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my code to validate my post was 666a. how strange is that!

Posted By: shelly on 2008-11-12
In Reply to:

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    Your figures just further validate Taiga's post.
    She said, "Actually the vote went by geography rather than party lines as is obvious below."  Your figures support that statement.
    The tax code is so
    complex that even the IRS doesn't understand it.  To me....this just opens up opportunities for people to "make mistakes" on their taxes.  I personally feel that we should pay a flat tax.  You make X amount of money per year, you pay X amount in taxes.  Stop all these loopholes and crazy deductions.
    The tax code is so
    complex that even the IRS doesn't understand it.  To me....this just opens up opportunities for people to "make mistakes" on their taxes.  I personally feel that we should pay a flat tax.  You make X amount of money per year, you pay X amount in taxes.  Stop all these loopholes and crazy deductions.
    I just saw Obama's ad about tax code...sm
    He says he wants to give companies a tax credit if they keep jobs in the US rather than outsourcing them and stop giving tax breaks to companies that ourtsource.  That is good news for us MTs. Also, stop tax breaks to the big oil companies who are making big profits, even now, and give those breaks to small businesses.  There were other suggestions too, but those 2 stood out in my mind.
    The Obama Code


    by: George Lakoff, t r u t h o u t | Perspective


    photo
    President Barack Obama. (Photo: Jae C. Hong / AP)



        As President Obama prepares to address a joint session of Congress, what can we expect to hear?

        The pundits will stress the nuts-and-bolts policy issues: the banking system, education, energy, health care. But beyond policy, there will be a vision of America - a moral vision and a view of unity that the pundits often miss.

        What they miss is the Obama Code.

        For the sake of unity, the President tends to express his moral vision indirectly. Like other self-aware and highly articulate speakers, he connects with his audience using what cognitive scientists call the "cognitive unconscious." Speaking naturally, he lets his deepest ideas simply structure what he is saying. If you follow him, the deep ideas are communicated unconsciously and automatically. The Code is his most effective way to bring the country together around fundamental American values.

        For supporters of the President, it is crucial to understand the Code in order to talk overtly about the old values our new president is communicating. It is necessary because tens of millions of Americans - both conservatives and progressives - don't yet perceive the vital sea change that Obama is bringing about.

        The word "code" can refer to a system of either communication or morality. President Obama has integrated the two. The Obama Code is both moral and linguistic at once. The President is using his enormous skills as a communicator to express a moral system. As he has said, budgets are moral documents. His economic program is tied to his moral system and is discussed in the Code, as are just about all of his other policies.

        Behind the Obama Code are seven crucial intellectual moves that I believe are historically, practically, and cognitively appropriate, as well as politically astute. They are not all obvious, and jointly they may seem mysterious. That is why it is worth sorting them out one-by-one.

        1. Values Over Programs

        The first move is to distinguish programs from the value systems they represent. Every policy has a material aspect - the nuts and bolts of how it works - plus a typically implicit cognitive aspect that represents the values and ideas behind the nuts and bolts. The President knows the difference. He understands that those who see themselves as "progressive" or "conservative" all too often define those words in terms of programs rather than values. Even the programs championed by progressives may not fit what the President sees as the fundamental values of the country. He is seeking to align the programs of his administration with those values.

        The potential pushback will come not just from conservatives who do not share his values, but just as much from progressives who make the mistake of thinking that programs are values and that progressivism is defined by a list of programs. When some of those programs are cut as economically secondary or as unessential, their defenders will inevitably see this as a conservative move rather than a move within an overall moral vision they share with the President.

        This separation between values and programs lies behind the president's pledge to cut programs that don't serve those values and support those that do - no matter whether they are proposed by Republicans or Democrats. The President's idealistic question is, what policies serve what values? - not what political interests?

        2. Progressive Values Are American Values

        President Obama's second intellectual move concerns what the fundamental American values are. In Moral Politics, I described what I found to be the implicit, often unconscious, value systems behind progressive and conservative thought. Progressive thought rests, first, on the value of empathy - putting oneself in other people's shoes, seeing the world through their eyes, and therefore caring about them. The second principle is acting on that care, taking responsibility both for oneself and others, social as well as individual responsibility. The third is acting to make oneself, the country, and the world better - what Obama has called an "ethic of excellence" toward creating "a more perfect union" politically.

        Historian Lynn Hunt, in Inventing Human Rights, has shown that those values, beginning with empathy, lie historically behind the human rights expressed in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.

