Protests going on all over France like this.
Posted By: only getting worse. nm on 2009-05-01
In Reply to: Yes, it is from 2007 and says the same as those from 2008 - where is a link showing bankrupt? - lall
http://www.nj.com/newsflash/index.ssf?/base/international-2/124092166956780.xml&storylist=health
Complete Discussion Below:  marks the location of current message within thread
The messages you are viewing
are archived/old.
To view latest messages and participate in discussions, select
the boards given in left menu
Other related messages found in our database
Protests.
March 17, 2007 thousands of anti-war protesters will participate in a march in D.C. set to start at The Wall and work to the Pentagon. It will be led by Cindy Sheehan, Jane Fonda, Ramsey Clark, and probably a few other hollywood glitterarti. American protesters and their allies in the liberal news media have been comparing our military operations in Iraq to the Viet Nam War for a long time. I'm beginning to see their point.
I'm worried that our war against Islamic fundamentalism in Iraq is going to turn into Viet Nam, by which I mean that once the U.S. leaves, millions of people will lose any hope of freedom and democracy and a dangerous and violent ideology will have gained ground in the world, all because irresponsible and misinformed liberals turned public opinion against the war and encouraged our enemies.
If you want to protest a war before it starts in order to try and influence the government's decision to go to war, that's one thing. It's another thing entirely to root for America's defeat in the middle of a war. If U.S. troops pulled out of Iraq now, there'd be nothing else to call it but defeat. Anti-war protesters have a number of arguments to defend themselves with, but the bottom line is that our boys, and these days, our girls too, are over there trying to win a war. If you're protesting this war, you're not helping.
One of the first arguments you'll hear from the anti-war crowd is that political protest is a patriotic exercise of their constitutional rights. I'm not denying that it's their right. Just because something is legal under the Supreme Court's latest interpretation of the Constitution, it doesn't mean that it is morally OK - eminent domain, anyone? And protesting a war while your country is fighting it is not patriotic by any stretch. I don't understand how you can love your country so much that you want it to lose a war and will march in the streets demanding that it surrender.
Another argument you'll hear is that Cindy Sheehan and others who have lost children in Iraq have absolute moral authority, as New York Times columnist Maureen Dowd put it. One wonders if Ms. Dowd believes that pro-war activists who have lost children in Iraq have the same absolute moral authority. God has absolute moral authority. Human beings do not. To publicly denounce the very ideals that these men died fighting for, however, is to dishonor their sacrifices. Casey Sheehan, like many of the men and women in our all-volunteer army, believed strongly in what he was fighting for. While it's impossible to know what he would have wanted, I think it's safe to guess that Casey Sheehan would not have wanted anyone, no less his own mother, to use the spotlight of his heroism and his death to say that the cause he believed in, enough so that he was willing to give his life for it, was unjust.
The most powerful argument the anti-war protesters have on their side is their genuine concern for our men and women serving in uniform. They can't support the troops without supporting the war, but they care about our soldiers so much that they want them to come home safely, and as soon as possible, even before their job is done. Call me naive, but I do believe that some anti-war activists sincerely mean well. That being said, keep in mind what road is paved with good intentions.
Whether they are doing it intentionally or not, anti-war protesters are hurting our side and helping the enemy. Jim Mueller, the new national commander of the Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States, said that anti-war protesters will eventually devastate troop morale, just like they did in the 1960s. Mueller remarked, Morale means everything on the field of battle, but good morale starts at home, and that's why the [Veterans of Foreign Wars] is so concerned with this upcoming protest.
Anti-war protesters don't just lower the morale of our own troops; they boost the morale of our enemy. According to the organization Accuracy In Media, soldiers who have come back from Iraq have reported that anti-war protests help the enemy fight harder. In the 1960s, the North Vietnamese knew that anti-war protests were helping them win the war. James Stockdale, a real American hero who might be best known as Ross Perot's 1992 running mate, recalls an interrogation he endured in 1966 when he was a prisoner of war in Vietnam. His captor, Nguyen Khac Vien, said to him, Our country has no capability to defeat you on the battlefield. Vien's next words became an immortal slogan of the enemy. He added, We will win this war on the streets of New York.
