Just one small question?
Posted By: gourdpainter on 2008-11-02
In Reply to: With friends like al-Qaida, who needs enemies? - Ivy
What about your tax dollars going to support ILLEGAL aliens? You okay with that? My husband and I paid a little over $15,000 last year in taxes, 85% of our Social Security benefits were taxed because of our other income. I would hardly consider us freeloaders and I wouldn't mind a little tax cut myself. Get real, none of us are going to get a tax cut and all of working (and retired) AMERICAN taxes are going to go up. Thank your Republicans as well as the Democrats. They all put us another $750 billion and counting in debt. Somebody is going to have to pay it or you can start worrying about communism when China forcloses on their loans!!!!!! You people need to take the shades off your eyes.
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I have to take a small exception....
I understand why there was no half staff declaration for Katrina victims and there was for VA Tech. There is a difference in a natural disaster, where loss of life is expected to some degree (not condoned, not accepted, but expected) and a crazy going nuts and murdering 32 people in a heinous horrible bloodbath. I can see why the half-staff for VTech. There has never, as far as I have known, been half-staff for victims of natural disaster, and Hurricane Andrew killed many as well. Although there was no paper half-staff declaration, I did hear personally on many occasions President Bush use some of the same words in talking about the Katrina victims...and he did declare a national day of remembrance for the Katrina victims, which he did not do for the VA Tech victims.
Small and slanted...?
I saw the video. How can a video be small and slanted? It was broadcast on several channels though certainly not CNN. How can that be slanted? A video is what it is. The country producing it did not dispute it, France and Germany did not dispute it. Please tell me how that can be slanted. It is also a fact that they found the intact 747 in the Iraqi desert. That WAS reported on CNN. How can that be slanted? It was there. What possible other purpose could it have to be there? I can see you ignoring a video of two men, but a 747???
You are wrong about the unrest...most of the unrest in Iraq is foreign fighters. If you would watch one of the small and slanted reports as you call them, if only occasionally, you might actually get the BIG picture you keep referring me to. Several of the sectarian fighters have now turned on the foreign fighters instead of each other. Hopefully more of that will occur.
I suppose it will be easy enough for you, if we pull out of Iraq now, to just let the Sunnis and Shias have at it and take all the innocents who just want to work and live with them, aka Viet Nam. For whatever reason, whether you agree with it or not, we are there and the situation is what it is. We can turn tail and run like we did in Viet Nam, or we can finish it.
As to facts to form theories...your facts and theories are no stronger than mine. And again I say...it should not be a far right, a right, a liberal or a far left thing. It should be an American thing. I am an American first. I don't give a good gosh darn about politics. I do give a good gosh darn about this country and keeping it safe for all of us, no matter what direction we lean in. Would that we all felt that way.
I am teaching a small ESL
course in grammar. Two examples I use
President Bush flew BACK from vacation to sign the Terri Schiavo legislation.
President Bush flew OVER the Katrina victims.
It seems to help them understand better.
small business
Me and DH own a small recreation business, and quite frankly, a few years ago, when the gas prices started getting out of control is when our business started hurting. We are taxed individually, not as a corporation, so I don't see anything in O's tax plan that would hurt us. Maybe help us a bit. Most small business owners aren't making a large fortune, those are the big corporations who have so many dam@ loopholes anyway!
Just like you buy his very small relationship with
!!
How about Rev. Otis Small
from Trinity Church (Rev Wright's former church). Obama says he is the wisest man he knows. Oh my gosh, this is beyond scary! Whatup indeed!!!
small message
It's easy to be gracious and appear to reach out to the other side - when you are the winner! I only fear what the OBama masses would have done if their candidate had lost .. a lot more than booing during the concession speech I fear.
I do agree on the republican party comments, however.
But I also think there were a lot of uneducated people who really thought through WHAT OBama said and consider how and when he was actually going to do any them, and even further, exactly how they will be paid for?
oh well. I will support him - he is our new president .. and will also do a lot of praying for our government ..
