What the Indonesian govt requires for adoption, citizenship, religious affiliation
Posted By: The one she inflicted on herself...sm on 2008-10-24
In Reply to:
anything else is of NO CONCERN to the US govt when it comes to recognizing or preserving citizenship status of a natural born US citizen. Check the constitution. Check the State Department website. Check the immigration law statutes and stop making a complete idjit of yourself. You have been hanging in the fringe chat rooms too long. His citizenship was not renounced. I am sure his parents jumped through whatever hoops they needed to in order to live in the country and enroll their child in school, much the same way my own daughter is doing with her child while living in a Moslem country in the Middle East. They hold passports from there AND American passports and do not have to immigrate back to the country of their origin. The US govt turns a blind eye to this and preserves the integrity of its natural born folks. My God, you are a dense one, aren't you?
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He lost his citizenship upon adoption by his
nm
And govt shouldn't fund religious programs....
schools, facilities, etc.
why would he have to apply for citizenship? He never denounced his citizenship...
x
No one requires unquestioning obedience
I have questioned my pastor many many times.
Yes, there are different versions of the bible. There is the King James Version, the New International Version (same as KJV without all the thous and shalts for easier reading) but they all say the same thing. It is just taking it out of the Old English context and putting it in a way that is easier to understand. Just like translating a movie into a different language.
Black churches have just as much right to be angry as white churches. If you are referring to Wright's GD America statement, he could have been polka dotted and that would still be wrong.
Shout out of the "next" antichrist? I don't get what you are saying there.
The main purpose of church is supposed to be for Christians to come together and learn and grow. It is supposed to be a place to find comfort among others and to recharge after being in a world that does not love Christ all week. It is not a requirement at all. But there really is no such thing as the "lone Christian". It is too tough in this world to not have the support of others.
In my opinion the best way to judge a church is by what they preach. If it comes out of the Holy Bible, then it is good. If they add to (or take away) from the Bible, I would question. If they don't allow questions, I would leave. We are encouraged to question anything that we don't understand or don't agree with. Our pastor also voluntarily has the church take an anonymous vote once a year as to whether they would have him stay or go. There is nothing in the Southern Baptist Convention or even in the Bible that requires him to do this, but he wants the congregation to have that choice. So far it has been an unanimous decision to keep him every year for the past five years since he started there.
If you are seriously curious about this, I would suggest you do some more digging. You sound like you have a lot of biased feelings towards the church, and maybe you've been treated wrong by one before. I know when I was 16 I left the Presbyterian church because of the way people acted there and because the pastor had said my stepbrother was condemned to he.ll when he died because he had been under the influence when he was in the car accident that killed him. I for one do not believe that anyone can condemn someone to he.ll except God, and while we may have a good idea of whether or not someone is saved, the only one who knows for sure is Christ. I am now part of a church that has maybe 50 or so people and they are the most kind and loving folks I have ever met. They would literally give you the shirt off their back.
I honestly believe small churches are the best. When a church gets to big, that's when evil has a chance to creep in and start to destroy it, even if the original intention was good.
If you are concerned about your sister, why not maybe check out a few other small churches and find one you are comfortable with? Then you can invite her and maybe she will see the difference. No one should be forced into unquestioning obedience.
Good luck, I'll be praying for you!
I saw no mention of party affiliation....
but then again, the news just posted sound bytes and not the entire meeting. So that woman was the only one who got to speak? I doubt it. And good for that family to help that woman out with their extra vacant house!
I guess it depends on what affiliation you have.
It seems to me that there is just as much, if not more, bashing by Republicans/conservatives as I see directed towards them. In actuality it is probably fairly evenly split.
The govt isn't taking over the car companies. Govt
has to be involved in getting our cars to run efficiently using little or no gasoline. Get it! Oil companies are not going to give up their golden egg, and we CANNOT be dependent on foreign oil, keep giving OPEC 700B a year, that simple! Give them a chance to get booted up and running to get energy-efficient autos. It's not going to happen overnight. We have wasted 30 long years since the last energy crisis in which Carter tried to get off oil, but oil companies put the kibosh on it, after all, oil runs this country.
Correction, that should be Indonesian man by
Lolo Soetoro, M.A., an Indonesian citizen.
