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Best post of the thread, Kaydie. nm

Posted By: holycrap on 2008-09-22
In Reply to: The Founding Fathers were not Christians and the country was not founded on Christianity - Kaydie




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Your 1st post in this thread had NOTHING to do
pardon me for being a bit puzzled about why you brought it up.
Thanks, kaydie. Good post. nm
nm
okay - Kaydie - I bite - what was your post?
I am white - but I have a black husband, 4 biracial stepchildren, 2 biracial grandchildren, 2 black brother-in-laws, and 4 biracial nieces and nephews. So I am definitely not racist, but sometimes I say things that get taken that way.

I am an Obama supporter at this point, but it is most definitely not because he is a black man. I was really sitting on the fence to be honest until McCain picked Palin - and I am sorry, but I just cannot see her in charge of this country and anything good coming out of that...
Read the post your thread appears under.
Do I have to do all the work here? We are talking about more that one thing at the same time. Can you handle that?
Kaydie, your post is awesome and 100% the way that I feel s/m
about the whole thing as well. We are all entitled to our opinions, but let's remember that behind these screen names sits a real person with people who love them. Every one of us has value and something to add to this world. EVEN McCain and Palin are valuable citizens and have something to contribute, even if not from the White House. Obama, although I personally do not agree with his policies in general, will probably be good for our country in many ways. I am giving him a chance in my heart because I know that we all have to stick together. I wish him well and hope that we are a better country because of him, eventually...

Have a good day, MTs!!
read the whoooole thread, then post something intelligent...nm
nm
I agree, Kaydie. Great post!!! Thank you for serving
the USA.  My family and I appreciate you!
Every thread of yours
0
New thread above.
nm
And, that has what exactly to do with this thread?? SM
BTW it's Western KY University. There is no Southern KY University.
The thread was that someone said he never...
talked about religion. I pointed out that he DOES.
actually this thread is about...
whether the members of military support the effort or not. you turned into something about info available when you claimed that you have more info and a more clear picture than they do and that they are "just following orders" And you are the one who didn't agree with the sentiment of the original post and started the "i don't like people who disagree with me," not dnh, when you started saying you had a clearer picture than they. You are simply out to argue and stir the pot. Not worth the effort to debate with you.
kaydie
believe me, I feel the same way. word is, they want her out of NY, too. They are sorry they voted for her. I just don't see her stepping down from the race gracefully. I figure they have to offer her something really big and I don't see her as obama's vp, unless he is hiring a food taster. I can't believe any medical personnel would vote for her after she said nurses were highly overpaid and underworked - I have seen those girls so tired they can't make it home without pulling over to snooze. AND she just said a couple of months ago that we had already made inroads on health care costs by outsourcing med. tx's and in the same speech promised to bring jobs back to the USA, go figure.
Thank you Kaydie. (sm)
Great post. Very intelligent and well written.
Hi Kaydie
Thanks for your reply and for giving me your viewpoint.

As for voting, I've felt the same way that you do... no one cares what little old me thinks about the next president, but they'll let me vote so I think I have a say so. But I've decided that I need to participate "just in case".

On the religion side, I think that is where so much of the hatred towards Christians lie, in the "intolerance". You see we are taught that Christ IS the only way to heaven and to God, and other religions ARE wrong. If we didn't believe that 100%, we would not really be Christians, because the Bible teaches us that (my preacher is very good about not straying from the bible or misusing verses, and has said time and time again that if he does he expects to be immediately corrected). The Bible is the unerring word of God, written by man, but inspired by Him.

The problem is, you can't just walk up to a Muslim or Jew or anyone else and say "hey, your religion is wrong, because this is what mine says!" because they can immediately say the same thing to you, and if that is your only argument then your going to argue in circles with them.

That's why I believe it is so important to study other religions. Not to believe in them, but to be able to have an intelligent debate with them.

A big thing I notice is that people now a days believe that "to tolerate" means to also believe in. Like because I'm Christian I should believe that Christ is the way to heaven, but so is being a Muslim, Jew, etc. But that contradicts us horribly. To tolerate, according to Webster's, is to "to allow the existence, presence, practice, or act of without prohibition or hindrance; permit. " Basically, to respect others religions. I respect Muslims, Buddhists, Catholics, Jews, and their views. But I respectfully disagree with them. If one of them wanted to talk with me, I wouldn't just shove my fingers in my ears and say "la LA la la la i'm right your wrong" but I would talk with them and since I believe that Christ is the only way to heaven, I would give them my viewpoints and my reasons for believing this, and maybe they would accept. Maybe not. That's all we can do as Christians, state our case. It's between God and that person to do the rest.

So basically I think that's why people feel that Christians are intolerant. I know a lot of us don't want to even accept other religions as being in existence, but they are, and we have to learn to be respectful in presenting the Gospel to those of other religions.