Small message ..
I will be fair..
I am patriotic ..
I (so far)am guaranteed freedom of speech and the freedom to have ideas of my own ...
I will not sit back and act like he is My Lord and Savior and I should worship his feet or the ground he walks on.
I will give him a chance .. truly
Just my 2 cents.
Small, harmless example
From a journalist, not an opinion personality:
Neil Cavuto:
– We do not pick and choose these rallies and protests. We were there for the Million Man March, even though, as I pointed out, it turned out to be well shy of a million men. [Fox Business, 4/11/09]
and
– You seem to pick and choose what events and protests were worthy. Million Man March, worthy, even though it wasn’t a million men, it was half a million. We covered that because we thought it had a worthy message too. [Fox News, 4/8/09]
Fox News could not possibly have covered the Million Man March.
Breaking out my small violin
I hope by the time you go through any real persecution you will have grown some skin.
And he wasn't after any small change either. I think..sm
the prolife, anti-gay hoopla is just a front for some of em.
Kind of like *yeah yall keep that song and dance going over there, while I get this money over here.*
I live in a very small town. sm
My state is a red state, but my hometown newspaper carries one column and that is Molly Ivins. You don't get much further left than that. I agree.
A couple of small things...
Intolerance is not something I associate with being liberal. Perhaps I need to adjust my thinking.
My compassion extends to all those hurting and in need, just like yours does. However, as you well know and seem so jaded by, one person cannot focus on every area, every part of humanity, every issue. You must choose your issue and throw all your energy into it. I would say that the anti-war arena is pretty well covered, wouldn't you? The anti-abortion arena, however, is not. And that is where I am moved to place my focus. Because there are people affected by war who CAN speak for themselves. They DO have the ability to at least try and protect themselves. Unborn children do not have that luxury. They are totally at the mercy of others, and if you want to talk about a horrendous way to die...there is no more horrendous way to die than being aborted. In a way, it is the ultimate betrayal if someone does not defend the most vulnerable among us. That is why I chose that issue and that is why I will speak out against it with my last breath.
You call me supercilious, yet post something like the nature of conservatism to have lack of empathy? A rather broad brush stroke I would say. How you can criticize something else for having no empathy and turn your back on the unborn...there is NO balance in that to see.
There is no spin, piglet. The facts are obvious. You have chosen to exclude the most needy and vulnerable and even go to the extreme of being highly critical of me for doing so. No spin there.
It is obvious you call things the way you perceive them, and have intolerance for any who do not agree with your perception. Again, that is not a trait I associate with liberals. And again..perhaps I need to adjust my thinking.
No one is asking you to apologize, piglet. These last few posts...amazing. If it were aimed AT liberals I would swear it WAS Ann Coulter. Especially the "I call things the way I perceive them, I don't sugar coat it and I won't apologize for it." VINTAGE Ann Coulter. :-)
She is what small-town America is all about
Loved the speech, love the candidate!!!
Those small-town values are
EXACTLY what the big bad world needs to take it on. Resolute, firm in beliefs, freedom, country first.
As an IC, I'm considered a small business, so
but not really sure which will benefit me the most. ICs must all think like small businesses and consider taxes based on that, not as individual taxpayers.
I actually don't agree with either one on all tax issues, so I'm still on the fence. I doubt Barack will be able to enact and MAINTAIN the tax cuts he has promised. I agree with giving seniors a break on taxes when they are on a limited budget, for example, but Barack has said seniors making less than $50K. That means if they make $49K (which is more than I make, BTW), they don't have to pay ANY taxes?? Lower that amount a tad and I might see it as reasonable, but a senior making more than me, receiving senior discounts, Medicare, etc., and then not having to pay taxes. Seems a little off balance somehow.
And simplifying tax preparation isn't one of my top priorities, I have TurboTax for that. A lot of his other tax proposals pretty much mirror McCain's so I don't see much difference there, like the R&D, small biz, etc. I like his ideas on taxes, but IMO, his website is full of promises that he will have a VERY hard time fulfilling.
