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Those 2 elections didn't leave a

Posted By: gourdpainter on 2008-11-27
In Reply to: Charade - underdog

shred of honesty in our election process.  As I recall in 2000 GWB declared himself to be president before he was declared the winner wrongly.  And people talk about Obama's b/c and want to know the "truth" about that.  I'd like to know the truth about the 2000 and 2004 elections and then I might be willing to talk about the "truth" of O's b/c.


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Why didn't the Bush bashers leave then? Did you feel the same about them?
//
Too bad you can't win elections
xx
2006 Elections - The Fix Is In

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/politics/bal-md.voting12may12,0,2148061.story


From the Baltimore Sun



Maryland votes 2006



Experts see new Diebold flaw


They call it worst security glitch to date in state's voting machines and a 'big deal'








By Stephanie Desmon
Sun reporter

May 12, 2006

Computer security experts say they have found the worst security flaw yet in the oft-criticized touch-screen machines that Maryland voters will use in this year's elections, leaving one computer scientist to warn that the state should have stacks of paper ballots on hand in case of a complete Election Day breakdown.

The machines, made by Diebold Elections Systems, are much, much easier to attack than anything we've previously said, said Avi Rubin, a Johns Hopkins University computer science professor who first cast doubt on the reliability of the technology in a 2003 report.

On a scale of one to 10, if the problems we found before were a six, this is a 10. It's a totally different ballgame, he said.

The new problem is being described as an intentional hole left in the system to allow elections workers to update voting software easily. Instead of using pass codes or other security protocols, anyone with access to a voting machine could install new software that could easily disable a precinct full of machines, Rubin said.

Diebold officials say they are aware of the situation and, although they say any problem can be avoided by keeping a close watch on voting machines, they are developing a permanent fix.

Still, said company spokesman David K. Bear, it's one more what-if scenario. ... It's becoming somewhat ridiculous.

Maryland elections officials said they have known about the latest concerns for two weeks and will have an independent security consultant look into them next week to ensure that the state's Diebold machines are safe.

We are taking steps, said state elections administrator Linda H. Lamone. She said she is confident that the problem will have little effect in Maryland because of strict rules about who is permitted to handle voting machines in the state. Everyone that has access to them has to undergo a criminal background check, she said.

Before the Diebold machines were distributed statewide about two years ago, questions arose about whether hackers might be able to get into the automated-teller-like computers and alter their software, allowing multiple votes, vote-switching and other problems.

Computer experts, including Rubin, said security measures were insufficient and poorly designed. Activists pushed to add a paper ballot component to the machines in case a recount was needed.

Still, the state moved forward and nearly every voter in Maryland used a touch-screen machine in the 2004 presidential election. There were few complaints or problems.

Gov. Robert L. Ehrlich Jr. called on the state this year to abandon its touch-screen machines, saying he had no confidence in the technology, in part because lawmakers adopted other voting changes such as early voting.

He put money into his budget to pay for optical scan machines, which were used in the state for years before 2004. The General Assembly did not approve a voting machine switch during this year's session, which ended last month.

Rubin said he fears that the latest security problem could be serious enough to cause an Election Day meltdown that could put precincts of machines out of action. He recommends that counties have a pen-and-paper alternative on hand as insurance.

Joseph M. Getty, the governor's legislative and policy director, called the newly disclosed security flaw not really a new problem.

It's the same problem of vulnerability to outsiders, he said.

Getty said the latest Diebold problem bolsters the administration's case against early voting, which was approved by the legislature last year. He said any security risk can be minimized in one day of voting but is multiplied when machines are in public use for six days.

Michael Shamos, a computer science professor at Carnegie Mellon University and a Pennsylvania voting machine examiner, pushed his state, which will have a primary election next week, to lay out strict new rules for installing software and sealing machines for safety.

It's a big deal. It's a very big deal, Shamos said. The good part is it's very easy to fix. You have to repair it. You can't just do nothing. ... It's not just like leaving the key to your door under the mat. It's like leaving the key dangling from a string from the door.

The temporary fix, Shamos said, involves reinstalling the proper software just before the election, preferably in a public setting, then locking the machines to keep them from being tampered with before voting begins.

In 2004, Shamos testified on behalf of the state of Maryland in a suit filed by a citizens group asking a court to compel the state to address possible security problems and give voters the option of using paper ballots instead of the new machines. The state won.

