Protests erupt in Iraq in support of shoe-throwing reporter

• Throwing Shoes at President Bush - catz
  • Protests erupt in Iraq in support of shoe-throwing reporter - .......
    • The protesters, who were reportedly made up of followers of radical Shia cleric Moqtada al-Sadr... - sm
      • Fails to explain the support he is getting from - .......
  • W's clueless response is equally as disturbing. - (sm)
  • I think everyone in THIS country should take off their - shoes and throw them at him, as well!
    • Catz - orangeorange
    • Can't afford it. Only own 2 pair. LOL (nm) - Backwards typist
  • Speaking of shoes, I'd (NOT) like to walk... - Marmann
    • waling a mile in their shoes - orangeorange
    • Hope they bring charges against him for war crimes. - (sm)
      • Just wait and see what happens a few years down the road. (nm) - Backwards typist

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http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-allsaints7nov07,0,592419,full.story?coll=la-home-headlines

Antiwar Sermon Brings IRS Warning

All Saints Episcopal Church in Pasadena risks losing its tax-exempt status because of a former rector's remarks in 2004.

By Patricia Ward Biederman and Jason Felch
Times Staff Writers

November 7, 2005

The Internal Revenue Service has warned one of Southern California's largest and most liberal churches that it is at risk of losing its tax-exempt status because of an antiwar sermon two days before the 2004 presidential election.

Rector J. Edwin Bacon of All Saints Episcopal Church in Pasadena told many congregants during morning services Sunday that a guest sermon by the church's former rector, the Rev. George F. Regas, on Oct. 31, 2004, had prompted a letter from the IRS.

In his sermon, Regas, who from the pulpit opposed both the Vietnam War and 1991's Gulf War, imagined Jesus participating in a political debate with then-candidates George W. Bush and John Kerry. Regas said that good people of profound faith could vote for either man, and did not tell parishioners whom to support.

But he criticized the war in Iraq, saying that Jesus would have told Bush, Mr. President, your doctrine of preemptive war is a failed doctrine. Forcibly changing the regime of an enemy that posed no imminent threat has led to disaster.

On June 9, the church received a letter from the IRS stating that a reasonable belief exists that you may not be tax-exempt as a church … The federal tax code prohibits tax-exempt organizations, including churches, from intervening in political campaigns and elections.

The letter went on to say that our concerns are based on a Nov. 1, 2004, newspaper article in the Los Angeles Times and a sermon presented at the All Saints Church discussed in the article.

The IRS cited The Times story's description of the sermon as a searing indictment of the Bush administration's policies in Iraq and noted that the sermon described tax cuts as inimical to the values of Jesus.

As Bacon spoke, 1984 Nobel Peace Prize winner Archbishop Desmond Tutu, a co-celebrant of Sunday's Requiem Eucharist, looked on.

We are so careful at our church never to endorse a candidate, Bacon said in a later interview.

One of the strongest sermons I've ever given was against President Clinton's fraying of the social safety net.

Telephone calls to IRS officials in Washington, D.C., and Los Angeles were not returned.

On a day when churches throughout California took stands on both sides of Proposition 73, which would bar abortions for minors unless parents are notified, some at All Saints feared the politically active church had been singled out.

I think obviously we were a bit shocked and dismayed, said Bob Long, senior warden for the church's oversight board. We felt somewhat targeted.

Bacon said the church had retained the services of a Washington law firm with expertise in tax-exempt organizations.

And he told the congregation: It's important for everyone to understand that the IRS concerns are not supported by the facts.

After the initial inquiry, the church provided the IRS with a copy of all literature given out before the election and copies of its policies, Bacon said.

But the IRS recently informed the church that it was not satisfied by those materials, and would proceed with a formal examination. Soon after that, church officials decided to inform the congregation about the dispute.

In an October letter to the IRS, Marcus Owens, the church's tax attorney and a former head of the IRS tax-exempt section, said, It seems ludicrous to suggest that a pastor cannot preach about the value of promoting peace simply because the nation happens to be at war during an election season.

