I guess our definitions of a Patriot differs
Posted By: LOL on 2005-10-23
In Reply to: Long live Wilson - gt
and I guess that's okay, but the truth will come out in the wash, eventually. All the media filters in the world will not keep the truth coming from coming out eventually, and we may all be surprised at what the truth actually is which may be drastically different than either one of our points of view.
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Definitions....see inside
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxist
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism
http://www.conservapedia.com/Conservative
http://www.conservapedia.com/Liberal
There's much more. Just Google for different sites for unbiased definitions. Go to reliable sources, not opinions of the other side, to see definitions.
Then decide for yourself.
learn the definitions
Since you apparently don't think you're paying enough in taxes, here's an idea. Instead of my paying even more in taxes, why not have you go ahead and do it? You seem to think that gov't can run your life better than you can and that you would obviously make wrong/poor decisions otherwise.
Look up the words in the dictionary. Donald Trump said the same thing last PM on Greta about taxing us even more, and how it'd ruin things even more.
Just take the cash out of your wallet and hand it over to those who can make it just fine w/o living under socialism. Your naivity is just scary.
Do us all a favor. Go look up the definitions of tax cut
The only way anybody gets money back more than what they pay in is if they earn very low wages and have many children. The income bracket they are in refunds all revenues back to them that they paid in. In addition, they get a tax CREDIT only if they qualify for earned income tax credit or child tax credit. For example, lowest bracket tops out at $7825. Their tax rate is 10%. Whatever they have paid in over $782.50, they get back and ONLY what they have paid over that amount, because this is based on the tax rate. They get more back only if they have qualified for EIC or CTC.
It you get a tax rate cut, you cannot benefit from it if you do not earn wages. These guys also will not get any additional refundable tax CREDIT as that is paid against tax liabilty. If you take issue with this, show me how I am wrong here.
Economic definitions.............
Recession is when your neighbor loses his job.
Depression is when you lose yours.
Recovery is when Obama loses his.
Look LVMT, you look up all the little definitions you want. You are still wrong. sm
Very very wrong. Christopher Hitchens is hardly a neoconservative. Neither am I and neither are most of the other conservative posters here.
Oh please humor me. Have you pieced together some definitions?
x
Has nothing to do with "humoring you" or "my" definitions.
It's important for you to discover the complexities for yourself (Google is all you need), and "my" definitions don't matter unless I am the one doing the analysis.
But I'll start the ball rolling.
1. "Prenatal care" starting at what point in the gestation (1st trimester? 2nd? etc.)?
2. Involving what different features or services?
3. Does the study adequately filter out other coincidental factors that tend to characterize some populations that do not receive prenatal care, but which also might impact infant survival, such as poor nutrition, smoking, alcohol and drug use, squalid living conditions and even low educational levels?
4. What time period after delivery will be used to define a relevant "infant death"?
5. What causes of infant demise will be considered relevant to the question?
6. Will all "modes" of delivery be included?
7. Will "high-risk" pregnancies be included or excluded?
8. Will premature deliveries be included or excluded?
The list of problems that have been identified in the design of studies that look very scientific and conclusive, and have been published in respected journals, has proven to be considerable.
Some have tried to get around these problems using a technique called "meta-analysis", which tries to reconcile and synthesize the findings from multiple studies, but this hasn't been very successful either.
The problems worsen when you simply use empirical evidence - say, by comparing birth/mortality rates in different countries with different "levels" of prenatal care. One study "showed" that the mortality rate in the US was higher than that in one of the Baltic states (I've forgotten now which one), but failed to take into account that in the US we try to deliver and save infants who are much more premature than they try to salvage in the other country - so naturally, our "failure" rate would look worse.
