christian, let alone a Catholic, and could vote for someone who's a pro-abortion candidate," said Ted Kelly, 64, who volunteers his time as lector for the church. "You're talking about the murder of innocent beings."

We all hear a lot of support for each candidate on this board. Curious if anyone has put their money where their mouth is? What extent would you/have you gone for the candidate you favor?

I received this in email this morning. I couldn't find it posted here already, so:

Check this out.........and be sure to read it to the very end.

Three former Fannie Mae executives

and left-wing media don't just repeat what they see and hear? LOL! Oh please. Half of the Obamanation supporters spout exactly what Obama says and only seeing the promise of change.....which I might add....WON'T HAPPEN. Obama can't do anything he promises and if he does.....our country will be totally FUBARed (f*cked up beyond all recognition).

COLUMBUS, Ohio, Nov. 22 - Leesa Martin never considered President Bush a great leader, but she voted for him a year ago because she admired how he handled the terrorist attacks of 2001.

Selena Smith, an advertising agency director in Atlanta. The war is more important to me now. What�s the plan? Give us something to hang our teeth on, she said.

Kevin Fitzsimons for The New York Times

I don�t know if it�s any one thing as much as it is everything. It�s kind of snowballed, said Leesa Martin, a market researcher in Columbus, Ohio.

Then came the past summer, when the death toll from the war in Iraq hit this state particularly hard: 16 marines from the same battalion killed in one week. She thought the federal government should have acted faster to help after Hurricane Katrina. She was baffled by the president's nomination of Harriet E. Miers, a woman she considered unqualified for the Supreme Court, and disappointed when he did not nominate another woman after Ms. Miers withdrew.

And she remains unsettled by questions about whether the White House leaked the name of a C.I.A. agent whose husband had accused the president of misleading the country about the intelligence that led to the war.

I don't know if it's any one thing as much as it is everything, said Ms. Martin, 49, eating lunch at the North Market, on the edge of downtown Columbus. It's kind of snowballed.

Her concerns were echoed in more than 75 interviews here and across the country this week, helping to explain the slide in the president's approval and trustworthiness ratings in recent polls.

Many people who voted for Mr. Bush a year ago had trouble pinning their current discontent on any one thing. Many mentioned the hurricane and the indictment of a top aide to Vice President Dick Cheney, which some said raised doubts about the president's candor and his judgment. But there was a sense that something had veered off course in the last few months, and the war was the one constant. Over and over, even some of Mr. Bush's supporters raised comparisons with Vietnam.

We keep hearing about suicide bombers and casualties and never hear about any progress being made, said Dave Panici, 45, a railroad conductor from Bradley, Ill. I don't see an end to it; it just seems relentless. I feel like our country is just staying afloat, just treading water instead of swimming toward somewhere.

Mr. Panici voted for President Bush in 2004, calling it a vote for security. Now that a year has passed, I haven't seen any improvement in Iraq, he said. I don't feel that the world is a safer place.

A USA Today/CNN/Gallup poll in mid-November found that 37 percent of Americans approved of Mr. Bush, the lowest approval rating the poll had recorded in his presidency. That was down from 55 percent a year ago and from a high of 90 percent shortly after Sept. 11, 2001.

An Associated Press/Ipsos poll earlier in the month found the same 37 percent approval rating and recorded the president's lowest levels regarding integrity and honesty: 42 percent of Americans found him honest, compared with 53 percent at the beginning of this year.

Several of those interviewed said that in the last year they had come to believe that Mr. Bush had not been fully honest about the intelligence that led to the war, which he said showed solid evidence that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.

I think people put their faith in Bush, hoping he would do the right thing, said Stacey Rosen, 38, a stay-at-home mother in Boca Raton, Fla., who said she voted for Mr. Bush but was totally disappointed in him now. Everybody cannot believe that there hasn't been one shred of evidence of W.M.D. I think it goes to show how they tell us what they want to tell us.

Mark Briggs, who works for Nationwide Insurance here, said he did not want to believe that the president manipulated intelligence leading the country into war, but believed that, at least, Mr. Bush had misread it.

