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YES, I most certainly would if it meant sacrificing my morals, my soul, hurting.....sm

Posted By: Cyndiee on 2009-02-26
In Reply to: would you have a problem with being rich? - now be honest.........MsMT

other people everywhere, and basically being a cut-throat sleeze. I would love if I could get rich honestly, with integrity. I would love to provide the best educations for my children, give to charities, pay off my two sisters' mortgages for them, etc., but it is NOT going to happen, so it is a moot point. A person can be "rich and prosperous" without a large bank account, I feel I am rich indeed for my blessings.


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So if he knows your soul before you have a body, and the body he planned for that soul is killed (sm
Does he just give the same soul to a different body? Just curious how your beliefs work.
Exactly what are you sacrificing?

Gay marriage:  Do you have to see it?  No.  Do you have to believe in it?  No.  Do you have to live around it?  No.  Does it change your faith?  No.  Does it redefine the Bible?  No.  Does it change your marriage?  No.  Exactly how is it supposed to affect you -- the majority?


How is Army Mom sacrificing her son?
Do you really think people are that stupid?  Just like Casey Sheehan ENLISTED.  Army Mom's child ENLISTED too.   You feel the way you feel, but DON'T YOU DARE try to tell us how to feel.  DON'T YOU DARE tell a mother she's sacrificing her son or daughter.  Parent's don't hold that power.  It is completely up to the child  You don't hold the corner on how we should all feel and you will not preach to me and tell me how I should feel.
Neither is Christianity hurting anyone......
--
The Canadian ecomomy is hurting just like the US economy, Why are you stunned? nm
.
Truth is, Bush's Texas tort reform is hurting everyone.
Except, of course, his rich friends. That's so much better, isn't it, than laws which address the issues directly and favor the greatest number of citizens?

Texan tort reform that was W's payback to the wealthy who put him in office in Texas has been a disastrous model, giving doctors less incentive than ever to perform skillfully and leaving thousands of people with no recourse when they are medically victimized because they can't afford any longer to bring a justified lawsuit or can't prove the doctor intended to cause harm (a ridiculous qualifier). Insurance rates have gone UP instead of down for everyone despite the fact that tort reform was sold on the platform of cutting rates due to fewer insurance payouts. And, those who can manage to get a case into court no longer have the right to have a jury hear their case. Activist pro-Republican pro-big-business judges are all they've got in some cases, which means they haven't a fair chance at a favorable outcome.

That's life in crony capital USA!

But oooh, let's pretend it really *is* medical lawsuits that are the villains, and let's boo and hiss at the lawyers who make sloppy doctors and sellers of defective merchandise fear being held accountable for their actions. Isn't that what life in Bushworld is all about? - relieving the very best among us from any civic and legal responsibility for the destruction and death they cause? Let's all cheer for that! Go on sm, cheer some more for losing your right to sue a drunk doctor who kills your child! Cheer for your higher insurance rates! Cheer for your free market enterprise unfettered with quality laws, because you know they're going to be more concerned about the safety of those products they sell you than they are about making more money! Heck yeah, why shouldn't we all love that? We're all morons, we love it when they stick it to us! We can't get enough of that, nosiree!
And as far as your cat not having a soul sm
Does that mean that anyone who has a pet and decides they don't want it can just kill it? hmmm, I'll have to check with PETA on that.
Like I said.......this man has no morals.....
@@
Then there would be no morals
Just a lot of contradicting dictators with their own ego agenda.
Your morals are not everyone's morals.
What is so hard to understand about that? You think that everyone should behave exactly the way you want them to behave, believe whatever you want them to believe, and act however you want them to act. The last time I checked, this was still a free country. Stop trying to impose your beliefs on others.
No morals is what's going
in our country. Drugs, same-sex "marriage," abortion, taking God out of every conversation. When drug use is commonplace, when people of the same sex demand "marriage" and affirmation, when you are allowed to dispose of your unborn children, when using God's name is illegal, what do you expect? To many people, children are dispensable at any age.
I listen to my own soul
I dont speak for other people.  I speak for myself..If others do not agree with me, great, that is the beauty of America..they have that right..I do not walk in lock step like brainwashed republicans do.  I choose what party to belong to, whom to vote for, how to believe..It is all up to me.so other democrats do not agree with me?  Wonder how you have the inside on how other democrats believe..however, that is okay..they can believe any which way they want.. 
I definitely don't base it JUST on morals
I guess I should have been more elaborate on that. And you are completely right, most presidents change their tune after they get into the white house. I feel like we are almost gambling when we vote, who will change less?

Honestly, if we could take the candidates and even the VPs and just mush them into one candidate, I think we would be flying pretty high.