I like that Barack addresses credit card practices. I feel this is a BIG problem. Good creditworthy people are getting screwed by shady practices of credit card companies left and right. I don't see where McCain has addressed this.
I like McCain's summer gas tax holiday, lowering gas prices in the summer, since historically, gas prices always climb through summer especially around the holidays. I also like his HOME plan, as this would make the people truly affected by subprime loans eligible to trade their mortgage. But probably what I like most is McCain's view on healthcare - restoring control to the PATIENTS. I know people that live in countries with Government provided healthcare, and they do not have any more control over that than any of us with paid insurance policies do. I feel the only way to change this issue is to crack down on the insurance companies, force their hands to make premiums more affordable, make them honor their premium terms, limit their restrictions on patients and pre-existing conditions, and do not allow them to tell patients what procedures they can and can't have and what doctors they can and can't see.
If it is a small business, then it is exempt from this - nm
x
I agree, it is not everyone, it is actually just a small portion (sm)
of people who are showing their racist bents..the problem is that some of them are angry and dangerous. And I know there are many races in our country but this particular "battle" is between white and black... and it goes both ways.
It is happening now on a small scale....
we have one refundable tax credit now that I know of...the earned income tax credit. What Obama wants to do is expand that dramatically, and that is most definitely new. That credit does not stretch to that entire 30-40% of people who don't pay federal income taxes. Obama's plan WILL. Because those people comprise part of that 30-40%. How can he give a tax CUT to 95% of Americans otherwise? THAT is my point. Why on earth tax small businesses and yes, even large corporations MORE, so you can give people on welfare a refundable tax credit check?? In my opinion, extending refundable tax credits to people already on the government t*t is wrong, wrong, wrong.
Yes, we have a refundable tax credit now that benefits some persons. What Obama proposes is taking that from where the earned income tax credit is all the way to the bottom. That is his starting from the bottom theory. How many times have we heard that?
Not yet. Voting at about 4 p.m. EST. I live in a small
town. We have two separate voting places with 3 machines at each place, so hopefully not a long line, but I will stay there until my vote is in. Cannot wait.
Maybe if small businesses like MT companies
receive a tax credit as a reward/incentive to keep jobs INSIDE the USA, that policy will help American MTs.
That's Obama's policy.
And think of the small business owner...sm
The SBO who has a small staff, who then would have a jump in payroll but no jump in income, unless of course he raises prices, but the SBO already has trouble competing with the huge box/chain stores. Raising the min wage ends up screwing the SBO who are the backbone of free enterprise in this country.
Sure, but I'd rather be in a small room with a caterpillar!
nm
Waterboarding is only a small part...(sm)
of what they have done.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0521-01.htm
How do you assume that my world is small?
How can I believe the rest of your comment and your whole state of mind when you state such nonsense?
What is this supposed to mean, I quote, '....so find a different name to call me?'
I cannot recall having ever met you on this board, Victoria, or whatever your user name is?
I live in small-town America (less than 3,000), and I
We don't believe those with all the cash should get to call all the shots, skip paying taxes, and get rewarded for shipping American jobs to foreign countries.
No, mine doesn't, but many small businesses...
including mid range transcription business who operate as S corporations, the entire income from their business is in that bracket and taxed as personal income. It is going to hit small businesses extremely hard. And I don't think it is fair that they have to pick up the tab to pay for tax CUTS for people who are already in the lowest bracket. I don't think that's right, I don't think that is fair, and it will result in businesses closing or laying off workers. So tell me what pray tell does that accomplish?
small message, church lady...
The most significant thing to me in the entire video is "Vote your conscience." That speaks volumes.
a small town dweller with hemorroids.
nm
By a very small majority. We dems do not march in ...sm
lock-step like the repubs seem to do.
Obama wants to grow small businesses
I can stick my head in the sand and pretend I don't know what this garbage is all about but anyone with half a brain would know you can't grow a business when you continue to pay pay pay through the nose AND give it to someone who has no motivation to do crap with their life.
