Dual citizenship is not a crime. It's a privilege.
Posted By: One good reason he should renounce? on 2008-08-26
In Reply to: The lawsuit I am talking about was just filed this week...by some Democrat attorney... - sam
Repeat one GOOD reason?
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Dual (or not) citizenship
I have a cousin who was born in England at a US military base hospital and she is indeed a US Citizen with no dual citizenship
I don't think dual citizenship applies to your kids -
Not being ugly, my daughter was born in Germany too, but I never heard that she had dual citizenship. She was born on a military base and that made her an American.
REAL Americans don't recognize dual citizenship.
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why would he have to apply for citizenship? He never denounced his citizenship...
x
is it a right, privilege, or responsibility
Just curious - this question was raised at the 2nd debate. Is health care a right, privilege or a responsibility? How do you all feel about it? I feel it is a right but one that comes with a price, that one does not deserve health care simply because one is alive but that one deserves health care and must be willing to take responsibility for expenses (not all, obviously, because no one could afford that) but premiums, etc., and that one should have to be responsible about their use of health care (no ER abuse, use preventive care, etc.). How do you feel about it? What would you like to see done to reform health care in the US?
The, now, infamous "Executive Privilege"
Crooks are crooks - just like tricky dicky
Obama keeps state secrets privilege
Just to start a discussion about this, were Obama's eyes opened as he learned more about this program or was he sent to the "Dick Cheny mind meld machine?" (quote from Bryan Cunningham, former CIA and Justice Department attorney.)
Even if he could prove citizenship, which he
a citizen once he was adopted by the Indonesian stepfather. Once a child is adopted by someone from another country, they cannot claim citizenship to that country any longer, even if they were born there.
He has yet to produce immigration papers which show he applied for citizenship to this country, just like any "illegal" would have to do.
NOT TRUE. No one can take your US citizenship from you
.
Citizenship argument...another red herring on
Get over yourself.
Obama has never denounced his citizenship
as it relates to his citizenship to the country of Indonesia or denounced his citizenship as it relates to the country of Kenya.
He cannot produce a “vault” (original) long version of a birth certificate showing his birth in Hawaii but he does have a "vault" (original) long version of a birth certificate in Kenya.
Interesting as to what he does have and what he can't produce.
He lost his citizenship upon adoption by his
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He had the right to accept his Kenyan citizenship... sm
at age 21 and since he didn't, it expired. Hence his only citizenship is his American citizenship.
Because he had no citizenship to denounce in the first place. sm
Go back and read the post. Indonesia, at the time that Obama lived there, did not recognize dual citizenship, therefore nullifying his supposed US citizenship. In order to attend school in Indonesia, he had to be a citizen of the country and he was made a citizen of that country by the adoption of his stepfather. His school card in the link below lists him as an Indonesian citizen and his religion as Muslim.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=72656
I am no expert but....it has something to do with "dual citizenship." sm
My best friend's husband was a Dutch citizen. (He has since been naturalized). They have 3 children. The kids could claim both Dutch and American citizenship up until the age of 18. Then they had to make a choice of which citizenship to renounce. Now that was back in the 80's so things may have changed since then. Not sure if this explains it or not.
Bottom line, no one can renounce the citizenship...sm
of an American citizen, period, whether they are adopted by a noncitizen or not. Obama had the right to claim Nigerian citizenship at age 21 but did not.
Interesting post regarding US Citizenship on another board...
Not true at all, even if your parent is a us citizen, if you are born in another country, you are a us citizen, but you are forever disqualified from running for president. This does not apply to military bases and diplomats. That is the law. My boss happens to have been born in canada to us citizens working there at the time. Took him 3 years to be able to get a passport to leave the us on vacation and yes they notified him he could never run for president. That is the difference between being a us citizen and a naturalized us citizen.
I believe it is also the same for anyone whom has ever claimed citizenship outside of the us, once you claim citizenship anywhere else, you are disqualified from running for president.
I don't tihnk a BC proof of citizenship is stupid.
