But the conversation is about kids who are having
Posted By: wannie on 2008-10-31
In Reply to: so you think the doctor is going to let me walk out and not pay? - Amanda
things done without the parents' knowledge.
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I have been following the conversation. sm
I think Marylandgal is extremely defensive in her posting. I also KNOW she does not speak for all Jews. Having said that, it's really easy to weasel out of an argument by invoking the specter or something horrible...Hitler usually works really well, or the KKK. Then you are an anti-Semite or a racist. It's a shameful way to argue but SOME liberals do it a lot.
This conversation is going nowhere.
And I am sure that the rabbis who attended were not the only ones who agree with them. As with any other exploratory meeting, not everyone attends. I am happy that THESE rabbis and Ben Stein as well choose life and interpret their religious teachings to choose life. It's unfortunate that you don't feel the same.
Won't go there? Isn't the conversation about...
impeaching George Bush? I said impeach him already. If what Kucinich has is dam*ing and he can prove any of it, why don't they just impeach? What part of that don't you understand?? What is it you want me to say and why is my comfort zone so all consuming to you? LOL.
It was on the old board, it was a conversation you had with Nan. SM
and it was about Affirmative Action. I remember it well because it was very long and civil exchange between the two of you back when I thought you could be reasoned with. Nan said something about you have a different perspective and something like she could not challenge you from an African American point of view, I don't remember all the details, because you were African American at which point you said something like, what makes you think I am African American and she said, she thought you had said you were and you said I didn't say that because I am not. Now this is not word for word but it is the gist of it. Remember now?
I thought you were done with the conversation? sm
But when you got some back up you wanted to throw in a little more sarcasm? Well I am behind on my work now because I spent to much time talking to you. I can't change your mind, so I am just going to leave you alone.
This conversation reminds me of...(sm)
an event that took place during the Iraq war (not sure of the date, but I'm sure some of you will remember it). There was an Iraqi child who was (as well as many others) caugt in a bombing raid. It was all over the news about how the US military had given him provisional care and transported him from place to place, trying to get him to a place where he could be treated appropriately. Unfortunately (like many other Iraqi civilians) he eventually died. This in itself was not that remarkable, especially considering at the time the US was lobbing bombs into Iraq with the precision of a pumpkin-chunkin contest. What was remarkable, however, was when the doctor who was caring for the child came out and told the news of his death to the world. There were several questions entertained by the doctor from reporters, but the one that really struck home for me was one from a US reporter. The question was, do you think the boy understood what we are trying to do here? The boy that died was all of about 4 or 5 years old.
Not long after, the US decided to not show casualties in the news. The government unfortunately was right in assuming the out of sight, out of mind thing would work. It's amazing just how naive Americans can be.
This is a perfect example of what you would call American pride, honor, etc. Nevermind the people who die, just make sure we look good doing it. Again, I am not negating the value of the American soldiers here, they are simply doing what they've been told to do.
When you talk about soldiers helping the Iraqi people, exactly how are they helping them? Are they bringing them food and medicine because we have destroyed their infrastructure? Are they helping them find a place to stay because their house played catch with a US missle? Or are we just taking care of their kids because we took mommy and daddy to a torture camp? Believe me, we are doing much more harm than help. Have you noticed that Iraqi civilian casualties far outnumber the casualties of American soldiers? Where's the help for that?
And yes, I did have someone serving in Iraq.
This conversation reminds me of...(sm)
an event that took place during the Iraq war (not sure of the date, but I'm sure some of you will remember it). There was an Iraqi child who was (as well as many others) caugt in a bombing raid. It was all over the news about how the US military had given him provisional care and transported him from place to place, trying to get him to a place where he could be treated appropriately. Unfortunately (like many other Iraqi civilians) he eventually died. This in itself was not that remarkable, especially considering at the time the US was lobbing bombs into Iraq with the precision of a pumpkin-chunkin contest. What was remarkable, however, was when the doctor who was caring for the child came out and told the news of his death to the world. There were several questions entertained by the doctor from reporters, but the one that really struck home for me was one from a US reporter. The question was, do you think the boy understood what we are trying to do here? The boy that died was all of about 4 or 5 years old.