It's not propaganda. I know one small business owner...sm
who says he will have to do this, should he get over that hurdle of his business growing to being over 250,000, he will then have to pay more taxes under Obama, and won't be able to. I believe him when he tells me this. I've heard other similar stories in the news (and not Joe the plumber either).
Why must you call it propaganda, when some of us know real, live people who run these businesses, who will be forced to cut back on employees, and/or decide not to expand. They won't be able to put money back into their business to grow it because they'll be taxed to death. and may eventually go out of business or go elsewhere, because they won't be able to afford being in business under Obama.
These are real people, with real concerns, not propaganda.
That's why a lot of them are voting for McCain next month.
Moot point and small reminder..
Not ALL democrats voted for Obama, and some wouldn't appreciate your congrats.
I hope you are not that small minded. You may quit your job
any time you like and apply for welfare and see if you get it. Maybe, Bush will let you draw it now.
Speaking of "geography". Israel only has that small
nm
Buried on pg 6 of our newspaper is this small headline
"Congress kills plan to recover bonuses for Wall Street execs." The below link is from the AP press.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/S/STIMULUS_BONUSES?SITE=NCBER&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/S/STIMULUS_WILL_IT_WORK?SITE=NCBER&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
I live in a small town and the others don't start til later.
Yes, I'd call packed to capacity and a total of four of these parties in a town of 25,000 pretty good.
What you're trying to do here is painfully transparent. Stop embarrassing yourself.
Obama wants to give small businesses tax relief not...sm
raise their taxes. He wants taxes raised on large corporations who are making record profits, paying their executives millions in salaries and perks per year. Also you will find that most companies offshore to countries where they pay pennies on the dollar to workers rather than pay Americans a living wage. These countries are happy not to charge them high taxes because those few pennies feed their people.
How can you call it giving small business tax breaks...
that are minute at best, and then raise their personal tax (the money they take care of their families with) at a higher rate? Makes absolutely no sense.
He wants to raise taxes even more on large corporations...who employ what percentage of the US work force? That makes us even less competitive with foreign countries in the labor market. What part of that can you not understand? When you raise their taxes they either offshore or downsize. That is the nature of the beast. And when he says "record profits" you just buy that and he won't give specifics, because if he did, you would see the fallacy of the thinking. What he needs to be reporting is the profit margin...not the "profit." It costs multimillions to operate an oil company. And "big oil" is a major employer and a huge part of many states' economies...Oklahoma, Texas, Alaska, to name a few. Oil companies and the companies that provide goods and services to oil companies...HUGE part of the nation's economy. Do all the employees of oil companies and the companies that provide goods and services to oil companies...do all of them deserve to get the ax because the people at the top of the chain make a lot of money?
You should check out what the big union higer-ups make. Certainly more than their members will ever see. But you don't hear Democrats talking about disparity in income in unions, now do you?
10% across-the-board. Rich or poor. Big company or small.
X
So, if you buy this "very small relationship with Acorn in 1982" ....sm
ergo, from Obama's own mouth: "My executive experience is from being a community organizer (with Acorn)" --
Now, that sounds to me, from your post, that he was involved with a group called "Project Vote" --
Let's connect the dots here.....kinda sorta like the scandal hitting the fans lately with all the voter registration fraud that Acorn's involved with now, doncha think?
Sounds like what Obama was doing, way back in 1982?
Nice executive experience.
Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.....like I'm going to be sick again.....
we had a small business, you deduc everything including the kit sink! sm
coming out 250K after deductions you are sitting pretty. Deductions include payroll, etc. You are the owner of a company and with clear earnings after deductions of 250K you are better off than the majority of families in the US.