Let the "stupid crap" go on until it is cleared up. I'm sick of hearing it, too, but I'll be dang if I want someone who is not a citizen to run our country. I want to know the truth and, so far, that truth isn't there. Too much secrecy (sp?) to warm my toes. It opens a whole 'nother can of worms if he is not a citizen, yet becomes president anyway.
It would mean a constitutional rule struck down and, (I shudder to think of this) even terrorists could run our country if they so desire and could pay off people who's vote count. Gee, do you want Chevez or Putnin to run our country? How about Ayers or Wright?
I'm just pointing out a few things here. There's too many question as why this was not resolved and why, all of a sudden, his records in Hawaii were sealed or whatever, after he went to "visit his sick grandmother."
Truth is all I want and I don't have it yet. But I will let the SC decide (if they weren't bribed) and then, I will embrace the O as a president until he screws up which, eventually, he will. He's coming off as "too perfect". There is no one "perfect" in my eyes.
It does not matter if he has quadruple citizenship was born on Pluto,
any other fool notion you can come up with. Obama is a citizen of the United States and no number of lawsuits, appeals, attorneys or McC camp supporters is going to change that. These ridiculous distractions have rendered the rest of this campaign down to the level of a technical moot point. When you are in a hole (as the wise SP has pointed out), the first thing you do is to stop digging. However, you guys have managed to run the clock so far down, that there is really no way out by this time. Congratulations on your failed campaign. Cut your losses, go back to the drawing board, decide what you need to be doing for your fractured party and try to figure out what you will be doing in 2012 about your leadership vacuum. The citizenship issue is a dead end. Believe it or not. Nobody cares because it poses no threat whatsoever to Obama if you continue to rale about this until h@ll freezes over.
Not true, No one can give up the citizenship of a child who is a US citizen. nm
.
Gun ban in UK - crime went up...
nm
Immigration attys probable grasp basic citizenship concepts.
rasberries
What the Indonesian govt requires for adoption, citizenship, religious affiliation
anything else is of NO CONCERN to the US govt when it comes to recognizing or preserving citizenship status of a natural born US citizen. Check the constitution. Check the State Department website. Check the immigration law statutes and stop making a complete idjit of yourself. You have been hanging in the fringe chat rooms too long. His citizenship was not renounced. I am sure his parents jumped through whatever hoops they needed to in order to live in the country and enroll their child in school, much the same way my own daughter is doing with her child while living in a Moslem country in the Middle East. They hold passports from there AND American passports and do not have to immigrate back to the country of their origin. The US govt turns a blind eye to this and preserves the integrity of its natural born folks. My God, you are a dense one, aren't you?
I never said that he committed a crime...
nor did I ever say I found him personally offensive. I do not believe that he will make a good president because I disagree with his stance on most of the issues that I find important. I also believe that he made a lot of promises that he can never keep because he does not have that power. Personally, I am not all that into the birth certificate thing because I think he probably is a natural born citizen. I find it hard to believe that he would have made it this far were he not. Why is it okay for people to dislike Bush, but I MUST like Obama?
Please explain that crime
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Of course! O prevents crime
On the other hand, if there had been MORE crime, it would have been blamed on Bush, or possibly Palin.
potentially a crime?
13 firms receiving federal bailout owe back taxes
By STEPHEN OHLEMACHER, Associated Press Writer Stephen Ohlemacher, Associated Press Writer – 59 mins ago
States Attorney General Eric Holder, left, shares a moment with Rep. John Lewis, D-Ga., prior …
WASHINGTON – At least 13 firms receiving billions of dollars in bailout money owe a total of more than $220 million in unpaid federal taxes, a key lawmaker said Thursday.
Rep. John Lewis, D-Ga., chairman of a House subcommittee overseeing the federal bailout, said two firms owe more than $100 million apiece.
"This is shameful. It is a disgrace," said Lewis. "We are going to get to the bottom of what is going on here."
The House Ways and Means subcommittee on oversight discovered the unpaid taxes in a review of tax records from 23 of the firms receiving the most money, Lewis said as he opened a hearing on the issue.
The committee said it could not legally release the names of the companies owing taxes. It said one recipient had almost $113 million in unpaid federal income taxes from 2005 and 2006. A second recipient owed almost $102 million dating to before 2004. Another was behind $1.1 million in federal income taxes and $223,000 in federal employment taxes.