Not long after, the US decided to not show casualties in the news. The story above may have contributed to this, but the basic idea was that Americans didn't like to see Americans dead. The government unfortunately was right in assuming the out of sight, out of mind thing would work. It's amazing just how naive Americans can be.
This is a perfect example of what you would call American pride, honor, etc. Nevermind the people who die, just make sure we look good doing it. Again, I am not negating the value of the American soldiers: they are simply doing what they've been told to do.
When you talk about soldiers helping the Iraqi people, exactly how are they helping them? Are they bringing them food and medicine because we have destroyed their infrastructure? Are they helping them find a place to stay because their house played catch with a US missle? Or are we just taking care of their kids because we took mommy and daddy to a torture camp? Believe me, we are doing much more harm than help. Have you noticed that Iraqi civilian casualties far outnumber the casualties of American soldiers? Where's the help for that?
And yes, I did have someone serving in Iraq.
And yet you just keep dragging the conversation on and on and on....sm
If you don't want to discuss it on the political board, quit discussing it. 
pays her own kids way? I think that Alaska pays her kids way! nm
x
No, and please don't twist my words. The conversation is sm
that Hitler founded his total belief system on the three pillars I posted here, the first being Jews and Communism. I don't know how much more clear I can be frankly! Where in the world did I EVER say he was sane. I am talking about HISTORY. I am not quite sure what you are talking about!
Did you see the video of the conversation with the Fox reporter?
The BP was not a very nice guy
Nobody asked you to butt out of the conversation.
You are being asked to respect the SEPARATION between the politics board and the faith board. If all you have to offer is religious in nature, your post does not belong here.
This breaking news just in....religion and politics are only as "intricately intertwined" as the secular among us allow it to be. There seems to be a consensus in America as there is in other western nations that the two do not mix well and certainly are not conducive to democratic process. I am neither atheist, agnostic or Christian, but I do consider myself to be a spiritual person of Universalist faith. I count myself among the secular citizens who will fight tooth and nail to keep religion out of politics and out of the government. There is a place for it in our society and in our lives...churches, synagogues, mosques, temples our homes and in our psyches. Why is that not enough for the theocrats? This constant push to pervade is a REAL LIVE BUMMER. Cease and desist, won't you?
I was making reference to an earlier conversation...sm
Look it up.
Hey...this whole thing started when YOU interrupted a conversation...
but I suppose you don't remember that...because you can't resist the knife jab. Yeah, transparent. How does your monstrous ego fit in yer little old head??
Barack says we need to have a conversation about race in America.?
Buchanan to Obama
By Patrick J. Buchanan
Barack says we need to have a conversation about race in America.?
Fair enough. But this time, it has to be a two-way conversation. White America needs to be heard from, not just lectured to.
This time, the Silent Majority needs to have its convictions, grievances and demands heard. And among them are these:
First, America has been the best country on earth for black folks. It was here that 600,000 black people, brought from Africa in slave ships, grew into a
community of 40 million, were introduced to Christian salvation, and reached the greatest levels of freedom and prosperity blacks have ever known.
Wright ought to go down on his knees and thank God he is an American.
Second, no people anywhere has done more to lift up blacks than white Americans. Untold trillions have been spent since the ླྀs on welfare, food stamps, rent supplements, Section 8 housing, Pell grants, student loans, legal services, Medicaid, Earned Income Tax Credits and poverty programs designed to bring the African-American community
into the mainstream.
Governments, businesses and colleges have engaged in discrimination against white folks -- with affirmative action, contract set-asides and quotas -- to advance black applicants over white applicants.
Churches, foundations, civic groups, schools and individuals all over America have donated time and money to support soup kitchens, adult education, day care, retirement and nursing homes for blacks.
We hear the grievances. Where is the gratitude??
Barack talks about new 'ladders of opportunity' for blacks.
Let him go to Altoona and Johnstown, and ask the white kids in Catholic schools how many were visited lately by Ivy League recruiters handing out scholarships for 'deserving' white kids.?
