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When originally posted on the web site, it said it was required ..

Posted By: this was changed ... on 2008-11-12
In Reply to: He's not forcing anybody to do it - - Amanda

I have seen the images before and after ...

you can bet my kid will do it if there is a tax credit ...

but hey -- guess what? He does stuff anyway without being forced or bribed ...


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Let's get to the heart of what I originally posted...
CBS, the same network that trotted her back out on Sunday, filed a brief with the US District Court stating emphatically that she was not covert at the time of the incident, therefore the reporters in question should not have to reveal their sources. CBS, like the good liberal mouthpiece it is, was trying to defend the first amendment...freedom of speech and the right of reporters to keep their sources anonymous...you know, to PROTECT whistle-blowers. Any other time, you would be FOR that.

I was pointing out the hypocrisy...CBS filed a brief stating they did not believe she was covert. And then they bring her on their network, supporting her statement that she was.

You cannot have it both ways.
Both of those are facts.

And, logically speaking...if a person goes to the CIA every day, sits at a desk in the CIA offices, gets a check from the CIA, chances are that person works for the CIA. And since when do covert operatives get a desk job and walk in and out of Langley every day? Surely common sense should win out here. While she was covert at one time, she was not at the time of the incident.

There is much more common sense evidence on the side of that than on the side that she was still covert.

What about Richard Armitage? Is he a liar too?
NOW IT SAYS THAT ..originally it did not.
c
am originally from Michigan sm
Oakland County and alot of my reltives still live there.  Some are retired from GM.  It is really bad up there.  Lots of folks on my sister's street with no jobs and more losing jobs every day.  I was up there in September and the houses for sale are unreal!
Good, then since you followed her, you know that originally she had nothing but praise SM
for President Bush, right?  He met with her and she thought he was WONDERFUL.  So since you have followed her, you do remember that part, right?
I am from a conservative state originally...
but my parents were lifelong Democrats. But...and a big but...they were Zell Miller-type Democrats. I have not voted for a Democrat for the presidency...although I have voted for more middle of the road Democrats for congress. I voted for a pro life democrat for the state senate last time around because I liked what he had to say more than the Republican. As you can imagine from that state, being pro life is important to me in a candidate.

I have enjoyed talking with you! :)
This woman is originally from my town
I saw on the news last night that this woman is originally from the city I live in.  They say that she and her son were interviewed up here in 2004 about how hard it was for lower income people to get health care and pay for it and then miraculously her and her son ended up down in Florida in the City where the president was speaking sleeping in their truck.  I think that is too much of a coincidence to be real.  Plus that truck looked awful nice for 2 people who had been out of work for 9 months and according to the story here they had been out of work up here too before they left for Florida.  I think they were a plant, but by which party?  They both are looking good by helping these people.
I am originally from California and personally know...
many people who voted for the proposition against gay marriage.
I am originally from California and personally know...
many people who voted for the proposition against gay marriage--none of them from Orange County. People forget that there is more to California than the southern parts.
I am originally from California and personally know...
many people who voted for the proposition against gay marriage--none of them from Orange County.
FYI, they originally called themselves 'teabaggers'.
x
look up def of required
The last time I knew "required" meant mandatory.  And that WAS right off of is website, that is until people, that are not cloudy over O, started complaining about the "required" word and they changed it.  But he is trying to get away with it.  Talk to me in a year and tell me how you feel then.  If I am wrong, I will admit it.  Will you?
I didn't know anyone was required to
x
Every politician should be required...
To take one year of American history and one year of world history before ever being allowed to run for any kind of public office. Then maybe they wouldn't keep repeating the same mistakes over and over again.
No one should ever be required to say a pledge to anyone or anything.
Pledges are personal choices. Being forced to recite one is the opposite of freedom.
Every child in every classroom has the right to refuse to pledge.
required to hate??
What Christian religion is that - mine sure does not require me to hate. Mine teaches me to love. And yes, it is quite possible to hate the sin and love the sinner. That is what God does every day. Ask anyone who has ever loved a drug addict, an abuser, someone who lied, someone who shoplifted something, etc., etc., etc. You can hate their behavior but still love the person. And of course it is judging to say something is disgusting. that is your opinion, not everyone else's. Thus, it is a judgment, not a fact. Have you yourself never sinned in any way? Did you expect people to them hate you because they may have hated what you did? Of are you above everyone else?
Gonzales not required to take oath??
That just beats all. Why even have him testify if he is not required to tell the truth UNDER OATH? Not too hard to figure out where this is all coming from - reminds one of the way Bush visited with the 9/11 commission but refused to be put under oath.

