Agree, Lurker...hard to wrap the mind around...
Posted By: Zauber on 2005-09-05
In Reply to: I have not posted here for awhile because, frankly,.. - Lurker
...It is so surreal in a way, all that happened, and then paasing the buck, and now the tide of human hate that in some ways is just as damaging as the storm itself.
I fear they will try their best to rewrite the story of what happened. It's already starting. Now the new poll is out saying somewhere close to half of Americans approve of Bush's handling of the emergency services. The conservatives are all agaggle over it - as if it was real. As if just saying so makes it real. Karl Rove has played this game from day one but they just don't see it. Not even with all the ultra conservative pundits turning on them, they believe a faked poll before they believe their own eyes and ears.
My brother told me a story once about a company he used to work for in Ft. Pierce, FL, run by a man and his three adult sons. One day my brother was taking a break with the three sons and they were reminiscing about the good old days (about 10 years previously) when they would load up their shotguns, jump in the pickup and head over to the segregated part of town where the black people lived, and drive around the outskirts of town taking pot shots at the inhabitants, killing as many as possible, laughing as heads exploded and children were shot out of their mother's arms. This was going on in 1962. The blacks couldn't do anything about it - the whites owned the city and the sheriff's office and if they didn't like it they were invited to get the hell out of town. The sons in question were from 12-14 years old when they were committing murder with their father's approval and assistance.
What happened this last week gives me the same unbelieving sense of horror and shame as I had when I first heard that story. I just don't know what to say about people so dead inside that murder to them is a joyride. That's kind of a dramatic way to put it, but this stuff really happened and I don't think these kinds of people have left us at all. I am sure they have not all murdered the defenseless for sport, but I am also no longer sure that defending and enabling murderers of any kind is very much better. They might not be shooting but they are certainly driving the truck around with a big grin on their faces, some of them. Not all, but a very dead empty and evil few.
At least now we can plainly see who they are.
Are you Sioux by the way Lurker? Don't mean to pry but just curious:) I have to take issue with the phrase though. I always believed it, now I don't believe it anymore. We're not all one. There are the people and then there are...I don't know what they are but they aren't human and they are not related to anyone but each other. I wish I could feel more inclusive about it but that's not going to happen ever again, I suspect.
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Try to wrap your mind around this....
THe "wealthy" are the business owners who EMPLOY people. Helllooo. You give them tax cuts, they don't have to lay people off. That's a good thing. You give them tax cuts they can grow their businesses and employ MORE people. That's a good thing. Simple economics 101 that seems to escape the more Democrat among us. And I have NEVER been able to figure that one out.
Yet another selective liberal mind, hard at work...(sm)
You seriously don't remember all the hoopla about Obama quotes from his books that were played over and over, that surely stand alone...and yet, according to his ardent followers, were taken out of context.
You seriously don't remember his remarks about Pennsylvania gun owners and religion?
Oh wait, these don't count. They were....taken out of context. He didn't mean what they say he meant.
However....when it's done to a conservative (Rush), he's, well....all those things the previous poster said he was....god forbid you should listen to the rest of what he says, and why.....his comments stand alone......
This misguided drivel. I don't think Rush has a clue. Blow-hard comes to mind.
I have to admit this is the first thing I've ever seen of his. He seems a bit out of it, to say the least. He's also twisting reality beyond the bounds of truthfulness.
Why do we constantly get hammered with these ridiculous slanted, partisan postings? Could we PLEASE JUST ONCE be shown something by the conservatives that is not from a propaganda source?
I agree the Lurker's above post is right on...
My post was to say that the pat answer of Reps to Dems who disagree with Bush is to call them nuts, morons or haters. That's all I was saying. For Heavens' sake, Lurker is most definitely RIGHT ON! Do you think any of these rednecks would take this from Clinton!? Hell NO!!
Agree with you, Lurker {{{{applause}}}}
Oh Lurker, I couldn't agree more!
