Good for you for stating your views on the war then...

• Great speech by the mayor of Salt Lake City. sm - LVMT
  • A great speech indeed. Fantastic! - kam
  • My take - nana
    • Didn't see anything horrible - ExMQMT
      • Not scary....I guess Dems have a LOT of work to do... - Observer
        • Civil Rights Act voting - Taiga
          • Here are ALL the figures in case anyone is interested... - Observer
            • Your figures just further validate Taiga's post. - kam
              • Why is this being discussed? - DW
                • What is happening now is affected by what happened then... - Observer
                  • If your point - DW
                    • I am sorry that you find the truth offensive.... - Observer
                      • My offense does not come from - DW
                        • DW...that is not fair... - Observer
              • I guess the statement escaped you... - Observer
          • Nicely done Taiga, nicely done :) - kam
        • How does this relate to the mayor of Salt Lake City?? - Huh 2
          • Sounds like she is just reaching ... - ExMQMT
            • Yes, definitely reaching. All I can say is whaaaat? - kam
              • It is history, kam...look it up. - Observer
                • What's your point? - piglet
                  • The bottom line is.... - Observer
                    • I would have to disagree with you. - piglet
                      • Sigh....the only thing that keeps me from voting for a Democrat... - Observer
                      • Yeah Piglet!! - DW
                • Your 1st post in this thread had NOTHING to do - with the topic at hand, so....
                  • It was a reply to the post directly above it... - Observer
                    • which was - ExMQMT
                    • Um, okay... - kam
                      • Oh no, kam...don't leave. They NEED you... - Observer
                      • hahaha - ExMQMT
        • What - Huh?
    • Someone needs to say it, wish more had the guts.sm - LVMT
      • Right on! - Lifelong Democrat
        • I have read this one over and over...s/m - whorn
          • I'll tell ya - DW
            • Good for you for stating your views on the war then... - kam

The messages you are viewing are archived/old.
To view latest messages and participate in discussions, select the boards given in left menu

That's what makes America so great.  The freedom of all people to have different views, based on different principles (religious or otherwise).  And I would certainly fight to the death for your freedom of speech to say whatever you believe.

I firmly believe in a woman's right to choose as much as I firmly DON'T believe in partial birth abortions.  That's my opinion.  That doesn't make it right, and it doesn't make it wrong.  It just makes it my opinion.

As such, I don't feel I have the right to force my opinion on someone who might feel differently.  I believe this is a privacy issue, based on an individual's religious/spiritual beliefs (or lack thereof if that is the case) and not an issue that should be overturned because one Supreme Court Judge believes her religious views should be imposed on an entire nation.  Harriet Miers answered a questionnaire (I believe) in 1989, wherein not only did she say she's against Roe v. Wade, but she also promised to use the *influence* of her elected office to ban abortion.  If she has, in the past, promised to use the influence of her elected office to effect such a ban, why wouldn't she do the same with an appointed office?  The only solid *qualification* she has is her anti-choice religious views, which happen to coincide with those of Bush's *base.*  America has a lot of brilliant legal scholars and attorneys and judges who have devoted their entire careers specializing on Constitutional issues.  Why wasn't one of THOSE people considered for this appointment?

Regarding euthanasia, I can promise you right now that if I am ever terminally ill with an incurable disease and my pain progresses to the point where I just want to die with some dignity and not endure agonizing pain any longer, I certainly will not permit a bunch of people who have never met me to claim they know what's best for me and force me to obey THEIR religious beliefs and die on THEIR terms.  This notion is so arrogant on its face, it's even hard to write about.  I would hope my physician would be caring and compassionate and assist me in ending my suffering if I were to reach that level of agony.  Why do we show more kindness and compassion to our pets than we do to our humans?  My own spiritual beliefs would not preclude me from doing that, and I refuse to be forced to obey YOUR religious beliefs.  If forced to do so, then MY freedom of religion ceases to exist.

These are definitely privacy issues that, in my opinion, should be left to individuals.  What if the *right* religious belief in this country doesn't believe in contraceptives?  Will they be outlawed, as well?  That's not as far-fetched as it sounds. 

