wilson versus rove

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they keep the pressure on, because IF our govt has behaved irresponsibly we need to know.

Bakersfield is a very conservative oil town. 

John Harte / The Californian Former U.S. Ambassador Joseph Wilson speaks to an overflow crowd at CSUB Thursday night.

Critic of Bush earns support

Packed house at CSUB hears ex-envoy who disputed Iraqi war data

By CHRISTINA SOSA, Californian staff writer
e-mail: csosa@bakersfield.com

Posted: Thursday October 20th, 2005, 11:45 PM
Last Updated: Friday October 21st, 2005, 7:52 AM

The audience overflowed the overflow room at Cal State Bakersfield's Doré Theatre on Thursday night and people had to settle for standing in the hall to hear former U.S. ambassador to Iraq Joseph Wilson speak.

Starlene Parson was one of more than 600 people who attended the free event, which was part of the Kegley Institute of Ethics' lecture series.

It was interesting that the audience was supportive of him, Parson said.

Even Wilson thought his visit to such a conservative town might be more problematic than the welcome reception he received.

I figured that if I was going to get a pie in the face, this would be the town, Wilson joked.

After a career of working with Republican Presidents Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush, Wilson wrote an op-ed piece in The New York Times in July 2003 disputing information current President Bush used to justify a war in Iraq.

I had a civic duty, and that civic duty was to call my government to account for what my government had said and done, Wilson said Thursday.

Days after Wilson's article, columnist Robert Novak revealed that Wilson's wife, Valerie Plame, was a CIA agent. The revelation prompted a nearly two-year federal grand jury investigation because Plame's role with the CIA was classified, and it may have been illegal to disclose it.

He called ruining his wife's cover a tawdry, cheap, dirty political trick.

Wilson's speech delved into the details of his work during the first Iraq war in the early 1990s, his investigation in Niger and his personal fight with the Bush administration after he came forward.

Wilson also stressed that while he may find himself more a friend to the left than the right these days, he has never seen national security as a partisan issue.

The real implications in all this are to our country and our status and stature in the world, Wilson said. It is our national status that is at play here, not our partisan status.

Attendee Harriet Morris was struck by how calmly Wilson presented his information and point of view.

What I liked about him is he was kind of low-key. There wasn't any anger, Morris said. There wasn't any angry rhetoric. He just kind of told the story, and the story is scary.

Before opening the floor to questions, Wilson ended his prepared speech with a call for vigilance from all Americans.

If you lay back ... and you allow others to make your decisions for you, then the chances are pretty good that you will find you have lost your republic, Wilson said.

At the time, officials told said that Plame's outing resulted in *severe* damage to her team and *significantly hampered the CIA's ability to monitor nuclear proliferation.*  I guess personal kindergarten style paybacks are more important to Bush.  Just remember Bush's role in all this when he declares yet another war on Iran.

Bush Told Prosecutors He Directed Cheney to Discredit Joe Wilson

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/

George W. Bush, 9/30/2003:

I know of nobody -- I don't know of anybody in my administration who leaked classified information. If somebody did leak classified information, I'd like to know it, and we'll take the appropriate action. And this investigation is a good thing.

And again I repeat, you know, Washington is a town where there's all kinds of allegations. You've heard much of the allegations. And if people have got solid information, please come forward with it. And that would be people inside the information who are the so-called anonymous sources, or people outside the information -- outside the administration. And we can clarify this thing very quickly if people who have got solid evidence would come forward and speak out. And I would hope they would.

And then we'll get to the bottom of this and move on. But I want to tell you something -- leaks of classified information are a bad thing. And we've had them -- there's too much leaking in Washington. That's just the way it is. And we've had leaks out of the administrative branch, had leaks out of the legislative branch, and out of the executive branch and the legislative branch, and I've spoken out consistently against them and I want to know who the leakers are.

12/13/2005

Newspaper columnist Robert Novak is still not naming his source in the Valerie Plame affair, but he says he is pretty sure the name is no mystery to President Bush.