Owens said that an IRS audit team had recently offered the church a settlement during a face-to-face meeting.

They said if there was a confession of wrongdoing, they would not proceed to the exam stage. They would be willing not to revoke tax-exempt status if the church admitted intervening in an election.

The church declined the offer.

Long said Bacon is fond of saying it's a sin not to vote, but has never told anyone how to vote. We don't do that. We preach to people how to vote their values, the biblical principles.

Regas, who was rector of All Saints from 1967 to 1995, said in an interview that he was surprised by the IRS action and then I became suspicious, suspicious that they were going after a progressive church person.

Regas helped the current church leadership collect information for the IRS on his sermon and the church's policies on involvement in political campaigns.

Some congregants were upset that a sermon citing Jesus Christ's championing of peace and the poor was the occasion for an IRS probe.

I'm appalled, said 70-year-old Anne Thompson of Altadena, a professional singer who also makes vestments for the church.

In a government that leans so heavily on religious values, that they would pull a stunt like this, it makes me heartsick.

Joe Mirando, an engineer from Burbank, questioned whether the 3,500-member church would be under scrutiny if it were not known for its activism and its liberal stands on social issues.

The question is, is it politically motivated? he said. That's the underlying feeling of everyone here. I don't have enough information to make a decision, but there's a suspicion.

Bacon revealed the IRS investigation at both morning services. Until his announcement, the mood of the congregation had been solemn because the services remembered, by name, those associated with the church who had died since last All Saints Day.

Regas' 2004 sermon imagined how Jesus would admonish Bush and Kerry if he debated them. Regas never urged parishioners to vote for one candidate over the other, but he did say that he believes Jesus would oppose the war in Iraq, and that Jesus would be saddened by Bush's positions on the use and testing of nuclear weapons.

In the sermon, Regas said, President Bush has led us into war with Iraq as a response to terrorism. Yet I believe Jesus would say to Bush and Kerry: 'War is itself the most extreme form of terrorism. President Bush, you have not made dramatically clear what have been the human consequences of the war in Iraq.'

Later, he had Jesus confront both Kerry and Bush: I will tell you what I think of your war: The sin at the heart of this war against Iraq is your belief that an American life is of more value than an Iraqi life. That an American child is more precious than an Iraqi baby. God loathes war.

If Jesus debated Bush and Kerry, Regas said, he would say to them, Why is so little mentioned about the poor?''

In his own voice, Regas said: ''The religious right has drowned out everyone else. Now the faith of Jesus has come to be known as pro-rich, pro-war and pro-American…. I'm not pro-abortion, but pro-choice. There is something vicious and violent about coercing a woman to carry to term an unwanted child.

When you go into the voting booth, Regas told the congregation, take with you all that you know about Jesus, the peacemaker. Take all that Jesus means to you. Then vote your deepest values.

Owens, the tax attorney, said he was surprised that the IRS is pursuing the case despite explicit statements by Regas that he was not trying to influence the congregation's vote.

I doubt it's politically motivated, Owens said. I think it is more a case of senior management at IRS not paying attention to what the rules are.

According to Owens, six years ago the IRS used to send about 20 such letters to churches a year. That number has increased sharply because of the agency's recent delegation of audit authority to agents on the front lines, he said.

He knew of two other churches, both critical of government policies, that had received similar letters, Owens said.

It's unclear how often the IRS raises questions about the tax-exempt status of churches.

While such action is rare, the IRS has at least once revoked the charitable designation of a church.

Shortly before the 1992 presidential election, a church in Binghamton, N.Y., ran advertisements against Bill Clinton's candidacy, and the tax agency ruled that the congregation could not retain its tax-exempt status because it had intervened in an election.

Bacon said he thought the IRS would eventually drop its case against All Saints.

It is a social action church, but not a politically partisan church, he said.

March 17, 2007 thousands of anti-war protesters will participate in a march in D.C. set to start at The Wall and work to the Pentagon.  It will be led by Cindy Sheehan, Jane Fonda, Ramsey Clark, and probably a few other hollywood glitterarti.    American protesters and their allies in the liberal news media have been comparing our military operations in Iraq to the Viet Nam War for a long time. I'm beginning to see their point.