The other problem is really more or less endemic. "Prenatal care", however defined, will represent some set of services and characteristics. We may assume that all of them do not contribute equally (and some, perhaps not at all) to infant survival. This means that even if you can resolve all of the study design problems and show that prenatal care contributes to survival, you haven't said very much that's useful. It might be, for instance, that a simple regimen of multiple vitamins has as much impact on survival as all of the other factors combined. If so, have we presented a case for purchasing "prenatal care" as a constellation of services (from the standpoint of healthcare economics), or should we focus on finding ways to see that pregnant women get the multiple vitamins?
When we see "studies" of complex issues - especially those involving an interplay between myriad scientific and social or cultural factors - we should always put on the brakes and find out more about how the study was done, what assumptions it made, and keep a sharp eye out for flaws in the design of the study (which, I am sad to say, crop up more frequently than you might suspect), even or perhaps especially in the field of medicine. People who study things do have agendas, and sometimes the agenda amounts to grants of $millions in research funds, or sponsorship of the study by an organization that has a "mission", etc. A lot of what masquerades as "scientific proof" in the field of medicine, unfortunately, is nothing of the sort. Let's see now - are eggs good for us or bad for us?
Add to that the Patriot Act..
They could not get the Patriot Act passed before 9/11. Read this Act. It is downright scary and at the very end it states "or other purposes." What "other purposes?"
yes. Patriot. nm
nm
Don't want a patriot, need someone
who is highly intelligent, who takes time to think through his/her decisions, not a shoot off the hip kind of guy.
what does this have to do with the patriot act?
nm
Now here's a patriot...Not..(sm)
Rush Limbaugh: *I Hope Obama Fails." Somebody's gotta say it.*
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_011609/content/01125113.guest.html
Maybe we should put that patriot act to good use....(sm)
like on the nuts at Fox News who are doing nothing but inciting violence.
http://leesearles.wordpress.com/2009/04/07/rightwingnuttery-glenn-beck-and-the-rise-of-fox-news-militia-media-edition/
Sheehan, a true patriot
I have followed this courageous woman who sacrified her son for this war and I have nothing but praise and respect for her. She is a true American.
Michael Moore a patriot? sm
in WHAT alternate universe? Investigate? He wouldn't know a true investigation if it bit him on his very large butt. During the last election when he called Americans in general and Democrats in particular stupid...well I guess he loves the country but holds the people in contempt...particularly liberals as that is what he said...a patriot? Well the founding fathers would spin in their graves on that one. LOL...omg. Michael Moore a patriot. LOL.
He was a true patriot! I'll bet you are
proud of him.
I didn't vote for or against the Patriot Act and neither did you....
Congress did. Obama voted to reauthorize it as well.
The Patriot Act has nothing whatsoever to do with communism. What would make you say that?
Patriot Act/health care
You mean HC, of course. She was not different than any other congress and senate members. Patriot Act parts 1 and 2 were passed BEFORE the Iraq War WMD Bush lies, people die justification based on faulty intelligence was revealed. It makes me crazy that it is still there and I truly hope to see it revised or scrapped sometime in the next 4 years.
I am asking you, seriously...do you know when you started feeling vulnerable to govt control? I feel that too, but I am sure for different reasons than you...and I really am interested to know what make you feel that way.
Obama's plan is not a socialist plan like the ones you are referring to. He is not taking free enterprise out of health care. He is proposing to open up the existing plan that now covers Congress, the senate and federal employees. I have looked at that plan. It offers a number of choices in terms of deductible amounts, types of coverage (HMO, PPO, etc), premium amounts and the like. Pre-existing conditions are covered under some of those plans, if not all of them. He is aiming his pre-existing changes toward private insurance companies as part of his health plan.
It works like any other group plan. If you broaden the base of employees (in this case, citizens added to the plan by CHOICE, not force), the premiums come down. The care remains the same. You are free to choose the plan that best suits your needs or elect to keep your existing insurance. For Obama, it is a question of giving people access to affordable health care. He is not suggesting to transfer tax dollars to create the kind of plan you are describing that you consider to be subpar.