We lost the first soldier from our small town here in Alabama this week, sm
and there was an article in yesterday's paper about a reverand who was going to protest at the ceremony, but due to community outrange I think this has been halted.
most "BIG" dealers do not use - the small time ones do - they deal to get money for their own
x
Governing a very small population is different from being VP of an entire country...still no compari
sorry...baby with special needs should come first. I know if I had a special needs baby I would stop working for a while to care for that baby. The baby needs special care, it's not a baby you can just dump on just anybody.
Why on earth? Small person, tiny brain, no power,
x
Combined income or small business making 120,000 or higher
will be taxed big time instead of the 250,000. It could down lower to where anyone making 42,000 or higher will be taxed big time. He keeps changing his mind, but we will for sure see if he wins.
With the stimulus package there are built in tax credits for small businesses and SBA...sm
I have worked in retail as an assistant buyer and see their profit margins...and I know there are many legit, honest, mom and pop stores, but they usually make up for it by hiring school kids for slave wages and also family members. I am talking about across the board, in factories, retail, hospitalitiy, techno, every sector, these workers would all be paying more EACH WEEK into the the tax stucture in this country, strengtheing our reserves, becomeing consumers themselves because they can finally afford something....I feel like I dropped from another planet here, or industry in MT is not the norm by far.
What dribble and so uninformed, he isn't taking money from small businesses, geez.
Common sense should tell you he is not saying he is taking the money from small business to give to the the middle class.
he is saying he wants to tax fairly the wealthy (businesses over 250,000) and probably take some of the loop holes away. Lower the middle class taxes (if there is one anymore) so we can breathe. Former statesmen have said it is dangerous to put all the money in so few hands, it develops corruption. Don't just read the headlines, read between, on top, in depth, etc. McCain jumped on that statement to win votes. He is wealthy, what makes you think he understands you? The reason our jobs are going overseas is the present adminstration has given all these corporations tax breaks to do so - saying it builds global democracy - it didn't work, it just made the corporations richer). i don't care who you vote for but Ms. Piggy would be better than McCain and dum, DE dum dum.
Yet we get on this board and moan and whine about not getting paid enough and companies are spening millions buying other transcription companies over our backs you think taxing them fairly is socialism.
I am through with this board, it is sad so many want 4 more years of the same. Keep working for pennies while benefits are taken from you, lines per are decreased. Do you think getting less for voice is fair when it takes almost the same amount of time to do it and make half? Do you think the company is taking that much of a hit? Yet they are forcing it so it most be a benefit to them. They are laughing all the way to the bank while you eat the feathers.
Production of a Certificate of Live Birth is a very small price to pay for unity...
Is Barack Obama a U.S. citizen?"
Of course he is, dummy..
"But how do you know?"
Well for starters, he posted his birth certificate on his website. Not to mention, the Director of Health for the State of Hawaii released a statement saying he was born in Hawaii . Also, factcheck.org (a non-partisan and highly credible political fact checking website) investigated it heavily and validated, beyond doubt, that the birth certificate he posted was real. Did I mention that if there were an actual conspiracy surrounding this...it would have to be 47 years in the making? That's right, read it and weep: his birth announcement was posted in a Hawaii newspaper way back in 1961! But if you're really not sure, just remember there have been court cases challenging his citizenship, and every one of them was laughed off the docket.
"That's all pretty compelling. But I got this email that said...."
The email you got is just a crazy, internet-born rumor. It's nothing but a desperate attempt to discredit him. Trust me.
"Yeah, I'm sure you're right...."
Sound familiar? I've personally had a similar conversation several times, but mine ends differently.
"Well for starters, he posted his birth certificate on his website."
