Home     Contact Us    
Main Board Job Seeker's Board Job Wanted Board Resume Bank Company Board Word Help Medquist New MTs Classifieds Offshore Concerns VR/Speech Recognition Tech Help Coding/Medical Billing
Gab Board Politics Comedy Stop Health Issues
ADVERTISEMENT




Serving Over 20,000 US Medical Transcriptionists

My point is that prior presidents have had their day..sm

Posted By: Democrat on 2005-09-21
In Reply to: Good dodge, but it doesn't let you off the hook with regards to the point - being made here. nm

and time when they were covered in mud and IMHO none of it is right, except to say in most cases the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

But, to answer Jeb's and Bush's family mishaps with the what about the Kennedy's line is dodging the point to me.

Bringing up the Lynch and Dean ordeal that's something worth listening to, but you guys just can't let go of old democratic presidents. It's like a thorn still sticking in your side. Everytime something comes up with Bush, you talk about Clinton, or even the Kennedy's, as if that dismisses Bush somehow. Whatever gets you though.


Complete Discussion Below: marks the location of current message within thread

The messages you are viewing are archived/old.
To view latest messages and participate in discussions, select the boards given in left menu


Other related messages found in our database

Presidents have been "slandered" since there's been presidents
President Bush took a beating. And you think Obama is somehow above being criticized???? Funny...
Read prior messages...
Messages seem to say prepared = gun ownership/usage
healthcare a problem prior to THIS war and they did
x
Re: "associations" -- you never answered a prior
Jes' curious............
To answer this I would only repeat my prior statements..nm

Re: "Closing Time" - Was cut off in prior post; please see this one.

This didn't come through very well in my other post.  I'm hoping it's better in this one.  Sorry. 


Closing Time


Jim Kirwan
12-10-8








Since Reagan we've been trying to make "Trickle-Down economics" work: For those to whom promises were made, Trickle- Down has been, not just a failure but it has been the major vehicle responsible for the most massive redistribution of wealth, from the population that has worked toward something, to those that wanted everything. Never has there been such a near total transfer of wealth in the history of the planet. This criminal-conspiracy has done what it was created to do ­ and it must be terminated with extreme prejudice, immediately, if we are to survive.


When 'Trickle-Down' was the political-priority of the day, the high-point in prosperity was to become a 'Millionaire.' Forbes magazine tracked those lucky few very carefully. Today Forbes 500 no longer bothers with 'millionaires' because there are just far too many of them-they have become inconsequential. Thanks to "Trickle-Down economics today the heavy-hitters financially are 'Billionaires' and above: which is all you need to know about how well this hostile-takeover of the American economy has worked.


The problem that this transfer of wealth has created has resulted in the Federalization-of-Privatization: As a result we are all facing another huge round of trickle-down economics, but this time it's being cloaked in a series of stealth-protected measures. These new tactics are commonly called BAILOUT or RESCUE packages, and nothing about their origins or their purposes has been made clear to those of us that will be forced to pay tens of trillions for our own destruction.


What's happening is this: First they used compromised laws to squash diversity and opinion within the entire field of communications, under Clinton and Powell's kid that ran the FCC. Together, competition was eliminated and monstrous empires were created that absorbed their competition outright. Once this happened, the entire edifice for total information management was in-place, using household names to lie to the public every minute of every day, whether on television or in print-with very few exceptions. With that completed effort it was easy to move directly onto the openly fascist path to WAR on a variety of fronts, supported and applauded by the very organs that were supposed to question whatever government does, on behalf of the people, as part of their constitutionally protected-jobs as so-called journalists. With the constitution gone, and the only allegiance worthy of that name having become the private for-profit motives that greed and arrogance breeds; in the sewers of those ruined lives where these so-called leaders "live," the current outcome is all that we should have ever expected from these new-age barbarians. (1)


We're still in the Twilight Zone; where Obama is just another man waiting to start a job, except that he seemingly can't wait to begin so he formulates their plans and then rushes to the nearest podium to expound upon the glories of what these programs (or pogroms) are pointedly designed to do; for them and 'to' us. And the sheep wait patiently to board the trains that will take them to the slaughterhouse.