Something wicked this way comes, and we are in the middle of it. Oh yeah, I have been likened to Chicken Little, the sky is falling, blah, blah, blah, but I am cognizant of the falsities this administration would like us to believe, and although I am of average intelligence, not presidential material, am educated enough to know that they, WHOMEVER THEY ARE, were going into a HORNET's NEST in IRAQ, also going to make more TERRORISTS. Also, with my average intelligence, I knew enough to know that Hussain was keeping his people under control, and that NO terrorists would be stupid enough to make trouble or reside in Iraq. He was master. So he killed 30,000 people, maybe a little more. How many have the BUSHWACKERS KILLED!? Yes, of course, I'm upset with him and his cronies. He has made AMERICANS LOOK STUPID, DISHONEST and MURDEROUS and no more humanitarian, maybe even less so, than Saddam. At least Saddam had his reasons to kill his people. What are HIS reasons for the killing? Have not heard any that make any sense! That is my take on the whole thing. Plus the useless FEMA of the Katrina disaster, and on and on and on. No time to spell it all out.
Thanks Lurker...and I agree with you about checks and balances...nm
Agree! America has lost its mind, which is why
nm
I think we can wrap up this
distraction issue by repeating the old saw "Never wrestle with a pig in the mud. You only get dirty and the pig likes it" Shall we retire the subject?
Look, if the pubs are going to get a bad wrap
I may as well ruffle your feathers!!!  (At least I'm trying to be PC by posting a nonpartisan-looking smiling)
Yes, I have a teenager; and I've told him to wrap it
I also was a teenager myself in the 80s.
I can say that in high school when somone popped up with child; they popped out of school early with another diagnosis. Yes, mono, was one of the "illnesses" these girls supposedly had, so this type of thinking goes way back. Let's brush it under the carpet, and no one will notice. I am not so sure I like that mentality.
Here's a deal - the pubs will take the wrap for troopergate if
Braaaaawk Osama takes the wrap for the rampant voter fraud he is perpetuating across the US.
He's a crooked scheister and the Dems are coming off looking like monkeys with their heads up their own heinies for swallowing his B.S.
Don't you think there's a reason Osamabinbama has to look for his voters by dredging soup kitchens and rock concerts and homeless shelters? I guess that's the voter 'base' in the Democratic party now. Air heads and pot heads. Greaaaaaaaat.
Thank you, Lurker!
I can't stop laughing and emailed this to everyone I know, as well as added it to my favorites.
This is priceless! Thanks. 
Thank you, Lurker.
Now THERE'S a post full of kindness, understanding, tolerance, and love. I wish there were more people like you in this country right now. I was starting to feel very angry and in the midst of letting them drag me down to their level, but your post just lifted me up from all that (even sans the beads). You must be very proud of your heritage. I would love to learn more about it.
Thank you again for your post.
Thank you, Lurker nm
nm
Thanks, Lurker.
This was a great read and sums up very well the impression Ann Coulter has given me of herself and her so-called values.
Yes, I will do this Lurker.
well aware of the hardships endured by native Americans as well as their many contributions, such as the Navajo codetalkers in WWII as only 1 example. That's what gets me about some of the rabid illegal immigrant bashers...**they're illegal** blah, blah blah. Yeah, we need to secure our borders, etc., but some of the arguments made by these people make me sick. If ANYONE got a raw deal it's the native Americans; except for them, we are ALL here illegally. I love the many wonderful traditions and meaningful ceremonies of native Americans; I will support this.
Thanks, Lurker.
I hardly have any, as well.
Oh, come on now Lurker. sm
You post on the C board, too. This is all silly.
Lurker?
Yes, I've posted on the conservative board a couple times recently. Didn't take me long to realize it wasn't the place for me, and I don't plan on posting there any more.
However, I continue to read the posts there, note your ongoing confusion and truly hope you get back to school soon so they can teach you that the 9 in 9/11 indicates the month of September, not August. I do applaud you for getting the 11 in 9/11 correct, though.
Another point of confusion: I'm not Lurker. I'm Liberal.
But Lurker,
will all due respect, your posts ooze hatred. I don't think you might be aware of it, but they do.
Lurker. sm
You are the only one who has ever posted here, more than once, about AG and I and who we *really* are. So it's more than reasonable for me to equate that kind of post with you.
Lurker...
just a simple question. You have read the posts. Do you think I deserved the *fool*, *I feel I have been defecated upon,* comments? Do you think that because they come from a *liberal* that is okay? I have not said I am done with you, you are delusional to anyone. Yet Teddy has said I was mentally ill, have I taken my meds, am I nuts, and on and on and on. Why is acceptable to you, and you champion her, and let castigate conservatives for saying similar things to you?
It appears I was wrong about you. I thought you were above all that. But...alas...I guess I was wrong.
thanks for sharing this, Lurker
Kudos to those brave ladies.