I think my biggest fear right now is that myself and a lot of people I know are one step from losing our homes and standing in the breadline. I Get upset that my husband and I both work extremely hard to keep what we have (which isn't much) but that we can't seem to get any assistance whatsoever. Yet someone can have seven kids and never work a day in her life and be taken care of. Do I think this will change? No. I feel like the middle class in the economy is a lot like "the middle child" in a family - often forgotten about, but expected to behave anyways.

On religion, check out my reply to Kaydie. I've written a short summary of a part of the book I mentioned to her in response to you saying that Jesus was a highly evolved human being (I used to believe the same thing)

Josh Mcdowell puts it like this: either Jesus was a liar, a lunatic, or Lord.

If he spent his life telling everyone that he was the Son of God and getting people to believe and follow him and he knew that he wasn't, then he was a liar. But the question poses, can someone that evil hearted (remember a lot of his disciples left there homes, family, jobs, etc to follow Him and were even killed defending His name) never do wrong? See I believe that there were enough people that hated Jesus that after he died if someone tried to talk about how great he was they would have been writing about ANYTHING wrong he did if they knew that he did. We would have heard about it.

Lunatic - If he did all this not knowing that he was being deceptive, and he really believed that he was the Son of God, then he had to be crazy. But this is crazy to the tenth power. Most lunatics who believe they are something else believe they are something tangible, such as a dog or a butterfly or another human. To believe that your the Son of God (remember, there was no Son of God in history before him, so it's not like it was a term thrown around or an unoriginal idea) is very unlikely. Not to mention how eloquent of a speaker Jesus was and how he was so easily able to explain things.

Lord - If Jesus was neither a liar or a lunatic, then he must be who he says he is - Lord, the Son of God. And since the Son of God cannot sin, he cannot lie, which means when he says "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life, no one comes to the Father EXCEPT by me" then he must not be lying.

Josh Mcdowell explains this a lot better than I can (that's why he's a PhD and I'm an MT! :-D ) but in case you never get to check out his book, I just wanted to give a recap. It helped me make my decision that he is Lord, because for a long time I wanted to believe that he was just "a great man" or "a great teacher" but I feel now that it was so rude of me to say that of someone who personally died for me.

Just my ideas! Thanks for giving me yours! It's nice to be able to talk back and forth about this without anyone getting upset! :-D
alive, maybe, but no soul
I don't believe the fetus has a soul regardless of whether it moves or not. My cat moves too and I love her, but I don't fool myself into thinking she is a spiritual being. I have 2 children and yes it was exciting to feel them move, but honestly, it is just not the same for most Jews. We don't have baby showers, buy things for babies, decorate the room, etc. until after the birth when the child becomes "alive."


My morals are my business.
I am not interested in discussing my morals, especially with people who are trying to shove their morals and their religion down my throat. That's the whole point of my post. Keep your moral and religious beliefs to yourself!
Define morals.......

Your definition might not match mine.......That's why God gave us free will.


I'm praying for you and your dark soul.

On that morals and values question...
May I point out one way that Emanuel is most definitely NOT left wing liberal. On the issue of Israel, he is more to the right than even Bush is. To be honest, the idea of his being Chief of Staff to Obama is concerning for me in THAT regard. However, that post is a very broad one and I do not pretend to know precisely what Obama's motivations may be for considering him. What I do know is that Emanuel is only one voice in many that Obama will be listening to. I have not heard that Emanuel has accepted the position but I know that he has expressed his passion for the legislative branch, has his eye on the Speaker's position and has personal considerations of being the father of small children. This is in the wait and see mode. I feel I do not have enough information on him yet and am trying not to focus on what I consider to be a strong negative about him.

In terms of your fear, I will gently suggest to you that you might try broadening your base of information sources beyond O'Reilly, if you haven't already done that. It is not surprising that Bill O's guests are calling Obama a puppet. I hear none of that anywhere else but Fox. As difficult as it may be, a good dose of balance AND extreme viewpoints may be helpful in this respect. I hold my nose quite often and listen to Rush Limbaugh (ugh), Bill O and Hannity, though I confess I have a pretty low tolerance to them. I also tune into Lou Dobbs, Anderson Cooper, Wolf Blitzer, Cafferty, Joe Scarborough (not terribly fond of him either), Chris Matthews, Keith Olbermann, Rachel Maddow, Amy Goodman, Juan Gonzalez, Naomi Klein and innumerable independent journalists. I find that approach very effective in soothing the fear factor and to be much more engaging.

You may be right to a certain extent about the morals and values. We are not living in the same world and our nations best interests will not be best served if we try to pretend we are. That is what the dynamics of change is all about. As a species, human beings have survived BECAUSE of their capacity to adapt to change. The internet and free trade act has transformed our country into a vital component of a global economic and cultural system. We must now take on the task of defining what role we want to assume within that context. The diversity of our nation's culture can remain a point of contention and division, or it can become a new source of our strength and pride. This choice is ours to make and I believe this election has been a mandate on where the younger generations stand on this issue. After all, they are the ones who have grown up in the midst of these population dynamics.