        Obama, in various interviews and speeches, has provided the logical link. Empathy is not mere sympathy. Putting oneself in the shoes of others brings with it the responsibility to act on that empathy - to be "our brother's keeper and our sister's keeper" - and to act to improve ourselves, our country, and the world.

        The logic is simple: Empathy is why we have the values of freedom, fairness, and equality - for everyone, not just for certain individuals. If we put ourselves in the shoes of others, we will want them to be free and treated fairly. Empathy with all leads to equality: no one should be treated worse than anyone else. Empathy leads us to democracy: to avoid being subject indefinitely to the whims of an oppressive and unfair ruler, we need to be able to choose who governs us and we need a government of laws.

        Obama has consistently maintained that what I, in my writings, have called "progressive" values are fundamental American values. From his perspective, he is not a progressive; he is just an American. That is a crucial intellectual move.

        Those empathy-based moral values are the opposite of the conservative focus on individual responsibility without social responsibility. They make it intolerable to tolerate a president who is The Decider - who gets to decide without caring about or listening to anybody. Empathy-based values are opposed to the pure self-interest of a laissez-faire "free market," which assumes that greed is good and that seeking self-interest will magically maximize everyone's interests.

        They oppose a purely self-interested view of America in foreign policy. Obama's foreign policy is empathy-based, concerned with people as well as states - with poverty, education, disease, water, the rights of women and children, ethnic cleansing, and so on around the world.

        How are such values expressed? Take a look at the inaugural speech. Empathy: "the kindness to take in a stranger when the levees break, the selflessness of workers who would rather cut their hours than see a friend lose their job, the firefighter's courage to storm a stairway filled with smoke, but also a parent's willingness to nurture a child..." Responsibility to ourselves and others: "We have duties to ourselves, the nation, and the world." The ethic of excellence: "there is nothing so satisfying to the spirit, so defining of character, than giving our all to a difficult task." They define our democracy: "This is the meaning of our liberty and our creed."

        The same values apply to foreign policy: "To the people of poor nations, we pledge to work alongside you to make your farms flourish and make clean waters flow; to nourish starved bodies and feed hungry minds." And to religion as well: By quoting language like "our brother's keeper," he is communicating that mere individual responsibility will not get you into Heaven, that social responsibility and making the world better is required.

        3. Biconceptualism and the New Bipartisanship

        The third crucial idea behind the Obama Code is biconceptualism, the knowledge that a great many people who identify themselves ideologically as conservatives, or politically as Republicans or Independents, share those fundamental American values - at least on certain issues. Most "conservatives" are not thoroughgoing movement conservatives, but are what I have called "partial progressives" sharing Obama's American values on many issues.

        Where such folks agree with him on values, Obama tries, and will continue to try, to work with them on those issues if not others. And, he assumes, correctly believe, that the more they come to think in terms of those American values, the less they will think in terms of opposing conservative values.

        Biconceptualism lay behind his invitation to Rick Warren to speak at the inaugural. Warren is a biconceptual, like many younger evangelicals. He shares Obama's views of the environment, poverty, health, and social responsibility, though he is otherwise a conservative. Biconceptualism is behind his "courting" of Republican members of Congress. The idea is not to accept conservative moral views, but to find those issues where individual Republicans already share what he sees as fundamentally American values.

        He has "reached across the aisle" to Richard Lugar on nuclear proliferation, but not on economics.

        Biconceptualism is central to Obama's attempts to achieve unity - a unity based on his understanding of American values. The current economic failure gives him an opening to speak about the economy in terms of those ideals: caring about all, prosperity for all, responsibility for all by all, and good jobs for all who want to work.

        I think Obama is correct about biconceptualism of this sort - at least where the overwhelming proportion of Americans is concerned. When the President spoke at the Lincoln Day dinner recently about sensible Midwestern Republicans, he meant biconceptual Republicans, who are progressive and/or pragmatic on many issues.

        But hardcore movement conservatives tend to be more ideological and less biconceptual than their constituents. In the recent stimulus vote, the hardcore movement conservatives kept party discipline (except for three Senate votes) by threatening to run opposition candidates against anyone who broke ranks. They were able to enforce this because the conservative message machine is strong in their districts and there is no nationwide progressive message machine operating in those districts. The effectiveness of the conservative message machine led to Obama making a rare mistake in communication, the mistake of saying out loud in Florida not to think of Rush Limbaugh, thus violating the first rule of framing and giving Rush Limbaugh even greater power.