The larger picture has or course remained hidden from the general public. What continues to go unnoticed is the number of profligate cities and towns, not to mention states that will have to be bailed out by the feds. Once this begins to happen, 'the rights' of states will disappear completely along with any independence from the federal-government. Remember the formula upon which bailouts are based: The crucial money provided is conditioned upon a federal "ownership stake" in everything that needs the money, and when this is applied to the states then all they have left to trade with is their broken-economies and their people who shall both become the property of the federal government that is today a private-corporation that serves only the privately-owned central banks and by extension the multi-national corporations. This is about to happen now to several states, including California; the sixth largest economy in the world. (2)


'BTW the "corporation" mentioned above has been bankrupt since 1933, and the result of that bankruptcy is that the USA went into receivership to the privately-owned Federal Reserve. The Dictator was correct when he said: "The constitution is just a goddamned piece of paper," he was actually telling the truth. It was probably the only truthful statement he ever made in nearly eight years.


The owners have simply allowed us to believe we have a constitution. Every law, code and statute world wide is based on the Uniform Commercial Code and has been in place since 1950. Of course no one in a position of power ever bothered to mention this to us did they? One must understand the UCC to understand how and why so many have gotten away with so much: And now they are upping the ante, to take it all.'


This explains why every courtroom and every government building has flags hanging that really are not American flags even though they appear to be. Each of them has gold/yellow fringe around them. They give us smoke and mirrors that mask what they created, which allows them to continue to say 'we have a constitution and a democracy.' Of course America was created to be a constitutional republic, not a democracy. There is a huge difference between a democracy and a constitutional republic. The rights of the few and the many, can only be protected under a Republic, while under a democracy, the majority rules-absolutely.


There are however a few places that are still holding out against the one-world-order and the New Barbarians. Among these are Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan, parts of Pakistan, possibly Iran and certainly Greece.


"Socialist leader George Papandreou called for early elections, saying the conservative government could no longer defend the public from rioters.


The government has a single-seat majority in the 300-member Parliament and opposition parties blame hands-off policing for encouraging the worst rioting the country has seen in decades.


'The government cannot handle this crisis and has lost the trust of the Greek people,' Papandreou said. 'The best thing it can do is resign and let the people find a solution ... we will protect the public.'" (3)


If America is to survive then we must stop this wholesale giveaway of everything that was once part of this society. The relationship between profits and earnings must be freed from the stranglehold that management has created in order to siphon off all the profits and wreck the companies they work for. In addition, the idea that government can function in any capacity as a major stakeholder in any form of private enterprise beggars the imagination far beyond any real possibility for saving anything; except the criminals and their enterprises that created this "crisis" in the first place. The 'economy' must be based on a bottom-up profit motive, based on the real wages of those that create the wealth for those at the top - and not upon the insanity that it is now! People must come first, and the corporations must be controlled at every level by the public!


There is no longer anything like responsibility anywhere in government or the private sector to anything except what can continue to be stolen, either by flawed and fraudulent bailouts, or through the strong-arm tactics that are currently acting "under- cover of law" and that are neither legal nor functional. Obama in this venue is neither a savior, nor a friend to the people that supposedly 'elected' him-he is just the instrument of the new global-government engine designed to finish the job and to close down this nation, once and for all! Americans need to watch what happens in Greece and follow their example, if there is to be an America to fight over in the future.


In the meanwhile, here is some of what's happened here already.


"With the focus on privatization, public-private partnerships, (dismantling local control); anyone with any common sense about them can see that; incrementally the power of the people is being given over to corporate control through various venues. Once upon a time we were subjects, then citizens, and now consumers. Everything is for sale. TV 'programming' is set up to entice "consumers" through the 3000 daily ads to buy, buy, buy! Utilities-waste- nursing homes, and even the people's water (once in local control) is open to the highest bidder or those with the most influence. In "public private partnerships or privatization" (despite the lofty high pitch sales rhetoric) means only one thing, a plundering of the people's money. Profits take precedence over any and all health or environmental concerns. It's pigs at the trough time, locally- state wise and nationally. This is not just happening in one or two isolated places but across the nation. Because we are narrowly focused (many times only one newspaper) parochially; we have little to no idea of the larger picture and what is being set in place.