If you want a good study check out Josh McDowell's "A verdict that demands a truth". It's not a book to sit down and read with a cup of coffee, it's more like a text book. But it picks into every corner of the "why?" of Christianity. It is really worth it to read!


Thank you so much, Kaydie -
I could already tell so much of a difference in my "boy" - in fact, I think he was gone and I got a "man".

He enlisted in the reserves, decided to go active, but they sent him on to basic and said for him to finish the paperwork when he comes out of AIT so he could go active, but now he has decided to just stay in the reserves and go to college with an ROTC program so he can leave the reserves and enlist as an officer - hopefully, he can be all he wants to be!
Also, Kaydie -
Katterbach/Ansbach is where I lived when I was there. I also lived in Bamberg for about 6 months. My uncle lived in Ansbach and I lived with him for awhile and then moved to Bamberg to live with my husband.
And Kaydie, what exactly does that mean?
??
Kaydie

Gosh, till bashing Obama.


In your posts, you have commented on Obama's race, you have commented that he plays the race card which he never has, and you connected his name to Adolf Hitler, all things a racist would do.  It just dawned on me that you are a racist.  If Caspar the Friendly Ghost were running for President, you would vote for him  because he is white.


You commented that you hate McCain but you don't know who to vote for.  That is because the alternative to McCain would be voting for a black man who would be in the White House!


If you look at Obama through non-racist vision, you might see more clearly.


 


Kaydie -
Off the subject of politics, but wanted to tell you something about stereotyping.

I am a 39 year old white woman and am in college. I was in the bookstore talking to the manager and clerk one day during a break, just hanging out, and the subject got on the men in our life. Well, my boyfriend is black. When that fact came out in the conversation, both of their jaws dropped and almost simultaneously they stated that they never would have guessed that because I did not "look like I would date a black man". They went on to talk about how professional I look, how I speak as a professional, and present myself as professional.

you go kaydie -
x
You know what Kaydie?
You are a perfect example of McCain/Palin strategy.  Scare, scare, scare.  Your constant harping "till the cows come home" gets really old.  How about "Joe the Plumber/"  Do you REALLY think he wasn't a plant by the McCain group?  Know what my husband said?  "He looks like a dam*ed skin head."  hmmmmm  My husband is also a Viet Nam vet and he will not vote for McCain.  If you think I'm opinionated you ought to get him going.  LOL
you go, Kaydie.
Strength of conviction, that is what I see and what this great country was built up. You keep on posting what you believe in. Not everyone here has their eyes closed to what is going on. Thank you for posting with dignity and not constantly insulting and name calling like so many others here do.
for Kaydie
Your unselfishness by serving the best country in the WORLD is literally beyond admirable. Whenever I see one who served our country, their uniform, cap (I hope I said that right), I become very emotional. In fact, I wanted to work at the Army &/or Marines office nearby, rather than this job. Since I didn't serve, I was unable (as I interpreted it).

I salute you, Kaydie, the same as I do John McCain and all the rest!

It makes me furious when your votes mysteriously "disappear," etc. It's despicable! What does that say aboout the opposing party? There's no denying it!

THANK YOU, Kaydie! You're a true patriot!
Don't go, Kaydie....sm
I know you haven't always been treated kindly on this board, but as an American, you still have the liberty to voice your opinion, whether a single person agrees or not. I have always found your posts insightful and interesting. Stay with us!
You can say that again, Kaydie.....sm
I, for one, need to get back to work. We have to quit making this such an interesting place to be! HAHAHA
THANKS, KAYDIE...nm
nm
Kaydie......... sm
Good to see you.  I always enjoy reading your opinions, even though we don't always agree on things.  Life would be so boring if we did agree on things, don't you think? 

As I have in the past with others, I will have to disagree with your stance that abortion should be allowed.  I am not discounting all that you have said here in regards to children who are brought into this world unwanted by their birth mother, and to me that is a tragedy in and of itself.  I also am not discounting the sorrow with which some women must bear a child in circumstances that are not favorable.  However,  tthere are alternatives to abortion.  I still believe and always will believe that taking a baby's life under any circumstance is the right thing to do.  God alone is the giver of life and God alone is the taker of life.  The child that is aborted could be the child that will discover the cure for cancer or AIDS or some other dread medical disease.  He or she may be the peacemaker this country/world needs.  He or she may just be an average citizen with no world impact, but he or she has the right to live their life, just as you and I do. 