"If we looked at all 470 recipients, how much would they owe?" Lewis asked.
Lewis said the panel plans to review tax records from other firms receiving federal money, but he was unsure if it would look at every firm.
"We're not done," he said.
Banks and other firms receiving federal money were required to sign contracts stating they had no unpaid taxes, Lewis said. But he said the Treasury Department did not ask them to turn over their tax records.
Neil Barofsky, special inspector general for the Troubled Asset Relief Program, told the hearing that if an executive signed a contract knowing that information about unpaid taxes was false, "that would potentially be a crime." He said his office will look to see if crimes were committed.
No one from the Treasury Department appeared at Thursday's hearing. Lewis said he asked Treasury officials for a private briefing on their efforts to uncover unpaid taxes, as well as someone to testify at Thursday's hearing.
"They said no one was available," Lewis said in an interview.
Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner is already under fire on Capitol Hill for not preventing $165 million in bonuses from being paid to employees at troubled insurance giant AIG.
People will ask, said Rep. Artur Davis, D-Ala., why there are "large companies getting taxpayer dollars, making false representations, and we can't even name them, much less make them pay the money back, much less prosecute them."
Davis continued: "Will they get their day on a billboard, hopefully?"
"Absolutely," said Barofsky. If someone lied, he said, "They need to be prosecuted."
The revelation is sure to spark outrage on Capitol Hill, where the House is expected to vote Thursday on a bill that would impose steep taxes on employee bonuses at AIG and other firms that have received bailout money.
To date, the Troubled Asset Relief Program, or TARP, has paid out more than $300 billion to private companies, with billions more on the way.
Don't do the crime if you can't do the time!
x
But it's never a hate crime....
....when a black person attacks a white person? Believe me, there are people of every race who hate one race or another for some stupid reason. Don't quote me on this but I think the Chinese are embarrassed and angered if mistaken for Koreans.
We are all God's people. It's a shame.
Obama will be a one termer, not because of an assassination, because in under six months he's managed to anger many folks including the Jews and gays. Broken promises and lies. People believed he would pay their mortgages and gas. Unbelievable. Obama voters are getting their wakeup call. Wow. Even I thought it would take longer than this.
Guess Who's Soft on Crime...sm
Guess Who's Soft on Crime
Our system of “justice” has descended so far into routine thuggishness that even the blogosphere seems to have let this horror pass unnoticed. Sure, it’s only Texas, but still …
A crooked cop named Tom Coleman was hired in 1998 to conduct a drug investigation in Tulia, Texas, which he did by inventing evidence against 39 innocent men and women, almost all black. Most of the victims were jailed on the sole basis of Coleman’s lies, for terms ranging up to 90 years. When this vicious scheme finally fell apart, the governor pardoned 33 of Coleman’s victims, who won a settlement of $6 million. The badge-carrying perp was tried and convicted for perjury, a crime carrying a maximum sentence of ten years in Texas. A judge called him “the most devious, nonresponsive law enforcement witness this court has witnessed in 25 years on the bench in Texas.” Which, in Texas, we may presume is going some.
So a jury of twelve good men and true — none of them black — found this vicious, corrupt rogue cop guilty of what one judge had called “blatant perjury.” And the jurors threw the book at him, recommending seven whole years on probation. This sounded about right to the trial judge, who is expected to slap Coleman’s wrist really, really hard at the sentencing Tuesday.
She's committing a federal crime
Nofify the Federal Marshalls and they'll bust her. I lived down the street from a girl doing that and she went to federal prison!
Rigging Elections is a Crime
The McCain/Palin GOP is already in the process of stealing the Ohio vote, as was done in 2004. Among those at the center of the GOP strategy is Bush Family computer operative Michael Connell, who programmed the key vote counting mechanisms that were used to give George W. Bush his second term.
ttp://www.truthout.org/article/ten-ways-gop-is-now-stealing-ohio-vote
You see crime being a result of economy, but I see
Oh well don't you know it's not a hate crime when it's against a woman
Only race, religion, etc. No, not a hate crime when it's against a woman... unbelievably, but that's the country we live in. And it's the same reason everything went down the way it did in the primaries, and now in this election.