The question is, and always has been - why is this administration so terrified of telling the truth?

The word is that Rove is threatening to withdraw all Republican funding and support from any Republican senator or representative who fails to fall in line with the administration's ambition of unbridled above-the-law autonomy. If they so much as make a peep about protecting the Constitution rather than dear leader, they're dead in the water. It's kind of pathetic watching them all sweat and stutter and grovel, heh - might even be entertaining if it wasn't such an important issue.

No effort required. Just one finger.
(And that would be the middle one, of course.)
Why not? The basic minimum that should be required. nm
.
Whistleblowers on this were required to monitor
their spouses, for starters, and also conversations of Doctors without Borders and Red Cross personnel (aid workers). The conversations were recorded. Legally speaking, this falls under the category of search and seizure and requires a warrant showing just cause. If that sounds familiar, it should, since right to privacy and protections against unreasonable search and seizure are encoded in the Constitution. There are a number of privacy issues that come into play available to illustrate what a slimey, slippery slope this can be. Suffice to say that what we have here is a government agency behaving as voyeurs, abusing their power, thumbing their noses at the law and violating the constitutional rights of Americans serving our country. I am grappling for an explanation that justifies such offensive behavior. Eqally as disturbing is the notion that that some Americas with entrenched post-911 Patriot Act mentality accept this as status quo.
If they wear red, white and blue, they are not REQUIRED to
.
FYI. Joe the unlicensed required to be licensed in Ohio.
Joe the unlicensed's 15 minutes has raised the ire of Tom Joseph, business manager for Local 50 of the United Association of Plumbers, Steamfitters, and Service Mechanics of Ohio, who claimed that Joe didn’t undergo any apprenticeship training. "When you have guys going out there with no training whatsoever, it’s a little disreputable to start with," Mr. Joseph said. "We’re the real Joe the Plumber." "This individual has got no schooling, no licenses, he’s never been to a training program, union or nonunion, in the United States of America," Mr. Joseph said. Working for a licensed plumber does not quite cut it.

Wondering if your husband has read Obama's plan for small business, for example the Making Work Pay tax credit (not a rate cut, a direct tax credit)? There is a lot of information there under issues and subheading economics. There is a section there on small business. Not a good idea to buy into the spreading the wealth mantra without that information.

The exposure of Joe the Plumber as a sham makes one raise the question of his autheticity and the possibility of his being a McCain campaign plant at that rally. The bigger picture on this is that Joe himself is being exploited by McCain's campaign (currently not something he is enjoying, having lost his privacy) in their assertions that they will look after the interests of the working class. Flies in the face of the fact that McCain himself has not even spoken the phrase middle class out of his own mouth. The "welfare" rhetoric characterizing spread the wealth as socialism sounds a bit hostile toward the middle class...the economic class of most small business owners he claims to be so concerned about.
REQUIRED IN ORDER TO GET THE COLLEGE CREDIT! NM
x
required and mandatory if you want the $4000 for college - nm
x
You put up THIS site or the site you said to check out
Unless you are the administrator which I highly doubt you didn't put up THIS site.
This site.
When I said this site, I meant the site to the link I originally put up not the LIBERAL board.  Of course I am not the administrator.  Geeze get a life, you dissect and pick apart anything that is posted here.
On that particular web site, yes, I would

 sign what they asked me to sign which was a thank you to Harry Taylor for saying what so many of us feel and have felt for the last 5-1/2 years. I am willing to sign any petition that decries this administration and its horrendous policies. I know all about Not In Our Name but thanks for your article. 


I was proud that I stood up for what I believed during in the 70s and that I continue to walk my talk to this day.  Being arrested just proved that I was willing to do whatever it took to be heard and I would do it again today. I have the courage of my convictions and I am proud of that.


You question my causes...what does that mean?? You don't like the organizations I support and you just felt the need to share that with me...


Also, the state of our union is beyond party politics; we are so far beyond  differences in ideologies; I am not following any party line in saying that I would sign a petition. I am following my conscience and my gut and history, not the Democratic party.