Much is said about when life begins and there are varying opinions as to when that moment is.  Mine is that life begins at conception and that God knows us even before that point, so taking a baby's life is wrong.  Why, if it were not wrong, is a murderer who kills a pregnant woman charged with 2  counts of murder?  Why, if it were not wrong, do some women feel such guilt at having aborted their child, even if they felt at the time that it was the "right thing to do"?  Why, if it were not wrong, did God create pregnancy in such a manner that it is practically undetectable, except for a chemical pregnancy test, until the point at which the heart and nervous system begin to develop at around 5 to 6 weeks? 

Abortion has been around for ages and likely will not go away just because of a few words written on a message board or even by legislation declaring it illegal, but if I can challenge even 1 person to critically examine the facts and not just the emotional ramifications behind abortion, then it is worth my time in stating my opinion.  I have enclosed a link to a web site which shows in great detail the development of a baby from conception until the point of birth.  I hope that you will look at it and understand that life does begin at conception and not at some arbitrary point between conception and birth. 

There is an alternative to abortion. 



for Kaydie....s/m
I share your opinion.
Kaydie

I can totally relate to DH story.


I grew up with a very abusive father.  He wasn't an alcoholic, but I would get beaten with many things besides a belt (2x4s, choker chain, shovel, bench, just to name a few).  I was a straight A high honor roll student.  I never got into trouble in school.  I have never done any drugs.  I didn't really have a social life because I would be put to work around our business and I mean lots of physical labor etc.  He would tell me I was a retard and stupid all of the time.  ALL of the time.  He would never go to any of my stuff, including my high school graduation.  There are stories I could tell you but I would rather not.  I know what it's like to grow up like that.  I would never wish that upon ANYBODY.  I wanted to die and I felt like a slave until I was able to take control of my own life after high school.


I also want to share with you that I am the poster of the "What embryos and fetuses are for" because through all of the crap and hatefulness I have had to deal with in my life, I knew there was more to life than pain.  I knew I was here for a reason.  Now as an adult, I have a beautiful family whom I love very, very much.  I take it from your post you think everything was rosy for me with wanting that experience for my children.  I know what reality is.  I think I turned out okay and I have a great husband and children.  LIfe is what you make it.  Unfortunately, there will always be someone hurting children and that is a terrible thing.  But I truly feel life is precious and something to be cherished.  With adversity comes empathy.  Just my opinion, of course.   


Kaydie?

O


And no actually, if you follow the thread SM
I was posting to American Woman.
I read this whole thread here. sm
MT was very careful to say it was not word for word. Gosh, all the calling people liars.  It's terrible.  She said it wasn't word for word more than once.  How about recalled incorrectly?  Liar is a horrible word and I have been called it so many times on these boards for no good reason.  Anyway, as I said, I am mixed race and I am not offended.  That's all I am going to say because there is no use posting here.  Flame away gt.  Call me a liar yet again.  I really don't care and as Republican said, you don't scare me.  I think you are sad and pathetic and I think your life must be very empty to be as hate filled as you are. 
This whole thread is stupid!

MT did not say she was going back to Iraq...she was answering a poll!!!!  Where's the lie?


The subject in this thread is a cat.
How did we get to this?  And is it really necessary to call names?  I mean, we are civilized people after all. It's rather hard to understand why you attack someone even when they are AGREEING with you.  I try to be respectful here, but it's very hard to communicate when the subject is changed constantly in a thread.  Perhaps an I hate Bush and all conservative thread would be best started and all posts to that effect might go there.  Nothing is being furthered here except what seems to be a very bad grudge.  In a public forum.  Really not cool. 
Dead thread.
nm
The only bash under this thread is
Just can't resist slamming a different perspective, can you? Not even one time is this possible.
awww, don't want to go there so this thread
has ended?  "Case closed" I guess.
Have you not read this thread?

Simply stating Christian beliefs.  This country, although based on religious freedoms, was founded by Christians.  In God We Trust ring a bell?


I'm sorry, it's not me. Wrong thread?
???
let this thread die. The stupidity
of it speaks louder than any response trying to explain things because they don't "understand"   They want to keep the subject off the issues. 
Sorry, got tripped up in the thread... the ol'

Evidently you are not following your own thread
The rational people are the Obama folks who will not engage in the foolishness of the conspiracy theory to nowhere and the brick wall...well, that would be you, "Everyone should be interested!"
I might have missed that thread but I...
didn't miss the thread of negativity in your posts.
If you are not able to follow my thread,
at least try to follow your own. I was replying to your right-from-wrong post where, in an attempt to avoid the points I had made about Israel, you stated I had listed all of Palestinian atrocities. My reply followed consecutive order.

The first item on the list you were trying to attribute to them began with occupation. Since you made the blanket, all-encompassing statement that I had just listed ALL of their atrocities, I began my reply with occupation and followed point-by-point with responses to the other listed items. You would probably have a vague understanding of that if you actually engaged in debating substance rather than simple vollies of empty, vacuous put-downs and denials.
He sure does have a relevance to this thread
Because your comment was same sex people can't ever have sexual intercourse. The relevance is that Bill Clinton came out on national TV and told the world "I did not have sexual intercourse with that woman...Ms. Lewinski?" Both are bold face lies.