Is white America really responsible for the fact that the crime and inca rceration rates for African-Americans are seven times those of white America? Is it really white America's fault that illegitimacy in the African-American community has hit 70 percent and the black dropout rate from high schools in some cities has reached 50 percent?
Is that the fault of white America or, first and foremost, a failure of the black community itself?
As for racism, its ugliest manifestation is in interracial crime, and especially interracial crimes of violence. Is Barack Obama aware that while white criminals choose black victims 3 percent of the time, black criminals choose white victims 45 percent of the time?
Is Barack aware that black-on-white rapes are 100 times more common than the reverse, that black-on-white robberies were 139 times as common in the first three years of this decade as the reverse?
We have all heard adnauseam from the Rev. AL about Tawana Brawley, the Duke rape case and Jena. And all turned out to be hoaxes. But abo UT the epidemic of black assaults on whites that are real, we hear nothing.
Sorry, Barack, some of us have heard it all before, about 40 years and 40 trillion tax dollars ago.
topics to avoid during polite conversation.
We do have separation of church and state.
The conversation took place during the primary season
If they had a casual conversation on these issues before any official selections were even possible, they would have been purely speculative, dontcha think? During the heat of the primary compaign, HC would have been the last person he would have had in mind for either position. Sounds like a fairly innocent chat between friends to me.
Lack of intelligent conversation on your part
nm
If you want to have a private conversation with JTBB, take it off-line.
If you post to the forum, it's fair game for anyone.
Oh, and incidentally, if I felt comfortable posting my CV on a public forum, you'd be very embarassed by the "clueless" characterization.
The article posted is not the complete conversation. Ever hear of Freakanomics? sm
That has a lot to do with the conversation. As usual, the MSM left out significant parts of what was said. No surprise there.
Go ahead. Let's bring Reverend Wright back into the conversation...
and Jesse Jacksin (hymietown) and Louis Farrakhan...yeah, let's bring that back into the conversation. If Barack can claim he went to that church for 20 years but doesn't share the theology...so can she, right?
If you are going to fry her now, let's go back to Reverend Wright. You betcha!!
Since you're having this conversation with yourself, including my side of it, pray continue.
X
possible topics of conversation besides bashing our very popular president in the interest of preven
http://www.npr.org/
His Kids
I know the "C" story is true. As far as the kids go, he has 7 from what I understand. Two boys in the military and 1 or 2 adopted kids. I stated an opinion about his daughters because any man that would disrespect women the way he has (letting "H" be called the "B" word, laughing and not speaking against it, and then calling his wife a "C" publically), has no respect for women (which include his daughters). Then he comes out with this fake persona that he respects women and he welcomes their vote. Please --- anything to win.
We really would not have know about the kids other than
Palin herself putting them before the public like she did, kept the smaller 1 out of school and people questioned as to why they were not in school. Oh, now it is ne're-do-well beau. I remember what a warm reception he got from John welcoming him into the circle. All white trash, both sides.
Now really, kids!!
I think a lot of it has to do with the attempt to incite violence. While Olberman, Maddow, and the MSNBC crew may be left of center, they don't incite violence. Nor do I think Hannity falls into that category, either. Rush, Rev. Phelps, and Michael Savage are names that immediately pop into my head on the conservative end that seem to like to stir up crap. On the other side, I really wish we could find a way to export Sharpton, but I doubt any other country wants him anymore than I do.
Of course, WE are the country that denied Cat Stevens entrance, too, so I guess we can't get too holier than thou about Britain's keeping out the rabble rousers.
Kids - this is funny.
When Vífill Atlason, a 16-year-old high school student from Iceland, decided to call the White House, he could not imagine the kind of publicity it would bring.
Introducing himself as Ólafur Ragnar Grímsson, the actual president of Iceland, Atlason found President George W. Bush's allegedly secret telephone number and phoned, requesting a private meeting with him.
"I just wanted to talk to him, have a chat, invite him to Iceland and see what he'd say," Vífill told ABC News.
A White House official, who asked not to be identified, denied the young man had accessed a private number but instead dialled 202-456-1414, the main switchboard for the West Wing.
