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God d*mn America is ok then? As long as you have good church programs? (nm)

Posted By: Is that what prior poster was saying? on 2008-10-15
In Reply to: Thanks so much for the instant replay!! But guess what? No hate preached at my church though!! (sm) - My church has all the same ministries

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Programs the conservatives make a life long mission
nm
Your CHURCH doesn't belong in America's
***
I blame the Catholic church for allowing this to go on for so very long. SM

I have a lot of conservative friends and I seriously doubt they would condone this.   I knew there was a reason I stayed away from these boards.   As the poster above said, your post came up in a headline or I would never have come here.  


good morning america
he said that O and him worked on a fund raiser together, that they were family friends and that he donated money to an early campaign.  Now I watched a debate where O said that the only link between the two was that they happened to be on the same fund raiser and that he didnt know ayers other than that.  so i am sorry but that was not true. 
"Untied" States of America and good "buy."

Running from church to church is not the answer...sm

There are problems and controversy in every church.  I do not agree with things that go on in my church nor everything that my pastor says or does.  I have found that some churches problems are greater than the ones in your own church, so some times you have to be still. 


Here's one for ya....Me along with plenty of other Americans don't agree with what our current President Bush has done in terms of running our country, starting a war, making history by putting every state in this country in a negative deficit, and I could continue to go on, but the point is even in our disagreement with him, we have not jumped up and ran to another country and we wonder why; running is not the answer.  First off it is not our place to condemn one, but since someone is being condemned for what was said, condemn the Rev. Wright, not Obama.


He also said that some of programs...
need to be stripped and he is well aware of that. Don't forget, he didn't write this all by his lonesome - it was written in the House. He does not want it ditched altogether for fear of the consequences of starting from scratch - WE DON'T HAVE TIME. BUT, the pubs could give a rats about those of us in limbo - they'd rather engage in partisan infighting. If the morons would quit fighting - get to work and strip the garbage - present us with a job creation only bill - we'd be in business. But, cooperation is impossible - as evidenced by the hate posted all over this board.
You'll be waiting a long, long time, then, cuz she's going to do

cut what federal programs??

So the Federal govt is gonna cut back in entitlement programs to fund the rebuilding of NO?  Not gonna cease his tax cuts for the rich, just gonna cut back on programs for.....the disadvantaged, of course, the ones whose voices will not be heard..Whose fault was NO?  Bush and his administration.  I say Bush should donate some of his millions to the rebuilding of NO, let some of the unfortunate ones camp on his 1700 acres that he boasts about..He got us into this awful mess.  His speech the other night was a joke..Just another press moment, trying to pull on Americans heart strings but it aint working, LOL..**Long live equality**..Three more years?  Oh gee, can we survive?  What will be the next catastrophe under this fool?  9/11, Iraq and now NO..**America where are you**?


The programs in the stimulus...nm
x
The History Channel programs are

often very factual. I watch it a lot.


I would love to see the John Adams program but I gave up HBO. They didn't seem to have very good programming for a long time, movie-wise, and a lot of the series were on too late for me, so I gave HBO up (after 15 years).


 


 


 


govt job programs/CETA

My first real job some 30 years ago was a CETA job. That was Comprehensive Employment and Training Act. This was doing medical transcription for a county health department.  I worked as a CETA employee for a year, they trained me and paid me, and I have worked in transcription for 30 years, of course moving on to hospital stuff. Made big bucks for quite a few years and now here I am, strangely enough, I think back to the same money I made all those years ago.  You've got to keep your sense of humor. 


 


   


Ronnie Reagan, the man who cut all the programs for mentally ill and sm
that is when you started seeing all the homeless people on the streets. During his reign of terror. A horrible president.
we already have schools and programs to feed our hungry
x
Yea but he didn't have to pre-empt my favorite programs
Judge Joe and Judge Alex. They were gonna be pretty good today. Guess I'll have to wait for re-runs. LOL
In our area, all the "Handicapable" work programs are
subsidized through the state or private donors. The state is broke. They have already announced this is one of the areas of the budget that will be eliminated, along with the subsidized housing programs that provide the same people with independent or assisted living residences. The private corporate donors in our area are announcing layoffs by the thousands and have cut way back on community donations.
This is not social programs......this is HUGE government
!!
Why shouldnt gov fund religious programs?
I should be able to get some funding just like everyone else if I have a religious program.  I mean we fund abortion here in the US and abroad.  We fund wars, we fund all kinds of CRAP so why NOT religion?  Isnt it supposed to be equal and fair?  Why is it the religious people of this world, namely the Christians get the short end of the stick? 
Here's some info on the 'shovel ready' programs.
Read this morning in our paper that the majority of the stimulus money coming to our great state of Ohio is going to go not to construction projects (like it was supposed to, hence the term 'shovel ready'), but to study construction projects.