Two woman are perfectly capable of having a sexual relationship as are two men. And that is why we have sperm donors and other means to allow woman the capability of having a child without having sex with a man. Maybe if you got out of the "puritan" mind set you might just even have a little fun. But somehow I doubt that. Reminds me of my aunt telling me that sex is only for pro-creation. Once you don't want to have kids anymore then you shouldn't be having sex anymore. Is this you aunty???????
Maybe you could begin in another thread.

Day of Prayer and the absolute vicious lies about Obama's faith.


Just because you believe he lied about other things does not automatically make him a Muslim.


Patty, just get off this particular thread.

It is very obvious that you are a minority here and you're just trying to stir the pot, as you always do.  Nobody wants to hear your bigoted idiotic statements about something you know nothing about, so just keep handling your snakes and leave everybody else's sex life alone.  It is none of your business!!


Thanks for being honest, Kaydie. :)
It is fine to support whoever you want to support, and it is fine to change your mind about who you support. It should be who YOU want and feel will do the best for the country, whoever that is. And to have the guts to say so. Good for you, Kaydie!

I just got back from Gettysburg, and read the words "so that government of the PEOPLE, by the PEOPLE, and for the PEOPLE shall not perish from this earth." It does not say government of the PARTY, by the PARTY, and for the PARTY, shall not perish from this earth. It is about us, as individuals, and I wish every individual this election cycle would vote their individual conscience, what they really feel is right for the country, not what the DNC or RNC tells them they should.

THAT is what I like about Sarah Palin. She has bucked her party, she has faced down good ol' boy politics in her own party and cleaned them out...and most of all...she says that elected officials should serve with a servant's heart. GOOD FOR HER!! What a breath of FRESH AIR and how much further could you get from Washington politics as usual than that?? GO MCCAIN-PALIN!!
Please see inside Kaydie....
The founding fathers were Christians...

Early Years
The First Charter of Virginia (granted by King James I, on April 10, 1606)
• We, greatly commending, and graciously accepting of, their Desires for the Furtherance of so noble a Work, which may, by the Providence of Almighty God, hereafter tend to the Glory of his Divine Majesty, in propagating of Christian Religion to such People, as yet live in Darkness and miserable Ignorance of the true Knowledge and Worship of God…
Instructions for the Virginia Colony (1606)
Lastly and chiefly the way to prosper and achieve good success is to make yourselves all of one mind for the good of your country and your own, and to serve and fear God the Giver of all Goodness, for every plantation which our Heavenly Father hath not planted shall be rooted out.

William Bradford
• wrote that they [the Pilgrims] were seeking:
• 1) "a better, and easier place of living”; and that “the children of the group were being drawn away by evil examples into extravagance and dangerous courses [in Holland]“
• 2) “The great hope, and for the propagating and advancing the gospel of the kingdom of Christ in those remote parts of the world"
The Mayflower Compact (authored by William Bradford) 1620 | Signing of the Mayflower painting | Picture of Compact
“Having undertaken, for the glory of God, and advancement of the Christian faith, and honor of our King and Country, a voyage to plant the first colony in the northern parts of Virginia, do by these presents solemnly and mutually, in the presence of God, and one of another, covenant and combine our selves together…”
______________________________________________________________________

John Adams and John Hancock:
We Recognize No Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus! [April 18, 1775]

John Adams:
“ The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity… I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.”
• “[July 4th] ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.”
–John Adams in a letter written to Abigail on the day the Declaration was approved by Congress

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." --October 11, 1798

"I have examined all religions, as well as my narrow sphere, my straightened means, and my busy life, would allow; and the result is that the Bible is the best Book in the world. It contains more philosophy than all the libraries I have seen." December 25, 1813 letter to Thomas Jefferson

"Without Religion this World would be Something not fit to be mentioned in polite Company, I mean He!!." [John Adams to Thomas Jefferson, April 19, 1817] |
.......click here to see this quote in its context and to see John Adams' quotes taken OUT of context!


Samuel Adams: | Portrait of Sam Adams | Powerpoint presentation on John, John Quincy, and Sam Adams
“ He who made all men hath made the truths necessary to human happiness obvious to all… Our forefathers opened the Bible to all.” [ "American Independence," August 1, 1776. Speech delivered at the State House in Philadelphia]

“ Let divines and philosophers, statesmen and patriots, unite their endeavors to renovate the age by impressing the minds of men with the importance of educating their little boys and girls, inculcating in the minds of youth the fear and love of the Deity… and leading them in the study and practice of the exalted virtues of the Christian system.” [October 4, 1790]

John Quincy Adams:
• “Why is it that, next to the birthday of the Savior of the world, your most joyous and most venerated festival returns on this day [the Fourth of July]?" “Is it not that, in the chain of human events, the birthday of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birthday of the Savior? That it forms a leading event in the progress of the Gospel dispensation? Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer's mission upon earth? That it laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity"?
--1837, at the age of 69, when he delivered a Fourth of July speech at Newburyport, Massachusetts.