What is TriCare? I have to leave for a little while, but when I get back I will try to retrieve the link I used to inspect the existing federal plan and if I find it, I will post it later this afternoon. BTW, I know I come on strong and use sarcasm to a fault when I feel I am dealing with a poster who I think (sometimes mistakenly) is either ill informed or showing disrespect...not when having healthy debates over differences in opinion, beliefs or ideology. Those debates end up being the most informative of all and are a lot more satisfying than just preaching to the choir.
Do you recall the pre-Patriot Act world?
when diverse viewpoints were at our fingertips and not dictated by Mega-Media outlets riding around in the pockets of political status quo? Not only has this dummed down American audiences nationwide, but it has been a direct assault on the democratic process.
Patriot Act provisions:
1. Law enforcement agencies authorized (and sometimes forced) to search telephone, e-mail communications, medical, financial and other records without a warrant. This has been exercised against their own citizens, the most recent instance being voyeuristic easedropping on intimate conversations between American troops serving in Iraw and their spouses...right to privacy in 1st, 4th and 5th admendments notwithstanding.
2. Eased restrictions on foreign intelligence gathering within the United States. This has allowed them to expand their definition of terrorisim to include individuals and groups exercising their 1st amendment right to redress the government via political dissent.
3. Expanded the Secretary of the Treasury's authority to regulate financial transactions, particularly those involving foreign individuals and entities. An example of this would be freezing funds of a first generation natural born citizens sending money to their family members who still live overseas.
4. Enhances the discretion of law enforcement and immigration authorities in detaining and deporting SUSPECTED (not proven) of terrorism-related acts. This has not worked out well for many perfectly innocent citizens and permanent residents whose only crime is to have a Moslem name.
5. The act also expands the definition of terrorism to include domestic terrorism, thus enlarging the number of activities to which the USA Patriot Act’s expanded law enforcement powers can be applied.
Abuse of the Patriot Act has been rife and is the stuff of legend, as is the controversy that surrounds it. The erosion of civil right stemming from this one piece of legislation is breath-taking, but the mindset that created it....even more so. I will be voting for a candidate that shows at least some sort of awareness of civil rights. Those are the freedoms I worry about.
Huckabee forgot about the Patriot Act...
Ummm audacious? More control? I'm getting whiplash from looking behind in order to look ahead.
Bush to criminalize his protesters under Patriot Act
By Patriot Daily
News Clearinghouse
1-13-6
George Bush wants to create the new criminal of disruptor who can be jailed for the crime of disruptive behavior. A little-noticed provision in the latest version of the Patriot Act will empower Secret Service to charge protesters with a new crime of disrupting major events including political conventions and the Olympics.
The Secret Service would also be empowered to charge persons with breaching security and to charge for entering a restricted area which is where the President or other person protected by the Secret Service is or will be temporarily visiting. In short, be sure to stay in those wired, fenced containments or free speech zones.
Patriot Daily News Clearinghouse's diary:
Who is the disruptor? Bush Team history tells us the disruptor is an American citizen with the audacity to attend Bush events wearing a T-shirt that criticizes Bush; or a member of civil rights, environmental, anti-war or counter-recruiting groups who protest Bush policies; or a person who invades Bush's bubble by criticizing his policies. A disruptor is also a person who interferes in someone else's activity, such as interrupting Bush when he is speaking at a press conference or during an interview.
What are the parameters of the crime of disruptive behavior? The dictionary defines disruptive as characterized by unrest or disorder or insubordination. The American Medical Association defines disruptive behavior as a style of interaction with people that interferes with patient care, and can include behavior such as foul language; rude, loud or offensive comments; and intimidation of patients and family members.
What are the rules of engagement for disruptors? Some Bush Team history of their treatment of disruptors provide some clues on how this administration will treat disruptors in the future.
(1) People perceived as disruptors may be preemptively ejected from events before engaging in any disruptive conduct.