If I had known about this problem then, I wouldn't have had good things to say, he said.

The latest security hole was discovered by Finnish computer scientist Harri Hursti, who was doing work in Utah for Black Box Voting Inc., a nonprofit group that has focused on computerized voting.

Most computer scientists don't want to disclose too many details about the problem because they fear that would provide hackers with the tools needed to cause havoc during an election. They waited many weeks before making their findings public.

We were worried the threat was so serious that if the details were to get out, someone could actually do it, Rubin said.


stephanie.desmon@baltsun.com

Copyright © 2006, The Baltimore Sun | Get Sun home delivery















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Bullies don't win elections.
Makes O team's job much easier.
Elections are in November.

The financial crisis is happening NOW and has to be handled NOW.  Our country is collapsing.  If we do not do some sort of bail out, we all will still suffer from this.  The value of the dollar will go down.  It will be much much harder and pretty much impossible for some to get loans from banks.  This means people won't be buying anything big like vehicles, homes, etc.  That will ruin sales even more than it is now.  Car companies will have to cut back on production because people can't get loans to buy.  The car dealers will start closing down because you can't make money if you can't sell vehicles.  Think of the jobs lost right there and that is just with vehicles. 


I don't feel that we should have to foot the bill.  I'm totally disgusted that our government has allowed it to get this far out of wack but we have to do something to get money back into the market.  If we do nothing, the consequence will be horrific.  We have to do something and we have to do something fast and that is more important than a debate especially since we have until November for elections.


That happened to me in the last 4 elections but

why, I don't know. It could be that the post office changed our street address 4 times yet lived here since ྈ.  I wasn't on the list even though I've been registered since 1988 and voted every election. All of a sudden, I had to fill out a special form to vote. Last local primary, they wouldn't let me vote and I had to re-register. Stupid!


This year I called to make sure I was registered and they said yes. Got a new registration card with the old address on it, but no trouble this year. I was #235 at 7:30 a.m.


My advice to your party if you want to win elections
start preparing for the future instead of living in the past.
Rigging Elections is a Crime

   The McCain/Palin GOP is already in the process of stealing the Ohio vote, as was done in 2004. Among those at the center of the GOP strategy is Bush Family computer operative Michael Connell, who programmed the key vote counting mechanisms that were used to give George W. Bush his second term.


ttp://www.truthout.org/article/ten-ways-gop-is-now-stealing-ohio-vote


you mean the same way Hillary stole the elections in certain states
with those machines manufactured by people who supported her. I know New York was one of the states and I would have to research the other states.

This is why there should be no machines involved. How about paper votes. How about a piece of paper with two name and a picture of each of them next to their name. This way if you cant read english you will recognize the person. Then you have a box next to it, put an X, a check, or even fill in the box and let people handcount the votes (no chads). I'd rather wait a day or two to find out who won and know it is a legitimate vote.
2 elections stolen? baloney. Meaningless war? Go
nm
Has the country decided not to hold any more elections
Was 2008 the very last election? I thought every four years there is an election. I also thought, according to past elections, that people should not just assume someone will win. They assumed Gore would win and he didn't, they assumed Kerry would win and he did not. Hence I would not assume Obama will win a second term. If he turns out to be a good president and we still have elections in 4 years, and nothing happens between now and then, then and only then will he most likely be re-elected. But since the guy has not even been sworn in yet and made any major decisions I would not be so bold as to just go on like he's going to be in for eight years. There is that slight possibility that he could very well be a crappy president like Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter (especially with all the people he is picking for his cabinet). I know the country is ready for a change and GW hasn't been the best, but until a man serves in the office we don't know what kind of a president he will be.

Unless of course you have heard something that none of us have heard and there will never be any more elections in the future. I have heard and read that Obama is a socialist, and maybe we are heading toward the same thing Cuba faces. The leader just appoints himself to the office every time. So maybe that is what you are referring to.
Hallelujah! Leftists in EU elections across Europe are

Don't think this will go unnoticed on this side of the pond as well.  Obama's numbers shriveling, the Democratic-dominated Congress even worse numbers...and the Republican gubernatorial candidate in New Jersey, of all places, is leading the Democrat incumbent by double digits in the polls.  Those who crowed prematurely about the demise of conservatism are going to find that the toe tag has been switched - and they're the ones who will end up wearing it.  Why?  Because they got above themselves and WENT TOO FAR.  It's so true, isn't it - "pride goeth before a fall". 