Really? Well humor me, because I think this is important enough for us to get our facts straight. So let's explore that. Hawaii doesn't issue "birth certificates". The state offers "Certificates of Live Birth" and "Certifications of Live Birth." What Barack Obama has posted on his website is a "Certification of Live Birth." So let's talk about the difference between the two documents. As you probably know, the document we commonly refer to as a "birth certificate" (more formally called a Certificate of Live Birth) is packed with detail. Detail like the hospital you were born in, the doctor who delivered you along with his/her signature, etc. It looks like a tax form with all the boxes and everything. The Certification of Live Birth is really just a snapshot of that. So which one is more credible? Which one does the state of Hawaii give the "last word" to? Based on information that existed long before this issue came up, let's take a look at one example of what the state of Hawaii has to say on it:
"In order to process your application, DHHL utilizes information that is found only on the original Certificate of Live Birth, which is either black or green. This is a more complete record of your birth than the Certification of Live Birth (a computer-generated printout). Submitting the original Certificate of Live Birth will save you time and money since the computer-generated Certification requires additional verification by DHHL." ( http://hawaii.gov/dhhl/applicants/appforms/applyhhl ).
So if the state of Hawaii itself doesn't accept "Certifications of Live Birth" as a last leg of verification, it's safe to say there's a pretty solid distinction we too can make when comparing a Certificate to a Certification. What Barack Obama posted, was a Certification. What people want to see, is the Certificate. When you say he "posted his birth certificate" on his website, the truth (painful as it may be to hear) is that he posted a much different document that if accurately described, would be a "birth certification" - which is far less credible and far easier to alter.
"That's pretty lean. It's not really a big deal to me because I know it's just a rumor. But still, if you're going to insist there's a question here, I have to tell you....the state of Hawaii released a statement saying he was born in Hawaii . They have the 'Certificate' you're talking about, and they proved it was authentic. Are you saying they're in on this crazy conspiracy?"
I'm not saying they're involved in a conspiracy, or even that one exists. But I'm not sure you can honestly say you actually read that statement. Here, take a look:
Director of Health for the State of Hawaii , Chiyome Fukino: "There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama's official birth certificate. State law (Hawai'i Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record. Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai'i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai'i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama's original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures. No state official, including Governor Linda Lingle, has ever instructed that this vital record be handled in a manner different from any other vital record in the possession of the State of Hawai'i."
Now you tell me, where in that statement does it say anything about where he was born? Public officials are very careful when they release these statements. They carve their words out precisely and check and double check to make sure what they release is accurate and viable. I have to be honest, it wasn't until this statement came out that I became more concerned by the citizenship question. If you actually read it, it's plain to see that as it relates to his birth, the statement really only "proves" 3 things: 1) Barack Obama was born, 2) proof of that birth exists on paper, and 3) their office is in receipt of that paper. An official statement with a lot of affirmatives about requirements and procedures means nothing if they can't find the words, "originating from Hawaii " or "was born in Honolulu " or "as documented in the Certification he has already released". Now maybe it was an accident that Dr. Fukino was able to authenticate virtually every scrap of it's existence - except the part everyone is asking about. However, pressed on this, there has been ample opportunity for her to revise or expand her statement, and she still to this day has not done so.
"Wait a minute, Hank. Didn't factcheck.org already investigate this whole thing. You're just grasping at straws. What do you know, that they don't?!"
I guess the first thing I'd tell you is that, on this particular subject, factcheck has already missed a lot of "facts", and even created a few of their own. You know that statement we just read from Hawaii 's Director of Health? Well this is what factcheck had to say about it: "Department of Health confirmed Oct. 31 that Obama was born in Honolulu " ( http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html ). Did you see that in the statement? I didn't. If this site's only claim is to report facts in a non-partisan manner, how much credibility can we really give them when they start making up their own, very partisan and very inaccurate facts? They also failed to make the distinction between the Certificate and the Certification. And to be fair, factcheck.org is a product of the Annenberg Foundation. You may remember, Barack Obama worked for Annenberg as a spoke in their umbrella. If you look at the actual facts, this is a slight conflict of interest on factcheck.org's part - which might help to explain their not having met their own obligation of getting the facts right. An accident on their part? Maybe. But they too have had plenty of time to correct it, but chose instead to close the book on this one...fabricated facts and all.
"Look....if there was any truth to this, it would have meant that Barack's parents and a Hawaiian newspaper were in on it too. And they were in on it 47 years ago! There's a birth announcement in a Hawaiian newspaper for crying out loud."