Another one attacking Lurker...and on and on
Unacceptable answer for word verbiage. Do people actually let you get away with that?
[Post a Reply] [View Follow Ups] [Politics] --> [Liberals]
Posted By: ? on 2006-03-03,
In Reply to: Find it yourself... - Lurker
You must run in really tolerant debate circles. Best stay in them. This kind of behavior is not tolerated in most political circles I know of. But it is a good example of how far we have slipped into the he said/she said atmosphere of debate in this country. Just say anything and never have to prove it. It works well for the MSM, of which you seem so fond. Well, should have known better. I am off for greener pastures and debate fields where people actually have to prove what they say. Imagine that!
I don't see this as an attack and obviously neither did Lurker. sm
Please look to your own back yard.
Bravo, Lurker.
Excellent post.
No, Lurker, you are mistaken. sm
by *beyond you* I meant it was in God's hands, not yours. I am done talking to you about it. You are determined to be offended no matter what I say. I have never quoted scripture or even interpreted it except to say that God will be the judge and that matter is between President Bush and God. Walking the walk and talking the talk....well, I don't know what you mean by that. Another insult I suppose, but since you don't know me, that would be hard for you to *judge* but maybe not, since you seem fond of judging. As far as mistakes, well, I don't really know what you mean by that either. Mistakes like drinking alcohol at one time? Mistakes like stepping on an ant? Mistakes like spending too much? Hardly offenses to keep him out of heaven. You have added many insults in your post. I am glad I did not stoop to that level.
Bravo, Lurker...very well said.
*China is big* and *Russia is big* is the best our esteemed leader can come up with. Yep, it's hard work being the decider. Only demonstrates (yet again) he is a spoiled, uninformed adolescent with a simplistic view of the world. I've seen 7-year-olds with better table manners and a better grasp of geography. Ironic, also, that he and his puppetmasters show such disdain for the UN and Kofi Annan and yet Bush wants Annan to *give them a call*. God help us....but it's like we've suspected and feared all along: They seem to WANT WWIII. Yet they continue to get away with all kinds of stuff because there are people still fixated on Clinton's sex life. javascript:editor_insertHTML('text',' ');
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Lurker, was it this article?
We Won't Be Quiet. If so, I read it. It was fantastic!!! The other link was about Iraq. I will repost the link.
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0901-28.htm
Lurker, you are not that obtuse. sm
Seems to me, you and Lydia are talking about totally different things. Win what? The spread of communism for one thing. And the fact is, the US Military was not allowed to win that war and the antiwar movement had a lot to do with it, as I have said time and time again, and alot of innocent people died when we left Vietnam. It's a funny thing to me that some people are so concerned with the innocent civilians dying in Iraq but not a tear was shed or a word uttered about the millions and millions who died at the hands of Pol Pot and North Vietnam once we left. Selective memory must be wonderful.
On second thought, you are right, Lurker. sm
It's about MJF being used as a pawn to relay false information about stem cell research, 99% of which is false and unfounded. It's about misrepresenting what embryonic stem cell research really is and what it will be. So you are right, it's about a whole lot more than MJF. It's dirty politics and the Democrats used MJF's affliction for their gains. Shame on them.
Lurker, there is hope yet ....sm
Reports vary on the total number that showed up, anywhere from 500,000 to 750,000, for the rally in Washington today. There are two parts to the video from CNN. There were about 40 protestors there that were pro-war :)~ Also of note, the state of New Mexico has now filed articles of impeachment, so I guess that is a message to Pelosi that it is not off the table.
http://www.cnn.com/video/player/player.html?url=/video/us/2007/01/27/vo.dc.anti.war.protest.cnn
Lurker never said a thing about being set up...
until someone else said it for her, and then she pick it up and ran with it. That is typical of the left.
Thanks for your reply, Lurker
Thought I'd switch back over to this board.
Thanks for your reply to my question about your leaving Florida. It sounds like a big transition in many ways, both geographically and emotionally. I had inquired because I have similar thoughts myself and so far I keep moving farther and farther north and away from civilization. Anyway, good luck and it would be good to hear when you're settled in.
Hey Lurker, you're in crazyland over there, come back over here!!
Well, yeah, it's kind of crazy here, too, sometimes. But less toxic, much more sane and more welcoming. I kind of like it overall.
Nice to see you posting again.