 


I was just on her site. There is nothing there about it. sm
I think most of us are waiting to hear from Bruce himself. I don't trust any of the other sources.
I came across this site while

looking for more information on this whole situation.


http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52545


I have never seen nor heard of this web site  but it explains a little more about what happened. It is confusing. The assistant DA said it violates the 4th amendment to shoot someone you don't know, don't know what he is doing, is unarmed and running away. At first I thought, well that makes sense; that's the law but then it doesn't make sense because this was not a case on Law and Order with cops making mistakes carrying out the arrest of American citizens, no matter how despicable their crimes. This was the border patrol doing their jobs, umm, patrolling the border and the person in question is not an American citizen. I am not, as you may suspect, as hard on the immigrants as some are. I don't know what the answer is. This country is not big enough for everyone to live here, yet when I see starving, poverty-beyond-belief kids living in the sewer systems in Brazil and Mexico and being killed periodically by the police because they (the police) have no answers either. It is almost like euthanizing pets at the humane shelter. They just don't know what else to do, the kids are starving, learning how to survive on the street which means more and more crime...its heartbreaking to me anyway. But that has nothing to do with this. I think these guys got a raw deal, not sure why but 12 and 11 years is way out of line. 


Site
I just copied and pasted it and it came right up.
Take a look at this site.

http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008/09/update-fannie-mae-and-freddie.html


It shows the amount of money in a 20-year period and BO has gotten a helluva lot more money in a 4 year period than McCain has in 20 years. 


I have seen that site before, however
it only lists contributions from individuals and PACs. Directors, officers, and lobbyists are not included in that chart. I am not denying Obama took money. My point is look at all the numbers, not just a select few. I think the TOTAL amount of contributions is important.

I am not so blinded by either candidate that I am going to defend them no matter what.
Thanks for that site -- both of my

senators voted in favor.  Hoping my rep will see it definitely. 


Not sure which site she was at - sm
I just went to his web site. There is a short video of him talking about things being hard the past 8 years, he goes on to say we need a new direction and he has a plan. He says "your savings? We'll rebuild them. Your investments? They'll grow again. Energy? We'll drill here and we'll create a renewable energy economy. Lower taxes and less spending will protect your job and create new ones. That will restore our country. Stand up with me, let's fight for America. I'm John McCain and I approved this message".

That's a positive message to me and I don't see any negativity. Nothing about Obama on the site.

Then to the side there's buttons that lead to differnet things to view on his site (his job plan, healthcare plan, and taxes). I'm looking all over the site for something negative and can't find anything. Are you sure she went to the right site. I'll post a link below. I'd hate her to get a false message.

As for his family and such. I would rather read about his plans for America and what he's going to do for America. I need facts about the candidates. I wish your daughter best of luck with her project. It's great when kids get involved with politics. Here is the site your daughter should go to. It's the official McCain website and it's quite positive.

http://www.johnmccain.com/landing/
This site might help. (sm)
http://www.howstuffworks.com/electoral-college.htm
Another Site
This one breaks it down with exactly how much money is going where.

http://www.propublica.org/special/the-stimulus-plan-a-detailed-list-of-spending
It is not the DHS site.
x
It SHOULD be on the DHS site.......ya know,
xx
Here's another site where you can

register your vote, see percentages of how the rest of the country is voting on it, and check candidates' voting records on bills.  You can get a synopsis of the text of bills (yeah, I know, lots of luck with 1200 pages.) 


http://www.thepeopledecide.us/index.php


Quote from this site. sm

“heatherb” a Soldier from OK, submitted 9-6-04:


“You cannot tell me that we are not doing the right thing when you watch little kids run, literally run from their one room mud hut a mile away from the road come running as your convoy is passing just to wave, not to beg for food or water, just to wave. Or to be a woman and invited to sit amoung the Iraqi men and share their Chai with them and listen as they share their stories of the days when their country was oppressed. To have shared such time with the people of tha t country and to have learned about their culture and that they are such a powerful proud people. And to know that I was a part of liberating that, makes me proud to have gone over there to give those kids that run up to us all those times the chance to never have tell the stories that the men sharing tea told, but listen to them as I did. We are doing the right thing regardless of the disillusion of our politicians. Be proud of what you've done. I am."


God Bless them.


Credible site


What I would tend NOT to believe is government figures as to how many are out there.  I know for a fact that a friend of mine in 2000 received $2,000 per month from the VA, in addition to Social Security benefits of a few more hundred dollars, for his PTSD disability, along with free medication from the VA to the tune of 200 5-mg Valiums per month in addition to 200 15-mg Serax tablets per month. 


I have no idea what today's monthly payments are to these veterans.  After repeated unsuccessful attempts to commit suicide on the pills the VA gave him (with the full knowledge of the VA), he finally succeeded in 2000 and is no longer with us.


I know firsthand what the effects of this disease are.  It's not conjecture.  It's fact.