I'm worried that our war against Islamic fundamentalism in Iraq is going to turn into Viet Nam, by which I mean that once the U.S. leaves, millions of people will lose any hope of freedom and democracy and a dangerous and violent ideology will have gained ground in the world, all because irresponsible and misinformed liberals turned public opinion against the war and encouraged our enemies.

If you want to protest a war before it starts in order to try and influence the government's decision to go to war, that's one thing. It's another thing entirely to root for America's defeat in the middle of a war. If U.S. troops pulled out of Iraq now, there'd be nothing else to call it but defeat. Anti-war protesters have a number of arguments to defend themselves with, but the bottom line is that our boys, and these days, our girls too, are over there trying to win a war. If you're protesting this war, you're not helping.

One of the first arguments you'll hear from the anti-war crowd is that political protest is a patriotic exercise of their constitutional rights. I'm not denying that it's their right. Just because something is legal under the Supreme Court's latest interpretation of the Constitution, it doesn't mean that it is morally OK - eminent domain, anyone? And protesting a war while your country is fighting it is not patriotic by any stretch. I don't understand how you can love your country so much that you want it to lose a war and will march in the streets demanding that it surrender.

Another argument you'll hear is that Cindy Sheehan and others who have lost children in Iraq have absolute moral authority, as New York Times columnist Maureen Dowd put it. One wonders if Ms. Dowd believes that pro-war activists who have lost children in Iraq have the same absolute moral authority. God has absolute moral authority. Human beings do not. To publicly denounce the very ideals that these men died fighting for, however, is to dishonor their sacrifices. Casey Sheehan, like many of the men and women in our all-volunteer army, believed strongly in what he was fighting for. While it's impossible to know what he would have wanted, I think it's safe to guess that Casey Sheehan would not have wanted anyone, no less his own mother, to use the spotlight of his heroism and his death to say that the cause he believed in, enough so that he was willing to give his life for it, was unjust.

The most powerful argument the anti-war protesters have on their side is their genuine concern for our men and women serving in uniform. They can't support the troops without supporting the war, but they care about our soldiers so much that they want them to come home safely, and as soon as possible, even before their job is done. Call me naive, but I do believe that some anti-war activists sincerely mean well. That being said, keep in mind what road is paved with good intentions.

Whether they are doing it intentionally or not, anti-war protesters are hurting our side and helping the enemy. Jim Mueller, the new national commander of the Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States, said that anti-war protesters will eventually devastate troop morale, just like they did in the 1960s. Mueller remarked, Morale means everything on the field of battle, but good morale starts at home, and that's why the [Veterans of Foreign Wars] is so concerned with this upcoming protest.

Anti-war protesters don't just lower the morale of our own troops; they boost the morale of our enemy. According to the organization Accuracy In Media, soldiers who have come back from Iraq have reported that anti-war protests help the enemy fight harder. In the 1960s, the North Vietnamese knew that anti-war protests were helping them win the war. James Stockdale, a real American hero who might be best known as Ross Perot's 1992 running mate, recalls an interrogation he endured in 1966 when he was a prisoner of war in Vietnam. His captor, Nguyen Khac Vien, said to him, Our country has no capability to defeat you on the battlefield. Vien's next words became an immortal slogan of the enemy. He added, We will win this war on the streets of New York.

I need to clarify one final point and then I am done with this.  I have to tell you, some of the remarks here have caused me great worry and torment.  I don't think everyone has to support the war, but no one should undermine troop morale by protesting. There is certainly room for academic debate about whether or not it was the right choice to go to war. I think it's wrong to protest in the middle of a war, but I also believe that before and after the war, it is important for there to be a serious and critical discussion of American foreign policy. But when anti-war protesters call for America's defeat during the war, they're undermining our mission and supporting our enemies. Even if they have the best intentions, anti-war activists aren't doing anyone any favors. The more difficult they make it for our soldiers to do their job, the longer it's going to take before they can come home.  In that sense, it definitely is another Viet Nam.