Conservatives Racing Ahead in EU Parliamentary Elections:


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090607/ap_on_re_eu/european_elections


I agree.about the memos. ...Speaking about the elections
in Iran, it is said that even the 1st election that made Ahmedinejad president, was a fraud, I quote..

'Iran does not allow international election monitors. During the 2005 election, when Ahmadinejad won the presidency, there were some allegations of vote rigging from losers, but the claims were never investigated.'

_____


Piglet: Kasparov calls Russia's elections...s/m

meaning the recent Putin reelection.....the *dirtiest* in their history.....


http://newsfromrussia.com/news/russia/03-12-2007/102126-kasparov_elections-0


It is all theater for the flock. Bush will cancel elections next. nm
z
This is exactly how elections are held in Vermont, no voting machines. nm
.
factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html
factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html:

FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate. We conclude that it meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. citizenship. Claims that the document lacks a raised seal or a signature are false. We have posted high-resolution photographs of the document as "supporting documents" to this article. Our conclusion: Obama was born in the U.S.A. just as he has always said.


Lee Green did not monitor the elections, Jimmy Carter did.
Lee Green is the director of CAMERA (Committee for Accuracy on Middle East Reporting) which is a Pro-Israeli American Media Monitor. I prefer to read a book and make up my own mind and certainly am not surprised that Zionist critics would hate Carter and the truths he exposed in his book. They can protest to their heart's content, but they can't turn lies into truth.
Even under occupation, Palestine hold democratic elections,
as do Turkey and Lebanon, and those countries do not occupy any other populations.
If you leave our board, I'll leave your board.

so leave
We make you sick but you just keep coming back and posting again and again and again. 
I will leave that for you

I will leave the hate for you and your warmonger group, you the one who says I will chain myself to the WH gates and blow myself up, you who says Im a satanist.  You are the one with the hate in your heart and soul and it comes through loud and clear. 


Don't leave AW
Dont' leave American woman. I am the original poster, and I don't care what someone who comes onto this board just to troll thinks in the least, it did not bother me at all, so hold on there, Quickdraw!
Don't ask them to leave.
It's fun watching all their hatred explode to the point where they wind up fighting with each other but are too stupid to know it!
I don't want to leave them to die...sm
But I don't want to be moving slow and steady 20 years from now. Something has got to give. Either fight like its a war and not an occupation, or come on home. The course we are on is not working and I think America is waking up to that. If the democrats change this course and you don't like it, blame Bush. He had 3 years and some months to pick up the pace over there.

I believe if Bush came out and admitted going into Iraq was a *mistake,* which it was, but which he will never do. And if he reached across the aisle for solutions to get us out *not cut and run* and *NOT stay the course.*
What does that mean? Means, I don't want to leave Iraqis to die, but I think Iraqis should take over the course.

I can't for the life of me understand that if Iraqis want this democracy as bad as we do, why not every man and boy fit to fight are not taking to the street to fight for the same. That's anybody's guess.

Side note: Funny how Bush and the likes have been squelshing any idea that this war has nothing to do with oil, but lately Bush himself has been on the campaign trail making comments that if we leave terrorist will get the oil. And he's said he's never said stay the course, WOW!
Oh no, kam...don't leave. They NEED you...
No, they don't just want the minority vote and the poor vote...they want all the votes, just like any other political party. I just find it mildly amusing that when Johnson signed the civil rights act he commented to his aide that the Dems had lost the south for a decade. That was his concern...losing the southern vote because (gasp) they were giving African Americans the vote. And what came next for Pres Johnson? The "War on Poverty" and the start of entitlement programs out the kazoo. If he and the Democratic party were really "true liberals," and they were in power and had the power, why would they have not embarked upon this mission BEFORE African Americans got the vote? They were somehow more worthy of programs when they could vote?

Having said that, I have never been against helping those truly in need, and even if starting it was self-serving, the end result was that those truly in need did get help and that part of it is a very good thing. It has ballooned, however, into a massive cash cow that is not overseen and the waste is astronomical. So, whatever administration is in, whatever party has the power, should exercise some common sense and prioritize as far as programs are concerned, cut the waste, and not raise taxes on us anymore. I would think that liberals and conservatives alike could agree on that point.