As far as dwindling morals in this country, I agree there are more heinous crimes being committed, particularly against children, than I can ever recall, and I'm outraged that our children are allowed to be raped and murdered, with the perpetrators of those crimes receiving what seem to be minimal prison sentences. 

I also think it's clearly immoral that our ability to live or die is directly related to the number of dollars we have in our wallet.  Healthcare in this country has become a very immoral commodity, along with legal care.  I find it disgustingly immoral that American children are starving to death every day.

Morality has to come from someone's heart.  It can't be forced, and it can't be legislated.  Each of us has our own conscience, our own soul, and our own *creator.*  Mine might not be the same as yours.  It doesn't mean one is right or one is wrong.  Just different.  That's the beauty of America:  Freedom of religion for all.

I can only end this as I started it, by saying that's what makes America so great.  The freedom of all people to have different views, based on different principles (religious or otherwise). 

Thanks for posting.  I appreciate the opportunity to engage in a debate with someone who is friendly and respectful and doesn't resort to calling names.  And I do respect your opinion and especially your right to say it, even though I respectfully disagree. 

(This, of course, pertained to CLINTON.  You can break the law, fake reasons to start a war and illegally spy on Americans, but don't you DARE have sex!!!!  I wonder how many of these holier-than-thou people have the courage or ethics to repeat these words today, pertaining to BUSH.)

Rep. Marge Roukema (R-N.J.):
And we all share in the emotional trauma getting back to our subject of this constitutional crisis in which we are ensnared. But this cup cannot pass us by, we can't avoid it, we took an oath of office, Mr. Speaker, to uphold the Constitution under our democratic system of government, separation of powers, and checks and balances.

And we must fulfill that oath and send the articles of impeachment to the Senate for a trial. Now I say personally, and all of you who know me, and a lot of you do, I've been around a long time; I bear no personal animosity towards the president. But we in the House did not seek this constitutional confrontation.

Rep. J.C. Watts (R-Okla.):
How can we expect a Boy Scout to honor his oath if elected officials don't honor theirs? How can we expect a business executive to honor a promise when the chief executive abandons his or hers?

Rep. Richard K. Armey (R-Tex.):
How did this great nation of the 1990s come to be? It all happened Mr. Speaker, because freedom works. . . . But freedom, Mr. Speaker, freedom depends upon something. The rule of law. And that's why this solemn occasion is so important. For today we are here to defend the rule of law. According to the evidence presented by our fine Judiciary Committee, the president of the United States has committed serious transgressions.

Among other things, he took an oath to God, to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. And then he failed to do so. Not once, but several times. If we ignore this evidence, I believe we undermine the rule of law that is so important that all America is. Mr. Speaker, a nation of laws cannot be ruled by a person who breaks the law. Otherwise, it would be as if we had one set of rules for the leaders and another for the governed. We would have one standard for the powerful, the popular and the wealthy, and another for everyone else.

This would belie our ideal that we have equal justice under the law. That would weaken the rule of law and leave our children and grandchildren with a very poor legacy. I don't know what challenges they will face in their time, but I do know they need to face those challenges with the greatest constitutional security and the soundest rule of fair and equal law available in the history of the world. And I don't want us to risk their losing that....

Rep. James Sensenbrenner (R-WI):
The framers of the Constitution devised an elaborate system of checks and balances to ensure our liberty by making sure that no person, institution or branch of government became so powerful that a tyranny could be established in the United States of America. Impeachment is one of the checks the framers gave the Congress to prevent the executive or judicial branches from becoming corrupt or tyrannical.

Rep. Lamar Smith (R-Texas):
When someone is elected president, they receive the greatest gift possible from the American people, their trust. To violate that trust is to raise questions about fitness for office. My constituents often remind me that if anyone else in a position of authority -- for example, a business executive, a military officer of a professional educator -- had acted as the evidence indicates the president did, their career would be over. The rules under which President Nixon would have been tried for impeachment had he not resigned contain this statement: The office of the president is such that it calls for a higher level of conduct than the average citizen in the United States.

Rep. Charles Canady (R-Fla.):
Many have asked why we are even here in these impeachment proceedings. They have asked why we can't just rebuke the president and move on. That's a reasonable question. And I certainly understand the emotions behind that question. I want to move on. Every member of this committee wants to move on. We all agree with that.

