employer based-programs subsidize insurance...
Posted By: Kendra on 2008-10-28
In Reply to: He is not going to mandate that you have insurance - - Amanda
not just make it available--and therein lies my problem.
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Employer provided medical insurance
originated, I believe, during FDR's New Deal. When wages were capped, employers found a way to circumvent this by providing ''sickness insurance'' for their employees, thus giving them a raise without violating the wage caps.
Another example of government meddling. Had they not imposed wage caps, employers would have been able to keep paying their employees and give raises to enable them to afford their own healthcare. But instead, we grew the employer-provided healthcare system we have now and people experience ''job lock,'' unable to move to another employer because of pre-existing conditions which may not be covered by a new company's insurance plan.
Of course it's income, always has been. Same as use of a company car, or executive housing provided by a company (both of which are taxable to the extent they are used outside of actual business activities.) I'm amazed nobody until now has taxed insurance.
Does this constitute a new tax on people earning under $250 thousand (or $235 thousand, or whatever the new number is?)
President is going after overblown insurance charges, crooked insurance plans, .....sm
crooked hospital systems that have become quite prosperous "businesses" on the backs of the elderly, but he is NOT AGAINST the eldery getting good solid care, that is political hogwash and propaganda, you wise up and read up, and I don't mean from Fox or Coulter of Limbaugh or one of the Pub sources......
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=av1lMcI6E1no&refer=home
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/
Fact Based or Faith Based Policies...sm
Click watch video in the link.
Most impressive statement is how the Bush administration has gotten away from fact based policy making.
And then, that employer who does not
health insurance will be fined. Obama has not told us how much the fine will be, but how many small business owners are going to be able to afford this if they cannot afford the insurance?
If I ever receive an email like that from my employer...
..I will IMMEDIATELY begin to send out resumes and when I find another job, I will quit. I will give the courtesy of two weeks' notice, though, because one of us should be professional. However, my association with an employer like this will end immediately.
I don't think Washington gets the fact WE are their employer.....
And to think on September 18, 2008, they were ready to impose Martial Law because our entire economic and political infrastructure was headed toward collapse? THAT'S SCARY. So much for "Land of the Free" eh?
Obama says you can keep your employer health care....
but if you don't have, the government will step in. Under his tax proposals, how long do you think business will be able to afford health care for employees? Not very darned long. So, in the end, he gets what he wants...government controlled health care. He has changed the way he described it to try to end around the socialism tag of universal health care. Nice try, but no cigar. He is not fooling me. But, I don't take every word that falls out of his mouth as gospel like some do either (and I am not singling you out specifically).
my 401K from a previous employer hasn't lost much
but it's in low risk investments, a lot of bonds, and so when things get better, it probably won't rise as quickly as other 401k's. I'm a chicken.
He also said that some of programs...
need to be stripped and he is well aware of that. Don't forget, he didn't write this all by his lonesome - it was written in the House. He does not want it ditched altogether for fear of the consequences of starting from scratch - WE DON'T HAVE TIME. BUT, the pubs could give a rats about those of us in limbo - they'd rather engage in partisan infighting. If the morons would quit fighting - get to work and strip the garbage - present us with a job creation only bill - we'd be in business. But, cooperation is impossible - as evidenced by the hate posted all over this board.
cut what federal programs??
So the Federal govt is gonna cut back in entitlement programs to fund the rebuilding of NO? Not gonna cease his tax cuts for the rich, just gonna cut back on programs for.....the disadvantaged, of course, the ones whose voices will not be heard..Whose fault was NO? Bush and his administration. I say Bush should donate some of his millions to the rebuilding of NO, let some of the unfortunate ones camp on his 1700 acres that he boasts about..He got us into this awful mess. His speech the other night was a joke..Just another press moment, trying to pull on Americans heart strings but it aint working, LOL..**Long live equality**..Three more years? Oh gee, can we survive? What will be the next catastrophe under this fool? 9/11, Iraq and now NO..**America where are you**?