He was adopted by his Indonesian stepfather
therefore he is a citizen of Indonesia. Once he was adopted into another country, he cannot claim US citizenship even if he was born here. He would then have to go through immigration process to apply for US citizenship, which he has not done.
His mother remarried an Indonesian man
nm
His Indonesian father adopted him who lived ONLY
nm
His father was a Kenyan. His mother married an Indonesian man who adopted him. However, no one...s
no matter who adopts you, gives up their US citizenship. Only that person at age 21 can do that. Obama had the choice at 21 to adopt Indonesion or Kenyan citizenship, but he chose to remain an American citizen.
Abortion : adoption....s/m
What reasoning is it that the GOVERNMENT or CHURCH has the right to decide what happens to M Y embryo????
Up to the 5th month, later it is a crime.
I am absolutely AGAINST partial birth abortion, only if the life of the mother is in danger.
What's wrong with adoption? sm
It would end the need for contact between the mother and father. You are making it sound like we are saying any woman who is raped MUST raise the child, and that is simply not true.
Checking adoption records
I agree. I think the media is way out of line with that. Judge Roberts and his wife should be commended and respected for having the love and compassion in their hearts to adopt these children.
The more I see of him, the more respect I have for him and the more I like him.
abortion:adoption....for 99.6 percentile...sm
I would very much appreciate if you could give your opinion to this matter...
Thanks!
If you know who the father is - you need his permission for adoption also -
I don't think I would want to go to the man who raped me and say I want to give our child up, is that okay with you? I don't think when he says no, I will raise this child that I would want to turn over a child to that man to raise... and that is what would happen!
Would you want to take a child to prison to see his "daddy" for visitation because the court ordered it? Would you want to have to deal with him about child support?
I don't think so...
and just because the child was conceived in rape, believe me, as messed up as our court systems are, they would give that man visitation and the poor woman he had victimized would be victimized again and again and again!
Judge overturns Florida ban on adoption by gays
(CNN) -- A Florida circuit judge Tuesday struck down a 31-year-old state law that prevents gays and lesbians from adopting children, allowing a North Miami man to adopt two half-brothers he and his partner have raised as foster children since 2004.
"There is no question, the blanket exclusion of gay applicants defeats Florida's goal of providing dependent children a permanent family through adoption," Judge Cindy S. Lederman wrote in her 53-page ruling.
"The best interests of children are not preserved by prohibiting homosexual adoption."
The state attorney general's office has appealed the decision.
Lederman said there is no moral or scientific reason for banning gays and lesbians from adopting, despite the state's arguments otherwise. The state argued that gays and lesbians have higher odds of suffering from depression, affective and anxiety disorders and substance abuse, and that their households are more unstable.
Lederman said the ban violated children's right to permanency provided under the Florida statute and under the federal Adoption and Safe Families Act of 1997. Whether the ban violated the state's equal protection clause by singling out gays and lesbians should be considered, she said.
Lederman's ruling paves the way for Martin Gill to legally adopt the two half-brothers, ages 4 and 8, whom he has cared for since December 2004, the American Civil Liberties Union said.
The two boys, who are referred to as John and James Doe in court documents, were removed from their homes on allegations of abandonment and neglect.
On that December evening, John and James left a world of chronic neglect, emotional impoverishment and deprivation to enter a new world, foreign to them, that was nurturing, safe, structured and stimulating," Lederman wrote.
In 2006, the children's respective fathers' rights were terminated, court documents said, and they remained in the care of Gill and his partner.
"Our family just got a lot more to be thankful for this Thanksgiving," Gill said Tuesday, according to the ACLU, which represented him.
Florida is the only state that specifically bans all "homosexual" people from adopting children, although it does allow them to be foster parents.
This month, Arkansas voters approved a ballot measure to prohibit unmarried partners -- same-sex or opposite-sex couples -- from adopting children or from serving as foster parents. The measure is similar to one in Utah, which excludes same-sex couples indirectly through a statute barring all unmarried couples from adopting or taking in foster children.
Mississippi allows single gays and lesbians to adopt, but prohibits same-sex couples from adopting.
Neal Skene, spokesman for the Florida Department of Children and Families, said the appeal was filed so a statewide resolution on the law could be determined by an appellate court. He noted that another Florida circuit judge declared the law unconstitutional this year but that ruling had not been appealed.
"We need a statewide determination by the appellate courts," he said.
