I personally don't agree with your post here.

Many of us on this board don't mind helping those who are trying to help themselves and just need a little help. However, I do have a problem supporting and paying for people who refuse to work, educate themselves, etc. If they aren't willing to try, why should we have to pay for them. That is the problem. If we were really all in it together, that would be different but you have people on one side who don't want to work and just want a free ride and you have the other side that is trying to work to support themselves but are told we should support the people who don't want to work either. That is just crap.

So don't say I lack compassion. I have compassion for people who are trying and need help. However, I have no compassion for lazy weasels who would rather get a check in the mail for doing nothing than actually work a day in their life and earn their own way.

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I think gay marriage is wrong. I would not mind a civil union so much but to me....marriage is a sacred thing between a man and woman. It is bad enough that marriage between some men and women isn't taken as seriously as it used to be and that alone saddens me.

I truthfully am sick and tired of having homosexuality shoved down my throat everyday. These protests that are more riot like than actual protests, gay people knocking a cross out of an older woman's hand while she was civilly showing her point of view and was attacked for it. The public displays in church of kissing and dancing around. The spray painting of buildings and churches. It is just ridiculous. Acting like immature and childish brats does not warrant you the right to get married. I think I might have more compassion for them if they did not act like they have since voters voted against gay marriage in California.

I have some gay friends who are even ashamed by the stupidity of other gay people who act in such a manner.

This is just something that I will never condone nor be happy with. I do not hate homosexuals nor am I a homophobe.......this is just a lifestyle that I cannot approve of. We are all entitled to our opinions on this subject....so please no bashing of me just because I was honest about my view points. Whether or not you agree with me....fine. We will just have to agree to disagree.

Where did you get your debating skills? On the south side of Chicago in some street gang? Because if you did, it shows.

In a REAL debate, there is no room or tolerance for personal attacks. Yet, that's all you people know how to do. You can't stay on the issue. You MUST attack the poster personally, claiming to know not only what they think and feel but also claiming to know what every liberal ever thought or did, what they're thinking and doing right now and what they will be thinking and doing for the next 1,000 years. In fact, you seem to know everything about anything that ever existed on the planet, exists now or will exist into infinity.

As I (and others) have said repeatedly and you just can't seem to grasp, if you constantly treat people badly, they're not going to want to associate with you. Lurker was very gracious in her posts to all of you on your board, but even she, in the end, couldn't tolerate your continued, nonstop, personal attacks any more (as she indicated in her responses to the attackers). If you ever stop knowing it all and become interested in the proper way of debating someone, you could learn a lot from Lurker. You see, having *thick skin* is only important if you're a thug in a gang somewhere. It's irrelevant when it comes to treating humans like humans, and in that area, you have a lot to learn.

As for me, I like to learn from intelligent, friendly people with different political views, so I visit boards where those kinds of people are found. Not all conservatives are angry, rude, come out swinging and need to personally attack 1,000% of the time. Some of them are actually quite nice and informative, and they can be found on other forums. Too bad they can't be found on MTStars.

possible to have an intelligent debate by both sides, but maybe just not on these particular boards unless you can just learn to sift through the posts that are less than informative.

Some of us came from another board, and there are a couple of posters from the other board who simply cannot tolerate views that are different from their own. If they can't debate without resorting to personal attacks and have even "adjusted" the facts on occasion to fit their particular need to prove a point about how bad liberals are.

They attack in groups reminiscent of hornets, and then they routinely whine and complain to the administrator, stomping their feet like 2-year-olds, and their targets are either banned or messages like the one today from the administrator appear.

If we all stay on our own boards, of course, there's not much opportunity for debate because we all come from the general same place. I saw an excellent post on the Conservative board by someone who intelligently set forth her views, without any personal swipes and/or attacks, without passing any judgment on anyone. I didn't agree with some the poster's views, but I did compliment her on the excellent way in which she portrayed them. I haven't seen any posts from her since, and even though I don't agree with her, I would love to see some more of her posts because I learned something from it. That particular poster definitely gained my respect. I hope the few who don't command much respect didn't chase her away. I noticed that none of them even bothered to acknowledge her post, and she seemed to be just as conservative as they were. People with thoughtful, intelligent posts like hers, unfortunately, are few and far between and are overrun by the negative juvenile ones, as I'm sure you can see just from visiting both boards. I hope she reads this post and decides to visit this board.

This is our country, and a lot of us think it's in a huge mess. Whether we're Conservatives or Liberals or somewhere in between, it's up to us to each think independently and speak for ourselves, even in a forum such as this, and to question what we perceive as right/wrong, explain it in an intelligent, coherent, truthful manner, and debate it in a healthy, nonjudgmental way. If we can't even do that on the most basic of forums like this, we might be in deeper trouble than any of us could have thought.

What would be the harm in teaching creationalism in school? Just as most apparently see no harm in teaching evolution. Teach them both, let the kids decide what they believe.

My personal belief is creationalism, but this is not the issue of my post, I just don't see what the harm is in teaching both sides and letting the kids decide for themselves, after having all the facts...