I believe Lurker asked if she would go to help rebuild. sm
and MT said that she would if possible. Try and keep up.
I head the same thing, Lurker!
And I'm ecstatic!!! I heard Craig Crawford say that Bush isn't the radical evangelical that some of his more rabid followers think he is. Maybe Bush isn't as bad as I thought he was. Maybe he IS choosing a woman who is *reasonable.* Maybe he's finally waking up and realizing his numbers are going down because he's ignored the majority of the people in this country while trying to cater to the whacky radical minority who want use the GOVERNMENT to force their religious views and imagined moral superiority down everyone's throats.
I didn't even start out being this left-sided. It seemed the more right-sided he leaned, the more left-sided I became, almost an involuntary reflex type reaction in rebellion. With the nomination of Miers and the subsequent disapproval by Krystal, Buchanan, etc., I feel as if I can relax a little bit and finally feel there might actually be HOPE for America. This is indeed a happy day!
Thank you, Lurker; you're right on the money.
There are people you would jump off a cliff at the command of this administration; I guess that's what I find so difficult to believe. King Georgie can do no wrong no matter what. Where I get a little hot under the collar is when the rest of us are supposed to be happy to get dragged through the muck along with the rest of them. Hypocrisy and corruption apparently have no effect on the Kool-Aid drinkers. Yes, what does it take? Where is the outrage?
Excellent post. Thanks, Lurker.
Fear and ignorance. The only way Bush knows how to lead.
Bravo, Lurker! Prrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Great article, Lurker; thanks.
Thanks Lurker...very good read..Add this too...sm
**And for those who don't know already, Ann Coulter is a Conservative apologist who has just released a new book, and while promoting her future Best Seller, she made some off-the-wall comments just so she could get some publicity for said book. She claimed that the windows of 9/11 are milking their husbands deaths, and called them broads who are enjoying their million dollar status. To me, she isn't an alien, just another person trying to XXXX somebody else over in order to make some chump change. I don't believe for a second she means a word of what she came out with, but is just trying to drum up interest in her new product, which is for sale. And according to Amazon.com's book rankings, she's accomplishing her goal. Shrewd businesswomen? Yes indeed. On her way to becoming Satan, halfway there!**
Great idea, Lurker.
weren't any responses at the other board? As you say, they were/are gung ho about the war. Could it be some soldiers get more support than others? Would they be so supportive of these soldiers as well?
Gotham Gazette - http://www.gothamgazette.com/article/immigrants/20030501/11/368
Immigrant Soldiers
by Chaleampon Ritthichai
01 May 2003
Even though his coffin was draped with the American flag, U.S. Marine Staff Sergeant Riayan Tejeda, 26, was not a U.S.citizen. Tejeda, who was killed in combat in Iraq, was a native of the Dominican Republic.
Eight years ago he joined the Marines after graduating from George Washington High School.
“I hope the United States will remember that my son died for this country,” his father Julio Tejada told Newsday.
Tejeda’s death has brought attention to stories of immigrants who fought for the U.S. military throughout history and the current controversy over their immigration status.
For immigrants, joining the military could lead to a faster track to citizenship, which allows them and their immediate family to reap the same benefits as native-born U.S. citizens.
In early 1990s, immigrant soldiers became eligible for citizenship after three years of legal residency, two years less than civilians. More than 3,600 immigrant soldiers became U.S. citizens from 1994 to 1999.
Last July, President Bush signed an executive order that temporarily allows immigrant soldiers to apply for citizenship immediately. Nearly 5,500 military personnel applied and some already got their citizenships.
There is no law prohibiting illegal immigrants from joining in the army but the armed forces representative says anyone without proper documents is rejected, according to a report in the New York Times.
Tejeda and at least six other U.S. servicemen killed in the war in Iraq had not yet become citizens. Six of these immigrants were granted citizenship posthumously but their relatives did not receive the benefits that would normally go to the families of the citizens.
“It is an honorary status in commemoration of the valor and the sacrifices of the deceased,” the Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services explained in the memo.
More than 36,000 service members are non-citizens, making up about 5 percent of active duty service members. About a third come from Mexico and other Spanish-speaking countries and the rest are from China, Vietnam, Canada, Korea, India and other countries.
In New York City alone, 40 percent of Navy recruits were immigrants, 36 percent in the Marines and 27 percent in the Army.
Many are surprised by the number of non-citizens serving in the U.S. military but others say immigrants have always been a part of the military.