I'm confident the president knows who the source is, Novak told a luncheon audience at the John Locke Foundation in Raleigh on Tuesday. I'd be amazed if he doesn't.

So I say, 'Don't bug me. Don't bug Bob Woodward. Bug the president as to whether he should reveal who the source is.'

07/03/2006

Reports: Plame Was Monitoring Iran Nukes When Outed
By E&P Staff
Published: May 02, 2006 10:55 AM ET

NEW YORK What was Valerie Plame working on at the CIA when she was outed by administration officials and columnist Robert Novak? MSNBC's David Schuster on Monday said he had confirmed an earlier report that she was helping to keep track of Iran's nuclear activity--not a front and center issue for the White House.

Earlier this year, Larisa Alexandrovna of the Web site RawStory.com, reported that Plame, whose covert status was compromised in the leak, was monitoring weapons proliferation in Iran. At the time, officials told her that Plame's outing resulted in severe damage to her team and significantly hampered the CIA's ability to monitor nuclear proliferation.

On last night's Hardball, MSNBC correspondent Shuster reported that intelligence sources told him thatr Wilson was part of an operation three years ago tracking the proliferation of nuclear weapons material into Iran. And the sources asserted, he said, that when here Wilson's cover was blown, the administration's ability to track Iran's nuclear ambitions was damaged as well.

http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1002426164

Notice how many of the really mean posts, like the one who called Senator Obama, Osambo, are pro-McCain/Palin.  John McCain and Sarah Palin never focus on the issues.  Listen to them closely - what exactly are they going to do about unemployment, foreclosures, poverty, the meth epidemic across the nation, health care, taxes, and the war that has been going on far too long?  Can you answer these questions?  All John McCain does is talk about Obama.  John McCain is losing the election and running scared, so he attacks Obama.  Check out the facts.  Obama was 8 years old when Bill Ayers was a radical.  Ayers is in his 60s and a washed-up radical.  Have you even looked at a picture of this man?  It will make you laugh when you realize this is the guy McCain is associating Obama with in hopes that McCain can win the election.  It is one attack after another.  Senator Obama was raised in Kansas by his "white" grandmother.  Senator Obama has two young children whom he takes to soccer practice regularly.  McCain is making Obama sound like some kind of terrorist.  How many terrorists take their kids to soccer practice?  Do you think Senator Obama would jeporadize his children's lives by being a terrorist?  His kids look pretty well-adjusted to me.

I live in Arizona where McCain is our senator.  Arizona also has a huge meth epidemic, high percentage of poverty, horrible health care, and racism to say the least. Even Arizona's State Governor, Janet Napolitano, is endorsing Senator Obama.  She has had to work side-by-side with John McCain and she isn't even endorsing him.  Do you think the Governor of Arizona would endorse Senator Obama if he was the terrorist that the McCain/Palin ticket is trying to make him out to be.  Even a 1st grader could see that McCain is bitter because he is losing.

You have to be really gullible to believe anything the McCain/Palin ticket has to say.  Honestly ask yourself what you think John Mcain is going to do for this country in the next four years if he can't even help his own state of Arizona.

So, Karl Rove is the one who outed Ms. Wilson.  He should be put in prison for years or better yet, let the people have him, let us tar and feather him..Definitely he needs to be brought up on charges.

Some of these people could actually witness Rove with a gun in his hand SHOOTING this lady and still defend his actions.  Their president can do no wrong, and whatever you do, do NOT confuse them with FACTS.  They are a scary bunch.

    Sunday 28 August 2005

Negative attacks have often been at the center of Karl Rove’s strategies. (Photo: Reuters)

    After all, Plame's identity was revealed in a Robert Novak column on July 14, 2003, just eight days after her husband, Joseph Wilson, had embarrassed Bush over his Iraq war rationale. And Rove had talked with Novak on July 9.

    As John Roberts, the Supreme Court nominee and federal appeals court judge, wrote last month in another context, the fact that sometimes dogs do eat homework is no reason to ignore more-logical explanations.