I get that maybe we just shouldn't throw money to whatever pothole comes first and that there has to be some sort of order, but the reasoning behind this 'study' given by Gov. Strickland was that it was totally within the parameters of the stimulus and "we're putting engineers and planners to work."

I'm sure that will be greatly appreciated by those construction workers three years from now - after they've lost their homes, cars, equipment, business, etc.

I wish I could explain it, but I just don't get it either.

He died a long, long time ago! (If he was ever
Don't force your beliefs on others. It further devalues your faith in the eyes of others.
Correct....or the 3.5 trillion dollar social programs
@
Tax cuts, progressive tax system, social programs
are as American as apple pie and these same policies and initiatives can be found puncuating the pages of our history from the day of our country's inception.

You do not understand Marxism or socialism, or you would be a lot more exercised by the current redistribution of wealth that takes your tax dollars and moves them upward to an elite ruling class that represses and undermines the middle class at the drop of a hat. State ownership of banks, lending institutions and direct personal property "buy outs" (as proposed by McCain certainly smack of Marxism and are not exactly what you could call traditional American values.
employer based-programs subsidize insurance...
not just make it available--and therein lies my problem.
And govt shouldn't fund religious programs....
schools, facilities, etc.
Putting together job programs in order to get people back to work....sm
able to perhaps save their homes and families, able to pay taxes, which will in turn pay for social programs, support the infrastructure, and then when folk are back to work they will feel secure in perhaps purchasing again, which will help businesses....FDR did it, it takes time, it is not a quick fix, it won't make Obama into Merlin, it took 8 LONG YEARS to get into this bottomless pit, can we give this administration at least a year or two to try to get things moving upward again? I may not support every social program included therein, but work is being done, adn will continue. I used to cross the desert on occasion when I lived in CA, and I am starting to see vultures on the side of the road again circling and not even waiting to pounce and pull apart the government. Why? Just my opion.
that church is concerning to me
it SHOULD be concerning to everyone.
This is why I don't go to church

Is this what is going on in the churchs now?  Fear tactics that we are all doomed to he**?  Our society is morally based.  Go walk around the Middle East for a day and you will appreciate just how moral we are.  The public schools aren't there to raise our children and at least they can go to school.  You don't have to put your child in the public school system, that is also the beauty of choice in our country.  Try having your child dodge bombs instead or be taught to strap bombs to themselves and die in the name of God.  I'll take the science class any day over that.  You can teach your children to have faith and to read books based on opinions and science.  We aren't stupid, we can make our own decisions.  I love the fact that my son can argue all points of view.  He was taught evolution, so what?  He is smart enough to make his own decision, just like you!  All opinions should be presented to grow and learn.  If there was only one point of view, how would we know how to chose? 


If he didn't go to church, then what would you say?
He can't win; if he goes he's wrong, if he doesn't what? The fact remains: Clinton lied, nobody died. Bush lied and 3 YEARS, billions of dollars later, 2300+ died...and yet we're being told how much **progress** is being made. Get over Clinton and wake up!
Yes, and The Persecuted Church
While persecution is not exclusionary to one set of beliefs at the present time Christians are the most persecuted people in the world especially in the Arab world and in communistic countries such as China and dictatorial countries like Iran and North Korea.

persecutedchurch.org

obama's church

OBAMA'S CHURCH

Subject: TRINITY UNITED CHURCH OF CHRIST

During this campaign for the Presidency, It's interesting that so much had been made of Mitt Romney's Mormom religion, while we heard/hear so little of Barack Obama's, outside of the denials of his being Muslim.


However, if you look more closely at Trinity United Church of Christ, Obama's church, it sounds more like a racist cult than anything else, with a committment, not to America, but to Africa. Scary, when you consider this man could be the President of this United States.

Please go to this church's website and read what is written there. It is very alarming. Barack Obama is a member of this church and is running for President of the U.S. If you look at the first page of their website, you will learn that this congregation has a non-negotiable commitment to Africa. No where is AMERICA even mentioned.  Notice too, what color you will need to be if you should want to join Obama's church... B-L-A-C-K!  Whites attend, I have also read, but are not members.  Doesn't look like his choice of religion has improved much over his (former?) Muslim upbringing.  This guy desires to rule over America while his loyalty is totally vested in a Black Africa!  It is so important to pass this message along to all of our family & friends. To think that Obama has even the slightest chance in the run for the presidency, is really scary. This is the web page for the church Barack Obama belongs to:

www.tucc.org/about.htm


and then I saw/heard him speak yesterday and only see young white people always arround him....where are these black folks who are supporting him?  The whites on TV clamoring around him far outweigh the number of blacks ALL the time that I see, I do not get that....it should be mixed in my mind wherever he speaks/goes to. 