They're telling people whose homes are up for foreclosure to stay in their homes even if they are taken off to jail.

A spokesperson for the group believes that everyone should get new mortgages, even those that are in homes that they can't afford. (I've been trying to find that article.)

http://salsa.wiredforchange.com/o/2749/t/3071/signUp.jsp?key=2134

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/10/AR2009021001271.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/18/nyregion/18foreclose.html?_r=2&ref=nyregion

Planned "Tea Party" protests.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,510129,00.html

I read a daily blog on Key West real estate and today's posting happened to be on a slightly different subject.

Apparently Fred Phelps and his minions are planning on a trip to Key West to demonstrate their hate of not only gay people but the USA.

Can we take them down as the terrorist organization they are yet? One of his cohorts is already down there:

====================================================

The Key West community will meet tonight to decide whether -- and if so, how -- to respond to a nationally infamous man who hates homosexuals.

The Rev. Fred Phelps, head of the Westboro Baptist Church in Kansas, is scheduled to be in Key West on May 22 to protest the Gay/Straight Alliance at Key West High School. Phelps also is planning to demonstrate at the entrance to the island, in front of Sigsbee Park and at B'Nai Zion synagogue, according to a letter Phelps' daughter sent to Police Chief Donie Lee.

The group is planning an outdoor demonstration "regarding the judgment of God with respect to the dangers of promoting homosexuality, and the rest of the filthy manner of life and idol worshipping in this country," the letter states. The city does not require a permit for such assemblies.

Phelps' church is not recognized by mainstream Baptists and is monitored by the Anti-Defamation League as a hate group. His "church" comprises mostly his family members, about 60 of whom are said to protest three times a day, with signs that read, "God Hates Fags" and other anti-homosexual slurs. The church also protests at military funerals, claiming the deaths are the result of America's tolerance of homosexuality.

The Rev. Joe McMurray, pastor of the gay-friendly Metropolitan Community Church, where tonight's meeting will be held, said he does not think that Anthony Charles Capo Jr., who often holds a sign that says "God Hates Fags.com" on Key West street corners, is formally connected with the Kansas group.

Meeting organizers will solicit ideas from community members and law enforcement officials, said McMurray. The gathering will include the police chief, Schools Superintendent Randy Acevedo and some city commissioners.

"We can come together and decide if there will be a response, and what it would be," McMurray said. "We'll also hear from law enforcement to see what they prefer in the interest of public safety."

The Police Department is developing an operational plan for Phelps' demonstration, but Lee emphasized that the general public should ignore Phelps.

"I know it's difficult and I know, firsthand, that it's an emotional issue, but as far as I'm concerned, that's the way to deal with it," said Lee, who is gay. Any demonstrations from counter-protesters would only make it more difficult for officers to keep the peace, Lee said.

Phelps' First Amendment rights allow him and his followers to express their opinions, and the police cannot arrest them for doing so.

Lee explained that if someone says something that directly creates a public safety issue, then the situation changes. He used the example of someone yelling "fire" in a crowded theater as an example that would jeopardize public safety and therefore be an arrestable offense.

"Short of that, people have the right to express their opinion," Lee said.

McMurray said he does not know what prompted Phelps to target the high school group in a town known for its acceptance of gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered people, and its official motto of "One Human Family."

"I don't know if anybody has the 'why' behind Fred Phelps," McMurray said. "He wants to come disrupt, create unease and disturb the peace in a peace-loving community, and he raises money by suing municipalities who violate his civil rights during protests. He intimidates communities."

McMurray and others hope to hear ideas that would turn Phelps' protest into something positive for the community. One option would be a fundraiser for every hour that Phelps is here. People could make an hourly pledge to local charities such as AIDS Help and the Gay and Lesbian Community Center, so the longer Phelps remained in town, the more money he would help raise for gay-friendly service organizations.

"This cannot be personal," said McMurray, who is gay. "Once it becomes personal, we're operating on his level."

J.T. Thompson, a graphic designer who founded the "One Human Family" movement, emphasized that confrontation with Phelps and his group will not serve any purpose.

