Bush ignored the intelligence reports.
Posted By: Bushwacked on 2008-12-21
In Reply to: And you think that terrorist attack was planned in just a few months during his presidency? - nm
The attack most likely had been planned for a long time, but Bush and his cronies ignored all of the intelligence reports they received that indicated that a huge attack using airplanes was imminent. If he wants credit for keeping us safe since 9/11, he has to take credit for not keeping us safe on 9/11!
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Protect us???? He did not listen to all the Intelligence Reports....sm
that a large-scale attack was imminent, his Daddy lit the flame by going over to Iraq the first time to secure Daddy Bush's and his friend's oil interests there, they did not care a FIG about the poor Kuwaitis! We are more hated as a nation now, because of the Bush policies, than we have EVER been in history, and instead if his getting Bin Ladin, as he vowed, he helped the Bin Ladin family living in LA to escape the country becaue of the wrath of the people. Speaking of Kool-Aid? Blind pubs must have bought the factory and have been living on the stuff the past 8 years, unbelievable!
Funny it's okay to post inflammatory reports about Bush (nm)
x
Even in these reports
waterboarding and applying electric currents to body parts is defined as torture. Latter was not mentioned in the report, but it was done in Abu Ghraib, we saw the pictures.
These tortures were done on prisoners of whom 'there was sufficient suspicion of having connections to Al-Quaida.' Suspicion? Does this justify torture? Of all immates in Abu Ghraib 90% were innocent. Can you imagine being innocent and being tortured to death, as they have nothing to confess?
Soldiers Garner and England were definitely sadists.
This is not something new or exaggerated - see these old reports ---
http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/pollack070306.html
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5185887
http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0510/17/A01-351179.htm
This was started back in the 80s and until recently there was no limit for how long you could draw the money. The $31 - well, each article brings up that amount of money and none of them say that includes benefits... they say they are paid that per hour - and playing games - yes, each article talks about the pay per hour, the wastefulness of being able to sit there day after day (the limit now is 2 years per person), but it is still wasteful! Yes, help them, but the rest of us draw unemployment at a reduced rate of pay and then only for 26 weeks or so...
why does everybody think those people are so special? You all fuss about spreading the wealth from the rich to the poor, but you sure don't give a darn about us poor folks who are busting our butt spreading what little bit we have to the rich ---
I for one am darn sick of it!!!
You must have missed the reports about
who all was in the audience and how he only invited the folks that he believes have supported him (AKA AGREED with him) over his presidency. Guess O just did't measure up to the criteria for that elite fraternity.
What reports are you reading.. your OWN
nm
Current Rasmussen Reports
Poll shows Obama leading 260 electoral votes to McCain 167 votes. If you take the "likely states" the votes change to Obama 300, McCain 174.
Rasmussen has lots of interesting polls on its site, for what they are worth, but it is interesting to watch them change week-to-week and some of them even day-to-day.
www.rasmussenreports.com
they copied those reports from other papers -
the same report was in LA times, the Anchorage Daily News, American Power, Political Affairs, not just on those one-sided sites -
Sorry, I was just posting the obvious that SP was not qualified as a leader of the military just because she is over the Alaskan National Guard when they are not activated. It does not matter where that news comes from - it is still true.
I hope you don't think I got those reports from the Media?
They came directly from the minutes of those debates, not the media.
Maybe you should read government reports
I posted a lot of links a while back about the economy and terrorism prior to O becoming president.
Clinton knew the terrorists were getting ready for an attack, but just didn't know how and when it would happen. He could have stopped it, had he had GOOD information from the CIA, FBI. Those two groups were part of the reason we were attacked. They didn't work together or share information. There were plenty of warnings. He also knew there were WMDs in Iraq. It's in the report, but he didn't do anything about it and, in the meantime, Saddam tested his WMDs on his own people, killing thousands.
Clinton also did not leave such a large surplus. He and the accounting office cooked the books to make it look good. There was a surplus but not near as much as Clinton stated.
Global warming...I don't believe it. This is a natural happening every so many decades. It will turn around on its own in its own time. Part of the so-called global warming is the people. There are too many people in the world. People breathe in oxygen and give off carbon dioxide. Without trees, we're in trouble. Sounds dumb, but if you want to point fingers, point to the Amazon and destroying the rain forests. Prior to the Amazon forests being destroyed at the rate they are today, there was no problem.
Making peace instead of war doesn't work with terrorists. You have to "walk softly and carry a big stick." O is trying to charm them into peace and we all know that won't work. You have to be ruthless with them or else they will think the US is a pushover. If O wants to keep our country safe, he has to be a combination of FDR, JFK, Reagan, and both Bush's.
Instead of O going on talk shows and joking around, he should have his finger on the pulse of Washington and bring his congress and senate in line. They are so out of control, it's ridiculous. He has to stay in the WH or, before he knows it, those power mongers will be in power, not him (of course, that has already happened).