As I read of various happenings across the nation; I am struck with the usage of terms and language being introduced into the public arena; with no explanation as to their meaning (if any). I asked a state politician a few years back what this terminology we're hearing lately of, "regional or regionalization" meant? He brushed the whole thing aside as inconsequential and told me that is was of no importance. Obviously, for me, that was an unsatisfactory answer. Most especially, since on the local level, I could see that it meant a great deal. It appeared to me, that ever so insidiously, local control was gradually being usurped by "regional" control of unelected officials. Consultants (strangers) were replacing local people in places of city government (at lucrative salaries). The sense of community (calling city hall etc.) was being replaced by various business entities, having little to no attachment to the heartbeat of the people. How could they, being strangers, with no sense of native pride or concern? Words like "regional, stake holder, empowerment zones, enterprise committees, visioning councils, smart growth, sustainable development etc;" had replaced understandable language! I didn't imagine that the usage of these terms across the nation (if you look) meant "nothing"." (4)


It's 'Closing Time' America, because unless you begin to do more than just watch, this place won't even be a footnote to the ruin that is planned for these people and this place that once held so much promise for everyone.


kirwanstudios@sbcglobal.net



A search warrant under FISA prior to 9/11
As you can see from the article cited below, Holder did not have that evidence. He was not the only person responsible for "not allowing" the laptop contents search. Seems there was a problem with intelligence sharing between the US and France. His decision was also defended by the FBI director. Unless being able to predict the future is a qualification for the AG, it seems that you could find a better reason to be losing sleep.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/05/08/60II/main508362.shtml

Prior military wife myself - know how it works -
x
Perhaps you would prefer the "original" I got prior to my editing.....

The Little Red Hen called all of her Democrat neighbors together and said, 'If we plant this wheat, we shall have bread to eat. Who will help me plant it?'



'Not I,' said the cow.



'Not I,' said the duck.



'Not I,' said the pig.



'Not I,' said the goose.



 



 



 



'Then I will do it by myself,' said the little red hen, and so she did. The wheat grew very tall and ripened into golden grain.



 



 



 



'Who will help me reap my wheat?' asked the little red hen.



 



 



 



'Not I,' said the duck..



'Out of my classification,' said the pig.



'I'd lose my seniority,' said the cow.



'I'd lose my unemployment compensation,' said the goose.



 



 



 



'Then I will do it by myself,' said the little red hen, and so she did.



 



 



 



At last it came time to bake the bread.



'Who will help me bake the bread?' asked the little red hen.



 



 



 



'That would be overtime for me,' said the cow.



 



 



 



'I'd lose my welfare benefits,' said the duck.



 



 



 



'I'm a dropout and never learned how,' said the pig.



 



 



 



'If I'm to be the only helper, that's discrimination,' said the goose.



 



 



 



'Then I will do it by myself,' said the little red hen.



 



 



 



She baked five loaves and held them up for all of her neighbors to see. They wanted some and, in fact, demanded a share. But the little red hen said, 'No, I shall eat all five loaves.'



 



 



 



'Excess profits!' cried the cow. (Nancy Pelosi)



 



 



 



'Capitalist leech!' screamed the duck. (Barbara Boxer)



 



 



 



'I demand equal rights!' yelled the goose. (Jesse Jackson)



 



 



 



The pig just grunted in disdain. (Ted Kennedy)



 



 



 



And they all painted 'Unfair!' picket signs and marched around and around the little red hen, shouting obscenities.



 



 



 



Then the farmer (Obama) came. He said to the little red hen, 'You must not be so greedy.'



 



 



 



'But I earned the bread,' said the little red hen.