Gill's adoption petition cannot be approved until the appeal process is finished, Skene said, but the children will remain in Gill's home.
"These are wonderful foster parents," Skene said. "It's just that we have a statute, [and] the statute is very clear on the issue of adoption."
Several organizations -- including the National Adoption Center, the American Medical Association, the American Psychological Association and the American Academy of Pediatrics -- have said that having gay and lesbian parents does not negatively affect children.
The Evan B. Donaldson Adoption Institute, a nonprofit organization that studies adoption and foster care, hailed the decision.
"This ban, which was the only one of its kind in the country, has done nothing but undermine the prospects of boys and girls in the foster care system to get permanent, loving homes," said Adam Pertman, the Adoption Institute's executive director, in a written statement.
"So this decision by Judge Lederman is a very important, hopeful ruling for children who need families."
If checking the adoption records is part of the normal background check, then the only reason this i
x
Even if he could prove citizenship, which he
a citizen once he was adopted by the Indonesian stepfather. Once a child is adopted by someone from another country, they cannot claim citizenship to that country any longer, even if they were born there.
He has yet to produce immigration papers which show he applied for citizenship to this country, just like any "illegal" would have to do.
NOT TRUE. No one can take your US citizenship from you
.
Dual (or not) citizenship
I have a cousin who was born in England at a US military base hospital and she is indeed a US Citizen with no dual citizenship
Citizenship argument...another red herring on
Get over yourself.
Obama has never denounced his citizenship
as it relates to his citizenship to the country of Indonesia or denounced his citizenship as it relates to the country of Kenya.
He cannot produce a “vault” (original) long version of a birth certificate showing his birth in Hawaii but he does have a "vault" (original) long version of a birth certificate in Kenya.
Interesting as to what he does have and what he can't produce.
He had the right to accept his Kenyan citizenship... sm
at age 21 and since he didn't, it expired. Hence his only citizenship is his American citizenship.
Because he had no citizenship to denounce in the first place. sm
Go back and read the post. Indonesia, at the time that Obama lived there, did not recognize dual citizenship, therefore nullifying his supposed US citizenship. In order to attend school in Indonesia, he had to be a citizen of the country and he was made a citizen of that country by the adoption of his stepfather. His school card in the link below lists him as an Indonesian citizen and his religion as Muslim.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=72656
I am no expert but....it has something to do with "dual citizenship." sm
My best friend's husband was a Dutch citizen. (He has since been naturalized). They have 3 children. The kids could claim both Dutch and American citizenship up until the age of 18. Then they had to make a choice of which citizenship to renounce. Now that was back in the 80's so things may have changed since then. Not sure if this explains it or not.
Dual citizenship is not a crime. It's a privilege.
Repeat one GOOD reason?
Bottom line, no one can renounce the citizenship...sm
of an American citizen, period, whether they are adopted by a noncitizen or not. Obama had the right to claim Nigerian citizenship at age 21 but did not.
Interesting post regarding US Citizenship on another board...
Not true at all, even if your parent is a us citizen, if you are born in another country, you are a us citizen, but you are forever disqualified from running for president. This does not apply to military bases and diplomats. That is the law. My boss happens to have been born in canada to us citizens working there at the time. Took him 3 years to be able to get a passport to leave the us on vacation and yes they notified him he could never run for president. That is the difference between being a us citizen and a naturalized us citizen.
I believe it is also the same for anyone whom has ever claimed citizenship outside of the us, once you claim citizenship anywhere else, you are disqualified from running for president.
I don't tihnk a BC proof of citizenship is stupid.
Let the "stupid crap" go on until it is cleared up. I'm sick of hearing it, too, but I'll be dang if I want someone who is not a citizen to run our country. I want to know the truth and, so far, that truth isn't there. Too much secrecy (sp?) to warm my toes. It opens a whole 'nother can of worms if he is not a citizen, yet becomes president anyway.
It would mean a constitutional rule struck down and, (I shudder to think of this) even terrorists could run our country if they so desire and could pay off people who's vote count. Gee, do you want Chevez or Putnin to run our country? How about Ayers or Wright?
I'm just pointing out a few things here. There's too many question as why this was not resolved and why, all of a sudden, his records in Hawaii were sealed or whatever, after he went to "visit his sick grandmother."