In this respect, it seems that our most basic and cherished values and beliefs do manage to endure as a nation, and what does not can always be elaborated in how we lives our personal lives. In the past, as a country we have managed to survive quite well during "liberal years." However, that is not what I believe is in store for us now. Whatever tectonic shifts we have undergone in the past (and we have had our share), never once have we been able to negotiate them against a backdrop of a house divided, as gourdpainter pointed out earlier. We unite, we rise to the occasion and we get past it.

I think part of our peek into the future will inevitably require us to place much more focus on new energies and phase out our dependence and relentless and, at times, fatal search for fossil fuel resources. I cannot think of a better way to diffuse the power that those "not so friendly nations" hold over us now. Jobs do not necessarily have to come from the oil patch and there are alternatives to trying to drill our way out of these problems as T. Bone Pickens so eloquently reminded us recently. Any new jobs creation will have that domino effect you describe.

Obama hardly is a one-issue candidate (tax) the way Bill O would have you believe. I will not spend my time trying to promote the president-elect, except to say you may find some comfort in at least reading his Blueprint for Change, whether you trust him to carry it out or not. He has put this is writing and no doubt the media and the electorate will be holding his feet to the fire with those words and promises. So it looks like we are back to wait and see again.

BTW, a good antidote to fear is hope and faith....and that does not necessarily mean Obama style hope. Being hopeful and drawing strength from faith is also a very personal choice one makes in life. It is not that hard to talk yourself into a more positive attitude. Just talk the talk and walk the walk and pretty soon, it becomes second nature.

yeah well America's morals have changed
interracial marriages used to be illegal. One day we ill look upon the ban against gay marriage to be as rediculous of a notion as not allowing blacks to go to school with whites. The times, they are a changin!
Religionopathy strikes another poor soul blind.

Nevermind the soul for a moment....let's talk about LIFE.
The law says killing someone is murder. It does not say anything about killing someone with a soul is murder. The baby is alive, and it is being killed. That's murder.
I agree...Imagine the brave soul who would give an oppositional opinion...sm
It would be career suicide IMHO.
Amazing, a large, successful company with a heart and soul, putting America first?? Congrats to Int
nm
What I meant was....
why can we not protect the unborn children first? Are they not as deserving as homeless, poor, etc.? That was my point. I do not see, nor do I ever expect to see, liberals exhorting us to take care of unborn children as a part of taking care of the least among us. I have seen Conservatives exhort to take care of the least among us, including unborn children. Conservatives just want to put a limit on it, and regulate it a little more closely (as far as welfare, etc.). I don't have a problem with that either. And I give privately to Christian organizations that DO take care of the least among us. It does not have to go through the government to be effective. I guess that is where we differ.
What I meant was...

He should have said "no comment" first thing when he addressed the American people - when he said the whole "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" thing.  At that point he was not obligated to comment, and he shouldn't have.


I am not a "Clintonite" or whatever you said.  I just think he was a more intelligent person than Bush.  Although I despise Bush, I really do like his wife Laura.  I think she seems like a very caring, very genuine person.


I do NOT plan to vote for Hilary.  I plan to vote for Barack Obama if he makes it that far.  I think he could really improve the health insurance crisis in America.  I never hear Republican candidates talking about making healthcare more affordable, and therefore I will probably vote for a Democrat.


I meant
In the last paragraph I meant to write posting "false" information, not "fall".
Not quite sure if it is a pub or a dem who meant DNC....lol nm
nm
Sorry that was meant for OP nm
x
I think you meant that some
or maybe even many Obama supporters are educated. Just like McCain supporters.
Meant I wonder......
.
Her's what I meant
Not true meant that I'm not a rabid Republican (I'm a conservative).  That's why the RINOS need to get the heck out of the RNC.  They've ruined it.  Also, they're frauds.
yes, that is what I meant
I have no idea why I typed Otis Small?? Good night GP
Not what I meant.

What I meant was that I hope he has the opportunity to serve out the full four years and/or that this election isn't contested for some reason resulting in the involvement of the Supreme Court.  For example, I see the GOP is filing a lawsuit against Obama, alleging he used campaign funds when he visited his grandmother for the last time.


I hope we can all get along and not be as divided as we have been for the past few years, and I hope that nothing happens that would cause such division. 


Again, I thought the post you wrote was very classy.  Thanks. 