'Exactly,' said Barack the farmer. 'That is what makes our free enterprise system so wonderful. Anyone in the barnyard can earn as much as he wants. But under our modern government regulations, the productive workers must divide the fruits of their labor with those who are lazy and idle.'



 



 



 



And they all lived happily ever after, including the little red hen, who smiled and clucked, 'I am grateful, for now I truly understand.'



 



 



 



But her neighbors became quite disappointed in her. She never again baked bread because she joined the 'party' and got her bread free. And all the Democrats smiled. 'Fairness' had been established.



 



 



 



Individual initiative had died, but nobody noticed; perhaps no one cared...so long as there was free bread that 'the rich' were paying for.



 



 



 



EPILOGUE



 



 



 



Bill Clinton is getting $12 million for his memoirs.



 



 



 



Hillary got $8 million for hers.



 



 



 



That's $20 million for the memories from two people, who for eight years, repeatedly testified, under oath, that they couldn't remember anything.



 



 



 



IS THIS A GREAT BARNYARD OR WHAT?


Judging by some of the prior town meetings

1.  Gimme a house.


2.  Make my boss pay me more (than I'm worth).


3.  Gimme.


4.  Gimme.


5.  Fix everything for me.


This is more the behavior of subjects toward a monarch than citizens toward a president.  Thanks, think I'll just stay home and improve my own life. 


 


In a prior post I made the following offer:

 


.....no amount of money would induce me to volunteer to be tortured (you know, beaten cut, burned - severe pain or harm).  But cut me a check (certified only, please) with a number followed by a whole lot of zeros and I would be waterboarded (strictly in the interest of science).  Our special forces are trained to withstand this and other 'harsh' interrigation techniques......  It's scary and unpleasant but way different from having your fingernails pulled out or a field generator and alligator clips used.


I had in mind more like $500,000, but yeah, for enough money I would certainly consider that an offer I couldn't refuse. 


 


The prior poster was explaining the church ministries
those ministries were consistent with Obama's life experiences, his political career and his current campaign platform. Voters like a consistent candidate with a consistent message, a concept that seems to elude many McCain supporters and certainly goes right over the heads of his campaign managers.

The previous poster was implying that perhaps members of the congregation, both past and present, find value and purpose in those ministries and often choose to participate in the church ministries that service their immediate communities and benefit those who are in the most need wherein, according to Matthew's gospel, the Spirit of Jesus dwells. Some of us really like that about Obama and find it admirable that he embodies this decidedly Christian principle and understands that that we all will be judged by the measure of how we treat the least among us.

My best guess is that the previous poster does not necessarily believe that Christian evangelical pastors of any and all colors are exactly void of fanaticism, bigotry and hatred. Rev Wright certainly may have appeal to some members of that congregation whose core beliefs he reflects, just as John Hagee has a certain appeal to some of his congregation. Having said that, there is still no direct evidence that Hagee reflects McCain's core beliefs any more than there is evidence that Wright reflects Obama's...except in the minds of those who are in charge of the hate patrol.
compared to the prior president anyone is a great orator

Listening to one of his speeches is a breath of fresh air compared to listening to Bush.....I'm betting O will make less speaking mistakes in his entire presidency than Bush made in any one given month during his.


Comparing the two presidents

is a little like comparing a bass (Bush) to a great white shark (Iranian president). 


 


Presidents do not yield

to political blackmail -- Obama did the right thing.  He believes his time is better spent letting the entire bleppin' congress work the on the issue and then vote when they come up with a plan.  McCain is just making another grandstand attempt that has fallen embarrassingly flat.


 


I was not talking about 16 other presidents...... sm
I am talking about Obama.

I thought the general consensus of this board, or at least the Obama supporters here, was that we were to not look at history but rather to the future. (At least that is what I was told when I posted that those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat their mistakes.)