I am not a racist so please do not attack me.....


 


Catholic Church


A Huge Embarrassment
Washington Prowler

Nancy Pelosi's big mouth is the last problem the Obama campaign wanted to contend with.

The Prowler, 8/27/2008 12:08:39 AM

 



 



In its newly ratified platform, the Democratic Party reinvigorates its commitment to abortion.

Daniel Allott, 8/27/2008 12:07:55 AM

 


American Papists
The Nation's Pulse

This time Nancy Pelosi has truly gone too far -- which isn't good news for Joe Biden either.

Lisa Fabrizio, 8/27/2008 12:07:20 AM

 

Found at spectator.org.  Other info at wnd.com

The Church Lady
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61wj4tJICcc
If you go to church, has your pastor done this?

WEST BEND, Wis. (AP) - Thirty-three pastors in 22 states used their sermons to make pointed recommendations about political candidates today.


The effort was orchestrated by the Arizona-based Alliance Defense Fund.


The conservative legal group plans to send copies of the pastors' sermons to the Internal Revenue Service with hope of setting off a legal fight and abolishing restrictions on church involvement in politics.


Critics call it unnecessary, divisive and unlikely to succeed.


The Reverend Eric Williams of Columbus has organized 55 religious leaders across the nation to file a complaint about the ADF's challenge.


The minister with the liberal United Church of Christ says churches should stand apart from the government.


I am surprised! You went to Church?....
.
you have never been to my sister's church
and she is not going to look for a different one either. You don't speak for God and neither do they.

These churches have their own agendas. Anybody can be brainwashed if they do not question authority.
But did he attend church
There is a difference you know. One can claim to be a member of a church and never set foot in it. Perhaps this is how he did it.
Because there's more than one church, one viewpoint?
Until we all think and behave exactly like them, some Christians won't feel they got their way?
And Reps want the church to tell me what to do.
nm
What is the reason for church
I don't go to church either.  There is a church on every corner in my town and yet I don't know any of my neighbors?  The only time a neighbor knocks on my door is when they are trying to convert me.  What about all the kids who can only eat when they go to school?  What about when someone gets their electric bill shut off in the winter?  Can't the church help that person out?  Or is it more important to fund the Sunday Pot Luck, Mens Camp or build a new wing - great use of tithing!  What about the child who is being abused right under our nose?  What is the church for and who do they care about?  Members only?  A church on every corner and yet my city is crumbling.  Self-rightous do-gooders who don't do much and then complain if the government has to step in and help out.  Judgemental people who can't see what is right next door.  Stupid projects like sending red envelopes.  I'm sure you will be blessed 10-fold for that one.   I am Pro-choice and I am a foster parent who is trying to improve a real life and I don't believe in going to modern day churches filled with people who are more concerned about what the rest of the world is doing wrong.  I can't be concerned with that because I do enough wrong on my own.   So this weekend, while your sitting around feeling so self-rightous, go talk to a perfect stranger and ask how they are doing.  You will be amazed at the difference you can make in a life when it isn't Sunday morning at church. 
If a church - see message
doesn't want to hire you based on whether you were married in the church - well you probably don't want to work there in the first place.

I was married in the town hall by the Mayor of one of the cities in Denmark. Would they not consider that a marriage?

My belief is marriage is marriage. Call it what you want, it's still marriage. Two people love each other they should be able to be married no matter what gender, race, or anything. Calling it something else is discrimination - plane and simple.
Obama was a member of a church ...
where God Dam* America was preached. And it was in 1994 either. HE taught Saul Alinsky's methods. Saul's son said Obama learned his father's lessons well. I'll say. Already wanting to employ redistribution of wealth. That is a threat NOW.


The Church of the Self-Righteous Has Spoken

I don't care what anyone believes or practices - freedom of religion 


It's the freaks who think THEIR religion is the ONLY RIGHT religion who scare me.


Even Jesus was a liberal.


Since I believe in SEPARATION of church & state,
Save it for Sundays in church, Sarah!
Religious people go to church
Religious people who go to work check their religion at the door. The constitution specifically instructs Congress to do the same. "Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." This means keep religion out of federal legislative codes. Implied therein is the concept that the nation is not theocratic in nature.

