The "validity" of "gay Christians' faith" is not a government issue.
Posted By: TechSupport on 2009-05-03
In Reply to: No...(sm) - Just the big bad
This is a question of church doctrine and teachings, and is a matter to be resolved within a particular church community if this issue arises. It has nothing to do with legislation regarding marriage.
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Who put faith in what government?
Who put faith in what government? I for one put NO faith in Bush from day one....he was a disastrous governor in the Lone Star, and I knew by the time he got finished with America and Americans, that we would barely be able to recognize it. You are right. The shrub did inherit at least something he should have been able to work with, but evidently it was beneath his pay grade to pay attention to such things since he had wars to wage.
Obama wants to restore a little balance...another thing the shrub monkeyed around with...especially his notorious distain for judicial powers and addiction to executive privilege. We need to take out that generic "government" reference and replace it with republicans failed us. The more power they get, the more they will fail us. Voters get that now.
Why are you lying? Obama wants stricter gun controls. He cannot take your precious guns away from you without a constitutional amendment. Defend yourselves against what? You really are a paranoid bunch, aren't you? Uh, oh....your argument just fell apart. So I ask again, can anybody explain Reagan's rambling incoherence?
So Christians aren't supposed to political? Or we aren't supposed to let our morality, faith
our conscience guide us politically?
I'm sorry, that is a separation I cannot make. My faith and religious convictions are part of the whole person that I am. I vote my conscience. I want political leaders who reflect my morality. I also happen to believe there are many Christians out there like me. There is no "separation" of church and state for me, which by the way was a concept (nowhere specifically mentioned in the constitution) meant to protect the church from the government more so than the government from the church.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with that commercial. There are condom commercials, "personal" lubricant commercials, and penis and sexual performance enhancing commercials -- why would anyone be offended by a pro-life commercial? The fact that anyone would be offended is a testament to just how twisted society has become!
Wellthe Klan might thing their Christians but real Christians don't consider them that sm
They are a radical group calling themselves Christians, like AL Queda calls themselves Muslim.
"gay" as such apparently has been around
since bibilical days, since the Bible mentions in layman's terms that men should not sleep with men, also remember Sodom and Gomorrah???
The "gay" lifestyle
is a perversion that most parents do not want for their children and it is dangerous for your health. Parents have no desire to control their children but they want better things for them than that type of "lifestyle." Homosexuality deprives parents of grandchildren and healthy children. You might as well inform your children of the "prostitution lifestyle, drug-induced lifestyle and criminal lifestyle" as well. Those are all just as dangerous as a "homosexual lifestyle." I would much rather have a "bigotted" child than a dead one.
They aren't pushing a "gay agenda"...(sm)
They're pushing TOLERANCE.....something you could obviously use a lessen in.
No not Christians, just far right wing radical Christians who,,,sm
believe that God speaks directly only to them and do not welcome anyone who does not have their beliefs.
I didn't talk down your faith but your faith
Get over yourself already. He shows the kindness and tolerance of a true Christian and not all the hating and intolerance like you and a lot of people here. Just because you are a Christian doesn't make you any better than anyone else
No issue is no issue. Denying that
nm
You mean Christians.
Is that what you are talking about? What other board?
That may be so....but Christians, at least the ones I know...
do not want to control the government. And too many times a strictly moral issue is ascribed to a "religious nut." Take abortion for example. There are nonreligious people who are against abortion, strictly on moral grounds, that it is wrong to kill innocent life. There are liberals who are against abortion for that reason...their reasoning is that you can't be against war because it kills and be for abortion, because it kills. That is their reasoning. For me, the basic moral precept of not committing murder should apply to the unborn as well as the "born" and that basic moral precept is enhanced by my faith. Everything I know about Jesus tells me his heart breaks every time an abortion occurs. Because of my faith, my heart also hurts for those millions of lives ended. People talk on and on and on about individual freedoms...yet walk all over the most basic of those...the right to life. Somehow people think they have the right to choose whether someone gets to live or not live. And I think that is way too much power...for one individual to have over the life of another. In any other case of that, when a person exercises that kind of power...it is illegal, it is wrong, it is murder, or manslaughter, or whatever you want to call it. And then you get into the business of defining when life starts. It is just my opinion that that is not a decision that is up to us. And an opinion I am entitled to. People protest the death penalty. No one calls them fanatics. To me there is no difference...lethal injection, abortion. Both kill. Sure, one has comitted a crime, which only makes the other more heinous. What crime did that developing child commit?