The programs in the stimulus...nm
x
The History Channel programs are
often very factual. I watch it a lot.
I would love to see the John Adams program but I gave up HBO. They didn't seem to have very good programming for a long time, movie-wise, and a lot of the series were on too late for me, so I gave HBO up (after 15 years).
govt job programs/CETA
My first real job some 30 years ago was a CETA job. That was Comprehensive Employment and Training Act. This was doing medical transcription for a county health department. I worked as a CETA employee for a year, they trained me and paid me, and I have worked in transcription for 30 years, of course moving on to hospital stuff. Made big bucks for quite a few years and now here I am, strangely enough, I think back to the same money I made all those years ago. You've got to keep your sense of humor.
Ronnie Reagan, the man who cut all the programs for mentally ill and sm
that is when you started seeing all the homeless people on the streets. During his reign of terror. A horrible president.
we already have schools and programs to feed our hungry
x
Yea but he didn't have to pre-empt my favorite programs
Judge Joe and Judge Alex. They were gonna be pretty good today. Guess I'll have to wait for re-runs. LOL
In our area, all the "Handicapable" work programs are
subsidized through the state or private donors. The state is broke. They have already announced this is one of the areas of the budget that will be eliminated, along with the subsidized housing programs that provide the same people with independent or assisted living residences. The private corporate donors in our area are announcing layoffs by the thousands and have cut way back on community donations.
This is not social programs......this is HUGE government
!!
Why shouldnt gov fund religious programs?
I should be able to get some funding just like everyone else if I have a religious program. I mean we fund abortion here in the US and abroad. We fund wars, we fund all kinds of CRAP so why NOT religion? Isnt it supposed to be equal and fair? Why is it the religious people of this world, namely the Christians get the short end of the stick?
Here's some info on the 'shovel ready' programs.
Read this morning in our paper that the majority of the stimulus money coming to our great state of Ohio is going to go not to construction projects (like it was supposed to, hence the term 'shovel ready'), but to study construction projects.
I get that maybe we just shouldn't throw money to whatever pothole comes first and that there has to be some sort of order, but the reasoning behind this 'study' given by Gov. Strickland was that it was totally within the parameters of the stimulus and "we're putting engineers and planners to work."
I'm sure that will be greatly appreciated by those construction workers three years from now - after they've lost their homes, cars, equipment, business, etc.
I wish I could explain it, but I just don't get it either.
God d*mn America is ok then? As long as you have good church programs? (nm)
x
Correct....or the 3.5 trillion dollar social programs
@
Tax cuts, progressive tax system, social programs
are as American as apple pie and these same policies and initiatives can be found puncuating the pages of our history from the day of our country's inception.
You do not understand Marxism or socialism, or you would be a lot more exercised by the current redistribution of wealth that takes your tax dollars and moves them upward to an elite ruling class that represses and undermines the middle class at the drop of a hat. State ownership of banks, lending institutions and direct personal property "buy outs" (as proposed by McCain certainly smack of Marxism and are not exactly what you could call traditional American values.
And govt shouldn't fund religious programs....
schools, facilities, etc.
Programs the conservatives make a life long mission
nm
Putting together job programs in order to get people back to work....sm
able to perhaps save their homes and families, able to pay taxes, which will in turn pay for social programs, support the infrastructure, and then when folk are back to work they will feel secure in perhaps purchasing again, which will help businesses....FDR did it, it takes time, it is not a quick fix, it won't make Obama into Merlin, it took 8 LONG YEARS to get into this bottomless pit, can we give this administration at least a year or two to try to get things moving upward again? I may not support every social program included therein, but work is being done, adn will continue. I used to cross the desert on occasion when I lived in CA, and I am starting to see vultures on the side of the road again circling and not even waiting to pounce and pull apart the government. Why? Just my opion.
Based on what?
Your wishful thinking? I find it hard to believe you're a moderate conservative. 2008 is still a long way off. The liberals better find an agenda other than hating Bush before they'll have any chance in hades of electing more of them to congress much less to the White House.