I meant...
As O's father is Muslim and O's mother Christian, they had to decide how they were going to raise O.
That what I meant.
I am roman catholic.
What? Oh, you must have MEANT to say
nm
I only meant where did it come from?
WHY the OP posted it

but aren't you classy

obviously he meant that he wants
to win over the moderates and fight the terrorists with his strategy.
I believe what you meant to say was
the hard working class of people that this entire country was founded on is going by the wayside, instead being replaced by an invasion of another country and their people to add to the already overwhelmed small population of people that work to pay for those who have spent generation after generation mooching off of the working class.

If not being lazy makes me self righteous, then so be it.

That is not what I meant.

Out of all the earmarks in the bill 60% were dems and 40% were pubs.  I didn't mean the whole bill was 100% earmarks. 


Meant what I put
knew such smart people here (I) could just get ......

still going at it, thanks for the snippy response.
I meant to say..
We already have laws in place that work to protect people from being harmed or killed.
You never meant a socialist Jew! sm
What do you think they come up to you and say hi, I am a socialist Jew.  Do you know Noam Chomsky?  How about David Horowitz's parents?  How about the Rosenbergs?  Shall I go on.  Do you wonder why almost all the actors blacklisted in Hollywood way back when were almost all JEWS?!? 
I meant... NOW shoe...nm
But I know you'll stay because you need us to validate yourself. You're not at your best unless you are in your leftist/lib basher mode, eh. Keep it up, and people like you will expose the right brotherhood for what it's worth.
That isn't what he meant but there is no use debating you.

Maybe logical thought escapes you.


Wow, did I say Liar. I really meant sm
deluded liar.  Yes, that's much better.  
It was not meant as an attack, I
that it might not be the wisest idea to go to a *liberal* board and call yourself something that runs counter to their belief system, and then expect to be treated like a long-lost son.

Further, I said the Democrats frustrate me to no end, and it is precisely for the very reasons you stated. They were too afraid of being branded as **unpatriotic** and **unsupportive of the troops**, blah,blah,blah. In their defense, however, sometimes they simply have not had the votes to over ride the president's agenda. Thank goodness for people like Murtha.

I apologize if you felt I was attacking you, as I think we have found some common ground. I think the other thing that happens is that sometimes words, if not chosen extra carefully, can come off sounding what they are not.
I meant I felt like it was an act....
I believe it was theatrics. The Hollywood reference was meant to say they would be proud of the acting job...nothing to do with all of Hollywood being amoral, though I believe a good portion of it is. But that could be said for other areas as well. I am also aware of staunch conservatives in Hollywood and I think God for them.
I never meant to infer that
W should NOT have gone to VT. If that is how you read it, then you misread or I mistyped. Of course he should have been there; it is just that there was SO much publicity about this tragedy and it does not appear (to me) that there is much of that for the American soldiers in Iraq; nothing on a national level.

I also never said that conservatives did not care about the war. What I meant was that in a country where only 50% of eligible voters turn out it is not unusual that so many Americans are disconnected from this war. I remember hearing people talk about WWII and seeing movies (not valid verification but nonetheless) and it seemed that the entire country was aligned behind **the cause.** I don't see that now. I bet you the family farm that I could go down to one of the city high schools or middle schools and ask a group of teenagers what they know about this war, what do they think we should or should not do and I feel certain I would get pretty much blank stares. That is what I mean about Americans not caring...maybe that is not the correct term. Most Americans are not engaged and don't feel a connection or much of an allegiance to **the cause.** No one sacrifices anything for this war but then that is one definition of secularism I have heard **Secularism is a life without sacrifice.

You see staying in Iraq as creating some kind of democracy where the people will live a better life. I don't. I see that the longer we stay, the more people die, both Americans and Iraqis. Altho I did not agree with this war, or any war for that matter, the possibility that Iraq could have been changed for the better did probably exist 4 years ago, but not now. I really believe our being there will make no difference, aside from more death, than us not being there. It is not cut and run to me. It is cut your losses and in my opinion that would be loss of life.

As far as Clinton and Somalia; I don't know much about the details of that situation. He was concerned about bin Laden; a lot of people were for a long time. I don't think this country would have supported a war in the middle east before 9/11 happened and that played a part as well. There is quite enough blame to go around for not foreseeing (sp) 9/11.


Knew what you meant
Isn't it awful when your own relatives treat you like dirt. My sister is mormon and she actually thinks I'm on the same level with manson, dahmer, hitler, etc because I'm not mormon (we both grew up going to methodist services with 12 years of sunday school). Inlaws treated us like garbage cos we didn't go to their church when we lived near them. I am a deeply spiritual person but I am not a Christian and I count myself blessed not to be in their crowd.
Nope, exactly how I meant it
Pretty self explanatory.
You Meant to Say McCain, Right?
Obviously you've confused the 2 candidates.  It's poor Senator McCain who can't think/talk at the same time.