I do not say that to start an abortion thread. It is just to illustrate a point. I, as a Christian, believe in a moral code. I believe you should care about your fellow man, and churches in this country used to take care of the poor and weak in this country, before such a thing as a social program. No one had to force us to do it, we just did it. That kind of serving attitude, in my opinion, is good in public servants. They do need to serve a cause greater than themselves, and in their case I am not saying it is God. I am saying it is the American people. If more lawmakers listened to their Christian teachings they would do so. Not just serving God in their everyday lives, but serving the American people, because that is their job.
I agree it is not up to lawmakers to project their beliefs on an entire nation. Again there is the issue of abortion. That is not a "religious" issue. It is a moral issue...there are many nonreligious people who believe that it is wrong. Just like people believe other things are wrong and seek to legislate against those. Not from "religious" grounds, but moral grounds.
And you shouldn't characterize all Christians with the radicals. We are exhorted not to characterize all Muslims as terrorists. Just afford Christians the same courtesy, that's all I am saying.
no wonder christians have a bad name
Wow, aren't you a little smarty pants. So glad the whole world isn't just like you. I'm a Jew, we believe G-d's name is sacred and don't like to write it out unless it is going to be protected. Maybe you should go to h*ll because you don't seem to be a good example of how a christian should behave.
I have faith in G-d, and my people have for many, many years, long before there was a Jesus.
Well, not all Christians, but most of the
one on this board. I am a diest myself.
I'm just saying what most Christians believe
Just explaining why people see Muslim as wrong. I don't judge anybody or their beliefs. I can't stand people who do that and act all high and mighty. I have my own personal ones I won't get into here, but I would never force mine on somebody else.
Do you think that Christians who
believe abortion is murder are just religious quacks trying to push their religious beliefs on others? You don't have to be Christian to believe that abortion is wrong.
I do believe that there are some Christians out there who do turn more people away from religion than bringing them to it because of the way they go about it. But having religion and believing in things doesn't mean that we should have to give up our beliefs because someone else does not any more than you should have to put up with religion when you don't believe. This is where we have the problem.
I think abortion has to be a give and take kind of thing. I personally feel that it is wrong, however, I would be willing to compromise for the sake of meeting in the middle with people who believe it is a personal choice and not murder. I am 100% against late-term abortions as I feel there is no other word for that than MURDER. However, I could live with the early abortions. I have no problem with the morning after pill as to me that isn't much different than the birth control pill.
I just feel that there are people on the far right who need to unwind their panties..but I also believe that there are some far left people who need to do so themselves.
This is kind of like smokers versus non-smokers. Smokers feel they have the right to light up wherever they want because that is their right. However, non-smokers have a right to breathe clean air. So which one is right? Who rights are infringed upon?
Abortion is another subject where not everyone will be completely happy with. No matter what decision is made, people are going to complain. I just wish that we could somehow meet in the middle. Allow early term, deny late-term unless it is a life/death situation and just shut up about it.
Christians?
This was a very misfortunate event, but it was just an example of cult worship and weak minded people that killed their own children. I have no respect for people who kill children - NONE!
Christians?
I would have to wonder about that. Christians worship Jesus/God. Those people worshiped Jones, though they claimed to be Christians. Christianity is not a cult.
True Christians?!?!?
This is JOKE, right?? An article out of MAD Magazine or something???
I wish they would be real Christians. Just once.
It's very hard to understand how those who cheer war, torture and the fleecing of the poor think that their values are Jesus-oriented. It is scary to think what they have made of Jesus in their own minds, to believe he is applauding what they do.
Christians do that, not Muslims.