As far as a credible site, how about this VETERANS site? 


http://www.veteransforcommonsense.org/index.cfm?Page=Article&id=2468&NoMenu=1


Battling the Effects of War



Combat can wound the mind. New science helps vets from Iraq to cope



By Peg Tyre


Newsweek


December 6, 2004


 


It wasn't the gunshot wound in the arm that bothered Jose Hernandez when he returned home to Cincinnati after serving in Iraq. It was the lock on the front door. He couldn't relax until he secured it twice, three times and sometimes more. Even then he was still on edge. "I kept thinking about the things I saw over there—shooting on the streets, dead bodies and the terror in people's eyes. I couldn't get it out of my mind," says Hernandez, who served in the Army's 101st Airborne Division. He stopped sleeping, withdrew from friends and dropped plans to go back to college. His girlfriend finally demanded that he get help. A Veterans Administration psychiatrist diagnosed Hernandez with posttraumatic stress disorder, or PTSD, a potentially crippling mental condition caused by extreme stress.




Hernandez says he was one of the lucky ones. With a combination of antianxiety medication and talk therapy, his symptoms have begun to fade. Many of the 170,000 men and women now returning from Iraq and Afghanistan may not be as fortunate. When they get home, tens of thousands of them will be grappling with psychological problems such as PTSD, anxiety, mood disorders and depression. Though scientists are learning just how trauma affects the brain—and how best to help patients heal—there are still many obstacles to getting the treatment to the people who need it most. For starters, no one knows how many soldiers will be affected or how serious their problems will become. Early in the war the Army surveyed 3,671 returning Iraq veterans and found that 17 percent of the soldiers were already suffering from depression, anxiety and symptoms of PTSD.



Experts say those numbers are likely to grow. A study of Vietnam veterans conducted in 1980 found that 30 percent suffered from an anxiety condition later dubbed PTSD. Experts say the protracted warfare in Iraq—with its intense urban street fighting, civilian combatants and terrorism—could drive PTSD rates even higher. National Guard members, who make up 40 percent of the fighting force, with less training and less cohesive units, may be more vulnerable to psychological injuries than regular soldiers. Last year 5,100 soldiers who fought in Iraq or Afghanistan sought treatment in VA clinics for PTSD. That figure is expected to triple.



PTSD, a specific diagnosis, is not the only psychological damage soldiers can sustain. And experts say that mental disorders can make the already rugged transition from military to civilian life a harrowing one. Soldiers can experience depression, hypervigilance, insomnia, emotional numbing, recurring nightmares and intrusive thoughts. And in many cases, the symptoms worsen with time, leaving the victims at higher risk for alcohol and drug abuse, unemployment, homelessness and suicide. Sometimes families can become collateral damage. Christine Hansen, executive director of the Miles Foundation, which runs a hot line for domestic-violence victims in the military, says that since start of the Iraq war, calls have jumped from 50 to more than 500 a month.





Without treatment, some conditions such as chronic PTSD can be lethal. Five years after the Vietnam War, epidemiologists studying combat veterans found that they were nearly twice as likely to die from motor-vehicle accidents and accidental poisoning than veterans who didn't see combat. In a 30-year follow up, published in the Archives of Internal Medicine this year, the same combat vets continued to die at greater rates and remained especially vulnerable to drug overdose and accidental poisoning. "We had the John Wayne syndrome," says Vietnam veteran Greg Helle, who grappled with severe PTSD for decades. "We were men, we'd been to war. We thought we could tough it out." Doctors hadn't developed effective treatment for PTSD and besides, says Helle, seeking help was an admission of weakness.



Doctors now know that PTSD is the product of subtle biological changes that occur in the brain in response to extreme stress. Using sophisticated imaging techniques, researchers now believe that extreme stress alters the way memory is stored. During a major upheaval, the body releases massive doses of adrenaline which speeds up the heart, quickens the reflexes and, over several hours, burns vivid memories that are capable of activating the amygdala, or fear center, in the brain. People can get PTSD, doctors say, when that mechanism works too well. Instead of creating protective memories (ducking at the sound of gunfire), says Dr. Roger Pitman, a psychiatry professor at Harvard Medical School, "the rush of adrenaline creates memories that intrude on everyday life and without treatment, can actually hinder survival."



Why some people get PTSD and others don't remains a mystery. Recent studies suggest that a predisposition to the disorder may be genetic and that previous traumatic experiences can make soldiers more vulnerable to it. Once a soldier has it, though, says Dr. Matthew Friedman, executive director of the Department of Veterans Affairs National Center for PTSD, the good news is that the medical community now knows that "PTSD is very real and very treatable."