I need to clarify one final point and then I am done with this. I have to tell you, some of the remarks here have caused me great worry and torment. I don't think everyone has to support the war, but no one should undermine troop morale by protesting. There is certainly room for academic debate about whether or not it was the right choice to go to war. I think it's wrong to protest in the middle of a war, but I also believe that before and after the war, it is important for there to be a serious and critical discussion of American foreign policy. But when anti-war protesters call for America's defeat during the war, they're undermining our mission and supporting our enemies. Even if they have the best intentions, anti-war activists aren't doing anyone any favors. The more difficult they make it for our soldiers to do their job, the longer it's going to take before they can come home. In that sense, it definitely is another Viet Nam.
Protests are good
The past is the past, the present is the present. Clinton was protested, good..who cares, not I..Now that Bush is being protested, good thing too..I, unlike some republicans I have met in my life time, do not defend just because someone is democrat..I have voted republican in the past..not a presidential election but local elections..I am a registered independent..I try to observe and decide both sides of the issue..It just happens that this administration, IMHO, is corrupt to the max with a president that is inept. You will see, when we finally get someone else in the WH..be it republican or democrat, I will probably be moaning and groaning about that person too..I call em as I see em.
There are protests, they just go unreported. sm
My cousin in Ireland gave me a heads up to an antiwar protest in DC that reported thousands of people. Here, they reported it like there was a couple of freaks with signs, or did not report it at all.
The day the report came back Pat Tillman was killed, possibly executed by his own men, and covered up they decided to distract everyone with the Paris Hilton goes to jail story all day.
ACORN Protests around the country
They're telling people whose homes are up for foreclosure to stay in their homes even if they are taken off to jail.
A spokesperson for the group believes that everyone should get new mortgages, even those that are in homes that they can't afford. (I've been trying to find that article.)
http://salsa.wiredforchange.com/o/2749/t/3071/signUp.jsp?key=2134
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/10/AR2009021001271.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/18/nyregion/18foreclose.html?_r=2&ref=nyregion
"Tea Party" protests
Planned "Tea Party" protests.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,510129,00.html
Anti Gay (and USA) Protests to Hit Key West
I read a daily blog on Key West real estate and today's posting happened to be on a slightly different subject.
Apparently Fred Phelps and his minions are planning on a trip to Key West to demonstrate their hate of not only gay people but the USA.
Can we take them down as the terrorist organization they are yet? One of his cohorts is already down there:
====================================================
The Key West community will meet tonight to decide whether -- and if so, how -- to respond to a nationally infamous man who hates homosexuals.
The Rev. Fred Phelps, head of the Westboro Baptist Church in Kansas, is scheduled to be in Key West on May 22 to protest the Gay/Straight Alliance at Key West High School. Phelps also is planning to demonstrate at the entrance to the island, in front of Sigsbee Park and at B'Nai Zion synagogue, according to a letter Phelps' daughter sent to Police Chief Donie Lee.
The group is planning an outdoor demonstration "regarding the judgment of God with respect to the dangers of promoting homosexuality, and the rest of the filthy manner of life and idol worshipping in this country," the letter states. The city does not require a permit for such assemblies.
Phelps' church is not recognized by mainstream Baptists and is monitored by the Anti-Defamation League as a hate group. His "church" comprises mostly his family members, about 60 of whom are said to protest three times a day, with signs that read, "God Hates Fags" and other anti-homosexual slurs. The church also protests at military funerals, claiming the deaths are the result of America's tolerance of homosexuality.
The Rev. Joe McMurray, pastor of the gay-friendly Metropolitan Community Church, where tonight's meeting will be held, said he does not think that Anthony Charles Capo Jr., who often holds a sign that says "God Hates Fags.com" on Key West street corners, is formally connected with the Kansas group.
Meeting organizers will solicit ideas from community members and law enforcement officials, said McMurray. The gathering will include the police chief, Schools Superintendent Randy Acevedo and some city commissioners.
"We can come together and decide if there will be a response, and what it would be," McMurray said. "We'll also hear from law enforcement to see what they prefer in the interest of public safety."
The Police Department is developing an operational plan for Phelps' demonstration, but Lee emphasized that the general public should ignore Phelps.
"I know it's difficult and I know, firsthand, that it's an emotional issue, but as far as I'm concerned, that's the way to deal with it," said Lee, who is gay. Any demonstrations from counter-protesters would only make it more difficult for officers to keep the peace, Lee said.
Phelps' First Amendment rights allow him and his followers to express their opinions, and the police cannot arrest them for doing so.
Lee explained that if someone says something that directly creates a public safety issue, then the situation changes. He used the example of someone yelling "fire" in a crowded theater as an example that would jeopardize public safety and therefore be an arrestable offense.