        Biconceptual, partly progressive, Republicans do exist in Congress, and the president is not going to give up on them. But as long as the conservative message machine can activate its values virtually unopposed in conservative districts, movement conservatives can continue to pressure biconceptual Republicans and keep them from voting their conscience on many issues. This is why a nationwide progressive message machine needs to be organized if the president is to achieve unity through biconceptualism.

        4. Protection and Empowerment

        The fourth idea behind the Obama Code is the President's understanding of government - "not whether our government is too big or too small, but whether it works." This depends on what "works" means. The word sounds purely pragmatic, but it is moral in operation.

        The idea is that government has twin moral missions: protection and empowerment. Protection includes not just military and police protection, but protections for the environment, consumers, workers, pensioners, disaster victims, and investors.

        Empowerment is what his stimulus package is about: it includes education and other forms of infrastructure - roads, bridges, communications, energy supply, the banking system and stock market. The moral mission of government is simple: no one can earn a living in America or live an American life without protection and empowerment by the government. The stimulus package is basically an empowerment package. Taxes are what you pay for living in America, rather than in Congo or Bangladesh. And the more money you make from government protection and empowerment, the more you owe in return. Progressive taxation is a matter of moral accounting. Tax cuts for the middle class mean that the middle class hasn't been getting as much as it has been contributing to the nation's productivity for many years.

        This view of government meshes with our national ideal of equality. There needs to be moral equality: equal protection and equal empowerment. We all deserve health care protection, retirement protection, worker protection, employment protection, protection of our civil liberties, and investment protection. Protection and empowerment. That's what "works" means - "whether it helps families find jobs at a decent wage, care they can afford, a retirement that is dignified."

        5. Morality and Economics Fit Together

        Crises are times of opportunity. Budgets are moral statements. President Obama has put these ideas together. His economic program is a moral program and conversely. Why the quartet of leading economic issues - education, energy, health, banking? Because they are at the heart of government's moral mission of protection and empowerment, and correspondingly, they are what is needed to act on empathy, social and personal responsibility, and making the future better.

        The economic crisis is also an opportunity. It requires him to spend hundreds of billions of dollars on the right things to do.

        6. Systemic Causation and Systemic Risk

        Conservatives tend to think in terms of direct causation. The overwhelming moral value of individual, not social, responsibility requires that causation be local and direct. For each individual to be entirely responsible for the consequences of his or her actions, those actions must be the direct causes of those consequences. If systemic causation is real, then the most fundamental of conservative moral - and economic - values is fallacious.

        Global ecology and global economics are prime examples of systemic causation. Global warming is fundamentally a system phenomenon. That is why the very idea threatens conservative thinking. And the global economic collapse is also systemic in nature. That is at the heart of the death of the conservative principle of the laissez-faire free market, where individual short-term self-interest was supposed to be natural, moral, and the best for everybody. The reality of systemic causation has left conservatism without any real ideas to address global warming and the global economic crisis.

        With systemic causation goes systemic risk. The old rational actor model taught in economics and political science ignored systemic risk. Risk was seen as local and governed by direct causation, that is, buy short-term individual decisions. The investment banks acted on their own short-term risk, based on short-term assumptions, for example, that housing prices would continue to rise or that bundles of mortgages once secure for the short term would continue to be "secure" and could be traded as "securities."

        The systemic nature of ecological and economic causation and risk have resulted in the twin disasters of global warming and global economic breakdown. Both must be dealt with on a systematic, global, long-term basis. Regulating risk is global and long-term, and so what are required are world-wide institutions that carry out that regulation in systematic way and that monitor causation and risk systemically, not just locally.

        President Obama understands this, though much of the country does not. Part of his challenge will be to formulate policies that carry out these ideas and to communicate these ideas as well as possible to the public.

        7. Contested Concepts and Patriotic Language

        As President, Barack Obama must speak in patriotic language. But all patriot language in this country is "contested." Every major patriotic term has a core meaning that we all understand the same way. But that common core meaning is very limited in its application. Most uses of patriotic language are extended from the core on the basis of either conservative or progressive values to produce meanings that are often opposite from each other.

        I've written a whole book, Whose Freedom?, on the word "freedom" as used by conservatives and progressives. In his second inaugural, George W. Bush used "freedom," "free," and "liberty" over and over - first, with its common meaning, then shifting to its conservative meaning: defending "freedom" as including domestic spying, torture and rendition, denial of habeus corpus, invading a country that posed no threat to us, a "free market" based on greed and short-term profits for the wealthy, denying sex education and access to women's health facilities, denying health care to the poor, and leading to the killing and maiming of innocent civilians in Iraq by the hundreds of thousands, all in the name of "freedom."