Okay now this is one of my favorites. So now rather than authenticating citizenship by way of formal, long-form, vault copies of actual Certificates of Live Birth - we are relying on birth announcements in newspapers? Let me ask you something: If you and your wife live in Ohio , but you gave birth while visiting Florida , is there a legal or logical premise that says you're bound to put that birth announcement in a Floridian newspaper? Or, would you likely send news of the birth back home, to your town-of-residence, where more friends and family would see the good news? If Barack Obama was born outside of the U.S. , there doesn't have to be a "conspiracy" for his family to have sent word of that birth back to their hometown newspaper.
"Hmm. Okay. Well newsflash Hank. This has already been challenged in court and the judges dismissed it as frivolous and ridiculous."
Actually, this has been heard in a handful of courts. The judges by-in-large dismissed the cases, you're right. But the majorative reason was not merit, but rather standing. "Standing", as an act of dismissal in the courts, is a technicality. The judges said that individual citizens did not have standing to ask that the Constitution be upheld. This raises a pretty clear question: If "We The People" don't have standing to ask that the contract we hold with our government be upheld (ie the Constitution), who does? There are several other cases still pending; at least 12 confirmed. One of those is actually active on the Supreme Court's docket, as we speak. Another has been brought in California by 2008 candidate for the Presidency, Alan Keyes...and several of California 's electors (members of the electoral college who will officially vote our President in on December 15, 2008).
I don't think too many grounded people could say, "I know the answer." For instance, I am not saying Barack Obama is not a natural born citizen. I'm not saying he was born in Kenya . I'm not saying he renounced his U.S. citizenship when he moved to Indonesia and attended school there (a right reserved only to Indonesian citizens - in a country that didn't recognize any dual citizenship.) I'm not saying that due to his father's citizenship at a time when Kenya was still part of the British empire , Barack, as a son, was automatically and exclusively afforded British citizenship. I'm not saying the video footage of his Kenyan grandmother claiming to have been in the delivery room, in Kenya , when he was born, is necessarily "evidence." I'm also not saying he was born in Hawaii . What I'm saying is, none of us have these answers. I'm saying, there is an outstanding question here - that only Barack Obama can answer. And rather than answer it, having promised a new sense of transparency throughout his campaign, his course of action has been to spend time, money and the resources of at least 3 separate law firms....fighting to keep any and all documentation off the discovery table and out of the courtroom. It is a well known legal fact that if you have documentation/evidence that will help you - you are quick to produce it. If that documentation will hurt you, however, you fight to keep it out of court. Let's be fair. He was quick and happy to give documentation he claimed validated and authenticated his citizenship to a website - but is fighting to keep that same documentation out of the courts. If that document really does authenticate and validate everything, why not just hand it over? Why fight?
"Alright Hank. Well MY question is, if there was any validity to this, why isn't the media covering it?"
I have no idea.
As an Independent and initial Barack Obama supporter, I can safely say that contrary to what many think, asking these questions is not an attempt by Republicans to win a technicality-laden seat in the White House. Republicans lost. They were due the loss. Most know that. The seat will ultimately go to a Democrat. But if there is truth to Barack Obama not being able to formally prove his a) natural born, and/or b) properly maintained citizenship statuses - we as Americans must not gloss past it. If there is truth to it, this will represent the greatest fraud ever perpetrated on the American people and our most coveted process of democracy. If there is truth to it, this will demonstrate a wanton and relentless pursuit for power which left President-Elect Obama trapsing all over our Constitution - in pursuit of a position that ironically and foremost swears him to uphold and protect that same document.
There is much unanswered here. I know it is very embarassing for the Democratic party to have allowed what might be such an incredibly elementary oversight to occur - but nothing good that Barack Obama might do in the next 4-8 years, will be able to repair the damage done by setting a precedent that affords anyone in our Country the room and right to trample the contract "We The People" hold with our government, let alone a person who is asking to be our next President.