In the beginning of this war against disruptors, Americans were ejected from taxpayer funded events where Bush was speaking. At first the events were campaign rallies during the election, and then the disruptor ejectment policy was expanded to include Bush's post election campaign-style events on public policy issues on his agenda, such as informing the public on medicare reform and the like. If people drove to the event in a car with a bumper sticker that criticized Bush's policies or wore T-shirts with similar criticism, they were disruptors who could be ejected from the taxpayer event even before they engaged in any disruptive behavior. White House press secretary McClellan defended such ejectments as a proper preemptive strike against persons who may disrupt an event: If we think people are coming to the event to disrupt it, obviously, they're going to be asked to leave.
(2) Bush Team may check its vast array of databanks to cull out those persons who it deems having disruptor potential and then blacklist those persons from events.
The White House even has a list of persons it deems could be disruptive to an eventand then blacklists those persons from attending taxpayer funded events where Bush speaks. Sounds like Bush not only has the power to unilaterally designate people as enemy combatants in the global war on terror, but to unilaterally designate Americans as disruptive in the domestic war against free speech.
(3) The use of surveillance, monitoring and legal actions against disruptors.
Bush's war against disruptors was then elevated to surveillance, monitoring, and legal actions against disruptor organizations. The FBI conducts political surveillance and obtains intelligence filed in its database on Bush administration critics , such as civil rights groups (e.g., ACLU), antiwar protest groups (e.g., United for Peace and Justice) and environmental groups (e.g., Greenpeace).
This surveillance of American citizens exercising their constitutional rights has been done under the pretext of counterterrorism activities surrounding protests of the Iraq war and the Republican National Convention. The FBI maintains it does not have the intent to monitor political activities and that its surveillance and intelligence gathering is intended to prevent disruptive and criminal activity at demonstrations, not to quell free speech.
Surveillance of potential disruptors then graduated to legal actions as a preemptive strike against potential disruptive behavior at public events. In addition to monitoring and surveillance of legal groups and legal activities, the FBI issued subpoenas for members to appear before grand juries based on the FBI's intent to prevent disruptive convention protests. The Justice Dept. opened a criminal investigation and subpoenaed records of Internet messages posted by Bush`s critics. And, the Justice Dept. even indicted Greenpeace for a protest that was so lame the federal judge threw out the case.
So now the Patriot Act, which was argued before enactment as a measure to fight foreign terrorists, is being amended to make clear that it also applies to American citizens who have the audacity to disrupt President Bush wherever his bubble may travel. If this provision is enacted into law, then Bush will have a law upon which to expand the type of people who constitute disruptors and the type of activities that constitute disruptive activities. And, then throw them all in jail.
Patriot Daily News Clearinghouse
Obama voted to extend the Patriot Act...
just so you know. After he said he would work to repeal it. There's some honesty for ya. Frankly, I don't think throwing your pastor and mentor of 20 years under the bus for your political career is particularly moral either. But that is just me.
This should make **patriot** Cheney happy.
NM
The Patriot Act is up but some want to keep it, including Schumer. Don't blame Bush for that. nm
Please give examples of people violated by the Patriot Act
like rr said, Nancy Pelosi said she knows of no one who has been abused by the Patriot Act.
We lost our freedom with the last admin. - wire tapping, Patriot Act, etc....nm
x
That's true - and Barack Obama is a true Patriot too.
Again we can agree to disagree. How John McCain has voted goes against everything I want as a President, but there are an equal number of people to me who feel opposite. That's the way it goes.
Your last comment brought to mind how true that is. Being a true patriot is not harmful in a candidate. John McCain is a patriot. So is Barack Obama.
Good don't guess. It's my guess though.nm
x
My guess would be
THREE!
guess what
Now you know how it feels, don't you?
That's anybody's guess. sm
But I think it is an educated guess to think most democratic voters in this election were against the war and most republican voters were for the war. Just my guess.
I guess your'e in the 39%
Bush approval rating dips to 39 percent - poll
Wed Oct 12, 9:47 PM ET
President George W. Bush's job approval rating has fallen to a new low of 39 percent in an NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll released on Wednesday.