Do you also blame victims of crime and
inciting the crimes perpetrated against them. Yours is truly an ignorant, ignorant statement.
OMG. Fine...go look at the crime statistics.
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Like someone else asked, BB, explain the crime
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Oh, c'mon... the low crime was not only related to - s/msg
the HUGE police/secret service presence that was obviously there, but mainly to the mood. It's the first good news that everyday people in the US have had in a long, long time. It was just one day out of many, where people enjoyed the moment, the hope, the inauguration itself, the promise of the new administration, and a feel-good moment. We all know the glow won't last forever, but why not bask in it and enjoy a great moment in history. Even if you voted for the other candidate, you still have to admit that it was a truly great day for African Americans and ALL Americans to see democracy work right for a change, instead of being fixed and rigged. It was truly a magical day that many in this country, Repub or Dem, will remember for a lifetime.
Why did the Kennedy's have ties to organized crime?
Why was the Texas Democratic party of Lyndon Johnson horribly corrupt?
Why was Lyndon Johnson's election to the senate in 1948 won by massive voter fraud?
Why did Lyndon Johnson insert language into the IRS code in 1954 that prohibited non-profits, including churches, from endorsing or opposing candidates for political office. In effect, this thoroughly corrupt man used the power of the IRS to silence his opposition. Unfortunately, it worked. Why? His disservice to religious freedom has yet to be undone. Why?
How did Kennedy defeat Nixon in Illinois?
Just rhetorical questions.
Yes, you skirted the issue. He DID commit a crime.
Yep, we agree to disgree. Him lying under oath was totally on HIM, and THAT is the real issue. He could have told the truth at any time and avoided the impeachment hearings and the whole thing. He could have taken the wind out of any investigation, if he had just told the truth. It would have gone away. If sex with a 21-year-old girl in the White House where he and his wife and daughter lived was no big deal, why did he just not own up to it? Because he is a coward and morally bankrupt would be my guess. For whatever reason, he chose not to. No one twisted his arm behind his back and made him perjure himself. He did that all by his lonesome. While I find what he did with Monica Lewinsky tasteless at a minimum, and stupid at a maximum, that is not the most objectionable thing I find about him. The fact that he committed a felony, something you or I would go to jail for and there are people in jail for today...sorry, you defend him if you like, and continue to give him a pass. That is the part of the value system, his and his party's, that baffles me.
Agreed. It's abuse of power AND a crime
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Did everyone see the post below about the UK's gun ban and crime rate rising? sm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1440764.stm
Use of gun-related crime increased 40% during the gun ban and smuggling of guns was rampant, along with people turning every possible object into a gun. Not the answer obviously.
those boys were not charged with a racist crime -
they were charged with burglary, disorderly conduct, and theft.
According to what I read, they cannot be charged with a hate crime because Obama is a political figure and therefore it would be considered a "free speech" issue and not a hate crime. If he were an everyday citizen, then he could be charged with a hate crime.
Either way, for Palin and Obama, it was repulsive to me!
I must be misreading the Hate Crime Bill
Nothing I've read says that any of the things that are crimes now (such as pedophilia) will be considered any less of a crime...pedophilia is still an arrestable offense. My interpretation of what I've read is that the only thing this bill does is expand the group of people who it is okay to assault/kill simply based on their lifestyle changes. In other words, you can't kill someone just because they're gay, Buddhist, Belgian, short, or ugly. It doesn't decriminalize any behavior to my reading. That concept seems to be a figment of somebody's imagination, and much like the game of telephone we played as small children, the actual facts of the bill have gotten more twisted with each telling.
A hate crime occurs at least once every hour in the
Wasn't this predicted recently?
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gvUetkOxJwgY0GbCxg1_f75A1CqA
It's not a crime to state your religious views in public.
We don't have to keep it in our homes or our churches. Freedom of religion covers that too!
I can't bring myself to conclude that Bush had a hand in the crime...sm
I think his office new an attack was coming and did not inform the public.