The original poster is well understood in the expressed wish that this not be forgotten and remain unchanged. It is difficult to understand what is meant by the statement that religion will be in the White House under any leadership. Clearly, religious people, some to a greater degree than others, will inhabit the White House and the chambers of Congress. However, religion is constitutionally prohibited from entering the body of our laws and does not provide a foundation for our governmental institutions. The constitution has given indivuals immunity from federally mandates on religion. Wise men of great vision, our forefathers.
As the SNL church-lady would say, "Well now...
Not.
I went to a very moderate Baptist church as a ....sm
child and teenager, and no drinking alcohol or dancing was allowed whatsoever.
Separation of church and state.......... sm
is actually not described in the Constitution in the manner in which it is interpreted today. The First Amendment actually reads, in part, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ." One of the reasons America came to be was to flee government-instituted religion such as in England. It was more to keep government out of religion than the other way around. Today, however, it has come to be interpreted, especially by those who would eschew religion in all manners, as religion should be kept out of the government.

The phrase "separation of church and state" is more accurately traced to a letter from Thomas Jefferson to the Dansbury Baptists, a religious minority in Connecticut who were concerned about the dominant position of the Congregationalist Church there. They were concerned that the Congregationalists would "take over" the religion in much the same manner that the Church of England had taken over in England. He wrote: "Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their "legislature" should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between church and State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties." In other words, Jefferson was assuring the Dansbury Baptists that their religion would be safe from any government-imposed religion and that they would be free to worship and express their religious beliefs. It says nothing about constricting their religion to their churches and their homes.

Maybe this is one of the things that Obama would relate to his belief that the Constitution is a "living document" as opposed to a static document. Who knows?
and a Bible study is not a church either sm
There is a difference. Its about CHRISTIAN persecution!
IRS to Church: Support Iraq War or Lose Your

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-allsaints7nov07,0,592419,full.story?coll=la-home-headlines


Antiwar Sermon Brings IRS Warning


All Saints Episcopal Church in Pasadena risks losing its tax-exempt status because of a former rector's remarks in 2004.


By Patricia Ward Biederman and Jason Felch
Times Staff Writers

November 7, 2005

The Internal Revenue Service has warned one of Southern California's largest and most liberal churches that it is at risk of losing its tax-exempt status because of an antiwar sermon two days before the 2004 presidential election.

Rector J. Edwin Bacon of All Saints Episcopal Church in Pasadena told many congregants during morning services Sunday that a guest sermon by the church's former rector, the Rev. George F. Regas, on Oct. 31, 2004, had prompted a letter from the IRS.

In his sermon, Regas, who from the pulpit opposed both the Vietnam War and 1991's Gulf War, imagined Jesus participating in a political debate with then-candidates George W. Bush and John Kerry. Regas said that good people of profound faith could vote for either man, and did not tell parishioners whom to support.

But he criticized the war in Iraq, saying that Jesus would have told Bush, Mr. President, your doctrine of preemptive war is a failed doctrine. Forcibly changing the regime of an enemy that posed no imminent threat has led to disaster.

On June 9, the church received a letter from the IRS stating that a reasonable belief exists that you may not be tax-exempt as a church … The federal tax code prohibits tax-exempt organizations, including churches, from intervening in political campaigns and elections.

The letter went on to say that our concerns are based on a Nov. 1, 2004, newspaper article in the Los Angeles Times and a sermon presented at the All Saints Church discussed in the article.

The IRS cited The Times story's description of the sermon as a searing indictment of the Bush administration's policies in Iraq and noted that the sermon described tax cuts as inimical to the values of Jesus.

As Bacon spoke, 1984 Nobel Peace Prize winner Archbishop Desmond Tutu, a co-celebrant of Sunday's Requiem Eucharist, looked on.

We are so careful at our church never to endorse a candidate, Bacon said in a later interview.

One of the strongest sermons I've ever given was against President Clinton's fraying of the social safety net.

Telephone calls to IRS officials in Washington, D.C., and Los Angeles were not returned.

On a day when churches throughout California took stands on both sides of Proposition 73, which would bar abortions for minors unless parents are notified, some at All Saints feared the politically active church had been singled out.

I think obviously we were a bit shocked and dismayed, said Bob Long, senior warden for the church's oversight board. We felt somewhat targeted.

Bacon said the church had retained the services of a Washington law firm with expertise in tax-exempt organizations.

And he told the congregation: It's important for everyone to understand that the IRS concerns are not supported by the facts.

After the initial inquiry, the church provided the IRS with a copy of all literature given out before the election and copies of its policies, Bacon said.