        It was anything but a progressive's view of freedom - and anything but the view intended in the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution.

        For forty years, from the late 1960's through 2008, conservatives managed, through their extensive message machine, to reframe much of our political discourse to fit their worldview. President Obama is reclaiming our patriotic language after decades of conservative dominance, to fit what he has correctly seen as the ideals behind the founding of our country.

        "Freedom" will no longer mean what George W. Bush meant by it. Guantanamo will be closed, torture outlawed, the market regulated. Obama's inaugural address was filled with framings of patriotic concepts to fit those ideals. Not just the concept of freedom, but also equality, prosperity, unity, security, interests, challenges, courage, purpose, loyalty, patriotism, virtue, character, and grace. Look at these words in his inaugural address and you will see how Obama has situated their meaning within his view of fundamental American values: empathy, social and well as personal responsibility, improving yourself and your country. We can expect further reclaiming of patriotic language throughout his administration.

        All this is what "change" means. In his policy proposals the President is trying to align his administration's policies with the fundamental values of the Framers of our Constitution. In seeking "bipartisan" support, he is looking beyond political affiliations to those who share those values on particular issues. In his economic policy, he is realigning our economy with the moral missions of government: protection and empowerment for all.

        It's Us, Not Just Him

        The president is the best political communicator of our age. He has the bully pulpit. He gets media attention from the press. His website is running a permanent campaign, Organizing for Obama, run by his campaign manager David Plouffe. It seeks issue-by-issue support from his huge mailing list. There are plenty of progressive blogs. MoveOn.org now has over five million members. And yet that is nowhere near enough.

        The conservative message machine is huge and still going. There are dozens of conservative think tanks, many with very large communications budgets. The conservative leadership institutes are continuing to turn out thousands of trained conservative spokespeople every year.

        The conservative apparatus for language creation is still functioning. Conservative talking points are still going out to their network of spokespeople, who still being booked on TV and radio around the country. About 80% of the talking heads on tv are conservatives. Rush Limbaugh and Fox News are as strong as ever.

        There are now progressive voices on MSNBC, Comedy Central, and Air America, but they are still overwhelmed by Right's enormous megaphone. Republicans in Congress can count on overwhelming message support in their home districts and homes states. That is one reason why they were able to stonewall on the President's stimulus package. They had no serious media competition at home pounding out the Obama vision day after day.

        Such national, day-by-day media competition is necessary. Democrats need to build it. Democratic think tanks are strong on policy and programs, but weak on values and vision. Without the moral arguments based on the Obama values and vision, the policymakers most likely be unable to regularly address both independent voters and the Limbaugh-FoxNews audiences in conservative Republican strongholds.

        The President and his administration cannot build such a communication system, nor can the Democrats in Congress. The DNC does not have the resources. It will be up to supporters of the Obama values, not just supporters on the issues, to put such a system in place. Despite all the organizing strength of Obama supporters, no such organizing effort is now going on. If none is put together, the movement conservatives will face few challenges of fundamental values in their home constituencies and will be able to go on stonewalling with impunity.

        That will make the president's vision that much harder to carry out.

        Summary

        The Obama Code is based on seven deep, insightful, and subtle intellectual moves. What President Obama has been attempting in his speeches is a return to the original frames of the Framers, reconstituting what it means to be an American, to be patriotic, to be a citizen and to share in both the sacrifices and the glories of our country. In seeking "bipartisan" support, he is looking beyond political affiliations to those who share those values on particular issues. In his economic plan, he is attempting to realign our economy with the moral missions of government: protection and empowerment for all.

        The president hasn't fooled the radical ideological conservatives in Congress. They know progressive values when they see them - and they see them in their own colleagues and constituents too often for comfort. The radical conservatives are aware that this economic crisis threatens not only their political support, but the very underpinnings of conservative ideology itself.

        Nonetheless, their brains have not been changed by facts. Movement conservatives are not fading away. They think their conservative values are the real American values. They still have their message machine and they are going to make the most of it. The ratings for Fox News and Rush Limbaugh are rising.

        Without a countervailing communications system on the Democratic side, they can create a lot of trouble, not just for the president, not just for the nation, but on a global scale, for the environmental and economic future of the world.


    Obama Code
    I'm glad I chose to read your post.  I actually got to sign up for Ann Coulter's newsletter at the bottom of your comment. Kinda funny huh, an advertisment for Ann Coulter (Conservative) at the bottom of a liberal rant! Priceless!!
    code word here people

    "gospel"   Her statement must be correct, she used one of the code words.