You really should have watched the "YouTube bites." It was Obama himself saying that he did not believe a person that is unqualified for a job should apply for it and that was his reasoning for saying that he did not see himself running for a national office in 2008. Since you didn't watch the video, I believe you are unqualified to comment on it.
They do that with ALL presidents. Usually, initially
nm
Oh, so you don't care if this has been done before with other presidents, . . . sm
but you do care if it has not been done before.  Why?  Either way, the naysayers will have something to whine about.  The only reason there is such a big deal being made is because there has not been a president in recent history that has had been under so much scrutiny in his first 100 days.  Even if he were to solve world peace, find a cure for cancer AND turn water into wine, they would still complain and find fault. 
So have all the other Christian presidents, nm
x
Not all presidents do have a gathering
Just because they served the Kool-Aid in the Bush white house for the last 8 years, doesn't mean that's what is supposed to happen. Obama signed a national proclamation honoring the day, which is what many presidents have done since Truman created it 50 some years ago. Not everyone needs to drape themselves in their religion to honor it.
All presidents have done things....(sm)

in secret.  It's never caused such a problem before.  I'm not trying to slam Bush, but look at all the stuff we're finding out about his administration (i.e. torture memos, etc).  And to top that off, Bush was the one who initially stopped access to the guest list to the WH.  When Bush did it the news covered it, but there wasn't a wide spread panic about it....so what's the big deal about Obama doing it? 


I'm not saying that I agree with blocking the lists, because I don't, but the point is that both Bush and Obama have done it, so why the panic about just one of them?  My guess is that right wing media is pushing the issue and using it as a talking point; basically making the media being the ones who are instilling fear, not Obama.


Maybe it's time to dump the presidents and
X
16 presidents with less experience than Obama...
http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Info/experience.html
1. Abraham Lincoln,
2. FDR
3. Theodore Roosevelt
4. Woodrow Wilson
5. John Adams
6. Grover Cleveland
7. Ronald Reagan
8. Howard Taft
9. Bill Clinton
10. George Bush
11. Chester A. Arthur
12. Herbert Hoover
13. Jimmy Carter
14. Benjamin Harrison
15. Ulysses S. Grant
16. William Harrison

BTW, I do not make such important decisions as selecting a president based on YouTube sound bytes, so no, I did not bother with the video. My vote is between me and my candidate, based on exactly the things I listed in the previous post, which I stand by 100%.

Hogwash. See 16 presidents post above.
x
Haven't all the other Christian presidents? nm
x
No you were not - it's obvious you were talking about the presidents
because you said so in your message! Sheesh - this is about as good as David Letterman saying he was talking about the "other" Palin girl.
Democratic presidents 'suck' in the eyes
of Reps, and Republican presidents 'suck' in the eyes of Dems.....and round and round it goes...
There were assassination attempts on WHITE Presidents. Did the assassinators
think they might not really be white? or that they were too young to run a country?
much ado about nothing...reporter posed question as, "had he spoken to any *living* presidents?..
i agree the reporter's question was absolutely LAME..."has he spoken to any LIVING past presidents?" um...as opposed to talking to dead ones? I thought his response was quick-witted considering the idiocy of the question--at least he didn't put the reporter on the spot and embarrass her...instead he made his first gaffe as POTUSE and already apologized. let's hope the reporters ask SMARTER questions at the next conference.
I love democrats! I love most of the past democratic presidents (sm)
I would love for there to be a good democrat I could vote for. I want good leadership and I want change. But I truly believe to purposely ignore a symbol speaks volumes. He is not just asking the symbol to wait, he is ignoring it on purpose. Avoiding it on purpose. Why do you think that is? There is a reason. Can you not see it?
I think BB has a point here in that the main point on the board is political discussion, and let'
face it, there is SO MUCH going on right now, changes, problems, disasters, and so much debate on what should/could be done, but so many tims the political discussion disintegrates in a finger-pointing, name-calling exercise, spouting religion all over the place. Yeah, our spiritual beliefs are dearly held and we would all strive to be the best we can be, and do whatever we can whatever the ideology is, but sometimes I wonder, since we have a board EXPRESSLY for Faith isuues, where relgious debates/discussions/forums, etc are welcome, why does THIS board have to be turned into RELIGION BOARD PART II, especially if one ideology wants to dominate or ridicule/condemn those who come on here for lively inteligent discussion, debate of issues in Congress and in our lives, and just want their beliefs held separately? CNN is not EWTN or any other Christian network, and there are constant informative, bright, lively, balanced discussions from all over the political spectrum on the credentialed news stations, as well as C-Span, but they are not constantly hiding behind a cross, rosary, bible, star of David, or whatever....can we not strive to do the same and put religious debate on the Faith board?? Just a thought to ponder, MHO, it might work beter, who knows?
is the the starting point or the end point for the middle class?
x
I answered your post point-by-point and
all you can come up with is a lame tit-for-tat? Can you provide some sort of substantive response that would argue against the point I am trying to make here? Of course not.