There are also some very interesting findings such as the insurance policy taken out on the WTC with a terrorism provision only a few weeks before the attack. There were other actions that were taken by our government in the months preceeding the attacks that do not add up to it being a surprise attack.
We'll discuss that crime when Bush et al are done with their trial.
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New Mexico, Arizona Declare Border Emergencies to Fight Crime
What a shame that these two governors had to declare states of emergency simply because we have at president who knows that this problem exists but just doesn’t care enough about preventing another 9/11 to do anything about it.
From: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000086&sid=akXph_LySDzs&refer=latin_america#
New Mexico, Arizona Declare Border Emergencies to Fight Crime
Aug. 17 (Bloomberg) -- New Mexico and Arizona governors declared states of emergency for their borders with Mexico, pledging to increase funding to stop the rise in drug smuggling and violence by illegal immigrants.
New Mexico's Bill Richardson and Arizona's Janet Napolitano blamed a lack of money from the federal government that has left the borders and their residents unprotected by U.S. patrols.
``Governor Richardson was asked to take this action by local law enforcement and ranch families.'' Billy Sparks, Richardson's chief of staff, said in a phone interview today.
The declarations were made Friday by Richardson, 47, and yesterday by Napolitano, 47. Richardson, who has been named a possible 2008 presidential candidate, said in a press release there has been ``total inaction and lack of resources from the federal government.''
The escalation in violence during the past month, including gunshots fired at Columbus, New Mexico, police chief Clare May, the attempted kidnapping of three girls and the deaths of 100 cattle along New Mexico's 180-mile border with Mexico prompted Richardson to declare the emergency, Sparks said.
The declaration makes $750,000 of state funding available in affected counties. Richardson pledged to make an additional $1 million available. The money will be used to increase local law enforcement, open a new homeland security office in the border region and help build a fence to protect livestock near Columbus.
Fences, Neighbors
Unlike some border areas in the U.S., landowners in New Mexico maintain their own fences to keep illegal immigrants off their property. In one case a landowner's entire fence was stolen, Sparks said. The U.S. Border Patrol has 109 workers for 200 miles from El Paso, Texas, across New Mexico to Arizona, said Sparks. That is expected to increase by 75 in October.
Napolitano's order makes $1.5 million available to fight crime along the border, according to her press release.
``I intend to take every action feasible to stem the tide of criminal behavior on the Arizona side of the border,'' she said.
The number of unauthorized immigrants entering the U.S. each year rose to more than 700,000 in 2004 from 140,000 in the 1980s, according to the Arizona declaration.
Questions about the security of the U.S. border with Mexico have risen since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks as officials have tried to limit movement into the U.S. of potential terrorists along with the illegal immigrants and drug smugglers. Immigration restrictions have forced more illegal crossings over landowner- built fences in Arizona and New Mexico.
The border emergency declarations were reported earlier today by the New York Times.
Numbers Jump
So far in the fiscal year that began in October, agents in the Yuma, Arizona, sector of the U.S. border patrol have captured 122,344 illegal immigrants, said Michael Gramley, spokesman for the sector. The previous record was 108,000 in 2000. The Yuma sector covers 126 miles of border in Arizona and California.
``We're taking greater strides toward reaching a higher level of border security,'' said Gramley, in a phone interview. ``The border patrol values any assistance that we receive from state, local and tribal law enforcement agencies.''
Federal officials said they have been making progress in increasing border security.
``Extraordinary progress has been made over the last couple of years as far as strengthening our borders,'' said Jarrod Agen, spokesman for the U.S. Department of Homeland Security. He declined to comment on the state of emergency in Arizona and New Mexico. ``It's the authority of the governors there.''
Both governors called on authorities in Mexico to increase security on their sides of the border, the press releases said.
Mexico's Response
Mexico's Ministry of Foreign Affairs said in a statement yesterday that it had agreed after meeting with Napolitano to support her actions and work to reduce crime on its side of the border. The ministry blamed organized crime for the border problems.
``On that side and on this side there's organized crime,'' Mexican President Vicente Fox said in an interview with reporters during a visit to the northern border state of Sonora yesterday. ``On that side and this side there's drug consumption. The question is how do all the drugs that cross over there reach the consumer markets? What's being done on that side?''