     


    US Election Code on certification of

    Here are the stipulations under the US Election Code which apply to certification of eligibility for presidential and vice-presidential candidates.  I have omitted language that applies to procedural aspects not affecting the qualification process.  Seems to me the only appropriate place the issue can be addressed after the election would be in Congressional impeachment proceedings.


    http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/txcodes/el.011.00.000192.00.html 


    Election Code


    Chapter 192. Presidential Electors and Candidates


    SubChapter B:  Presidential and Vice-Presidential Candidates


    § 192.033.  Certification of Candidates for Placement on Ballot 


                   (a)  Except as provided by Subsection (c), the secretary


    of state shall certify in writing for placement on the general


    election ballot the names of the candidates for president and


    vice-president who are entitled to have their names placed on the


    ballot.


                   (c)  A candidate's name may not be certified if, before


    delivering the certification, the secretary of state learns that the name is to be omitted from the ballot under Subchapter C.


    SubChapter C:  Withdrawal, Death and Ineligibility of Presidential and Vice-Presidential Candidates


                   § 192.062.  Presidential or Vice-Presidential Party Nominee 


                   (a)  The secretary of state shall certify in writing for placement on the ballot the name of a political party's replacement nominee for president or vice-president of the United States if:


                                   (1)  the original nominee withdraws, dies, or is declared ineligible on or before the 74th day before presidential election day; and .                                                                                         (c)  The name of a nominee who has withdrawn, died, or been declared ineligible shall be omitted from the ballot and the name of the replacement nominee placed on the ballot if a replacement nominee is certified for placement on the ballot as provided by this section.  Otherwise, the withdrawn, deceased, or ineligible


    nominee's name shall be placed on the ballot


    Read: The Da Vinci Code,,,,,,,,nm
    nm
    I had read the DiVinci Code and as sm
    far as I am concerned that book and the movie also with Tom Hanks is right out of the pitts of He!!
    It also stands for National Drug Code but no
    It's the National Democratic Congress, of which I'm sure some of you, or maybe not.....never mind. I've realized dems on this board aren't really interested in really finding out about the real Obama.

    Study up and don't come back here acting as if you can't find anything. If you want, you will. And you'll know it when you see it.

    Connect the dots.
    I couldn't get in...crowd already exceeded the fire code.
    So, after parking two blocks away and trudging to the party, the fire officials kept us out because the fire code only allows 300, of which there were more than that inside. Then the cops told us we couldn't congregate outside either due to traffic and not having a separate (outdoor) permit.

    Not exactly what I'd hoped for since it was a wasted trip for me, but still wonderful.
    As long as a taxpayer complies with the code as it was written
    Taxpayers are not responsible for observing "the intent" of the tax law, but for observing its specific terms.

    It's the obligation of the legislature to make sure that the law is written in such a way that it reflects their intentions. Unfortunately (or in some cases, fortunately), the intentions of the legislature are often so ambiguous, inappropriate or impossible to implement by tax laws that such a hope is doomed from the start.


    Why is it strange? SM

    He received a Christmas card when he was recovering in the VA Hospital.  The card said it hoped he died.  A picture of the car and the article are on the conservative board.  Lots of GIs got spit on coming home during Vietnam.  I don't call that strange. I call it abominable and unforgivable.


    Strange.....
    I for one haven't called anyone socialists, evil, or stupid but it's interesting that's where your mind goes.

    My belief hasn't been forced on anyone but it is my hope that they one day do believe in Jesus Christ if they don't already. I notice those (you) seem to feel very offended for reasons that don't make sense when speaking about God and it's usually because that individual doesn't know God and really has nothing but emptiness inside. That emptiness just comes spews out as hatred, nastiness, loathsomeness. The list goes on and on. How sad.


    Strange...nm
    nm
    Strange though, isn't it, none of this came
    out until after he was able to cast that all necessary 60th vote to pass the stimulus bill! Almost makes you feel like it is illegal, doesn't it? Naw, they wouldn't do that......
    This is really strange! Since when does
    a 1-day- old fetus has anything to say or decide?

    Legally until age of 18, we cannot decide anything.
    Strange, I did not see any of them
    stooping as low as Obama did when he bowed to the Saudi Arabian king.
    Strange coincidence.
    What a coincidence! I don't know how many times I've been trolled on this board both then and now and had the happy little God bless you and have a nice day or have a wonderful weekend tacked onto the end - kind of jarring, and kind of person-specific. But who knows, could just be a strange coinky-dink. Actually, who cares:) We have stuff to discuss.
    Why you talk strange?

    I do not get.