If O wants to turn this country around, he needs to let the people do it on their own. Government can't solve everybody's problems. People need to solve their own problems. Money doesn't solve any problems, it just creates more. More social programs that we can't pay for doesn't solve problems. It creates a society that depends on the government for all its needs. That's not the American way. If businesses fail, so be it. If banks fail, so be it. You can't prop up those failures by throwing money at them...as you well know, most of those failures are caused by inept CEOs. Remember Dodge, Cadillac, Studebaker, Rambler, etc.? Those businesses failed. GM and Chrylster absorbed some, but not all. The rest died. Did the world come to an end because of it? No.
As for the rest, small banks are gobbled up by large banks. Should they? No. It causes a monopoly and when that happens, that's a problem. Comcast is the largest cable company in the country. How did it get that way? By gobbling up the smaller ones. If I wanted to leave Comcast, I couldn't because there is no other cable company in this area. I am FORCED to have Comcast if I want internet service. There is no free enterprise when companies become conglomerates.
Oh shucks, some will understand what I'm saying, others will still keep their rose-colored glasses on and believe government will solve all our problems. NOT.
Fox news web site reports over 700 dead. sm
It was a sunni attack on sunnis and it's more than likely retaliation for the constitution. Iraq is definitely headed toward cival war.
Fed reports economy continued to deteriorate
Gee, I'd been wondering why we were paying the big bucks to these Fed officials and now I know. So they can tell us things we could have told them (for a lot less money, too).
Perhaps we should call the Fed "MOOSE" (the Ministry For Obvious Official Statements on the Economy)? You can see now why we needed Palin, who knows how to field dress a moose.
...and then there was Obama the other day telling Congress not to spend too much money. In case you didn't catch what I just said, this was Mr. Super-Deficit Obama, telling Congress they should watch the spending.
I think that the White House has been listening to the national backlash on Daddy MoreBucks' drunken spending spree, and wants to have something they can float during Obama's next campaign to show how fiscally responsible he is. Certainly, there's no connection between what he says and what he does.
But wait - we're already seeing Obama's next campaign, aren't we? The man never stops campaigning.
Thanks. Was going to mention there's a special "monitor" board for reports.
Hope it works!!
We didn't receive moronic reports like this back then. Let me explain.
This report is so broad and covers so many perfectly harmless individuals and so many perfectly legitimate political beliefs that it is not actionable. It's stupid because it's useless, and that's why it would have been laughed out of the squad room. This wasn't "intelligence"; it was amateurish gibberish - and it wouldn't have done one thing to prevent McVeigh's actions, if for no other reason that every cop in Oklahoma City would have been tied up watching the wrong people - perhaps you, for instance.
I'd say 70% of the people in America share at least one of the "issues" that this report enumerates as portending extremism. That's what makes it rubbish, and that's also what makes it alarming.
I don't know about intelligence...sm
but I do feel that it will be the people in Washington in power are the ones that will benefit the most from an Obama White House, and a democratic majority in Congress. They want power and control over this country and its people. Truly frightening, in my opinion.
While the lower income bracket may benefit in some ways, truly, the majority of American people and their way of life, will not, and will be changed forever.
It will take at least a generation to recover from this. I fear the most for our children and grandchildren. They will have a hard time attaining what was once the American dream.
How much INTELLIGENCE does it take to
nm
Thanks, anyway. But with intelligence, you can
nm
So much for your pre-speech intelligence
He did talk about the war.... Hey, wait a minute, your intelligence was bad....You lied to us!!! You twisted the information to fit your post...Don't you want to apologize and tell us all what a terrible mistake you made!!!!  How does it feel to be called a liar without justification?
I am not underestimating the intelligence....
I do not doubt the intelligence. But there are a fair number of people who either don't care what the man is about or refuse to see it. I think bankrupting coal plants is a critical issue. I think being accepting of skyrocketing power bills for US to make a point is a critical issue. I think redistribution of wealth is a critical issue.
Bottom line tho..if he is elected, and if he does what he promises...be very careful what you ask for. Ask Venezuela and Cuba what a failed socialist state looks like.
please do not insult my intelligence
Why do people here do that? You do not know me so do know presume that I am "not familiar with workers' movements and do not keep up with the news." You do not have to accept my opinion; I do not have to accept yours. But please realize I have every right to hold that opinion and to express it. Just because i see it differently than you does not give you the right to demean my knowledge of the subject. I have lived on the side of those who were definitely hurt be unionization. My opinion comes from personal experience as well as other sources. I am outta here now.
Intelligence offends you? First of all,
he beat the Clinton machine at their own game, and you should be way happy about that, at least Hilary is not Prez. Secondly, he is a black man who has been elected by the American people as President of the United States. Forgive me, but a dumb black man could never have accomplished that. You should be thanking God that we finally have a man in office who is intelligent, who may be able to help you and the rest of the middle class get a leg up. And a plus, he can make intelligent conversation with speaking in sentences, unlike W. Give the man a chance, he hasn't even been sworn in. No one bad-mouthed W until he royally screwed the American people.