Please show me what part of my post reflects bigotry or ignorance? I have made a few statements based on my own life experience, rather than the hook-line-and-sinker method of forming my world view. Then the impotence of your suicide bomber reference was buried under concrete evidence of informed, researched and factual data that would suggest an oppressed, occupied, half-starved population does not have the upper hand when it comes to defending themselves against Israel's US-bankrolled arsenal of pain, misery, death and destruction. They are just a tad out-gunned, wouldn't you say?
I answered your post point-by-point and
all you can come up with is a lame tit-for-tat? Can you provide some sort of substantive response that would argue against the point I am trying to make here? Of course not.

Please show me what part of my post reflects bigotry or ignorance? I have made a few statements based on my own life experience, rather than the hook-line-and-sinker method of forming a world view. Then the impotence of your suicide bomber reference was buried under concrete evidence of informed, researched and factual data that would suggest an oppressed, occupied, half-starved population does not exactly have the upper hand when it comes to defending themselves against Israel's US-bankrolled arsenal of pain, misery, death and destruction they employ in order to "secure" themselves.

The Palestinians are just a tad out-gunned, wouldn't you say? This might just account for the lop-sided fatalities/injuries ratios between the Israelis and the Palestinians. In closing, it is worth noting that even with the advantage of all those terrorist toys and tools our tax dollars have bestowed upon them, security and peace of mind just seem to be further and further beyond their reach. Wonder why that is?
If your point is that it was 7 years ago, that's not much of a point is it? sm
Not long ago at all in the scope of things. The point is that the same thing could and probably would happen here. 9-11 happened 7 years ago too....I guess that couldn't happen again, huh?
I get your point, but my main point is -
why should the government be allowed to tell people what they can and can't eat? Everyone says the government is too involved in our business anyway, so if they should stay out of one part of our lives, they should stay out of all parts of our lives!
and your point is??

Your point is??  Bush is the one who waged this immoral illegal wrong war, not all the democrats you have posted quotes on.  It is BUSH, the chimp boy, who waged the war and used every kind of excuse possible, flip flopping back and forth over the reasons.  Now that we know there are no WMD and we have gotten Saddam, what is the excuse for being there and not setting a time plan to leave??  Of course the reason has always been the murderous foreign policy of the US, to have its bloody hands in every country it possibly can.  They are just salivating in DC over the fact that we will have control over the Middle East and OIL.  Bush and his group are war criminals, just as bad as Saddam.


the point is
If these brave soldiers did not have to go to Vietnam, a useless, wrong war (it has been PROVEN, DEBATED AND PROVEN AGAIN AND AGAIN, EVEN BY THOSE WHO WERE IN THE MILITARY), their physical and emotional illnesses never would have happened..and there would have been no people turning against them.  There were thousands upon thousands of protestors telling Nixon, bring our boys home and a few turning against the soldiers.  The war is what scarred and has continued to torture these soldiers..the wrong war of that day just like the wrong war of now, Iraq..And where is the VA to help those of Vietnam?  Bush continues to cut the budget for the VA, even though we will have thousands once again home from a useless, immoral, illegal war..I read an article the other day how the soldiers coming home are divorcing quite a bit..another thing these soldiers have to deal with..physical ailments, mental ailments, not adjusting to society, divorce..these were happy job holding family people before Bush got his blood hands on them.  Thanks Bush.
You see, that's my whole point...
...the truth of this quote is why it's important.  You can't ignore the inherent truth in an observation simply because you don't like the bearer of that message.  I believe that if one truly examined history and discarded labels such as socialist, liberal, yes, even conservative (these labels change with time and are not static philosophies) I believe history would show that the the last part of this quote is right on about what it takes to be successful in uniting a country/party against a supposed "foe."  Some have said hatred is the biggest uniter of a people that there is. 
The point.