But the critical question is this: Do we move on under the Constitution, or do we move on by turning aside from the Constitution? Do we move on in faithfulness to our own oath to support and defend the Constitution, or do we go outside the Constitution because it seems more convenient and expedient?

Why are we here? We are here because we have a system of government based on the rule of law, a system of government in which no one -- no one -- is above the law. We are here because we have a constitution.

A constitution is often a most inconvenient thing. A constitution limits us when we would not be limited. It compels us to act when we would not act. But our Constitution, as all of us in this room acknowledge, is the heart and soul of the American experiment. It is the glory of the political world. And we are here today because the Constitution requires that we be here. We are here because the Constitution grants the House of Representatives the sole power of impeachment. We are here because the impeachment power is the sole constitutional means granted to Congress to deal with the misconduct of the chief executive of the United States.

In many other countries, a matter such as this involving the head of government would have been quietly swept under the rug. There would, of course, be some advantages to that approach. We would all be spared embarrassment, indignity and discomfort. But there would be a high cost if we followed that course of action. Something would be lost. Respect for the law would be subverted, and the foundation of our Constitution would be eroded.

The impeachment power is designed to deal with exactly such threats to our system of government. Conduct which undermines the integrity of the president's office, conduct by the chief executive which sets a pernicious example of lawlessness and corruption is exactly the sort of conduct that should subject a president to the impeachment power.

Rep. Bob Ingliss (R-S.C.):
I think is important to point out here is that we have a constitutional obligation, a constitutional obligation to act. And there are lots of folks who would counsel, Listen, let's just move along. It's sort of the Clinton so-what defense. So what? I committed perjury. So what? I broke the law. Let's just move along. I believe we've got a constitutional obligation to act.

Rep. Bob Goodlatte (R-Va.):

Mr. Chairman, this is a somber occasion. I am here because it is my constitutional duty, as it is the constitutional duty of every member of this committee, to follow the truth wherever it may lead. Our Founding Fathers established this nation on a fundamental yet at the time untested idea that a nation should be governed not by the whims of any man but by the rule of law. Implicit in that idea is the principle that no one is above the law, including the chief executive

Since it is the rule of law that guides us, we must ask ourselves what happens to our nation if the rule of law is ignored, cheapened or violated, especially at the highest level of government. Consider the words of former Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis, who was particularly insightful on this point. In a government of laws, the existence of the government will be imperiled if it fails to observe the law scrupulously. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. If government becomes a lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for the law. It invites every man to become a law unto himself.

Mr. Chairman, we must ask ourselves what our failure to uphold the rule of law will say to the nation, and most especially to our children, who must trust us to leave them a civilized nation where justice is respected.

Rep. Steve Buyer (R-Ind.):
You know, there are people out all across America every day that help define the nation's character, and they exercise common-sense virtues, whether it's honesty, integrity, promise-keeping, loyalty, respect, accountability, they pursue excellence, they exercise self-discipline. There is honor in a hard day's work. There's duty to country. Those are things that we take very seriously.

So those are things that the founders also took seriously. Yet every time I reflect upon the wisdom of the founding fathers, I think their wisdom was truly amazing. They pledged their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor to escape the tyranny of a king. They understood the nature of the human heart struggles between good and evil.

So the founders created a system of checks and balances and accountability. If corruption invaded the political system, a means was available to address it. The founders felt impeachment was so important it was included in six different places in the Constitution. The founders set the standard for impeachment of the president and other civil officers as treason, bribery, and other high crimes and misdemeanors.

The House of Representatives must use this standard in circumstances and facts of the president's conduct to determine if the occupant of the Oval Office is fit to continue holding the highest executive office of this great country.

Rep. Asa Hutchinson (R-Ark.):
In the next few days I will cast some of the most important votes of my career. Some believe these votes could result in a backlash and have serious political repercussions. They may be right. But I will leave the analysis to others. My preeminent concern is that the Constitution be followed and that all Americans, regardless of their position in society, receive equal and unbiased treatment in our courts of law. The fate of no president, no political party, and no member of Congress merits a slow unraveling of the fabric of our constitutional structure. As John Adams said, we are a nation of laws, not of men.