Not only will we not leave them with peace,

deficit in American history, caused by WHAT?


And I just love how anyone who doesn't agree with them is labeled as having no values.


What kind of values does someone have to take a healthy surplus upon entering office and not only SQUANDERING it but then going on to create the biggest deficit in American history?


What kind of values does someone have to send our children to an unnecessary war to die and/or be injured while neglecting to give them inadequate supplies?


What kind of values does someone have to send our children off to a foreign land to die for his own personal bogus war, when he was too much of a coward to serve in combat duty himself?


What kind of values does someone have to take the blood of 9/11 victims and the fear of all other Americans and USE it to wage a bogus war against Iraq when that was his goal before he was even elected President?


What kind of values does someone have to not care enough about securing or borders or our ports or protecting our airspace and chemical/nuclear plants and decreases the budget for rail and subway security?


What kind of values does someone have to have to neglect to develop enough smallpox vaccines FOUR YEARS after the worst attack in American history, when bio attacks using smallpox was felt to be a threat?


What kind of values does someone have to have to make sure that his huge war budget includes FREE comprehensive medical benefits for all Iraqi citizens while he presides over a country where many of his own citizens who work 40 hours or more a week can't even afford health insurance?


What kind of values does someone have to have to deny American scientists the opportunity to study stem cell research, using the argument that he wants to "protect life" when he presides over a country where our children are being routinely molested and MURDERED by animals who the government refuses to keep in jail? 


Out of all the talk on these boards about life being "precious" as it regards stem cell research, I have yet to see ONE SINGLE POST about the multitude of children that have been abducted, sexually abused and murdered in this country in the last six months.  What kind of values does someone have to have to care more about cells in a petrie dish than the children who are already here?


Those examples aren't values. Those examples do nothing but reflect the values that are ABSENT in an egotistical moron of a president who, at his very BEST, is nothing but DANGEROUS.


And of course, let's just leave out what DixieDew said to Nan. SM
That's so much more convenient.  Who's the phoney now?
The trolls appear to be gone anyway. Why leave now?
ta dum
leave out god in the pledge
Why not say the pledge which we have been brain washed to say but leave the two words out?  Let those who want to hook up god with country to say in god to themselves.something I may say our forefathers did not want us to do..to put together state and church..
Because you won't leave us alone on our own board.

If you leave us alone, I'll leave you alone.


Pwnd....huh? I think you need to leave now before..
Your language skills get.... 
Love it or leave it. Is that all you got?
I am wondering if you ever see or hear youself before, during or after your tantrums. I could not find a more perfect example of what I was trying to convey than this current post, even if my life depended on it.

Ordinary, garden-variety right-wing impotence. Attacks on patriotism and America, love-it-or-leave it. Boring….surely you can do better than that. Show me where I said I was disappointed in America. Please don’t respond with another fabrication. Blind, deaf, illiterate, which is it? Guess you skated right on past the part about being “no less American” or “proud of America and the ideals we try to uphold,” in your haste to find something to assault or ridicule.

Your attempt at humor falls about as flat as McCain’s let’s-annihilate-an-entire-population and rape jokes. MSNBC is a little on the tame side for me. Next time you really want to insult a democrat, try playing the Democracy Now! and KPFT/Pacifica card. Anyone genuinely interested in alternative viewpoints on issues that NEVER make to the mainstream media might want to check them out, but you will be disappointed if you are looking for candidate, spouse and their associates bashing. As for you, Sam, enjoy Hannity. It’s preaching-to-the choir audience and content ought to make you feel right at home, all safe and validated and it's a great place to go when you need to refresh those tired tactics and stock up on mud.

You seem to be a little confused today, (gag me) “dear.” Must be the way you tow your party line and jump right in with that hostility toward facts and information. Those “elite” and “snobbish” remarks are just as inappropriate and untrue about me as they are about Obama. Let me break this down for you. The “elite,” in most contexts, refers to the wealthy, aristocratic, blue-blood, upper class… the “haves.” That world of economic and class distinction can be found on the republican planet, where all the “snobs” live. We dems are the roll-up your sleeves, blue-collar, working class, champion of the underdogs bunch…“the have-nots.” Try to keep that straight next time you need to use that ploy. Being an MT, I belong to that second clan, to be sure, since very few of us have amassed vast wealth, and it should come as no surprise that my politics arise from that place.