"Short of that, people have the right to express their opinion," Lee said.
McMurray said he does not know what prompted Phelps to target the high school group in a town known for its acceptance of gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered people, and its official motto of "One Human Family."
"I don't know if anybody has the 'why' behind Fred Phelps," McMurray said. "He wants to come disrupt, create unease and disturb the peace in a peace-loving community, and he raises money by suing municipalities who violate his civil rights during protests. He intimidates communities."
McMurray and others hope to hear ideas that would turn Phelps' protest into something positive for the community. One option would be a fundraiser for every hour that Phelps is here. People could make an hourly pledge to local charities such as AIDS Help and the Gay and Lesbian Community Center, so the longer Phelps remained in town, the more money he would help raise for gay-friendly service organizations.
"This cannot be personal," said McMurray, who is gay. "Once it becomes personal, we're operating on his level."
J.T. Thompson, a graphic designer who founded the "One Human Family" movement, emphasized that confrontation with Phelps and his group will not serve any purpose.
"This guy earns a living making confrontations happen," Thompson said. "It will be a good day in the fact that we can unite people here. The meeting will gather input to unite the community in a peaceful, positive and loving response."
Protests at Tiller's funeral.
We are all entitled to our opinions about abortion but for God sakes people....why do we feel the need to protest at someone's funeral. Isn't the family going through enough. Their loved one was gunned down and now you are protesting at his funeral. I'm pro-life and these protests at his funeral upset even me. It is hard enough attending a funeral service of a loved one without this added drama and craziness.
France is burning.
Radical fundamentalist Muslims are rotting Europe from the inside out. They know it and they are actually starting to admit it. But their country had to burn before they took their cowardly unappreciative heads out of their hairy armpits. France especially should be ashamed of their actions. If ever a country should show some appreciation for the tens of thousands who died to liberate them...but then, they are French. The only country in the world where every citizen can say *I surrender* in ten different languages. Phooey on them.
More on that note....France, that non...
judgmental open-minded country....their Prez says France cannot accept Burqas...this is just part of it....PARIS — President Nicolas Sarkozy said the Muslim burqa would not be welcome in France, calling the full-body religious gown a sign of the "debasement" of women.
In the first presidential address to parliament in 136 years, Sarkozy faced critics who fear the burqa issue could stigmatize France's Muslims and said he supported banning the garment from being worn in public.
"In our country, we cannot accept that women be prisoners behind a screen, cut off from all social life, deprived of all identity," Sarkozy said to extended applause at the Chateau of Versailles, southwest of Paris.
"The burqa is not a religious sign, it's a sign of subservience, a sign of debasement — I want to say it solemnly," he said. "It will not be welcome on the territory of the French Republic."
Hmmmm. Oh my. Muslims world wide (not to mention the 5 million that live in France) are going to LOVE that.
And people say WE aren't open-minded? LOL. Where is the French version of the ACLU?? Hey...they can borrow ours. HEY, Sarkozy...take THEM ALL. :-) lol
France is getting universal healthcare right...
Great post piglet. I so agree with what you all had to say in support of changing our current system. Canada probably has the worst universal healthcare system, and yet the average Canadian lives 3 years longer than the average American. People always point to the flaws in their system and just assume that we will make all the same mistakes. Of course their system has flaws, just as our system has many fatal flaws. England and France actually have great universal healthcare systems. Here is an article I found about France's successful program:
"France's model healthcare system
By Paul V. Dutton | August 11, 2007
MANY advocates of a universal healthcare system in the United States look to Canada for their model. While the Canadian healthcare system has much to recommend it, there's another model that has been too long neglected. That is the healthcare system in France.
Although the French system faces many challenges, the World Health Organization rated it the best in the world in 2001 because of its universal coverage, responsive healthcare providers, patient and provider freedoms, and the health and longevity of the country's population. The United States ranked 37.
The French system is also not inexpensive. At $3,500 per capita it is one of the most costly in Europe, yet that is still far less than the $6,100 per person in the United States.
An understanding of how France came to its healthcare system would be instructive in any renewed debate in the United States.
That's because the French share Americans' distaste for restrictions on patient choice and they insist on autonomous private practitioners rather than a British-style national health service, which the French dismiss as "socialized medicine." Virtually all physicians in France participate in the nation's public health insurance, Sécurité Sociale.