    Rove's record has been consistent. Over 35 years, he has been a master of dirty tricks, divisiveness, innuendo, manipulation, character assassination, and roiling partisanship.

    He started early. In 1970, when he was 19 and active as a college Republican -- though he didn't graduate from college -- Rove pretended to volunteer for a Democratic candidate in Illinois, stole some campaign stationery, and used it to disrupt a campaign event. Later, in Texas, he gave testimony in court that was embarrassing to an opponent of one of Rove's clients, even though it was not true, according to the book Bush's Brain, by two veteran Texas newsmen, James Moore and Wayne Slater.

    Negative attacks have often been the center of Rove's strategies. In a race between Texas Governor Mark White and his Republican opponent, Bill Clements, Rove wrote in a memo: Anti-White messages are more important than positive Clements messages.

    Often Rove has skated on the edge of being identified with certainty as the author of dirty tricks. In 1986, the discovery of a planted listening device in Rove's own office was widely publicized, damaging the Democrats. Many suspect that the source was Rove himself. This was never proven, but Moore and Slater say, Karl Rove remains a prime suspect. In 1989, Texas populist Jim Hightower was damaged by grand jury leaks for which, Moore and Slater say, Rove remains the most likely source.

    Again, most of the personal slurs against candidates who had the temerity to run against Rove's clients have not been pinned on Rove personally, but they follow a pattern. George W. Bush ousted Ann Richards from the Texas governor's office in 1994 after a whisper campaign focused on a small number of Richards appointees who were lesbians and even suggested that Richards was gay. Bush himself stoked the fire, saying some Richards appointees had agendas that may have been personal in nature.

    In 1990, Hightower's integrity was smeared. A federal investigation of his expenses produced news stories, but no charge, despite Rove's telling Washington reporters that Hightower and several aides face the possibility of indictment.

    In South Carolina in 2000, rumors circulated that John McCain was gay, had a black child, had a Vietnamese child, and got special treatment while a POW in Vietnam. In 2004, a direct link was established between the Bush campaign -- of which Rove was the architect, in Bush's words -- and the libels against John Kerry from the swift boat veterans. With such a history, is it possible that Rove encouraged the Catholic bishops who questioned Kerry's fitness to take Communion?

    Earlier this year, he none-too-subtly bestrode the church-state amalgam that helped elect Bush, telling a sympathetic and enthusiastic audience in Washington that conservatism is the dominant political creed in America. Always on the attack, Rove said just this June that liberals want to prepare indictments and offer therapy to terrorists.

    According to Moore and Slater, the strategy of attack has been constant throughout his career. Rove didn't just want to win; he wanted the opponents destroyed.

    Rove's connection to the Valerie Plame story was the center of attention in mid-July but cooled fast after Bush nominated Roberts to the Supreme Court on July 19. A LexisNexis search reveals 1,944 stories mentioning Rove in the week prior to the nomination, dropping to 1,111 during the week after. Now, with Bush in Crawford for a prolonged vacation, the story has nearly disappeared -- only 169 references in a late-August week.

    Still, more is likely to come out after Labor Day. A special prosecutor, Patrick Fitzgerald, is expected to finish his two-year investigation this fall. His goal was to find the person who leaked Plame's identity as an undercover CIA agent -- a serious offense in the view of Bush's father. He and many other commentators have deplored the idea that the leaker may have been seeking political retribution at the expense of national security.

    So attention will inevitably turn back again to Karl Rove, who did talk with Novak and other reporters who wrote the story but who is now being portrayed by some as a neutral researcher in the Valerie Plame case. Yes, and sometimes dogs do eat homework.

So if someone called me a big, fat, smelly, ugly, loud-mouthed, foul hag that could qualify as an observation (in your words) and would therefore be acceptable?  I mean, technically someone could say they OBSERVED these traits in me.  When does something cross the line and become a personal attack?

My take on all this is that if it originates from one of the C-posters it's an observation.  If it originates from an L-poster it's an attack.  Not always, but in general.  Could be due to the whole political board system have a very very far right-leaning slant........

to change the downward course of the nation.  Haven't you been listening?