Other than this, I agree 100% with your post, including the part about the pregnant daughter. I feel more comfortable knowing that Palin is facing the same issues *real* people face every day. She and Senator McCain most definitely have my vote!

It's not all his fault that this country is the way it is. Although I wished he could have done a better job, he did the best he could with all the people that were against him.

I listened to a speech he made from the heart a few months ago and he came through very truthful and caring. It was not one of the stupid speeches for him that makes him look dumb.

I wish this stupid partisan politics would be banned but, of course, it won't. As long as the house and senate continue to fight among themselves and against the president (and I don't care who the president is), we are still going to be in a mess.

As long as the media keeps taking sides, we will only ever see the bad of the party they don't like.

As long as people don't research to try to find their own solution on whom to vote for, they will pick a president that is their own party.

A phone call to Doug Dougan yesterday by a lady stated that all her Jewish friends were voting for Obama because they didn't care for McCain. That is the stupidest reason to vote for a candidate. They don't care about the issues, just that they don't like McCain. If other people feel like this, then heaven help us. We'll have to do quite a bit of praying Nov. 4.

McCain is coming to our area on Monday. I called to get tickets yesterday and they were gone already! That's how much people around here care to listen to the issues. Did the O or Biden come here? Nope. Doubt that they will. The last presidential candidate that came to this area was JFK in his first run for president.

Parents don't know how to parent today. My grandson, who just turned 1 is already taking hissy fits if he doesn't get his way; i.e., wants to be held by only mom and dad, wants to get into things that he shouldn't, etc. What do they do? Coax and cajole. No time outs for the fits and of course, grandparents don't know what they're talking about when suggesting things to do.My DIL is mad at me cause I opened my mouth and said "no" to the baby.

I fear more for my grandson's generation than I do my son's, and I also have 2 GC's old enough to vote. Don't know for who but I can guess..

In reply to the Clinton�s had nothing to do with the last 8 years. This is absolutely correct, but the Clinton administration was just as bad before that. The Clinton years were the worst of my adult life (and my friends and family who are staunch democrats). So we�ve actually had 16 years of garbage for Presidents (20 if you consider Bush Sr.). Government grew and paychecks shrunk. Promises broken, tax increases (with the Clinton administration). The Clintons did nothing for the middle income people. Their �1% wealthiest� friends continued to receive more benefits. Our families friends were losing their houses and had to go back to living with their parents as they could no longer afford to live anymore. I think a lot of people forget the following:

Receiving money funded from china (treasonous tradeoffs I think it was called) for his re-election

Bill & Hillary stating they never heard of people (criminals who gave them money) when indeed they have pictures.

Hillary�s financial and other records sealed so nobody would find out the stuff she did (why?)

Hillary pulls Bill off of D. Morris as Bill is getting ready to punch him in the face yelling at him �Bill, think about what your doing�. Then walked around telling D. not to say anything to anyone.

They destroyed and stole white house furniture and artifacts on their way out. Urinated on carpets, walls, etc. It was a real mess to clean up.

And those are only a few of the highlights of the Clinton administration. She wants to take credit for anything good that happened, then she better take credit for the bad too. Especially when she was running the show while Billy was off with his girlfriends.

They are both a couple of criminals and should have gone to jail for half the stuff they did. So while the last eight years have been bad, the previous eight were just as bad. - And all my MIL can say to me is.... "oh but he's so good looking".

I believe most people WANT socialism because they think it will save them and protect them from all the bad things in the world. Just think, free healthcare, free gas, free homes.

I could go on and on, but I have to leave. Pooch wants to go play in the garage. If she doesn't get her way, she starts moaning and groaning.

Anyone who knows me personally knows that when Bush was running for President in 2000, I told everyone I know that if he's elected, we'll find ourselves at war with Iraq. Nobody believed me.

It's ironic that the reason DIDN'T vote for him in 2004 was the very same reason I didn't vote for him in 2000: I was against war with Iraq.

What is particularly troubling about all this is that Bush appeared to use the tragedy of 9/11 to justify his war against Iraq.

It wouldn't surprise me one bit to find that this war will eventually be deemed as an illegal war.

We don't know what al Quaeda will do next. Wouldn't surprise me to discover that they were part of the "hacking" team that got ahold of everyone's credit card numbers the other day.

If Bush cares so much about America, he could begin to show it by monitoring our borders. He's been incredibly negligent in that regard.

He promised he would not impose a draft. Yet, recruitment goals haven't been met for several months now. If I had a child of that age, I certainly would try to talk him/her out of joining the military. The government has proven they lie to soldiers, hold reservists hostage, fail to provide adequate equipment to protect soldiers, etc., etc., etc! He will have to bring back the draft, and we can add that to the gazillion lies he's told.

I think your post was great, and I particularly enjoyed the one regarding Hitler that you wrote above. You nailed it!!!

parents have to consent to ANY OTHER procedure for the child, why would this be any different?

Abortion is a horrible, horrible thing that is used by Planned Parentood to make money and used as birth control.

There are too many people in this country who have the attitude "It's my way or the highway".