Bush's approval rating dipped in the poll below a mid-September ranking of 40 percent. The survey also found only 28 percent of respondents believed the country was headed in the right direction, NBC reported.
Bush's political challenges have been piling up in recent weeks, from criticism over his handling of Hurricane Katrina, to growing unease over rising gas prices to conservative discord over the nomination of Harriet Miers to the U.S. Supreme Court.
Many conservatives are outraged that Bush picked the White House insider with no judicial experience instead of a judge with clear-cut conservative credentials who could be counted on to move the high court firmly to the right.
Twenty-nine percent of people surveyed said Miers was qualified to serve on the highest court in the United States, while 24 percent thought she was not qualified and 46 percent said they did not know enough about her, NBC said.
The poll also found that strong majorities did not believe that recent charges against former House Republican leader Tom DeLay of Texas or a federal investigation of Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, a Tennessee Republican, were politically motivated, NBC said.
DeLay has been indicted in Texas on money-laundering and conspiracy charges linked to campaign financing. Frist is being investigated over a stock sale.
With the 2006 congressional elections a year away, 48 percent of respondents said they preferred a Democratic-controlled Congress, compared with 39 percent who said they preferred Republican leadership, NBC said.
The 9-point difference was the largest margin between the parties in the 11 years the NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll had been tracking the question, NBC said.
The poll of 807 adults was conducted from Saturday to Monday and had a margin of error of plus or minus 3.4 percentage points
where are you? I guess some way
from Houston, too close to it myself! you are right about the crime wave, up just about everywhere. have your kids told you what Sugarland and Ft. Bend County are like now?
Anyway, nobody is going to hire a medical Transcriptionist with 143 days experience on her resume and I don't feel inclined to hire a president with that, either.
Immigration is not the problem; invasion is, lawbreakers are a problem. We just had a pastor on TV in Houston who has had 5 wrecks, all caused by uninsured motorists and that is the least of it. I personally have seen what is happening to our ER's, unfortunately, the media says little about it. I understand 87 hospitals in southern California have folded. No private hospital can withstand the onslaught of all this clinic business. But, of course, the actual clinics designed for this are only open during regular business hours. Well, just a few thoughts of mine.
To Guess Who?
Sam,
Here, here! Couldn't have said it better myself! We ALL have our own personal experiences with illegals. Where is the mention of all the illegals that come here with drugs, and murder and rape our people?! Did I mention the pedophiles?! Just watch the news and it's all over the place! Just yesterday, they were talking about an illegal from Mexico in SanFrancisco that killed a father and his 2 boys, over a traffic incident!!!??? He was part of a gang! He previously was in trouble with the law before, and nothing was done! Now 3 people are dead, and a wife and 2 other children are forever torn apart by this low-life piece of sh*T that couldn't care LESS about life, liberty, and the pursuit!!!! Same story just a few months ago in LA. Another gang member (illegal) shot a young teen and he is now dead! These are just 2 of the MANY stories out there! Even the people that are coming here "for a better life", I can understand that. What I don't understand is them coming here and getting FREE medical, FREE housing, etc. etc. etc.... Why the hell are THEY entitled, but we, as natural-born citizens are not, because we may "make too much money?!" My dad is 62 years old, and probably will work till the day he dies, because he isn't "entitled" to any of this, he doesn't have savings or 401K to fall back on. My husband busts his butt, and pays a LOT of $ every month so that we all have medical, why? so they can come here and drop a kid for free, at the expense of OUR tax dollars?! BS!!! You wanna come here, fine! Then WORK for your OWN medical, housing, food, etc. etc.! I agree with the above, as for the lawbreakers, molesters, murderers, gang-bangers, let them all rot on an island together! And don't come here and wave your Mexican flag, or any other flag for that matter! If you went to other countries with your American flag, you would most likely be shot!
So please, Guess Who, get a grip and a life!
To everyone else, have a lovely day!