    Me need new insult, yes.


    Strange logic!
    x
    Isn't it strange how you can make fun all you want
    about age, gender, special needs children, teen pregnancy, POW status, being a beauty pageant contestant, someone's accent, religious beliefs, how many homes someone owns, but mention one time that the other candidate is black and you are racist, unkind, politically incorrect and insensitive.
    I find it strange that....(sm)
    you would be so worried about Obama enough to consistently question everything about him on this board, and yet when he says something you don't want to hear it.  Interesting.
    7 Strange Coincidences
    I am NO conspiracy theorist and i am no fan of Obama, but my on/off boyfriend has become a born again Christian due to seraching youtube for "7 Strange Coincidences".

    He just called me near tears saying he wants me to be saved. This is COMPLETELY not like him. He tells me he is now following in the footsteps of Jesus, trying not to sin. etc (which of course is NOT a bad thing to me) but anyways
    I posted in the Faith forum but nobody seems to respond...
    Can someone dispute everything ? I mean I know you can't dispute it when they are coincidences... and I know the Obama supporters will just be like this is pure CRAP and the obama haters will be like HE IS THE ANTICHRIST.

    Is there anything in between that can take an unobstructed view of the situation and give any insight?

    I mean... i dont know how to deal with the BF and his new ways... I believe in God but know I sin.

    UGHHHHHHH why is this happening now!
    Hmmmmmmmmmm, that's strange
    Four of my family members are loan officers and this became a huge issue with them. Strange they knew the govt was forcing these loans down their throats and this was a huge issue with them. They were furious these practices were being put into place. They refused to loan, however, and 2 nearly lost their jobs because they refused to give out subprime loans to those they knew perfectly well could not afford a home. Yes, they were being forced to give these loans.....this didn't come from your little TV programs; this came from the ones caught in the middle of this crap. Too bad they weren't making a mint on this junk.....unfortunately, they were just having to follow the guidelines for loans that were enforced on them by the government.

    DO YOUR RESEARCH!!
    Of course you don't find it strange this
    "suddenly" came about and not even openly I might add. Remember, one poster said she couldn't even find it on the DHS website..... which of course should bother you immensely but I'm sure doesn't. Right before the massive outrage from the American citizens against being taxed to death by protesting and demonstrating through the tea parties, the DHS just happens to come up with this..... and very sneaky at that!

    I have actually read the document and YES, I would object just as harshly if ANYONE, including liberals, were being targeted. Do you not understand why? I am not a republican as those like yourself seem to always think. If someone is against Obama, then they are definitely republican....what a ignorant way to think! We are talking about our 1st amendment rights here!!

    This has nothing to do with what side you take; it's about losing your freedoms!

    Did you not get the part about "conservative" being the main topic of the file? The heading does NOT say anything about terrorism.... it says "conservative extremism".

    There are already laws in place concerning domestic terrorism........... this is an OPEN threat against conservatives. You can either see it for what it really is or keep fooling yourself. The topic of the file speaks for itself, unless you can't read.


    Of course you don't find it strange this
    "suddenly" came about and not even openly I might add. Remember, one poster said she couldn't even find it on the DHS website..... which of course should bother you immensely but I'm sure doesn't. Right before the massive outrage from the American citizens against being taxed to death by protesting and demonstrating through the tea parties, the DHS just happens to come up with this..... and very sneaky at that!

    I have actually read the document and YES, I would object just as harshly if ANYONE, including liberals, were being targeted. Do you not understand why? I am not a republican as those like yourself seem to always think. If someone is against Obama, then they are definitely republican....what a ignorant way to think! We are talking about our 1st amendment rights here!!

    This has nothing to do with what side you take; it's about losing your freedoms!

    Did you not get the part about "conservative" being the main topic of the file? The heading does NOT say anything about terrorism.... it says "conservative extremism".

    There are already laws in place concerning domestic terrorism........... this is an OPEN threat against conservatives. You can either see it for what it really is or keep fooling yourself. The topic of the file speaks for itself, unless you can't read.


    Strange....he's an adult now ......
    He wrote that book as an adult, knowing full well young and old blacks alike will read that book! If you think for one second they didn't understand those racist remarks, think again! That is the reason racism will not go away.... people like him who perpetuate it..

    Believe his lies if you want!
    Strange, they keep telling us in Oregon...

    That it will all come down to us.


    I certainly hope that's true because we hate Hillary AND McCain.


     


    A Canadian thinks someone else is strange.
    lol
    Strange silence now broken.