“The Law given from Sinai [The Ten Commandments] was a civil and municipal as well as a moral and religious code.”
John Quincy Adams. Letters to his son. p. 61

Elias Boudinot: | Portrait of Elias Boudinot
“ Be religiously careful in our choice of all public officers . . . and judge of the tree by its fruits.”

Charles Carroll - signer of the Declaration of Independence | Portrait of Charles Carroll
" Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure...are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments." [Source: To James McHenry on November 4, 1800.]

Benjamin Franklin: | Portrait of Ben Franklin
“ God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel” –Constitutional Convention of 1787 | original manuscript of this speech

“In the beginning of the contest with Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayers in this room for Divine protection. Our prayers, Sir, were heard, and they were graciously answered… do we imagine we no longer need His assistance?” [Constitutional Convention, Thursday June 28, 1787]

In Benjamin Franklin's 1749 plan of education for public schools in Pennsylvania, he insisted that schools teach "the excellency of the Christian religion above all others, ancient or modern."

In 1787 when Franklin helped found Benjamin Franklin University, it was dedicated as "a nursery of religion and learning, built on Christ, the Cornerstone."

Alexander Hamilton:
• Hamilton began work with the Rev. James Bayard to form the Christian Constitutional Society to help spread over the world the two things which Hamilton said made America great:
(1) Christianity
(2) a Constitution formed under Christianity.
“The Christian Constitutional Society, its object is first: The support of the Christian religion. Second: The support of the United States.”

On July 12, 1804 at his death, Hamilton said, “I have a tender reliance on the mercy of the Almighty, through the merits of the Lord Jesus Christ. I am a sinner. I look to Him for mercy; pray for me.”

"For my own part, I sincerely esteem it [the Constitution] a system which without the finger of God, never could have been suggested and agreed upon by such a diversity of interests." [1787 after the Constitutional Convention]

"I have carefully examined the evidences of the Christian religion, and if I was sitting as a juror upon its authenticity I would unhesitatingly give my verdict in its favor. I can prove its truth as clearly as any proposition ever submitted to the mind of man."

John Hancock:
• “In circumstances as dark as these, it becomes us, as Men and Christians, to reflect that whilst every prudent measure should be taken to ward off the impending judgments, …at the same time all confidence must be withheld from the means we use; and reposed only on that God rules in the armies of Heaven, and without His whole blessing, the best human counsels are but foolishness… Resolved; …Thursday the 11th of May…to humble themselves before God under the heavy judgments felt and feared, to confess the sins that have deserved them, to implore the Forgiveness of all our transgressions, and a spirit of repentance and reformation …and a Blessing on the … Union of the American Colonies in Defense of their Rights [for which hitherto we desire to thank Almighty God]…That the people of Great Britain and their rulers may have their eyes opened to discern the things that shall make for the peace of the nation…for the redress of America’s many grievances, the restoration of all her invaded liberties, and their security to the latest generations.
"A Day of Fasting, Humiliation and Prayer, with a total abstinence from labor and recreation. Proclamation on April 15, 1775"

Patrick Henry:
"Orator of the Revolution."
• This is all the inheritance I can give my dear family. The religion of Christ can give them one which will make them rich indeed.”
—The Last Will and Testament of Patrick Henry

“It cannot be emphasized too clearly and too often that this nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.” [May 1765 Speech to the House of Burgesses]

“The Bible is worth all other books which have ever been printed.”

John Jay:
“ Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.” Source: October 12, 1816. The Correspondence and Public Papers of John Jay, Henry P. Johnston, ed., (New York: Burt Franklin, 1970), Vol. IV, p. 393.

“Whether our religion permits Christians to vote for infidel rulers is a question which merits more consideration than it seems yet to have generally received either from the clergy or the laity. It appears to me that what the prophet said to Jehoshaphat about his attachment to Ahab ["Shouldest thou help the ungodly and love them that hate the Lord?" 2 Chronicles 19:2] affords a salutary lesson.” [The Correspondence and Public Papers of John Jay, 1794-1826, Henry P. Johnston, Editor (New York: G.P. Putnam's Sons, 1893), Vol. IV, p.365]

Thomas Jefferson:
“ The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend to all the happiness of man.”

“Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus.”

"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."