Guess what?! At 17, you should not
be having sex! Duh! My mother started working outside the home when I was 12. She gave me VALUES of responsibility, of self-respect, and the consequences of my actions. I never had to be told not to have premarital sex. Unreal! If this stuff was coming out about Chelsey Clinton, you all would be all over it! What a meltdown!
You must be, I guess....nm
x
THough I guess they won't be able to use them...
if we have two women running next time...lol. Guess I can put a big red X through "him" and write on "her." lol.
Well, then I guess I have a very
simple view of politics. I would think that if a bad bill is being put on the table, that enough politicians will see that it is bad and will vote against it, i.e. the bailout bill.
I guess that's just too simple. Agree to disagree.
I guess we will have to.............. sm
learn to say "Do you want fries with that?"
I'd say LOL if it weren't such a scary prospect.
Nothing to guess about. s/m
They'll be crying about their bottom line profit which they will pass down to consumers and they'll lay everyone off so they can send the jobs overseas. No guess about it. Then they'll cry some more when no one has any money to buy their overpriced stuff.
Well, guess I can guess! what it says.
We had several Cubans come over here back in the late 60's, all close friends, one a doctor who warned all of us then where medicine was going and he was right on the money. They fled Cuba for their lives at the time. I am watching my country unravel and there is not a dang thing I can do about it outside of this one vote.
My guess is...and only a guess....
because SS is in such pitiful shape now, this will take the place of it for those of us still working...while we continue to pay for those who are on social security NOW (with our payroll taxes) because in a congress in times past Democrats decided to "borrow" from social security and never paid it back. Liberal socialist ideas NEVER work. And people keep voting them in anyway and blaming it on Republicans. LOL. Like mice on a treadmill. Sigh.
Well, then, I guess we should
keep the 10 Commandments in church too. Then we could just go around raping, killing, stealing, lying, whatever we felt like doing. I believe 76 some odd percent of the U.S. describes their religion as Christianity. We let Madeline O'Hair or whatever her name is take away prayer in schools, etc. etc. I am sick to death of this p.c. stuff. If someone wants to be an atheist or muslim or what the heckfire ever, let 'em be. If they don't want to participate with the MAJORITY then I don't know of any law that makes them.
Guess who said this
"we're set up, unlike other states in the union, where it's collectively Alaskans own the resources. So we share in the wealth when the development of these resources occurs."
The New Yorker Magazine
This is not an opinion, simply a quote.
My guess would be..............sm
just like the rest of the sheeple, they have been duped into believing this man will turn the economy around with his smoke-and-mirrors approach to healing the financial condition of this country, which in turn benefits them as the money is redistributed back up to the top. Who do you think will ultimately benefit from Obmama's plan. That's right..the rich...as the lower and middle class have more disposable income, the money will trickle right back up to the top.
my guess is a lot of them
x
I guess a lot of them
Question: I would like to know who "them" are?
Well, I guess you don't but
at least if you see it alive you know if it is sick. I posted earlier about chickens. I promise you if you ever saw the LIVE chickens loaded in the crates on the truck headed for the slaughter house you would NEVER EVER eat another chicken And that's a pretty site compared to the inside of a 500 foot chicken house where hundreds of chickens are raised never seeing the sunlight and standing toe to toe in their own excrement. Well.....get the picture? But by the time they get to the grocery store all neatly packaged...........want me to tell you where they get the cut up chickens, breasts, thighs, legs, wings? No? I didn't think so.
I guess it's okay then............sm
especially in light of the fact they were serving coffee! LOL
guess not................sm
ms, but I guess we will all get a bowl of that ice cream now.
I think she did just guess also (sm)
I know she had been reading some articles in political magazines about him, not Muslim magazines. So that part probably should not have even been mentioned in my post, as I think it had nothing to do with it. She is not Muslim. She is not religious at all I don't think. She was a coworker I enjoyed talking with but since I went back home to work I haven't talked to her much so have not discussed it with her recently. She and her husband consider themselves African-American although she is a mixed race. So she may have been following his progress because of that, not sure.
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