    First reaction is if these issues, which have been posted on O's website ever since he launched his campaign, are of such sudden concern to the cons and femocons, why did they not get addressed during the RNC?  Do you not see the high-jack strategy as the cons try to talk out of both sides of their mouths and reinvent themselves as the new age liberals?  How is this different than the now exposed folly of the compassionate conservative Bush/Cheney ploy?   


     


    Small business.  Either you can't read, you think that we can't or your spin cycle is stuck in high gear.  Go here:  http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/#small-business.  Plans to give tax relief for small businesses and startups, eliminate capital gains taxes on them and provide a $500 new making work pay tax credit (one of many) for workers.  For all those IC MTs out there, this is aimed at reducing the burden of double taxation in the current structure where small businesses pay both employer AND employee side of payroll tax.  Obama will INVEST $250 million per year in support of entrepreneurship, by creating national network of public-private business incubators to facilitate start-up creation.  Your $250,000/yr figure applied to tax cuts on INDIVIDUALS who earn in excess of that amount.  Therefore, your offshore, job loss, and massive flight to lower income argument does not hold water on this point.  Please cite the right-wing rag you have taken this $6 billion dollar additional tax on small business claim.  I'm not finding that in O's plan.  The tax breaks to the "lower brackets" (losing their homes, can't decide whether to get medicine or food this month, and if they are lucky, can gas their tank once a month) is addressed below.    


     


    On the plight of the struggling rich.  Define rich, please.  From the bottom, INDIVIDUAL incomes in excess of $250,000/yr might look about right.  From the top, $5 million a year maybe (one of McC's not-so-funny jokes, some would wonder).  The 90% of the federal tax bill claim must be a typo.    Go here for 2008 info: http://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2008/04/the_rich_and_their_taxes.html. Our top 1% of filers pay 40% or tax burden.  An accurate argument would include these facts as well.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distribution_of_wealth.  In the United States at the end of 2001, 10% of the population owned 71% of the wealth, and the top 1% controlled 38%. On the other hand, the bottom 40% owned less than 1% of the nation's wealth.  Let's say that one more time.  Top 1% gets 38%, bottom 40% get less than 1%.  Since they are not earning a living wage, probably that is why they cannot afford to pay tax.  Got the picture?


     


    There is only one reason our long suffering corporations are taking their business overseas.  Greed.  They do not want to pay their share and they get tax incentives currently for outsourcing.  Do not take us down the path of needing to address sweat shop working conditions, 7-day work weeks, $2/day wages in developing countries where US labor laws do not apply.  Greed is not a universal American value.    



    There you go again.  Please try to keep this discussion in the context of McCain plans and how they are different than Bush plans.  You are spinning way out in right field without a paddle on that ridiculous statement about keeping people in lower brackets.  What in the world make you think this kind of ignorance is going to help JM/SP win the election. 


    Preying on discontent, fear and division was a blatent and nauseating subtext for the RNC this entire week.  I do agree with inspecting history, and the history that is under the microscope now is Bush/Cheney and JM voting history.  Do you really want to bring up govt "borrowing."  Again, Bush is the record setter in this regard and while we are talkin' W, don't forget the Bush slash and burn policies toward our seniors.  Here's a link for you to a rather exhaustive analysis on 12 reason privatizing social security is a bad idea.  http://www.socsec.org/publications.asp?pubid=503.  You can get back to me on that one with your rebuttal.  My question would be putting WHICH people before WHICH party? 


    Survey Americans on which party they associate election fraud with in the past, say, 30 years or so and tell me what you come up with.  So you forgot to mention what JM's plan is on this one.   Again, just saying no to personal attacks and steering you back on course.  JM's plan for lobbying and earmarks is what exactly.  I see O has one. 


     


    JM hate war?  LMAO.  So what was all that military service orgie this week all about?   The entire McCain family for generations have shown to us just how much they hate war.  Where is his war prevention strategy?  Did I miss the part where he sang Give Peace a Chance?  Sam, really, do you care nothing about your own credibility or that of your candidates?  Am laughing too hard to comment further on this. 


     


    Here's a link for you to serve as a primer on the Patriot Act controversy.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_PATRIOT_Act#Controversy.  Will not address the attempts you are making to minimize the unconstitutional aspect of this legislation.  I would like an explanation as to how RNC protestors engaging in destruction of private property, vandalism, resisting arrest, disturbing the peace and such have suddenly been charged with terrorism?  The we have not been attacked yet defense does not make me feel warm and fuzzy about standing legislation that violates the constitution 9 ways to Sunday.  Far mongering does not a justification make.  O's plan demonstrates ways to tackle terrorism that do not involve trashing the constitution. 