Still, however much he may disagree with Mr. Bush's policies, Mr. Briggs said, he admires the president for standing by what he says.

There is the notion of leadership and sticking with the plan, which I believe in, he said. George Bush is clear and consistent. He made a tough decision to go to war - and others voted for it, too. And I think he's right: those people may be trying to rewrite history.

Kacey Wilson, 32, eating lunch with Ms. Martin, said she, too, had concerns about the death toll from the war, but she felt that Mr. Bush spoke the truth, even if it might not be what the country wanted to hear. I like his cut-and-dry, take-no-prisoners style, Ms. Wilson said. I think people are used to more spinning.

Others, though, saw arrogance in that approach.

We need to not be so stubborn, said Vicky Polka, 58, a retired school principal in Statesboro, Ga., who voted for Mr. Bush and described her support for him as waning. Something's not going right here. We need to resolve this. I hate to say it, but I think Iraq is going the way of Vietnam.

Few people said they were following the leak scandal, which led to the indictment of I. Lewis Libby Jr., Mr. Cheney's former aide. Some who could cite main characters and events dismissed it as little more than political theater. Even fewer said they had paid attention to other scandals preoccupying Washington: the indictment of Representative Tom DeLay, the powerful Texas Republican, and the guilty plea by his former spokesman.

But several people said that the leak scandal had left them with the sense that the president was not leveling with the public about his involvement

He has to give us more information, said Phil Niemie, 51, an elementary school principal eating lunch with his family in Columbus. The longer it goes without closure, it begins to trigger those Nixon Watergate years. I felt the same way with Clinton.

Progress has been made. The Iraqis have a constitution. They�re actually creating their own country, said Rich Canary, an information technology specialist, Columbus, Ohio.

He has to give us more information. The longer it goes without closure, it begins to trigger those Nixon Watergate years, said Phil Niemie, an elementary school principal in Columbus, Ohio.

But for Mr. Niemie, who voted for Mr. Bush, and others, the leak scandal raised the biggest doubts about Vice President Cheney.

A lot of problems tie back to some of Cheney's shenanigans, Ms. Martin said. It just seems like he could have done better for vice president the second time around.

In Atlanta, Selena Smith, a director at an advertising agency, echoed others when she said she thought too much time had already been spent on the investigation.

The war is more important to me now, said Ms. Smith, 46. What's the plan? Give us something to hang our teeth on. What's really top of mind for me is how many people are getting killed across the creek, and how are we going to get them home?

Here in Ohio, the most hotly contested state in the 2004 election, the heavy toll on a local Marine battalion had played out on television and in newspapers throughout the summer's end, and the majority of two dozen people interviewed here said they wanted to see the troops come home.

Some, though, faulted Americans as having short attention spans.

Anything that takes more than a couple of months, we get bored with, said Rich Canary, 35, an information technology specialist here. Progress has been made. The Iraqis have a constitution. They're actually creating their own country. When you hear the soldiers talk, they feel what they're doing is important.

And there was much division about how to end the war. Some military families said it was important to finish the task the troops had begun; others said they resented accusations of being unpatriotic when they criticized the war. Some who said their approval of the president had not wavered nevertheless argued for a quick end to the war, while some of Mr. Bush's strongest critics said it would destabilize Iraq to withdraw the troops anytime soon.

Too many people would get hurt, said Laurence Melia, 28, a salesman from Newton, Mass., who campaigned against President Bush last year. There has to be a last foot on the ground in the end, and there might be more problems if we run away too fast.

In Houston, Geoff Van Hoeven, an accountant, said he thought the war in Iraq had aggravated the terrorist threat by creating a breeding ground for Al Qaeda. Still, Mr. Van Hoeven said a quick withdrawal was not possible, because America's going to be perceived as extremely weak and unreliable coming in, and when the going gets rough, they pull out.

Even those who voted against Mr. Bush a year ago saw little satisfaction in his woes.

Part of me enjoys watching him squirm, said Shirley Tobias, 46, sitting with a colleague from Netscape at a coffee shop in Grandview, a suburb of Columbus. But he's squirming on our behalf. We're all in this together.