I think the word you are looking for to rail against would be “academic.” I don’t feel I need to excuse or defend myself for trying to be equipped with a few facts, reading a few books, taking a class or 2 or checking into misinformation. But for the life of me, I cannot understand why so many right-wingers feel so threatened by that. I do not think I am smarter than the next guy. I just don’t want to sound as dumb and ignorant, that all. In fact, the best knowledge I have was picked up on the street, at the school of hard knocks and simply being alive for so long. In any case, there are a whole bunch of academic people out there Sam. They are your fellow Americans, and every once in a while, it is their turn to speak. Do us all a favor and get over yourself, puh-leeze.

You do seem to be reasonably intelligent. Academics, like bilingualism….not fatal. Indulge yourself and try it sometime. You just might like it. IMO, you probably would be pretty good at it. It certainly is a lot more stimulating than all this mud-slinging…more inspiring, too. I’ll say it again. Intelligence is a terrible thing to waste. If you think it’s funny, it’s your loss, not mine.

This is the only chat room I ever use. I do not come here for information. I come here because of the isolation factor in the life of a work-at-home MT. At least we all have that in common and I would like to assume that we are an off-the-beaten path community of fairly intelligent folks. I do not consider chat rooms, blogs, the Internet or any network, CNN, Fox or MSNBC broadcasts to be particularly reliable sources of information. I come from the old school (don’t go ballistic on me…it’s not a 4-letter word). I feel much more comfortable with good old-fashioned investigative reporting, and I am not referring to what has been passed off as such in recent times. Here’s what is looks like: It strives to be objective and unbiased. It is exhaustive and thorough. It examines the pros and cons of an issue, presents facts and alternative viewpoints and does not edit or opine. It leaves its conclusions up to the reader. That is how one develops original thinking. Not a hat you try on to see how cute it will make you look. It is a process of protracted, lifetime pursuit.

I will not dignify your accusations of being a mouthpiece for the party with a response, although there are certain aspects of the platform that do represent where I am coming from. This is simply another conclusion you have jumped to with great glee, and is a pitifully transparent avoidance of engaging any of the real issues I have raised. I will also pass on the delusions or grandeur dig…. (yawn) just more of the same senseless mud-slinging you seem to enjoy so much.

I am not interested in repeating myself on the immigrant issue since you’re not listening anyway….waste of time. I most certainly do see the Americans in my midst. I am one of them. You missed the point (no surprise there). I try not to respond to all those “shoulds.” Awfully one-dimensional, if you ask me, and besides, they do nothing to shed light on the topic, nor do they lead us to any viable solutions. BTW, show me where I said I want you to be Ethiopian or Cuban. Not. I want you to let them be Ethiopian-Americans, Cuban-Americans, etcetera. Assimilation is a HUGE issue with many facets and is way too complex to comprehend in the absence of the ability to put oneself into another’s shoes. Besides, I am sure that assimilation does not mean the same thing to you as it does to me. But I am glad you brought this up, because it plays into the broader issue of what it means to be an American, past, present and future.

You are most definitely not prepared to have any meaningful exchange on why immigrants come here and, yes, I can agree with at least one thing you said. Things aren’t so great where they come from. The question is why….and furthermore, that subject requires the ability to listen and respond to some honest and humbling self-examination and (gasp) criticism of the good ole US. Being the superpower that we are, it would be foolish to deny that US foreign policy failures have not played a significant role in that arena. I’ll go there with someone who is not quite as, shall we say, “sensitive” on that subject.

It may come as a shock to you that Americans are not one huge homogenous monolith that agrees with your vision of what America should or should not be. Quite the contrary. We are allowed to be diverse in our ideas and lifestles, without the fear of persecution. Spare me those chest-beating lectures on patriotism and your sanitized American utopian ideal. I read the DAR old home week posts but kept my distance. I will inject these two comments, which I am sure you will find offensive….oh well. American Indians have LOTS of issues between themselves and the US government….still. If nobody ever hears complaints from them, it is not from lack of trying. It would be because their news never makes it to mainstream media, but they do get weekly air time on Pacifica. They are not silent. Nobody is listening, and to our eternal shame, nobody cares and never did. They would not exactly be delighted to be dragged out in a horse-and-pony exhibition as mutt ancestors of non-Native Americans who would use their heritage in a whose-more-American contest. In fact, they remain pretty big on the idea of preserving their own ethnic purity. Not a whole lot of room there for the DAR. Last time I checked, they take their pride in being aboriginal natives who live in sovereign nations…not exactly receptive to the kind of assimilation you have in mind. Bet their vision of the REAL America wouldn’t look anything like yours.