Texas Governor Rick Perry, 55 doesn't plan to declare an emergency because he believes protecting the U.S. border is the federal government's responsibility, said Robert Black, Perry's spokesman, in a phone interview. Texas's 1,200-mile border with Mexico is the longest of any U.S. state with a foreign country.
``The governor had said that you can't have homeland security without the federal government,'' said Black. ``The feds can't avoid their responsibility to the states.'' To contact the reporter on this story:
Darrell Preston in Dallas at dpreston@bloomberg.net.
Last Updated: August 17, 2005 14:52 EDT
Obama is letting them drop charges against terrorists for this horrible sick crime???
What orifice did you pull this out of?
*Compassionate Conservative* Bill Bennett: Abort every black baby, reduce crime.
William Bennett Defends Comment on Abortion and Crime
'Book of Virtues' Author Says Hypothetical Remark Was Valid
By JAKE TAPPER
- After pondering on his radio program how aborting every black infant in America would affect crime rates, best-selling author and self-styled Values Czar Bill Bennett is vehemently denying he is a racist and defending his willingness to speak publicly about race and crime.
On the Wednesday edition of his radio show, Bill Bennett's Morning in America, syndicated by Salem Radio Network, a caller raised the theory that Social Security is in danger of becoming insolvent because legalized abortion has reduced the number of tax-paying citizens. Bennett said economic arguments should never be employed in discussions of moral issues.
If it were your sole purpose to reduce crime, Bennett said, You could abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down.
That would be an impossible, ridiculous and morally reprehensible thing to do, but your crime rate would go down, he added.
Outrage From Democrats
Bennett was secretary of education for President Ronald Reagan and is considered one of the Republican Party's big brains. But this week Democrats and some Republicans seemed to also question if Bennett's mouth is of size as well.
Democrats expressed outrage, ranging from demands for an apology to requests that the Federal Communications Commission suspend Bennett's show.
Republicans, Democrats and all Americans of good will should denounce this statement, should distance themselves from Mr. Bennett, said Rep. Jesse Jackson, Jr., D-Ill. And the private sector should not support Mr. Bennett's radio show or his comments on the air.
I'm not even going to comment on something that disgusting, said Sen. Patrick Leahy, D-Vt. Really, I'm thinking of my black grandchild and I'm going to hold (off).
'Things That People Are Thinking'
In an interview with ABC News, Bennett said that anyone who knows him knows he isn't racist. He said he was merely extrapolating from the best-selling book Freakonomics, which posits the hypothesis that falling crimes rates are related to increased abortion rates decades ago. It would have worked for, you know, single-parent moms; it would have worked for male babies, black babies, Bennett said. So why immediately bring up race when discussing crime rates? There was a lot of discussion about race and crime in New Orleans, Bennett said. There was discussion – a lot of it wrong – but nevertheless, media jumping on stories about looting and shooting and gangs and roving gangs and so on.
There's no question this is on our minds, Bennett said. What I do on our show is talk about things that people are thinking … we don't hesitate to talk about things that are touchy.
Bennett said, I'm sorry if people are hurt, I really am. But we can't say this is an area of American life (and) public policy that we're not allowed to talk about – race and crime.
Robert George, an African-American, Republican editorial writer for the New York Post, agrees that Bennett's comments were not meant as racist. But he worries they feed into stereotypes of Republicans as insensitive. His overall point about not making broad sociological claims and so forth, that was a legitimate point, George said. But it seems to me someone with Bennett's intelligence … should know better the impact of his words and sort of thinking these things through before he speaks.
The blunt-spoken Bennett has ruffled feathers before, most recently in 2003 for revelations that despite his best-selling books about virtue and values, he is a high-rolling preferred customer at Las Vegas and Atlantic City casinos.
In light of accusations that the Bush administration should have been more sensitive to black victims of Hurricane Katrina, a Republican official told ABC News that Bennett's comments were probably as poorly timed as they were politically incorrect.
ABC News' Avery Miller, Karen Travers and Toni L. Wilson contributed to this report.
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