Our nation has survived the failings of its leaders before, but it cannot survive exceptions to the rule of law in our system of equal justice for all. There will always be differences between the powerful and the powerless. But imagine a country where a Congress agrees the strong are treated differently than the weak, where mercy is the only refuge for the powerless, where the power of our positions govern all of our decisions. Such a country cannot long endure. God help us to do what is right, not just for today, but for the future of this nation and for those generations that must succeed us.

Rep. Henry Hyde (R-Ill.):

I suggest impeachment is like beauty: apparently in the eye of the beholder. But I hold a different view. And it's not a vengeful one, it's not vindictive, and it's not craven. It's just a concern for the Constitution and a high respect for the rule of law. ... as a lawyer and a legislator for most of my very long life, I have a particular reverence for our legal system. It protects the innocent, it punishes the guilty, it defends the powerless, it guards freedom, it summons the noblest instincts of the human spirit.

The rule of law protects you and it protects me from the midnight fire on our roof or the 3 a.m. knock on our door. It challenges abuse of authority. It's a shame Darkness at Noon is forgotten, or The Gulag Archipelago, but there is such a thing lurking out in the world called abuse of authority, and the rule of law is what protects you from it. And so it's a matter of considerable concern to me when our legal system is assaulted by our nation's chief law enforcement officer, the only person obliged to take care that the laws are faithfully executed.

AND LAST, BUT NOT LEAST: 

Rep. Tom DeLay (R-Tex.):
I believe that this nation sits at a crossroads. One direction points to the higher road of the rule of law. Sometimes hard, sometimes unpleasant, this path relies on truth, justice and the rigorous application of the principle that no man is above the law.

Now, the other road is the path of least resistance. This is where we start making exceptions to our laws based on poll numbers and spin control. This is when we pitch the law completely overboard when the mood fits us, when we ignore the facts in order to cover up the truth.

Shall we follow the rule of law and do our constitutional duty no matter unpleasant, or shall we follow the path of least resistance, close our eyes to the potential lawbreaking, forgive and forget, move on and tear an unfixable hole in our legal system? No man is above the law, and no man is below the law. That's the principle that we all hold very dear in this country.

I agree that this is a huge issue.  We have the technology to be virtually independent energy wise, but too many crooked politicians have too much money invested in the oil companies and have no interest in seeing alternative energy sources take away any of their profit.  That, in my opinion, is a huge source of our problem.  Below I will post a portion of what Obama plans to do about the energy crisis (from his website - barackobama.com).  He has a much more detailed plan listed on his website.  I'm posting a link if anyone would like to read more.

"Barack Obama believes we have a moral, environmental, economic, and security imperative to address our dependence on foreign oil and tackle climate change in a serious, sustainable manner.

presidential candidate do you think MAY do something more about it.  I am sure a lot of you realize we have illegal immigrants (mostly in large number Mexican immigrants) who have swarmed into the country illegally. 

I have an Mexian illegal immigrant who lives near me.  She is nice enough.  She doesn't speak really good english.  I know she got pregnant and was actually able to go to our neighboring state and apply for Medicaid to pay for her prenatal care and the child after it was born.  And do you know she got Medicaid and I know for a fact she is an illegal immigrant because she told me herself.  I asked and she told me.  When it is possible for someone who is not even in our country legally to obtain government assistance, that is just insane.  What is wrong with our country? 

We don't have to keep it in our homes or our churches.  Freedom of religion covers that too!

I was simply stating that my father has 3 purple hearts and I was a military dependent, living 6 years of my childhood in cold war Germany.  I am tired of the right referring to anyone who does not support the Iraq civil war as "unpatriotic".  I am a soldier's daughter, and I want our troops home, because I do support the troops.

Yes 911 was a terrible terrorist thing.  What does that have to do with Iraq?  Nothing.  Never has, never will. 

as opinions.  Take them or leave them.  Stop bashing others for your benefit.  Sam is above that and doesn't play the bashing game.  Just a strong poster with opinions that don't agree with yours.  You guys are like a pack of wolves.  You are really full of yourselves, aren't you?  Shame on you. 

This is a forum for posting opinions, observations, and finds.  Leave it at that and stop the catfighting.

Liberal Media Bias: MSNBC Falls for Palin Africa/NAFTA Hoax -- But So Does Fox News