"Everyone will riot if they kick him out." We can't be intimidated by that. The people of our country elected a black man for the Presidency. Nothing can change that. If it turns out his entire campaign and effort were based on fraud, that reality is still 100% independent of the color-blind lenses our nation took to the polls. So if we bow down to the potential for race riots - recognizing that we did in fact (perhaps ignorantly relating to his eligibility) initially vote for him, we are only fostering a new evolution of racism that is nurtured by intimidation and complicit with failing to incite accountability over a man, people and process - simply based on color.
Very few people know any of this is even occurring. Those who do are greatly divided. Some are sure Barack Obama has acted fraudulently, some are sure he hasn't. Neither group can be sure of anything though, until Barack Obama himself answers the question for us. We all show our "birth certificates" (Certificates of Live Birth) several times over the course of our lives. Why should someone running for the Presidency be an exeption to that expectation, or even a more fiercely vetted recipient of it? More questionably, how can we as a government, media and nation - allow someone running for the Presidency to be an exception to that expectation?
The behavior, mostly (to my personal dismay) for his part, has only fueled speculation. Why factcheck.org? Why not a governing body like the Federal Election Commission, Board of Elections or even the DNC? When a governing body did finally inject itself in to this matter, why were they only able to do so vaguely...leaving the real question entirely untouched and unanswered? Why spend more than $800K fighting this in court, at a time when our nation is in economic crisis and that money could be better spent in far more charitable ways; when it could ultimately and universally be resolved for the small $12.00 fee required by Hawaii for a copy of the actual Certificate of Live Birth? In the spirit of transparency, why refuse to release this basic document for inspection? In the spirit of unity, why leave so many Americans alienated and debating the matter - when all most of them want is affirmation so that people on both sides of the debate can move to more healthy and productive lines of communication?
It was opinionated that he had left this door open prior to the election, so that those who opposed him would be led down a blind and pointless alley. The general election is over though. And still, he offers nothing to end the speculation.
By the time I am done with the conversation I outlined above, those I am speaking with inevitably return to what I have typically found to be their first and last refutation....
"He must have been properly vetted. Right....?"
I don't know. And without support for that contention coming directly from the Federal Election Commission, the Board of Elections or (ideally) Barack Obama himself, neither does anyone else.
"This is ridiculous" doesn't count as a refutation. Simply, answer the question with the simple documentation that is being asked of you in double digit numbers of court rooms across the country, including the Supreme Court. It may go away. It may be dismissed again based on standing. But President-Elect Obama's refusal to quell what have become very real questions about this, will only serve to leave many good Americans who hope to vigorously support their President...with far too much doubt to be able to do so. Production of a Certificate of Live Birth is a very small price to pay for unity.
http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-156768
O.K. friend, I LOVE tax reform for the wealthier bunch, the small fry like us have been shouldering
too much of the burden for many, many years, I love the cut-off for those making over 250K....hey, if we were bringing in that $$$ we would be happy and spreading it around (don't mean the manure,either!). We need stronger immigration reform FOR SURE, it is a touchy subject, especially in states like mine with a large immigrant population, but they just held a huge, large, angry rally on the State House steps becaue they don't want families broken up by sending the illegals back. Sorry, as a grandchild of immigrants who came here, assimmilated, learned, worked hard, payed taxes,and became PROUD AMERICANS, I feel strongly this is the right and only way and our president should enforce this. They are called "illegal" for a reason.
There are too many "Pet Projects" in states where the reps helped fund the Obamaa campaign, and these investments will not have a long term good for the country, we need programs that will directly affet the economy and the Americal worker ASAP. I believe he is forging ahead too quickly and blindly with relations with Syria, a known hot spot for extremists and terrorists, although I believe in the old addage "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer," and I think that is what he is doing with Hillary going to Asia and Southeast Asia and opening talks with Syria and Korea. All in all, I just want to give this honest man a chance to get going on some things, see some of the results and go from there before I open mouth and insert foot!!!
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