BASED ON...???
You want to back up that comment?
Or are you just talking out of your backside?
Based on what? (nm)
x
Based on Cat 3. When NWS warning came out,
nm
It is based on income . . .
not on grades. You have to keep your grades up to keep receiving it, BUT the primary requirement to receive it is low income. So do you thing those who have done well for themselves should be required to give money to those who are below them if they are trying to do better? Because that is what is sounds like. As long as it is benefiting you, it is okay because you are trying to do better?
No matter how you slice it, you are still taking from those who have and giving it to havenots. Just stay consistent with your argument. Who is to say who HONESTLY deserves aid?
Yup. The one's that's based in reality.
As in the real deal.
Based on your response...
Your moniker is a misnomer...it should be Christian with hate!
Whether or not this is religiously based or not
I just cannot condone late-term abortions. For that to be legal.....I just think that would be horrible. If a child can survive outside of the womb even though it hasn't been born yet and then it is aborted.....that is just plain and simple murder and if we allow that....what does that say about us? I think abortion should be legal with some guidelines.
Health insurance
I'm not sure about that specific point, but in her plan if you don't purchase medical insurance your wages will be garnished. How's that for communism?
Insurance companies.
I agree the insurance companies need a very, very major overhaul, but do you think the insurance companies are going to do that??? If they would there would be no need for a government run system, but the insurance companies will do absolutely zilch, and things cannot contine the way that they have been going.
I'd like to see the insurance companies
You're right about the mtg. insurance
It also irks me that somehow we are being asked for $700 billion to help these companies when $700 billion would go a long way toward ensuring Americans have health insurance - what about that Mr. Bush?
mccain - insurance
The Truth about the McCain-Palin Health Care Plan
!["](http://www.johnmccain.com/Images/ml4/hc/hc_main.jpg")
Barack Obama And Joe Biden Have Consistently Lied To Americans About John McCain's Plan. Their claims have failed every fact-check - from CBS to the Washington Post. John McCain is not going to raise taxes on middle class families. Barack Obama and Joe Biden are the only ones in this race that plan to raise taxes.
![Get](http://www.johnmccain.com/Images/ml4/hc/HCFACTS_LEARNMORE.jpg")
![](http://images.johnmccain.com/Images/ml4/hc2/hc_1.jpg")
OBAMA FICTION
John McCain Will Tax Health Care Benefits For The First Time And Will Be the Largest Middle Class Tax Increase In History.
THE FACTS
This Obama charge is a blatant mischaracterization of the McCain Health Plan. It only focuses on the fact that the value of the employer provided insurance will now show up as additional income for the employees – what he fails to mention – is that John McCain’s generous refundable tax credit ($5,000 for families and $2,500 for individuals) will not only shield millions of families from a tax increase but will actually give them MORE dollars to invest in their health care needs.
The McCain Plan DOES NOT tax:
- Premiums paid by families and individuals
- Employers for providing health care coverage
- Medical expenses like the cost of a procedure or medication
- Insurance claims
Approach Supported By Obama’s Own Advisor: This is an approach supported by Barack Obama's own Senior Economic Advisor Jason Furman who wrote that "we could scrap the current deduction altogether and replace it with progressive tax credits that, together with other changes, would ensure that every American has affordable health insurance."
Better Than "Members of Congress": Under the McCain Plan, your employer can provide you with health insurance as good as a "Member of Congress" (approximately $12,000), and you would pay no more in taxes – regardless of your tax bracket. In fact, you would have additional money left over from the McCain tax credit to put in a health savings account.