"This guy earns a living making confrontations happen," Thompson said. "It will be a good day in the fact that we can unite people here. The meeting will gather input to unite the community in a peaceful, positive and loving response."

Last night Bill O'Reilly had a reporter on that spoke about the problems Palin presented in the McCain camp.  Bill didn't actually agree with what was being said, but he also didn't argue the point.  Let's face it, that's not Bill's style.  He argues with EVERYONE that doesn't see his point of view on that show, and yet failed to stand up for Sarah Palin, who Fox News has promoted through this whole thing.  I think they were setting her up from the beginning to take the fall.  In my view that does not excuse her lack of knowledge or a bunch of other stuff she has done, but I think it's sad to use someone like that.

parties when the American people are suffering, losing jobs and homes, etc.  But hey....let's spend loads of money on steak and alcohol and throw a big ole house party at the White House. 

You know....if I actually saw our governemtn or Obama at least trying to NOT spend any money....I might feel a little bit more confident about our future.  Makes me sick!  Sick sick sick!!!!

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/12/palin/index.html#cnnSTCText

As I said, I am a normal woman, have three children, six grandchildren, and a husband who is a blue-collar worker.  As for stupid, this VP choice of McCain's is stupid.  Seriously, she has no credentials for being the leader of the USA in a time of war, in a time of major economical challenges.  Governor of Alaska?....mayor of a small town?....that's it?....  Why aren't you VP?  I am sure you have as much knowledge as she does.  She said she doesn't know anything about Iraq, although her son is going there, and said she doesn't know what a VP does.... Honestly, if I was governor of any state, I would not even ask "what does a VP do?"  I would go find out for myself.  Any drive to do her own investigating?  Any curiosity?  Do you seriously think she could be President of the US if something happens to John McCain?  America has far too many problems to gamble on a way too outside chance. 

As for Obama's arrogance, that is something you heard and repeat like a mina bird.  Guess what?  There is arrogance in every one of these politicians, otherwise they would not be in the public eye.  I am constantly amazed at the stupidity of the American people, yes I am, and if that is arrogance, so be it.

As for Obama being arrogant, that is something YOU heard and repeat.

I just saw a story on Headline News Network about the shoe-throwing incident, and they said the people of Iraq are divided on how they feel about it, but nobody feels it was wrong, half of them think it was the right thing to do and half think it was an embarrassment but not necessarily the wrong thing to do.

so if they feel that way, let's bring our precious sons and daughters home, and never go back.  Our finances are in crisis, we can't afford to be spending billions where we're not wanted.  What's the point of being there and spending all this money we could be using in much better ways. Why keep risking the lives of our troops for people who don't appreciate it at all?  I'm no political genius, far from it, but plain old common sense says this is just wrong!

Didn't realize you cornered the market.  But, hey, if you want some Bible verses, I can pitch a few of those too.

Sorry if I offended you, but I imagine the OP was perhaps a little offended at your insinuation that she was a paranoid lunatic.  Well, as momma always said, if you can't take the heat...

or

Don't dish it out if you can't eat it.

you could tell that Joe Biden really did think she was joking because the question was so ridiculous, about Obama being a Marxist.  No wonder these things get so inflated by the right-wing media.  Ridiculous questions don't deserve to be acknowledged.  What a waste of time. Someone needs to ask SP why her own home newspaper in Anchorage is supporting Obama, because she is considered too risky to be in a position a heartbeat away from the Oval Office, and the McCain campaign aides have referred to her a rogue diva.  Ouch, that must have hurt!  Now there are some FACTS for you!!

 talked about his new baby, not world affairs.

How this story was covered by either side is not the point.  Or, on second thought, maybe it is.  In case you haven't noticed, this is the kind of thing that Obama is trying to overcome - bipartisan politics.  Did I call them neocons?  Yes, because most of them are self-proclaimed neocons.  But who ended up calling Obama a nazi?  Hmmmm.

As noted in the OP, if you did not like the source provided, you could look it up through a media source that is more to your liking.  Maybe you couldn't find this story in conservative media.  Why do you think that is?