Since sales tax was brought up below, let's take a little poll..........

Do you believe that a federal sales tax to replace the current income tax system would be a good move?  Do you think it would be more fair or less fair and why?

I'll post my opinion separate from this.

Stimulus means SPENDING

Non-refundable tax rebates means every $1.00 spent creates $1.02 in economic activity. 2 freaking cents (makes sense to the pubs.....I guess)

Infrastructure - every dollar spent equals $1.59 in economic activity (bridges, roads, etc.)

Food stamps (which the pubs want to cut out of the bill) - every dollar spent equals $1.73 in economic activity. This is the single most productive stimulus we have. Food stamps will get SPENT, unlike tax rebates.

If the pubs have their way, the bill will be 42% tax cuts which will not benefit job creation or improve the economy. They want to fail. Why? And you all call your senators to support this? If it gets pushed through like this, you have only yourselves to blame when everything goes to helll. You can't blame Obama for this cluster.

From the Christian Science monitor online-- an interesting commentary on the Rove issue. 

(I note per the Conservative board that Mr. Wilson is now being vilified.)

 Am worried about Roe v Wade, but not about Rove. He is not worry-worthy - way too much effort. I AM concerned that nothing will happen to any of them that are involved in Plamegate unless it is some third-string low-on-the-totem-pole flunkie who will be completely blindsided when he gets blamed/fired/arrested. This shadow administration is far more evolved than the Nixon guys. I predict nothing will happen to them but what is worse, we have been lied to so often for the last 4+ years that most of us  won't even care. They are going to do what they are going to do...the end.  Here in Florida we voted last election for smaller class sizes and not to build a bullet-train between Tampa and Orlando. Jeb just changed both of those things. We are building the train set up and class sizes stay the same. I wonder why we vote on these amendments at all. What difference does it make? And so it is with D.C. It has not mattered for so long what a great number of us have felt about Iraq and all the lies surrounding it. They just do what they want. And before anyone says "we elected him" as a plausible argument, 51% is not a mandate. One half of this country is on the other side. Our country does not deserve the autocratic theocratic government that has been forced upon us.  When the shoe is inevitably on the other foot I suspect you won't like it either.

Attack your opponents strong points.  Read many posts below that ham-handedly attempt to use this tactic.  Throw in a cup of "sour grapes" and NOW your cookin'.  Go Ron Paul!  Split the vote!

for those too busy posting inaccurate opinions to look things up.

working furiously with a ventiloquist as late as yesterday afternoon.

Article from Juan Gonzalez, a NY Daily News columnist, RE:  Hugo Chavez and his oil versus American oil companies:

from own party who make their living promoting the repub cause.  Big difference in motivation.

WASHINGTON - The White House is suddenly facing damaging evidence that it misled the public by insisting for two years that presidential adviser Karl Rove wasn't involved in leaking the identity of a female CIA officer. President Bush, at an Oval Office photo opportunity Tuesday, was asked directly whether he would fire Rove -- in keeping with a pledge in June, 2004, to dismiss any leakers in the case. The president did not respond. For the second day, White House press secretary Scott McClellan refused to answer questions about Rove.

_______________

This article says that the White House may have misled the public.  And, they apparently pledged to fire anyone who had leaked this information.  This has become interesting, hope it doesn't fade right away from the public view.

difference, and both words represent betrayal by government in one form or another. 

Women who believe in choice will see their rights digress and witness history go backwards.  CIA agents have already seen that they can't trust their government in a time of war.

Actually, Karl Rove has a very important job.  Because of him and the heat the administration has been taking because of his actions, Bush was forced to actually do his job and nominate a replacement for Justice O'Connor.  Very, very "hard work" before he spends the entire month of August in Crawford.

I think soon, though, y'all will see it didn't work.  Rove can't escape the heat that easily.  I believe you will find that Bush failed in getting the heat taken off of Rove, and he had to rush to do all that "hard work" for no reason at all!

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