|
Income Tax Liability |
McCain-Palin
Tax Credit |
Total Tax Savings |
10% Bracket
(Up to $15,000)
|
$1,200 ($12,000 x 10%) |
$5,000 |
+$3,800 |
15% Bracket ($15,650 - $63,700)
|
$1,800 ($12,000 x 15%) |
$5,000 |
+$3,200 |
25% Bracket ($63,700 - $128,500)
|
$3,000 ($12,000 x 25%) |
$5,000 |
+$2,000 |
28% Bracket ($128,500 - $195,850)
|
$3,360 ($12,000 x 28%) |
$5,000 |
+$1,640 |
33% Bracket ($195,850 - $349,700)
|
$3,960 ($12,000 x 33%) |
$5,000 |
+$1,040 |
35% Bracket ($349,700 and Over)
|
$4,200 ($12,000 x 35%) |
$5,000 |
+$800 |
Where Is The Middle-Class "Tax Increase"? If you or your family is in the 28% bracket, with an income of $180,000, you could receive employer provided health insurance even better than a Member of Congress, with a cost of almost $18,000, with no increase in taxes. Even the liberal leaning Tax Policy Center, agrees that the McCain proposals will result in a "net tax benefit" of more than $1,200 for an average tax payer. A recent Lewin Group study estimated savings of more than $1,400 per American family – almost three times the savings as under the Obama plan.
O says that he will force insurance
companies to insure preexisting conditions. That sounds like something that will put them out of business to me. No need to buy insurance until you need it. Think of all the lost jobs.
He is not going to mandate that you have insurance -
he is only going to make sure that it is available to everyone whether they have an employer-based program or not.
if you already have insurance you don't have to change - nm
x
Nobody said free insurance -
where did you get that? He said he would make insurance available at an affordable rate for everybody...
But what if you didn't have any insurance...sm
at all? Wouldn't they let you die then because they won't treat you?
But insurance companies already tell us no
What's the difference who says no? Some insurance companies pretty much say no to everything but wellness visits - and that's simply so they can find out if you develop a condition, so they can drop your coverage on a threabare excuse, or jack your rates to the moon so you'll have to drop it. Then no other company has to cover you due to it being preexisting. I don't want to pay for insurance that only covers me if I'm not sick!
At least if there was universal healthcare, even with a wait, they'd have to treat you eventually instead of NEVER. And do it for free.
How are insurance companies...
...involved in the transcription of patient notes?
That just doesn't make sense. 
With health insurance, though
we are all driving basically the same model and we are insuring it for what could possibly happen, not what will or actually does.
Way back in the 1960s when I first started working, my company's health insurance did not cover single women for most 'female' issues, especially birth control and/or pregnancy-related issues, which has since been deemed discriminatory. Now you must cover everyone equally for every contingency.
The only way to individually ajust coverage costs would to be to exclude coverage based on genetic testing and/or family history, or maybe lifestyle issues such as alcohol or tobacco use or risky behavior like sky diving, which consumers have been fighting for years. This would probably also be deemed discriminatory.
Before canceling your insurance, you
should have checked a few things out.
I feel for you, but a pre-existing condition is NOT uninsurable if you have had insurance for 30 days prior to the illness.
Case in point: We had private health insurance paid for out of our own pockets for 6 years. DH had open heart surgery. In the meantime I got a job with a company, signed up for insurance and they stated a 1 year before they would insure him. Yet, it was less than 30 days since I signed up. All I needed was a Certificate of Insurance from our private carrier, and then no waiting period. I got that, and he is now totally insured under the company plan.
If you did not cancel your insurance until after your problem, you have a way out. Just ask the former insurance company for a certificate of insurance and no one can turn you down.
I'm not trying to be mean or whatever you want to call it, I'm trying to help, so don't take it the wrong way. Best of luck and hopefully, things will turn around for you.
Right, not something based on facts but on a fixation
Based on what is going on right now with Russia and georgia...
I would say looking in his eyes and seeing KGB is pretty much on the mark. McCain knows who and what Russian "management" are. You can see what they think about negotiations. Basically told the world up yours, if we want Georgia back we are going to take it. Why doesn't Obama go visit them like he did Germany and give a speech about how he is a citizen of the world and see how far it gets him. Sigh....Careful what YOU ask for.
Based on what? Genitalia over issues?
She is not exactly champion of feminist issues. Not to worry. We're better than that. She's no Hillary and most of her supporters will not hesitate to point that out.
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