“God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that His justice cannot sleep forever.” (excerpts are inscribed on the walls of the Jefferson Memorial in the nations capital) [Source: Merrill . D. Peterson, ed., Jefferson Writings, (New York: Literary Classics of the United States, Inc., 1984), Vol. IV, p. 289. From Jefferson’s Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVIII, 1781.]

Samuel Johnston:
• “It is apprehended that Jews, Mahometans (Muslims), pagans, etc., may be elected to high offices under the government of the United States. Those who are Mahometans, or any others who are not professors of the Christian religion, can never be elected to the office of President or other high office, [unless] first the people of America lay aside the Christian religion altogether, it may happen. Should this unfortunately take place, the people will choose such men as think as they do themselves.
[Elliot’s Debates, Vol. IV, pp 198-199, Governor Samuel Johnston, July 30, 1788 at the North Carolina Ratifying Convention]

James Madison
“ We’ve staked our future on our ability to follow the Ten Commandments with all of our heart.”

“We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We’ve staked the future of all our political institutions upon our capacity…to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God.” [1778 to the General Assembly of the State of Virginia]

• I have sometimes thought there could not be a stronger testimony in favor of religion or against temporal enjoyments, even the most rational and manly, than for men who occupy the most honorable and gainful departments and [who] are rising in reputation and wealth, publicly to declare the unsatisfactoriness [of temportal enjoyments] by becoming fervent advocates in the cause of Christ; and I wish you may give in your evidence in this way.
Letter by Madison to William Bradford (September 25, 1773)
• In 1812, President Madison signed a federal bill which economically aided the Bible Society of Philadelphia in its goal of the mass distribution of the Bible.
“ An Act for the relief of the Bible Society of Philadelphia” Approved February 2, 1813 by Congress

“It is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forbearance, love, and charity toward each other.”

• A watchful eye must be kept on ourselves lest, while we are building ideal monuments of renown and bliss here, we neglect to have our names enrolled in the Annals of Heaven. [Letter by Madison to William Bradford [urging him to make sure of his own salvation] November 9, 1772]

At the Constitutional Convention of 1787, James Madison proposed the plan to divide the central government into three branches. He discovered this model of government from the Perfect Governor, as he read Isaiah 33:22;
“For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver,
the LORD is our king;
He will save us.”
[Baron Charles Montesquieu, wrote in 1748; “Nor is there liberty if the power of judging is not separated from legislative power and from executive power. If it [the power of judging] were joined to legislative power, the power over life and liberty of the citizens would be arbitrary, for the judge would be the legislature if it were joined to the executive power, the judge could have the force of an oppressor. All would be lost if the same … body of principal men … exercised these three powers." Madison claimed Isaiah 33:22 as the source of division of power in government
See also: pp.241-242 in Teaching and Learning America’s Christian History: The Principle approach by Rosalie Slater]

James McHenry – Signer of the Constitution
Public utility pleads most forcibly for the general distribution of the Holy Scriptures. The doctrine they preach, the obligations they impose, the punishment they threaten, the rewards they promise, the stamp and image of divinity they bear, which produces a conviction of their truths, can alone secure to society, order and peace, and to our courts of justice and constitutions of government, purity, stability and usefulness. In vain, without the Bible, we increase penal laws and draw entrenchments around our institutions. Bibles are strong entrenchments. Where they abound, men cannot pursue wicked courses, and at the same time enjoy quiet conscience.

Jedediah Morse:
"To the kindly influence of Christianity we owe that degree of civil freedom, and political and social happiness which mankind now enjoys. . . . Whenever the pillars of Christianity shall be overthrown, our present republican forms of government, and all blessings which flow from them, must fall with them."

John Peter Gabriel Muhlenberg
In a sermon delivered to his Virginia congregation on Jan. 21, 1776, he preached from Ecclesiastes 3.
Arriving at verse 8, which declares that there is a time of war and a time of peace, Muhlenberg noted that this surely was not the time of peace; this was the time of war. Concluding with a prayer, and while standing in full view of the congregation, he removed his clerical robes to reveal that beneath them he was wearing the uniform of an officer in the Continental army! He marched to the back of the church; ordered the drum to beat for recruits and over three hundred men joined him, becoming the Eighth Virginia Brigade. John Peter Muhlenberg finished the Revolution as a Major-General, having been at Valley Forge and having participated in the battles of Brandywine, Germantown, Monmouth, Stonypoint, and Yorktown.