But the IRS recently informed the church that it was not satisfied by those materials, and would proceed with a formal examination. Soon after that, church officials decided to inform the congregation about the dispute.

In an October letter to the IRS, Marcus Owens, the church's tax attorney and a former head of the IRS tax-exempt section, said, It seems ludicrous to suggest that a pastor cannot preach about the value of promoting peace simply because the nation happens to be at war during an election season.

Owens said that an IRS audit team had recently offered the church a settlement during a face-to-face meeting.

They said if there was a confession of wrongdoing, they would not proceed to the exam stage. They would be willing not to revoke tax-exempt status if the church admitted intervening in an election.

The church declined the offer.

Long said Bacon is fond of saying it's a sin not to vote, but has never told anyone how to vote. We don't do that. We preach to people how to vote their values, the biblical principles.

Regas, who was rector of All Saints from 1967 to 1995, said in an interview that he was surprised by the IRS action and then I became suspicious, suspicious that they were going after a progressive church person.

Regas helped the current church leadership collect information for the IRS on his sermon and the church's policies on involvement in political campaigns.

Some congregants were upset that a sermon citing Jesus Christ's championing of peace and the poor was the occasion for an IRS probe.

I'm appalled, said 70-year-old Anne Thompson of Altadena, a professional singer who also makes vestments for the church.

In a government that leans so heavily on religious values, that they would pull a stunt like this, it makes me heartsick.

Joe Mirando, an engineer from Burbank, questioned whether the 3,500-member church would be under scrutiny if it were not known for its activism and its liberal stands on social issues.

The question is, is it politically motivated? he said. That's the underlying feeling of everyone here. I don't have enough information to make a decision, but there's a suspicion.

Bacon revealed the IRS investigation at both morning services. Until his announcement, the mood of the congregation had been solemn because the services remembered, by name, those associated with the church who had died since last All Saints Day.

Regas' 2004 sermon imagined how Jesus would admonish Bush and Kerry if he debated them. Regas never urged parishioners to vote for one candidate over the other, but he did say that he believes Jesus would oppose the war in Iraq, and that Jesus would be saddened by Bush's positions on the use and testing of nuclear weapons.

In the sermon, Regas said, President Bush has led us into war with Iraq as a response to terrorism. Yet I believe Jesus would say to Bush and Kerry: 'War is itself the most extreme form of terrorism. President Bush, you have not made dramatically clear what have been the human consequences of the war in Iraq.'

Later, he had Jesus confront both Kerry and Bush: I will tell you what I think of your war: The sin at the heart of this war against Iraq is your belief that an American life is of more value than an Iraqi life. That an American child is more precious than an Iraqi baby. God loathes war.

If Jesus debated Bush and Kerry, Regas said, he would say to them, Why is so little mentioned about the poor?''

In his own voice, Regas said: ''The religious right has drowned out everyone else. Now the faith of Jesus has come to be known as pro-rich, pro-war and pro-American…. I'm not pro-abortion, but pro-choice. There is something vicious and violent about coercing a woman to carry to term an unwanted child.

When you go into the voting booth, Regas told the congregation, take with you all that you know about Jesus, the peacemaker. Take all that Jesus means to you. Then vote your deepest values.

Owens, the tax attorney, said he was surprised that the IRS is pursuing the case despite explicit statements by Regas that he was not trying to influence the congregation's vote.

I doubt it's politically motivated, Owens said. I think it is more a case of senior management at IRS not paying attention to what the rules are.

According to Owens, six years ago the IRS used to send about 20 such letters to churches a year. That number has increased sharply because of the agency's recent delegation of audit authority to agents on the front lines, he said.

He knew of two other churches, both critical of government policies, that had received similar letters, Owens said.

It's unclear how often the IRS raises questions about the tax-exempt status of churches.

While such action is rare, the IRS has at least once revoked the charitable designation of a church.

Shortly before the 1992 presidential election, a church in Binghamton, N.Y., ran advertisements against Bill Clinton's candidacy, and the tax agency ruled that the congregation could not retain its tax-exempt status because it had intervened in an election.

Bacon said he thought the IRS would eventually drop its case against All Saints.

It is a social action church, but not a politically partisan church, he said.


Obama was a member of a church whose pastor said...
"God damm* America." Obama went to that church for 20 years.

Palin's husband was a member of the Alaskan Independence party several years ago, and this quote came from the head of the party.

I see absolutely NO difference. If you are going to condemn one, condemn both.
Keep it in church - it doesn't belong in government.
their unwavering belief, Christians are NOT the center-of-the-Universe.