You state regarding Obama...He's linked with Ahmedinejad and therefore if he gets elected they will have an open invitation to come and get us and turn everyone into a muslim.
The last time I checked, it was the Christians who were trying to make everyone accept Jesus Christ as their savior and convert to them Christianity. Personally, I have never heard of Muslims trying to force anyone to believe as they do.
She didn't say anything about Christians
nm
Sorry you are so bitter towards Christians but you are right
++
true Christians
I consider myself a true Christian. I was baptized in the Southern Baptist Church when I was 11, and converted to Presbyterian Church USA as an adult, where I am an ordained Elder and Deacon. I am voting for Obama.
I am pro-choice and pro gay civil unions. The bible talks a lot more about tithing than it does about homosexuality (we just had a great sermon on this, but I don't remember the exact number difference.) Most Christians aren't up in arms for those who don't tithe. Homosexuality has been around forever, as has abortion (performed by midwives, etc., using herbs and other methods.)
I am married, with 2 children. I have never had to make the choice on abortion and hopefully never will. I hope my daughter never has to make this choice, but I sure as h@ll want it to be available to her if she does.
I think marriage is up to the individual churches, and many churches do perform gay marriages. I think that the government should allow civil unions. I really don't care what 2 people come together as a couple. I wish them all the love and happiness and support I have had in my own marriage for 21+ years.
How dare you say I am not a true Christian because my beliefs are different from yours. Christians come in many "flavors" and you are free to believe as you wish, and I don't think you are more or less Christian because of it.
I agree with the other posters, religion and politics don't mix and never should.
They are NOT Christians......they are evil
@@
not all republicans are christians.
x
Why woul d you think this was done by Christians?
Racial slurs and swastikas are your idea of Christian symbols? What you are speaking of is a crime, but I wouldn't chalk it up to Christians.
And I will gladly identify as a Christians. Though I don't usually thump my Bible, I do read it.
Why do Christians think atheists are
I am an atheist. I have a bachelors degree in theology. The atheists and agnostics I know personally have read and studied the Bible and many other belief systems before coming to the point in their lives where they come of the theological closet, as it were. In some cases, they are even more knowledgeable than some that practice the faith because they do not read the bible with a set doctrine that interprets it for them. The oft-held belief that all atheists are not knowledgeable of the Bible is simply not true.
So it's okay to offend Christians...
And yet this putz bows to Muslims.
Things that make you go 'hmmmm.'
He does not only lead Christians
.
why is it that the Christians are self-righteous sm
condescending and judgement and insulting and your posts are not? Whether you get to heaven is based on whether you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and SAvior. You cannot do anything on your own to warrant heaven.
Whether you believe or not, I am not going to deny my Lord and Savior because you think I am condescending or anything else. I truly hope you reconsider.
So you don't think Christmas is for the Christians?
Wow. I thought that was how it got its name. Good Friday/Easter aren't about Christians?
Since you don't believe that these are celebration of Christian theology, please don't let your voice be one of those complaining about the secularization of Christmas, since you don't feel it's Christian anyway.
First of all Christians who witness know sm
they cannot "save" anyone. Only Jesus Christ can save a soul. If a Christian is witnessing the proper way, he isn't pushing anything down anyone's throat. I will admit, there are some who don't do things correctly and it makes it bad for the ones who do.
As a Christian I want to see everyone I can come to know the Lord Jesus Chris in the free pardon of sin. They have every right to the same heaven I do. Its up to that person to decide who they will serve. It is a free choice.
Why are you using only Christians in this debate
I think a lot of people opposed to gay marriage are not Christians at all, and some who may be in support of it may very well be Christians. What does being Christian have to do with it at all?
Faith. sm
There was a poster on this board not too long ago of the Jewish faith. He was here to discuss the situation in Israel. He was hounded from this board ruthlessly. And not by conservatives.
Faith
I am not here to discuss Israel, just replying to an abortion post. I really don't care if I am hounded by anyone. Happens all the time :-)
I have faith
and am not ashamed to express it. Seems to me democrates place their hand on the bible just like rebublicans when taking the oath of office. Do you wonder about that too?