The challenge, says Friedman, is getting help—counseling or drug treatment—to veterans who need it most. As the Iraq war continues, officials at the Department of Defense and the VA are scrambling. After a rash of suicides among soldiers, they've increased the number of psychiatrists and psychologists in combat areas. Social workers trained to spot PTSD and other mental disorders are assigned to military hospitals around the country. Primary-care physicians at VA clinics and hospitals are now able to access combat records to see if their patients might be at risk for PTSD. Doctors are issued wallet-size reminders on how to spot PTSD and refer patients for further treatment. The VA has recently hired about 50 veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan to do outreach in the Vet Centers, a system of 206 community-based mental-health clinics around the country. But their resources are limited: Congress has set aside an additional $5 million a year for three years to deal with the new mental-health problem.



VA officials admit they're not catching everyone who needs help. National Guard members often do many tours and can be exposed to more combat than regular soldiers. But instead of rotating back to military bases where they can be monitored, they often return to their hometowns where readjustment problems can become a family crisis. If they begin to exhibit signs of PTSD or other psychological problems, they need to get help quickly. The VA will provide mental-health benefits for them for only two years following their service [The article is incorrect: Vet Center benefits are available for the remainder of a combat veterans life, not just two years; however, some physical care benefits are available for only two years].



Regular soldiers get mental-health benefits indefinitely.



Help came too late for Marine reservist Jeffrey Lucey. In July 2003, he returned home to Belchertown, Mass., from Iraq and gradually sank into a deep depression. His family looked on in anguish as he began drinking too much and isolating himself from their close-knit clan. By spring of 2004, he'd stopped sleeping, eating and attending college. When his sister Debra Lucey tried to have a heart-to-heart, "he'd describe the terrible things he'd seen and done," she says, "and he'd always end by saying 'You'll never be able to understand'." Frantic, family members had him committed to a psychiatric hospital but he was soon released. A few weeks later he crashed the family car, and the following month a neighbor found him wandering the streets in the middle of the night dressed in full camouflage with two battle knives he'd been issued in Iraq. Last June, Jeffrey Lucey hanged himself in the basement of his family home.



Shortly before he died, Lucey talked to an Iraq vet turned counselor at his local Vet Center. "He said he'd found someone who could really understand," says Debra. But before he could keep his next appointment, his demons took hold. Now Debra is telling her brother's story in the hope that others find the help they need in time. Psychological problems, she says, are an enemy that no soldier should face alone.



funny site

 


http://www.toostupidtobepresident.com/index.htm


IPs can only be seen by the Administrator of this site.
t
posting site
another good place to post is communicate.excite.com.
Check out this site
http://www.filmstripinternational.com/index.php?asshole
Great Site

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/


I just wanted to share this website with my fellow liberals in case you haven't seen it yet.  Lots of interesting news and hot topics regarding our concerns about the right wing nuts.


This is a very informative site.

Thanks for posting it.  I'd be interested in knowing your views on the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty in 1967 (killing 34 American soldiers and wounding 171). 


Also, how do you feel about Israel spying on the United States?


We all pretty much know Hezbollah's/Iran's/Syria's role in all this.  I think it's time we take a good look at the other countries involved in this region including America and Israel.


Again, thank you for a very interesting and informative site.  I hope you keep posting.  I think I can learn a lot from you.


This is really not such an informative site.
This is a very small handful of Jews (I am Jewish) and they are here in the United States.  They have lost touch with what is happening in Israel.  The rest of what you are saying is just confusing to me.  What are you getting at?  To see the few posters on this board, all of a sudden, Israel is the great evil and Hezbollah are saints. It's really sickening.
Nice web site
Very many thanks for a good work. Nice and useful. Like it!
Try reading this site. SM
You might also learn what actions of the prostestors during VN had on the soldiers who fought there then, just as they are now.
Can someone direct me to a site (sm)

that states the candidates' detailed respective platforms at a glance? I've watched most of the debates, as much as I can anyhow,  but I've not been able glean and distinguish a lot of specifics. 


I'm in FL and vote on Tuesday.  Believe it or not, I am undecided.  I liked Dennis, but he pulled out today and probably wouldn't have voted for him... won't go into why, but I'm sure I don't have to :-)


Dennis says to go Obama.... not sure if I want to.  What I want is to have a Dem president.  I like Edwards...


My demographic falls into Hilary's (female 45 and over lol).


Input appreciated. 


Actually, I got it off the CBS News site....
Apparently, THEY got it off Politico. CBS is HARDLY a right wing news source. And there were no caveats on their site. Yes, Murtha has added some caveats, as I knew he would, but the fact remains, he said it.

Thanks for jumping in and being so judgmental, Taiga. Par for the course.