Thomas Paine:
“ It has been the error of the schools to teach astronomy, and all the other sciences, and subjects of natural philosophy, as accomplishments only; whereas they should be taught theologically, or with reference to the Being who is the author of them: for all the principles of science are of divine origin. Man cannot make, or invent, or contrive principles: he can only discover them; and he ought to look through the discovery to the Author.”
“ The evil that has resulted from the error of the schools, in teaching natural philosophy as an accomplishment only, has been that of generating in the pupils a species of atheism. Instead of looking through the works of creation to the Creator himself, they stop short, and employ the knowledge they acquire to create doubts of his existence. They labour with studied ingenuity to ascribe every thing they behold to innate properties of matter, and jump over all the rest by saying, that matter is eternal.” “The Existence of God--1810”

Benjamin Rush:
• “I lament that we waste so much time and money in punishing crimes and take so little pains to prevent them…we neglect the only means of establishing and perpetuating our republican forms of government; that is, the universal education of our youth in the principles of Christianity by means of the Bible; for this Divine Book, above all others, constitutes the soul of republicanism.” “By withholding the knowledge of [the Scriptures] from children, we deprive ourselves of the best means of awakening moral sensibility in their minds.” [Letter written (1790’s) in Defense of the Bible in all schools in America]
• “Christianity is the only true and perfect religion.”
• “If moral precepts alone could have reformed mankind, the mission of the Son of God into our world would have been unnecessary.”

"Let the children who are sent to those schools be taught to read and write and above all, let both sexes be carefully instructed in the principles and obligations of the Christian religion. This is the most essential part of education”
Letters of Benjamin Rush, "To the citizens of Philadelphia: A Plan for Free Schools", March 28, 1787

Justice Joseph Story:
“ I verily believe Christianity necessary to the support of civil society. One of the beautiful boasts of our municipal jurisprudence is that Christianity is a part of the Common Law. . . There never has been a period in which the Common Law did not recognize Christianity as lying its foundations.”
[Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States p. 593]
“ Infidels and pagans were banished from the halls of justice as unworthy of credit.” [Life and letters of Joseph Story, Vol. II 1851, pp. 8-9.]
“ At the time of the adoption of the constitution, and of the amendment to it, now under consideration [i.e., the First Amendment], the general, if not the universal sentiment in America was, that Christianity ought to receive encouragement from the state, so far as was not incompatible with the private rights of conscience, and the freedom of religious worship.”
[Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States p. 593]

Noah Webster:
“ The duties of men are summarily comprised in the Ten Commandments, consisting of two tables; one comprehending the duties which we owe immediately to God-the other, the duties we owe to our fellow men.”

“In my view, the Christian religion is the most important and one of the first things in which all children, under a free government ought to be instructed...No truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian religion must be the basis of any government intended to secure the rights and privileges of a free people.”
[Source: 1828, in the preface to his American Dictionary of the English Language]

Let it be impressed on your mind that God commands you to choose for rulers just men who will rule in the fear of God [Exodus 18:21]. . . . If the citizens neglect their duty and place unprincipled men in office, the government will soon be corrupted . . . If our government fails to secure public prosperity and happiness, it must be because the citizens neglect the Divine commands, and elect bad men to make and administer the laws. [Noah Webster, The History of the United States (New Haven: Durrie and Peck, 1832), pp. 336-337, 49]

“All the miseries and evils which men suffer from vice, crime, ambition, injustice, oppression, slavery and war, proceed from their despising or neglecting the precepts contained in the Bible.” [Noah Webster. History. p. 339]

“The Bible was America’s basic textbook
in all fields.” [Noah Webster. Our Christian Heritage p.5]

“Education is useless without the Bible” [Noah Webster. Our Christian Heritage p.5 ]

George Washington:

Farewell Address: The name of American, which belongs to you, in your national capacity, must always exalt the just pride of Patriotism, more than any appellation derived from local discriminations. With slight shades of difference, you have the same religion" ...and later: "...reason and experience both forbid us to expect, that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle..."


“ It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and Bible.”

“What students would learn in American schools above all is the religion of Jesus Christ.” [speech to the Delaware Indian Chiefs May 12, 1779]

"To the distinguished character of patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian" [May 2, 1778, at Valley Forge]

During his inauguration, Washington took the oath as prescribed by the Constitution but added several religious components to that official ceremony. Before taking his oath of office, he summoned a Bible on which to take the oath, added the words “So help me God!” to the end of the oath, then leaned over and kissed the Bible.

Nelly Custis-Lewis (Washington’s adopted daughter):
Is it necessary that any one should [ask], “Did General Washington avow himself to be a believer in Christianity?" As well may we question his patriotism, his heroic devotion to his country. His mottos were, "Deeds, not Words"; and, "For God and my Country."