In any case, it’s a brand new day in the USA. This is not 1800 and its not 1900…globalization is here, and it’s not going away. We unleashed it with our own hands and now it’s time to grow up and deal with what it all means. The face of the earth will never look the same again and there is no going back to the good old days. Sorry about that. Breaking news. There are around 50,000 illegal Irish immigrants in the US. Granted, they are English speaking but not AMERICAN English. What WILL we do with them all….round them up and ship this back across the Atlantic? Would that be all right with you?

That Krushchev remark was asinine and completely off the wall. I know you were trying to be cute and I got the general drift about his prediction and “without firing a shot.” You would like to misconstrue this and use it to bolster your immigration argument. Have it your way. Lets go there. I was alive and kicking, we had a TV and I was old enough to understand the report and the broadcast. I remember what happened. One shoe incident (there were a few) was an angry gesture on his part in a heated exchange with the Filipino minister during a rant against Western colonialism/imperialism. The prediction you cite was a completely different occasion, and was made in reference to the cold war, boasting that America's children would be living under communism without firing a shot. He couldn’t care less about the illegal immigration “problems” in the US. In fact, back then there was not a whole lot of that anyway. So enlighten me, oh Wise One. What truth am I missing here?

The degree of bigotry you hold inside yourself is hateful, a viewpoint shared by a majority of Americans on both sides of the aisle. Before you get your drawers in an uproar and start dragging out the denial defense, lets look at what Merriam Webster has to say. Bigot = “One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.” Never heard you talk about religion, but by all other counts, you qualify. It is as exhaustive for you to nurture that kind of hatred as it is for anyone who tries to reason with you about it. Be a bigot. It’s a free country. But let it be known that as long as bigotry continues to exact its toll of division among us and inflicts the pain and suffering that it so obviously fosters, there will always be legions of us who will stand up against it. I am only being realistic about what lies ahead of all of us in terms of globalization. Stick your head in the sand. No problem. But it’s coming and there is really no force on earth that is going to stop that train.

Even an 8th grader knows that Nazis failed in creating a pure race. Nothing cute at all about the suffering that that kind of bigotry caused. If you feel that strongly about the pure race and making time stand still, maybe you should start a secession movement.
Hannity is too ill-informed, way too pathetic and just downright too stupid to push any of my buttons but he should be right up your alley...2 of a kind. Throw that therapy insult at someone else. Play time is over and it’s time for me to get out of the sandbox and go home.

In closing, you couldn’t recognize an issue if it came up kicked you in the face. Takes no talent whatsoever to get down there in the dirt where you seem to feel so much at home. Unfortunately, you set the tone for the responses you get. Anyone interested in answering you has to sink to your level just to have a conversation with you. Not all of us get our kicks like that and certainly I have much better ways to spend my time.

Let me know if you ever find your way past all those obnoxious personal attacks, clichéd catch phrases, dodges, deflections and deceptions and actually want to wrap your brain around some real issues. In the meantime, I won’t be back in sandbox at least for the next couple of days…looking to change my job. I know you will miss me just about as much as I will miss you. When I come back, I’ll be dialing it back a notch or two….this drivel is certainly not worth getting kicked off the board over.

Actually, she does leave the caveat of...
abortion if the life of the mother is in danger. So she is not 100%. Now you are hawking abortion as a straight birth control method? Geeezzzzzz. Take a pill, save a baby!

Card carrying feminist...yeah right. Only feminists who share your narrow views. Obviously there are some independent feminists out there, and they may well be your candidate's undoing as well, because you just can't help being mean and condescending, and some people are just sick of it. Some Democrats are just sick of it. Keep it up! Less work for us.
Leave her up there where she belongs.
nm
There is still a shot he might not leave. sm
The economy is very bad and there could be a catastrophic emergency (Directive 51), and we are stuck with him.
i'm sure he is ready to leave,
and would not worry about that. Also am glad that the provisions are in place for every kind of emergency, including directive 51, to preserve the integrity of our government. If the terrorists will try again, i'm sure they'll wait to test Obama rather than mess with Bush. You'd best worry instead whether Obama will be ready 'on day 1'.
leave her siblings

out of it.