Vífill's mother, Harpa Hreinsdottir, a teacher at the local high school, said her son did, in fact, get through to a private phone.
"This was not a switchboard number of any kind," she told ABC News, "it was a secret number at the highest security level."
Vífill claims he was passed on to several people, each of them quizzing him on President Grímsson's date of birth, where he grew up, who his parents were and the date he entered office.
"It was like passing through checkpoints," he said. "But I had Wikipedia and a few other sites open, so it was not so difficult really."
When he finally got through to President Bush's secretary, Vífill alleges he was told to expect a call back from Bush.
"She told me the president was not available at the time, but that she would mark it in his schedule to call me back on Monday evening," he said.
Instead, the police showed up at his home in Akranes, a fishing town about 48 kilometers from Reykjavik, and took him to the local police station, where they questioned the 16-year-old for several hours.
"The police chief said they were under orders from U.S. officials to "find the leak" -- that I had to tell them where I had found the number," he said. "Otherwise, I would be banned from ever entering the United States."
Vífill claims he cannot remember where he got the number.
"I just know I have had it for a few years," he told ABC. "I must have gotten it from a friend when I was about 11 or 12."
Atlason's mother Harpa, who was not home at the time, said she was shocked to find her son had been taken away by the police but could not quite bring herself to be angry with her son.
"He's very resourceful you know," she said. "He has become a bit of a hero in Iceland. Bush is very unpopular here."
Vífill was eventually released into his parent's custody, and no charges have been brought against the high school student.
When ABC verified the number, it was the Secret Service Uniform Division, which handles security for the president.
"If the number were not top secret, why would the police have told me that I will be put on a no-fly list to America?" Vífill asked.
"I don't see how calling the White House is a crime," he added. "But obviously, they took it very seriously."
Calls to the Secret Service press office were not returned.
Maybe the kind that has 3 kids
already and the 4th pregnancy could put her life in peril. Does she allow her other children to go motherless?
Maybe the kind who underwent extensive testing and was told that her child would be born limbless or so developmentally delayed that any kind of life would be miserable?
Maybe the kind who was raped and does not want to bear the child of a rapist, whether she would be able to put the child up for adoption or not.
A woman's body is her body. No one should have the right to tell her what to do with it. There are many reasons to have an abortion. I personally feel that in the above cases, an abortion is a reasonable option. I certainly wouldn't wish any of the scenarios above on anyone. Outlawing abortion in general is wrong. If you want to prevent it from being used as a form of birth control, then by all means put limitations on it, but don't outlaw it completely. Sometimes it is the only choice.
Not pro-abortion but definitely pro-choice. There is a difference.
THis is not about taking anything away from kids...they
still have access to birth control...health departments, planned parenthood, clinics, any number of places. It is common knowledge. You hear about it on television on a daily basis, and television, movies, and the internet are where most kids get their information. And frankly, listen to it much more closely than to their parents. Throwing more federal money into any kind of sex ed and/or abstinence programs to me is a waste of money. That was the original question, did I think federal funds should be used for sex ed and abstinence programs.
No, in this culture we live in today, to remove contraception would be idiotic. Sex has been reduced to "expression," having one partner for life has disappeared, multiple partners are fine, yada yada...in that kind of culture to remove birth control would be nuts. Think what the abortion rate would be if that was done...good grief.
By education and programs that doesn't mean dispensing actual birth control. At many schools kids can get condoms. Nearly every health department in the country will dispense birth control and any planned parenthood place will, and that is not going to change.
If you want to reach kids, put those programs on the internet or introduce that kind of information to the shows the kids watch all the time. If you want the information to get to them, that is where it should be covered.
almost 700 kids in 1 cemetary
http://www.careforkidsnow.com/index_files/news.htm
http://www.arcticbeacon.com/articles/14-Mar-2007.html
If what kids see is what they think is normal
then where did the gay people come from, assuming they had both a father and a mother?
On another note, I would rather have been raised by Rosie O'Donnell and her partner than my dysfunctional parents. They are much more "normal" than either of my parents.