Truth is all I want and I don't have it yet. But I will let the SC decide (if they weren't bribed) and then, I will embrace the O as a president until he screws up which, eventually, he will. He's coming off as "too perfect". There is no one "perfect" in my eyes.
I don't think dual citizenship applies to your kids -
Not being ugly, my daughter was born in Germany too, but I never heard that she had dual citizenship. She was born on a military base and that made her an American.
REAL Americans don't recognize dual citizenship.
nm
It does not matter if he has quadruple citizenship was born on Pluto,
any other fool notion you can come up with. Obama is a citizen of the United States and no number of lawsuits, appeals, attorneys or McC camp supporters is going to change that. These ridiculous distractions have rendered the rest of this campaign down to the level of a technical moot point. When you are in a hole (as the wise SP has pointed out), the first thing you do is to stop digging. However, you guys have managed to run the clock so far down, that there is really no way out by this time. Congratulations on your failed campaign. Cut your losses, go back to the drawing board, decide what you need to be doing for your fractured party and try to figure out what you will be doing in 2012 about your leadership vacuum. The citizenship issue is a dead end. Believe it or not. Nobody cares because it poses no threat whatsoever to Obama if you continue to rale about this until h@ll freezes over.
Not true, No one can give up the citizenship of a child who is a US citizen. nm
.
Immigration attys probable grasp basic citizenship concepts.
rasberries
Oh, God! Well, the govt is actually us,
nm
Please tell me exactly how the govt
packaged derivatives down the throats of the lenders. I am extraordinarily curious.
What next....you want govt to tell you how much sun
nm
Right. and MORE govt involvement is just asking for
nm
Yep, we will soon be prisoners of our own govt.
nm
If the govt. is going to let my job go to India, they can
"I'll take that in $20's, please."
LOL. SHE will spend too much in govt?
nm
According to Obama. He wants to Govt to run
nm
Look what the Govt did to Soc. Security.
nm
Okay, so the last thing we need is a Govt
nm
Why should the govt be able to tell people what to eat?
Ya'll are always saying less government, then why should they be able to monitor what people eat? You think just because you are on welfare then you should be required to be a healthy eater? That is ridiculous!
Why should the govt be able to control part of your life and not all of your life?
Because the govt now owns 80% of AIG
So what are you saying? That it is fair for them to admit incompetence, whine for help and take the people's money, but its nobody's business what they spend it on? Corporate welfare has got to stop!
This is no different than if a relative came begging for help making their house payment, you gave it to them, then instead they blew it on caviar and a cruise - and expected/demanded more money from you in the future. Would you feel you had the right then to tell them what to do with it? Or would you refuse to give them another cent and let them crash and burn?
In this society, when an individual admits their incompetence and declares (or has concerned others prove) they are unable to handle their affairs, they are made a ward of the court with a guardian or a committee of guardians to tell them what to do with their money and their lives. This is not a temporary situation (such as individual welfare is supposed to be), the government has more huge payments to AIG scheduled.  Yes, there should be strings attached to the money - BIG ones.
Yet Another Govt Assessment
High confidence: Military experience is found throughout the white supremacist extremist movement as the result of recruitment campaigns by extremist groups and self-recruitment by veterans sympathetic to white supremacist causes. Extremist leaders seek to recruit members with military experience in order to exploit their discipline, knowledge of firearms, explosives, and tactical skills and access to weapons and intelligence.
Although individuals with military backgrounds constitute a small percentage of white supremacist extremists, they frequently occupy leadership roles within extremist groups and their involvement has the potential to reinvigorate an
extremist movement suffering from loss of leadership and in-fighting during the post-9/11 period.
http://file.sunshinepress.org:54445/fbi-military-nazis-2008.pdf
Of course dear! Don't ya know govt ALWAYS knows what's
nm
If you want to just hand your paycheck to the govt.
Then by all means...support government funded healthcare! Nothing is free, and personally I would like the discretion on when and where to by my health ins. This country...or should I say it's people cannot afford healthcare for everyone. Look at Canada and look at the U.K. Their socialized healthcare stinks. People are dying waiting to get treatment. Besides, if we go to socialized healthcare then where are the Canadians and British going to come for quality health care like they are doing now? Do you know that if you have advanced stages of any diseases in these countries that the governments are starting to deny care to them? You don't get a choice. The government decides that you die! Pretty sad if you ask me.
"What's good enough for congress is good enough for me?"
Hardly....
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