 


Yep....they don't dare leave the US

The Hague (World Court) has pretty much charged Rumsfeld, Cheney and Bush with war crimes.


on January 26, United Nations Special Rapporteur on Torture Manfred Nowak insisted that the pursuit of Bush and members of his administration for the torture of terror war prisoners is crucial if justice is to be served.

Nowak added that he believes enough evidence exists currently to proceed with the prosecution of Donald Rumsfeld, the former Secretary of Defense who was credited as being highly influential in the crafting and push for America's invasion of Iraq and the prior administration's abusive interrogation tactics.


And I'm told to forget about Bush - NO FREAKING WAY! This sucks out loud!!!


Yes, that's what I'm saying. I'll leave that to his
I've lived long enough not to swallow everything I see, especially from sources like this, as "gospel", if you'll pardon the pun.
All I want is for people to leave

the definition of marriage to be between a man and a woman.  It is a sacred bond between a man and a woman in the eyes of God.  I have no problem compromising and making all "marriages" civil unions and then letting the believers have their marriage performed in a church by their pastor.  Funny how we are willing to compromise though.  I remember asking if the gay community would be willing to have civil unions and I was told that it wasn't fair and why should the gay community settle for civil unions?  Now all of sudden you are for civil unions?  I personally don't see why both marriages in a church and civil unions can't both have the benefits that marriage currently does.  That way we can keep our religion and our marriage to ourselves and you can have your civil unions.  Now you want people who are believers and who want to get married to have their benefits stripped away just to make you happy and feel good about gay civil unions?  Once again....talk about a group who cries and whines about their rights but have no problem trying to take rights away from someone who doesn't have the same opinion or beliefs. 


We could leave "marriage" as it is, and have....sm

homosexual UNIONS.  People having traditional marriages keep on as before, but homosexuals wishing to engage in a "union" could do the legal thing.


That sounds about right to me.  :)


Yes, you have the freedom to LEAVE
if you don't like the direction our country is heading.  You LOST.  The Good Guys Won.  Deal with it!!  Get behind our President and our Country.  Or LEAVE!  We don't need treason like this you are expressing.
I'd appreciate it if you would leave my daughter out of your agenda.

I mentioned nothing of her political opinions or what she "thinks." I merely said I baby-sit for her occasionally and use her computer.  for you to try to drag her into your accusations is typical of what I have seen happen on the other board.  It's inflammatory and untrue, but it's how you people seem to create your "facts." I can assure you that my daughter has her own political opinions, and she and I don't always agree, unlike you, but we at least respect each other's right to their opinion and often have respectable, interesting, informative debates with each other.  She was taught respect and learned it very well. You can't hold a candle to the intelligent, respectful young lady that she is, so don't even try because you're way out of your league. As far as going back to the conservative board, thanks, but no thanks. I've already explained my reasons for not going back there any more. People are much more respectful of differing opinions on this board.


My post to gt was simply to tell her that I understand what it's like to be accused of all sorts of things simply because you post on a board.  It happened to me on the conservative board on my first (and last) visit there, which is why I won't return.


Do I think some of the things gt said were over the top?  I sure do.  Do I understand why she said them?  My guess is that she was trying to communicate with you in the only way you seem to understand, since civil attempts don't seem to work with some of you people.  I think I can "understand" her motives, just like some of you "understand" why Eric Rudolph murdered innocent people. And between the two, I'd much rather try to "understand" gt than "Eric" (as he appears to be affectionately referred to elsewhere on this board).


sm is not me. And I offered to leave too. It's on the board. SM
look for yourself.  Geesh.
I second that American Woman. Don't leave.

You have added much to the liberal board.  Don't let them run you off. That's what they come here for.  Don't give them what they want.


I'm not bashing and I never agreed to leave
but I am growing tired of this so that should give you some hope.
yeah we'll leave you to your
leave you to your bong and love beads. You all talk a big game but your brain cells are too fried to actually do anything for this country
Because you won't leave which makes you a PEST.

LOL! and leave MY great country
to the Bu$shbots?

I think not. Better to stay and fight for what is right.
Well then quit threatening to leave
because you just keep getting my hopes up.

Stay or leave I really don't care, because the sane people who are the MAJORITY in this country will protect us all from the likes of you...a hate filled leftist.