The below quotes were sent to me by a friend. I didn't take time to look them up, so they are fair game for anyone who wants to take a shot at them. Sorry for the type style on them. I couldn't seem to make them smaller.

When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe.

Thomas Jefferson

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.
Thomas Jefferson

It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world.

Thomas Jefferson

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
Thomas Jefferson

My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government.
Thomas Jefferson

No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
Thomas Jefferson

To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.
Thomas Jefferson

Very Interesting Quote

In light of the present financial crisis, it's interesting to read what Thomas Jefferson said in 1802:

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."

In every place I go where the pledge is recited ballgames mostly when we got to the words under God it's amplified UNDER GOD!!! That's what I intend on doing even if it becomes illegal. I don't care if they outlaw the word God period I'll shout it from the mountaintops. First of all to glorify my God, and second of all to irritate those who think it's a curse word.

Go ahead sue me...hang me...chop my head off. The best is yet to come for me anyway.

the McCain campaing has set Palin up to be the attacker of Obama's character and let McCain talk about what they will do if they are elected.

As for Palin lying, I do believe that Obama has not been 100% truthful with things brought out about him. He has changed his story several times on different associations and issues and that makes me not trust him.

I do find it interesting that a lot of times what an Obama supporter can say about Palin....a McCain supporter can say about Obama. LOL! Kind of makes you wonder what the heck all of us are thinking really.

One thing that holds true for me in the case of Sarah Palin is that she cut spending in her state. I truly do believe that for the sake our country....we need to cut back on the government pending and this just reinforces my trust in McCain and Palin to do just that. Obama...on the other hand....I believe will not cut back on spending as he has endorsed more pork in his short term in senate than McCain has his entire career.....and that to me says a lot. And that has nothing to do with him being a POW and having the scars to prove it. LOL!

I could not care less so long as they don't mess around with the constitution. I do think, however, that there is much ado about nothing. As for the alleged tax breaks...when my husband and I married we asked my CPA about tax ramifications. He said we would be better off to marry. When we filed our first joint return, the same CPA said he didn't realize how much our income was and that in fact, marrying was the worst thing we could do tax-wise. So if gays/lesbians want to marry for tax purposes, they had better take a good hard look at where the marriage will put them.

I don't know that there's anything legal/illegal about it but I expect that in the case of serious illness or injury a significant other would not be kept from the bedside.

My husband and I used an attorney to draw up papers (forget what they are called) that directs everything that could possibly be foreseen and the cost was something like $350. That would work just as well for gays/lesbians I would think.

We have a gay couple in our community, also biracial. They moved here from another state. Both wear wedding rings, I have no idea what it symbolizes, haven't asked. One is rather elderly and has relatives here but they accept the significant other and everyone just goes about their business.

Gay/lesbian relations are not new, it goes all the way back to biblical times. I don't lean in that direction myself so I do not know anything about it, whether it is a choice or people are born with that bend. I just have a hard time with God saying that it is an abomination for a man to lie with a man as with a woman and then that He would turn around and cause people to be born with this kind of sexual orientation. That being said, let them do what they will, it is between them and God. Like religion and politics, they don't need to try to shove it down the throats of the majority who are heterosexual.

that Jesse Jackson is a detriment to the black community. Surely there has to be someone better to represent and stand up for the black community. If a white person made the general comments that Jesse Jackson does......the black community would scream racism. His own son spoke negatively about his father and his comment.

I personally don't feel that there will ever be equality between the races because people are constantly wanting to point the finger at the other race. Do I want equality....yes...of course I do. I have many black friends who are great people that I care about. But until we stop pointing the finger at the other race, it won't stop. Prejudice and racism is on both sides. It isn't just the white folks or the black people.....it is on both sides and until people stop and realize that and learn to forgive and forget and be accepting.......it won't change.

As for Bill Cosby, I loved watching the Bill Cosby Show when I was younger, but the more I learn about Bill......the more I think he is a huge bigot.

failure in our government is a failure on both sides. This isn't strictly dems, although dems control the congress, and this isn't strictly reps even though the pres is a rep. I think they should all stop pointing fingers as what is done is done and find a solution that will benefit the tax payers and not line the crooks' pockets with money anymore than they already are.

As for McCain....no matter what....at least he had the balls to say....HEY...we have a problem here. That is more than other politicians have done who benefited from FMFM money.

pub or dem, who benefited from this should be the ones financially responsible to repair it. But that isn't going to happen and I'm sick of hearing about who's responsible for it. What about the homeowners who applied for these mortgages that they knew they couldn't afford? I hold them responsible. What about the banks who gave them the loan, knowing they could never repay it, but didn't care because they were just going to sell it? I hold them responsible. What about the CEOs who made millions on their severenace packages when they walked away from these failing companies? I hold them responsible. I don't care what party they are affiliated with. But the fact is, no one person is going to be held accountable. As a whole, the taxpayers will be made to be responsible.

You talk a good game and some of what you say makes sense. Unfortunately, you have to read through all the pub/dem cr@p to really get to what you're saying. Are you going to try to tell me that not 1 single pub had anything to do with any of this? That it all rests on the individual dems? Come on -- that's a load of bull and you know it.