“ O Most Glorious God, in Jesus Christ, my merciful and loving Father; I acknowledge and confess my guilt in the weak and imperfect performance of the duties of this day. I have called on Thee for pardon and forgiveness of my sins, but so coldly and carelessly that my prayers are become my sin, and they stand in need of pardon.”
“ I have sinned against heaven and before Thee in thought, word, and deed. I have contemned Thy majesty and holy laws. I have likewise sinned by omitting what I ought to have done and committing what I ought not. I have rebelled against the light, despising Thy mercies and judgment, and broken my vows and promise. I have neglected the better things. My iniquities are multiplied and my sins are very great. I confess them, O Lord, with shame and sorrow, detestation and loathing and desire to be vile in my own eyes as I have rendered myself vile in Thine. I humbly beseech Thee to be merciful to me in the free pardon of my sins for the sake of Thy dear Son and only Savior Jesus Christ who came to call not the righteous, but sinners to repentance. Thou gavest Thy Son to die for me.”
[George Washington; from a 24 page authentic handwritten manuscript book dated April 21-23, 1752
William J. Johnson George Washington, the Christian (New York: The Abingdon Press, New York & Cincinnati, 1919), pp. 24-35.]

"Although guided by our excellent Constitution in the discharge of official duties, and actuated, through the whole course of my public life, solely by a wish to promote the best interests of our country; yet, without the beneficial interposition of the Supreme Ruler of the Universe, we could not have reached the distinguished situation which we have attained with such unprecedented rapidity. To HIM, therefore, should we bow with gratitude and reverence, and endeavor to merit a continuance of HIS special favors". [1797 letter to John Adams]

James Wilson:
Signer of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution
Supreme Court Justice appointed by George Washington
Spoke 168 times during the Constitutional Convention

"Christianity is part of the common law"
[Sources: James Wilson, Course of Lectures [vol 3, p.122]; and quoted in Updegraph v. The Commonwealth, 11 Serg, & R. 393, 403 (1824).]

________________________________________________________________________
Public Institutions
Liberty Bell Inscription:
“ Proclaim liberty throughout the land and to all the inhabitants thereof” [Leviticus 25:10]

Proposals for the seal of the United States of America
• “Moses lifting his wand and dividing the Red Sea” –Ben Franklin

• “The children of Israel in the wilderness, led by a cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night.” --Thomas Jefferson

On July 4, 1776, Congress appointed Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams "to bring in a device for a seal for the United States of America." Franklin's proposal adapted the biblical story of the parting of the Red Sea. Jefferson first recommended the "Children of Israel in the Wilderness, led by a Cloud by Day, and a Pillar of Fire by night. . . ." He then embraced Franklin's proposal and rewrote it

Jefferson's revision of Franklin's proposal was presented by the committee to Congress on August 20, 1776.

Another popular proposal to the Great Seal of the United States was:
" Rebellion to Tyrants is Obedience to God"; with Pharoah's army drowning in the Red Sea

The three branches of the U.S. Government: Judicial, Legislative, Executive
• At the Constitutional Convention of 1787, James Madison proposed the plan to divide the central government into three branches. He discovered this model of government from the Perfect Governor, as he read Isaiah 33:22;
“For the LORD is our judge,
the LORD is our lawgiver,
the LORD is our king;
He will save us.”

Article 22 of the constitution of Delaware (1776)
Required all officers, besides taking an oath of allegiance, to make and subscribe to the following declaration:
• "I, [name], do profess faith in God the Father, and in Jesus Christ His only Son, and in the Holy Ghost, one God, blessed for evermore; and I do acknowledge the Holy Scriptures of the Old and New Testament to be given by divine inspiration."

New York Spectator. August 23, 1831
“ The court of common pleas of Chester county, [New York] rejected a witness who declared his disbelief in the existence of God. The presiding judge remarked that he had not before been aware that there was a man living who did not believe in the existence of God; that this belief constituted the sanction of all testimony in a court of justice: and that he knew of no cause in a Christian country where a witness had been permitted to testify without such belief.

New England Primer:
Used in public and private schools from 1690 to 1900 second only to the Bible
Some of its contents:
A song of praise to God
Prayers in Jesus’ name
The famous Bible alphabet
Shorter Catechism of faith in Christ

And the Constitution, Bill of Rights does not mention religion only as exclusionary: Amendments
First Amendment – Establishment Clause, Free Exercise Clause; freedom of speech, of the press, and of assembly; right to petition
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Please refer to the phrase "or prohibit the free exercise thereof." That is not exclusionary.


Wrong, What are we going to do with you Kaydie? sm
Wherever you are born, as long as one of your parents is an American citizen, you are also a natural born American citizen. Period! No one can take your citizenship from you. You have been on this board for quite a while. How many times does this have to be reiterated? It doesn't matter if he went to school in 10 countries and lived abroad his whole life. Anyone born to an American citizen, unless as an adult voluntarily renouces it, just 1 parent needed, is a NATURAL BORN AMERICAN CITIZEN and qualified to vote for president. Get it?