Their freedoms of diagnosis and therapy are protected in ways that would make their managed-care-controlled US counterparts envious. However, the average American physician earns more than five times the average US wage while the average French physician makes only about two times the average earnings of his or her compatriots. But the lower income of French physicians is allayed by two factors. Practice liability is greatly diminished by a tort-averse legal system, and medical schools, although extremely competitive to enter, are tuition-free. Thus, French physicians enter their careers with little if any debt and pay much lower malpractice insurance premiums.
Nor do France's doctors face the high nonmedical personnel payroll expenses that burden American physicians. Sécurité Sociale has created a standardized and speedy system for physician billing and patient reimbursement using electronic funds.
It's not uncommon to visit a French medical office and see no nonmedical personnel. What a concept. No back office army of billing specialists who do daily battle with insurers' arcane and constantly changing rules of payment.
Moreover, in contrast to Canada and Britain, there are no waiting lists for elective procedures and patients need not seek pre-authorizations. In other words, like in the United States, "rationing" is not a word that leaves the lips of hopeful politicians. How might the French case inform the US debate over healthcare reform?
National health insurance in France stands upon two grand historical bargains -- the first with doctors and a second with insurers.
Doctors only agreed to participate in compulsory health insurance if the law protected a patient's choice of practitioner and guaranteed physicians' control over medical decision-making. Given their current frustrations, America's doctors might finally be convinced to throw their support behind universal health insurance if it protected their professional judgment and created a sane system of billing and reimbursement.
French legislators also overcame insurance industry resistance by permitting the nation's already existing insurers to administer its new healthcare funds. Private health insurers are also central to the system as supplemental insurers who cover patient expenses that are not paid for by Sécurité Sociale. Indeed, nearly 90 percent of the French population possesses such coverage, making France home to a booming private health insurance market.
The French system strongly discourages the kind of experience rating that occurs in the United States, making it more difficult for insurers to deny coverage for preexisting conditions or to those who are not in good health. In fact, in France, the sicker you are, the more coverage, care, and treatment you get. Would American insurance companies cut a comparable deal?
Like all healthcare systems, the French confront ongoing problems. Today French reformers' number one priority is to move health insurance financing away from payroll and wage levies because they hamper employers' willingness to hire. Instead, France is turning toward broad taxes on earned and unearned income alike to pay for healthcare.
American advocates of mandates on employers to provide health insurance should take note. The link between employment and health security is a historical artifact whose disadvantages now far outweigh its advantages. Economists estimate that between 25 and 45 percent of the US labor force is now job-locked. That is, employees make career decisions based on their need to maintain affordable health coverage or avoid exclusion based on a preexisting condition.
Perhaps it's time for us to take a closer look at French ideas about healthcare reform. They could become an import far less "foreign" and "unfriendly" than many here might initially imagine."
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial...lthcare_system/
I thought it was working in France? nm
.
Why should I comment on France - or avoid doing so?
We're not France. It's not like you can take a system from one culture and parachute it into another culture. This isn't Leggos, or buying off-the-rack clothes.
There are many, many factors to take into account when a society fashions something like government-paid healthcare because it will impact, and be impacted by, that society in many ways. We don't have the same culture that France has, we don't have the same tax rates, we have a different healthcare delivery system in place, and on it goes.
No, I won't be commenting about France, except to say that I watched an extensive documentary about government health systems around the world and neither England, Canada, France or Sweden were rated very highly in terms of efficiency or patient satisfaction. Japan's system was considered the best on most metrics, so if anything I would comment on that system - which I won't do either for the reasons mentioned above.
I agree. If not for the US, France would be speaking German. nm
nm
Have you studied the healthcare system in France?
I have not seen you remark on it once. It seems you are avoiding it. The young person who opts out is not an issue.
Yep...and today he is holding a town hall in France...
yukking it up with Europe as his own country circles the drain....pittiiiffullll.
No. Latest news is that costs for France rising too
nm
Let me try this again. You're demanding that I comment about France for some reason.
Have it your way, though. I certainly have better things to do. Our side of this conversation is over. I'll continue to discuss this with others who don't have a "French fixation" though.
Protests erupt in Iraq in support of shoe-throwing reporter
http://www.adnkronos.com/AKI/English/Politics/?id=3.0.2815505803
Amen to that, I heard on Glenn BeEck to watch out for Acorn protests.nm
xxx
U.S., France join in cease-fire call in Lebanon war..sm
So we are back bumping elbows with France. If only we would have taken their advice on Iraq too.
|