 While there were quite a few issues in this article that were noteworthy, to me at least, the main point was that the Bush/war supporters are going to have a chance to participate in the war that they love. Since we broke Iraq we have to fix it and we can't afford to and the military can't do it so, in its infinite wisdom, the administration has come up with a "Peace Corps" type scenario where professionals of all vein VOLUNTEER to go to Iraq and work, for free. This is just too good. How many of those on the conservative board do you think will volunteer to go, or their husbands, sons, relatives? And like he said, if you voted for Bush put your money where your magnet is, smack dab in the middle of the Sunni triangle.


We have and have had for a long time alternatives energy resources. You can destroy the Gulf of Mexico, Alaska and wherever else you want but in a few years we will be right back here. The oil supply is finite. Get used to it. Time to switch gears and explore the alternatives. But again, I can't wait to see who signs up for volunteer duty...next stop is Vietnam (Oh, I mean Iran, no I mean Iraq...).


Well, to each his own, which is exactly my point.
I can not discount your points here without discounting mine. I can't explain why people sign up, but my guess would be that some need money, jobs and opportunities and are praying if they do go to Iraq they will make it back in one piece. There are obviously a lot of people who believe in the cause of this war, I'm just not one. And like I say, some have fallen hook-line-and-sinker into the justification for this war, or believe it is important to free the Iraqis and somehow this is going to protect America.

I say again, to each his own. May God be with them all!
That is not the point! sm
The point is, expect the unexpected.  Don't get all hyper about guns.  I should never have mentioned that here, I am sure.  I was making a point where has, yet again, been twisted!   Good grief!
There is no point to THAT. SM
Everyone knows that paper is and always has been anti-Bush.  I'm sorry, but you guys won't take stuff from NewsMax and FrontPageMag, which are both WAY WAY BIGGER than this little rag. Don't expect me to take this seriously. 
It's my point.nm
x
And your point is
  It's all Bush's fault, by the way.  It's the evil Republican's fault, but especially Bush.  It's ALL his fault.   It's America's fault, too!  IMPEACH AMERICA.  You are my hero.
But, at what point...
do you just toss your arms up in the air and give up on teaching people how to use birth control.  It's not rocket science.  How many decades of teaching do we need?  I think we already have a cornucopia of information available everywhere on how to use birth control.  It's not like it's a taboo subject.  I have to think that the computer saavy youth of today, who can jump through hoops on the internet, if interested, could find out with the click of a button just exactly how to use any given birth control.  We can fund education to the hilt, but stupid careless people will always be stupid careless people.  It's sad.
You got a point there...nm

I know all I need to. I see no point in this.
.
But the point is, we believe what we believe.
In this instance, you feel the war is morally illegal and I don't. 
Yes....that was my point.

I think what you said is exactly the point.
With everything going on, and it keeps getting worse and worse, the leader of the free world shows himself to be crude, have no table manners ... the forever frat boy. In itself giving an uninvited neck rub and talking with one's mouth full are certainly not newsworthy but in the context of  where he was, what he was participating in ( participation questionable) what is happening to our world, our leader, without his spinners and handlers and speech writers was exposed as the uninformed, disinterested, unegaged person that he is and always has been.  He was obviously bored throughout the entire conference, displayed his ignorance of geography (again), displayed his total lack of understanding of the Middle East, a process that has been evolving for 100s of years, way before Israel appeared on the scene. The history of the Middle East appears to bore him. Actually, everything but clearing brush at the ranch seems to bore him. And this guy wants free reign to do anything he likes, no checks, no balances, no congressional approval; its like he thinks this is the old board game War, or little green soldiers he can play with. He is such an embarassment.