I think it does but I do have faith there are
good people out there too like you. So thank you for saying that. I tune in to CNN a lot of it has come up a few times that it matters. It is just depressing to me that it does still matter.
take care.
Keep the faith. No one knows what is going,,,sm
to happen with the economy or in the world over the next few months. At least we have a glimmer of hope with Obama.
Got that right, but keep the faith.
we can get through anything. We will come out in a much better place if we simply get our collective acts together and realize that change is coming (and I DON'T mean the campaign slogan) because it has to. WE have a choice. We can take charge of the situation and face those challenges as a united front or stay sidelined and wait for our leaders to show us the way. Clearly, I know which side of that decision I come down on.
According to your faith...(sm)
Christians were at one point persecuted, and they pushed and pushed until they got their way. I guess it was okay to do that back then.
I SAID most religious people...I did NOT say most Christians.
You guys don't rule the world, ya know. Just your little corner...just your own lives, not everyone else's.
Christians are persecuted all over the world. sm
ESPECIALLY in intolerant Muslim countries. Voice of the Martyrs is a very good source for this information.
Micro chip in Christians maybe?
We dont need entertainment when it comes to people and their beliefs..I think you need to check with your Jewish friends (are there any in your neck of the woods?) and see if they were **entertained** with her comments, if they laughed while looking at their parents tattoos from Germany or remembering the stories of their grandparents escaping Europe before and during WWII..LOL..big laugh, right?? Freaking ignorant if you ask me...maybe Christians need to get a sensitivity chip in their brains?? You know, to perfect them??
America was NOT founded by Christians...sm
The founding fathers were deists, and some would most likely even be considered atheists by today's standards. Either way, they were, above all, *secularists.* They were NOT Christians.
I get so tired of this "America has always been a Christian nation" lie perpetuated by the Christian right. It's more accurate to say that America has always been infested with Christian (and other) relious nut bags who wanted to shove their beliefs down everyone else's throats, and have always tried to use our system of govt. to try to make that happen. That I'll give you.
Oh, and the tired old, "Separation of church and state isn't in the constitution." Anyone can see that the concept is there. Well, not anyone, I guess. You can't see it if you view everything through that nice, thick religious lens that they must hand out at some churches.
As for our government "pulling many laws right out of the Bible" that's pretty funny. You think the Bible is the only place we got that information, and if it wasn't written down in there, we wouldn't know not to do those things? Sorry, but that's just wrong. Humans throughout history have not liked it when other humans murdered, lied, cheated, stole, treated others badly, etc., long before the Bible was ever written. Maybe you haven't noticed that these same laws exist around the world, regardless of their religion, or lack thereof? Christians didn't invent them. But I guess they like to think they did.
The arrogance of Christiantity never ceases to amaze me. And you wonder why there is such animosity towards you.
See the quotes posted below...they WERE Christians...
not Deists, and described themselves as such.
The fundamentalist Christians aren't a very
The major difference between Christians and...
radical Islam is free choice...it is your choice whether or not to accept Christ...we do not chop off heads. THAT is my way or the highway.
I prefer Muslims to Christians!
I find the Muslims I know to be well educated, polite, family oriented, and very gentle people. I cannot say the same for the Christians I have met. This is based on my own personal experience, so there is no need for flaming from the right-wing Christian fanatics.
This country was founded by Christians...
form of government founded by Christians, documents authored by Christians...Christians, Christians, Christians. Radical? Perhaps. Christians? Most definitely.
Christians don't hate gays
but the Bible says it is a sin. We love gay people and hope that they come to know the Lord and in doing so will understand it's a sin. Marriage is for a man and a woman.
Please, if you don't really understand Christianity, don't speak about it. People make so many assumptions about what we believe.
Love the person, hate the sin. We are all sinners. Gays are no worse than us. My telling a little white lie is just as much of a sin as someone being gay which is just as much of a sin as someone killing a child. In God's eyes there are no "levels" of sin. That's why we need Jesus, to pay our sin debt, because all the good works in the world can't save us.
Flame away...
That's not far right wing radical Christians..that's the
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