    There are many issues swirling around the separation of church and state.  Christian theocracy will be kept in the marginal fringes where they belong.  Religious principles will not be incorporated into laws that seek to remove a woman's right to control her own body.  Freedom from religion is also at stake here as are hate crime definitions that provide protection for Moslems in the US.  That is the freedom the cons overlook every time. 

    You may not direct me anywhere in history on this subject that would attempt to blur the division between military and diplomatic initiatives.  Hello.  These are mutually exclusive concepts and one is designed to prevent the other.  Got it?  Where is JMs diplomacy?  In the past 16 years, which party has demonstrated the ability to balance the budget and create surplus.  Hey sambo, who turned a $559 billion surplus into a $400 billion deficit in just 8 years?  Looks like there already has been a trillion-dollar screw-up that the next administration will be having to clean up.  Wonder which party has the most credibility on this one?  

    Your prescription for poverty sounds like it was lifted straight out of O's plan.  Read it before you try to claim it for the party who would ridicule it.  My post ends here because the remainder of yours is recycled communist/socialist innuendo that has nothing whatsoever to do with the subject at hand.  And the top of the evening to you too, dear. 

    wrong link, very strange (sm)

    The link to this video is somehow automatically rerouted to a different one so every time I cut and paste it, it goes to the other video. 


    If you search for "I invented the Internet Obama" that is the correct video that I was trying to share.


    I for one find it strange you lumped all those into
    nm
    Strange, the conclusions you jump to about
    I don't see a child who is born into this world as a tumor........sorry you do. Says tons about your mindset!

    Why would you want to throw all the immigrants out? If they are here legally, they have every right here. "Illegals" are another thing.

    BTW, this woman had a free clinic where she could obtain an abortion for FREE.....stop finding excuses for everyone.
    So - be it sadomasochism, bondage, strange
    as long as it's between a man and a woman. What about 3-ways? Or wife-swapping? Or polygamy. All normal?

    What about domestic violence? Is that only 'real' if it's between a man and a woman as well?
    This poster periodically goes on strange
    republican rants with 'facts' pulled either from thin air or Fox News.... The majority of it is completely false, so I usually don't even bother to read it.
    Strange.....why are you so offended by that comment?
    --
    Strange, only ONE person griping.....where were
    --
    Strange, they said they were treated wonderfully....
    nm
    Your strange idea of "research" amounts to cut
    What you really mean is that you agree with her - which is fine as long as you're honest about it. But please don't try to shore up your support by suggesting that her posts have some sort of superior quality to others, because they don't.

    Would you care for a summary of JTBB's posts? I think you'll be hard-pressed to show why they don't suffer from the very characteristics that you denounce in others.

    Bottom line: Get real, dude.
    Very strange debate, no control whatsoever by the moderator...sm
    Almost like alternating republican and democratic commercials. Some very petty snide comments. Neither one of them impressed me, but I blame that on the moderator.
    P.S. Please scroll down after reading above post. Washington Post article included.

    Reprinted in Boston Globe.  Sorry!


    I wrote: I second JTBB's post, 'watcher's post is misinformed crap...sm
    pYou have also to read what's posted 'inside' the message.
    Oops, meant to post this under the loose trolls post...
    I'm going to keep ignoring these troll posts.  It's kind of fun, actually, just pretend you don't see them.
    Post the direct link. I don't see the post you're referring to.
    t
    The post I quoted was the entire post. It was not taken out of context. sm
    I imagine there are as many emotions and thoughts going on with our troops as possible and each does not feel the same as the other, which is obvious by the posts here. 
    Sorry gourdpainter, my other post should have been under the wacky Pakistan post (nm)
    xx
    Why did you post this? Republicans have been asked NOT to post here..Bye Bye.
    Why did you post this?  Happy Thanksgiving is enough but to be so happy we have a republican president?  Why did you post that?  I would like to remind you, you are on the liberal board.  Are you trying to start trouble?  If so, let me know and I will report you immediately.  No, Im not happy we have a republican president, a warmonger chickenhawk president.  Does that answer your question?  Now, go back to the republican board.  We dont want you here and actually the moderator and administrator have asked republicans not to post here..Bye..bye..
    Forgot to post a link in 1st post. Sorry.
    http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/money/tax/article1996735.ece
    Please refer me to any post where I referred to either the post...
    or the poster as ignorant. And I certainly never sunk to the levels you did at the top of the post, against a man who is ill in a wheelchair. Pot calling the kettle black...?