The UN is not trying to tell anyone how to raise their kids.
in the idea of addressing global poverty. BTW, you need to do a little boning up yourself on the purpose of the United Nations, what it is, how it works and who benefits before expecting anybody anywhere to engage you in any serious debate on this subject. You have been spending way too much time hanging with the fringe. Trust me on this. There is life after fringe.
Why don't you let your kids decide for themselves
what they want to do. I'm glad I had responsible parents who taught me right from wrong, watched me grow, get married, but I also know that if I wanted to be gay they would love me still the same.
Unfortunately too many parents try to control every single aspect of their kids life, and the kids grow up as biggoted and unloving as their parents. Of course I'm not saying that is you, but you just see it too many times on TV.
Parents believe one thing, so they force their kids to believe the same thing, when all along the parents were pretty messed up.
You need to teach your kids on the different lifestyles people in America have and that's why it makes a great nation (or would you rather have the public floggings of gays like they do in the other countries because they don't share the same viewpoints as you). You need to teach your kids the different lifestyles and what it means as a lifestyle for them. Then let them make their own decisions as to what life they wish to choose for themselves.
You need to stop telling people to get a clue because you obviously don't have one.
Hey Kids! Run for President!
But if you screw up we will prosecute you and make sure you're labeled a criminal the rest of your life!!!
I hardly think that teaching kids...(sm)
how NOT to bash LGBTs is going to "force homosexuality upon your kids." Give me a break! They aren't teaching Peter how to kiss Paul. They're teaching Peter how not to beat up Paul. I think it's really sad that this actually has to be a lessen in school in the first place, and in grammar school at that --- not because of the LGBT issues being brought to light, but because of the parents who have obviously taught their kids that its okay to bash others who are different. How many times have you called an LGBT a bad name in front of your kids? Hmmm....
Lets take care of those kids already here
Some have such loud voices when trying to stop a woman from chosing what decisions to make about HER body but, yet, you hear nothing from these same people when it is shown there is so much child abuse, children living with drug and alcohol addicted parents, children living in poverty, not getting a good education, not getting the immunizations they need, not getting health care, on and on. Lets take care of those already on this earth..
I guess you can't think for yourself. I suppose the kids that just
got arrested for setting churches on fire were *indoctrinated* even though 2 of them are from a Methodist college? I guess it goes you show YOU fear *indoctriation* because you can't think for yourself.
It can end with affordable healthcare for kids.
I would like to see more affordable healthcare for all Americans, but really if kids got free or very affordable healthcare I would be happy. We spend outrageous amounts of money on the space program, the war, gourmet food for Congress, etc. I don't agree with the hoards of money going to those things, but I would think we could ALL AGREE on money being redirected to provide healthcare to all American children, because that is obviously a good and just cause.
Kids from families making as much as $83,000
Bush was lying about that, as the $83,000 income level limit was not a part of the bill that he vetoed. Also, Democrats already worked with Republicans and compromised quite a bit to come up with a bill that many in both parties agreed upon - too bad only one guy matters, huh? It's a sad day for many struggling middle-class families, but at least the issue has had a big spot light shined upon it - hopefully we can make some much-needed changes to make healthcare more affordable now. All kids deserve healthcare, regardless of how much money their parents make or don't make!!!
Here's a section of a New York Times Article that states that the $83,000 guideline was not a part of the bill that was just vetoed:
"This program expands coverage, federal coverage, up to families earning $83,000 a year. That doesn't sound poor to me," the president told the Lancaster audience.
Dorn says that's not exactly right, either. "This bill would actually put new limits in place to keep states from going to very high-income levels. SCHIP money would no longer be available over 300 percent of the federal poverty level, which is about $60,000 for a family of four."
The president gets to make the $83,000 claim because New York had wanted to allow children in families with incomes up to four times the poverty level onto the program. That is, indeed, $82,600. The Department of Health and Human Services rejected New York's plan last month, and under the bill, that denial would stand. White House officials warn, however, that the bill would allow a future administration to grant New York's request.
link to the entire article: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=14962685
She has raised most all her kids while in some form...
of public service. I think she is fully capable of raising this one. I see no evidence to the contrary.