“Basically, both immigrants or non-citizens have served in the military since at least the Revolutionary war,” said University of Michigan Professor Cara Wong, who has been studying immigrants and war.
There were over 500,000 immigrants who fought in the Civil War. They were allowed to form their own units, elect their officers and speak their native tongues. “The Germans are true and patriotic,” said President Abraham Lincoln about the German immigrants volunteering to fight for the union army.
Some immigrant soldiers were even honored by the army for their bravery. During WWII Mexican born soldier Marcario Garcia, whose company was pinned down by the Nazis, fought his way out and, though wounded, was able to return with captured prisoners. Garcia was promoted to staff sergeant and awarded the Medal of Honor.
“The distinction between legal and illegal immigrants was non-existent until well after the Civil War,” said professor Wong.
The situation of non-citizen soldiers has caught the eyes of lawmakers in Washington D.C. Some are introducing bills that would shorten the waiting period to two years for foreign-born soldiers and others even argue for immediate citizenship for all immigrants on active duty in the armed forces.
But that did not happen soon enough for Tejeda. At his funeral, hundreds of people gathered to honor him at St. Elizabeth’s Church in Washington.
“He may never have been made officially a citizen of our nation,” said Mayor Michael Bloomberg. “But we are proud he was a citizen of New York.”
Spokesmen for Senator Charles Schumer and Representative Charles Rangel said that they are seeking citizenship posthumously for Tejada if his family desires.
An immigrant from Bangkok, Thailand, Chaleampon Ritthichai is the editor of The Citizen.
Hey....Ahem....and friend Lurker...
another cut and paste for you. Please pay special attention to the portion regarding Mr. Clinton and how he made the focus of his presidency regime change...so much so he signed it into LAW. So it wasn't just the big bad Bushes....your fav prez Mr. Clinton signed into LAW in 1998, American policy for regime change in Iraq...OH SAY IT AIN'T SO....but you didn't read THAT in the CNN article did you??? Typical, typical...typicallll.
The Act found that Iraq had, between 1980 and 1998 (1) committed various and significant violations of International Law, (2) had failed to comply with the obligations to which it had agreed to following the Gulf War and (3) further had ignored Resolutions of the United Nations Security Council. The Act declared that it was the Policy of the United States to support regime change. The Act was passed in the House [2] and Senate [3] and signed into law by the US President Bill Clinton on October 31, 1998. Its stated purpose was: to establish a program to support a transition to democracy in Iraq. Specifically, Congress made findings of past Iraqi military actions in violation of International Law and that Iraq had denied entry of United Nations Special Commission on Iraq (UNSCOM) inspectors into its country to inspect for weapons of mass destruction. Congress found: It should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq and to promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime. On December 16, 1998, President Bill Clinton mandated Operation Desert Fox, a major four-day bombing campaign on Iraqi targets.
Can we let this regime change stuff drop now??
Lurker, isn't that the response you would expect?
Did you think that those folks would behave as adults? They are bullying children, after all. You were set up to be mocked and chastised.
I do have to say, though, that your posts for the most part have been an eloquent and ethical plea for a more humane world. I would think that anyone, no matter their personal ideology, would have been moved, even inspired, to ponder a different manner of viewing our world and our role in it.
This all reminds me of trying to argue/debate with my mother who was a borderline personality (a mental disorder). It's hopeless. You cannot have a straightforward discussion/debate/argument with someone for whom the bounds of reality are constantly shifting as their logic will never be grounded in sane reasoning.
I think "()" is just some teen-aged lurker.
I think perhaps you read a different article than the one posted by Lurker.
nm
Lurker, to me, took things personally. You can't do that in debate.
Were you ever in FORMAL debate class? Say in high school or college? No one attacked Lurker and the conversation was civil. The end result was that people ended up thanking each other, Lurker included. Try not to wspeak for every liberal on the board. I would resent it if I were them. If you could switch from attack dog mode for a few minutes, you would have seen the whole thread for the really great debate that it was until Lurker decided to take it personally.
Lurker, 3/4 of the people who post here leave no name. That is nothing new.
I didn't know that Lurker told you how she felt.
In that case, I apologize.
And regarding looking in my own back yard, with all due respect to you and the board and your rules, I thought this WAS my back yard. Out of respect for you and your rules, I have not posted on the Conservative Board.
All I'm asking is that, unlike me, THEY respect your rules.
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