Come on now...are you saying that if the Obamas had a down's child and he was elected that Michelle should just stay in the white house and raise him and not do what the first ladies normally do? They travel, they give speeches, yada yada.
Palin's husband will be of help. It's not like she is going to be in DC, just she and Trig with no help whatsoever.
Yes, he is a down's baby, but he is perfectly healthy in every other way.
And where are your kids while you're online?
No mother can devote 24/7 to their child, Down or not. I know people with Down children and they work, also. There are wonderful programs to enroll children in, too, and believe me, those mothers NEED a break sometimes. I'm sorry, but I do not believe for one second that someone with children is not capable of a political career. Maybe her husband plans to be home with the children, ever think of that? There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, either. A father is JUST as important in a child's life and development.
What about parents who don't discuss with their kids?
And so you know right off, I'm not a Barack fan nor McCain fan. However, my own personal beliefs aside, I believe "it takes a village to raise a child" and there are FAR too many parents NOT doing their jobs these days, which forces schools, governments, etc. to jump in to help. I see far too many parents who'd just as soon go to the bar than raise their child. There are parents who are apathetic, and there are parents who are embarrassed or ill-informed themselves to teach their kids sex ed. I don't think sex ed is a problem at all in school, so long as it's in the context of health education and not presented to students in a biased manner of some sort. It IS how mammals reproduce and therefore does have a place in education.
God gave us free will and if you try to control the free will of someone else, how is that right? I believe in consequences of free will when someone chooses wrong, which is why we have laws in place. I don't believe it's any one person's or party's place to tell another how to live their life, period.
Personally, I'd like to see more parents do their jobs at home so gov't and schools didn't have to do it for them (and all the rest of us too as a result), and sure, ideally I'd like to see more kids abstaining from sex altogether. But I'm also a realist and know that my beliefs and willpower aren't the same as everyone else's. That's what is supposed to be great about USA.
The reality is that not all kids have the willpower to abstain in the heat of the moment, no matter WHAT their upbringing or what wonderful parents they have. As you said, it's everywhere - on TV, movies, ads, games, you name it! It's in their face now more than ever, so to ignore it and act like it won't ever happen isn't the answer, either. No, I don't know what the answer is, either, but I don't think that's it.
Also, to take away any access to sex ed and/or birth control at all is in a sense forcing the ideals/morals of one group of people on another and basically taking the free will of the other group - how do you reconcile that? I'm being sincere, as this question plagues me often when considering these issues.
Nancy Pelosi has 5 kids....
maybe she should have aborted a couple? Geez.
Wow. What kind of world do we want for our kids?
You are a real piece of work. Are you a Christian?
I know plenty of kids in our schools who would
@
Obama's Web Site for Kids...
http://my.barackobama.com/page/s/thetalk
A website for kids unable to vote...
We need change - blind loyalty?????
When I saw the video of the kids singing....
and of those boys in fatigues doing their routine....it does remind you of the newsreel footage of the "Hitler youth." Not comparing Obama to Hitler, but the PHENOMENON of Obama. Hitler so mesmerized people he convinced them that Jews were the cause of all their problems...and the people bought it. Using the same old socialist techniques...you find the weakness, the thing that enrages people...and you put a face on it. With Obama it is class warfare. With Hitler it was warfare against Jews. The similarities ARE eery. And it is NOT comparing Obama to Hitler per se...just the phenomenon of Obama followers and Hitler's National Socialist Party. 'Nuff to make the hair on the back of your neck stand up.
Kids are meaner than adults
Talk about a jungle where only the strong survive - makes this board look like a tea party with the queen of England.
I think it would be good for kids to do something constructive -
why would you not want your kids to volunteer in the community to do positive things that would also pay them for college in the long run? And why such bitterness about the fact that he is proposing that idea?
It is not mandatory, so it is your choice, but the country is falling apart because nobody wants to do anything anymore!
My kids do community service
They have participated in numerous community service programs and projects, from collecting and packing items for the homeless to refurbishing parks. They ask to participate in them based on the listings in our newspaper. How very sad for your children that you would not allow them to feel invested in their community and would deny them the wonderful feeling that comes from helping others.
if kids are forced to do it, then adults should be too
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