Intelligence Committee?
A congressional delegation made what was supposed to be a top secret trip to Iraq this week. A few media outlets, including Congressional Quarterly, learned about it but agreed not to disclose anything until the delegation had left Iraq.
So what did Rep. Peter Hoekstra, R-Michigan do? By the way, Hoekstra is a former chairman of the Intelligence Committee and is still a ranking member. Hoekstra BLOGGED about the trip on his Twitter page and included details about their itinerary in updates posted every few hours.
In a related note, a recent debate between candidates for Republican National Committee chair featured an argument over who had more friends on Facebook. It's good to see the Republican party is embracing new technology.
Any person with intelligence would
see that this is a facetious post. No one really wants this to happen. This was just trying to prove a point and obviously the dems have twisted it around to be treason. I can't help but laugh at the idiocy on this board. It is so much better to call people names and cry about the last 8 years than to take a good look at what is going on in the world now. No worries though. When Obama runs this country into the ground, you will still blame Bush and live in your happy little demented bubble drinking kool-aid.
Wake up people. Bush is out of office. It is Obama's turn now. So let's pay attention to what he is doing....shall we?
Intelligence bores you?
.
I wonder what is the average IQ intelligence of Americans
Red State Road Trip: A 60-Minute Documentary
A Film by Chris Hume and L. Wild Horse |
QuickTime
DSL | 56K
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One would have to have a certain level of intelligence to be bored. sm
You are the weakest link. Buh-bye now. 
Are you sure your are not confusing arrogance with intelligence and sm
confidence? Those are the qualities we need in a president aren't they?
Intelligence offends you? Just an observation.
Oh oh, another big word....
Intentional Intelligence is my game!
I am way too smart to let your feeble attempts at right-wing propaganda affect the decisions I make regarding this election. I consider the source and do not give you a second thought! I have seen you repeat your talking points over and over and over again, hoping that if you repeat them often enough people will somehow believe that they are true. Well you don't fool me! You will have to find some of your Joe six-pack buddies and try to sell your line of crap to them. I am with the elite group!
Oh my...another Obama fan proves their intelligence
or lack thereof. How sad.
I always thought you had more intelligence than most of the left.
Palin has more intelligence than you would ever give
nm
Typical right-wing intelligence.
.
How pathetic. I am not scared by intelligence.
nm
Wow, the intelligence in this message is astounding
x
OK, they agreed. Doesn't mean the intelligence was correct, and it obviously
wasn't, hence, no WMDs, no connection to Al Quaeda. Just getting rid of a brutal dictator - hey, I can live with that. So, does that mean we are now the world police?
Clinton has never, I mean never as far as I can recall or read made a connection to Al Quada and Iraq as was done by this admin. Our reasons for attacking Iraq under the Clinton admin. was in response to Saddam not complying with UN sanctions. Two different things.
The links to Al Quada that are operating in Iraq today are there in oposition to the US preemptive military action in Iraq. They simply were not there before this war began. Our president knew there was no connection before we went to war.
I remember when *intelligence* actually meant knowledge...sm
No I don't want to sit around and wait to be killed along with my loved ones or anyone else's, but when my day and time comes there's nothing anyone can say or do to stop it. What I don't agree with is the preemptive war in Iraq..period. And you are sadly mistaken, IF Saddam had ordered an attack or enabled an attack like 9-11 to be carried out in America I would be the first to stand up and say let's go get him. But, then Bush probably would go after Kim Jong-il, go figure.
Al Quaeda attacked America, yet we have spent the majority of our time and energy in Iraq fighting insurgents in that country and IMHO made more enemies for ourselves.
What a stupid comparison. Anyone with minimal intelligence...sm
could not say they think SP would make a competent president. Get a grip!
Actually, I do have "at least" minimal intelligence, and I think she's just as qualified as
It's not like she was plucked out of the PTA without doing anything else. I can't see that Obama has done anything more than she has besides vote present and campaign.
People should have to pass an intelligence test
.
Typical pub. Underestimates the intelligence of US voters.
x
Underestimating the intelligence of the American voter
It's what makes them think replacing critical issues debate with smears, scare tactics and politics of division can win an election.
Israeli intelligence is far superior to our own...at this point
This man knows these things because he has been involved in Israel's intelligence community since the late 60s early 70s and is currently a consultant to the US.
Did you know that our fed gov is currently hiring like gangbusters? They are striving to improve our security as a nation. Surprise! We actually have a president who is trying to improve things! We will get attacked under Obama's watch - you can pretty much count on it. But, I suspect he will not ignore intelligence warnings beforehand - like Bush did.
McCain supporters intelligence sinks to an all time low. nm
x
U.S. Army Intelligence Analyst Accused of Disloyaty for Doubts...
Thousands are rallying behind this guy as the story makes its way around the web. The story is just below the picture.
http://www.williambowles.info/gispecial/2006/0806/280806/gi_4h28_280806.html
in other words seeing someone as all bad or all good is not an indicator of high intelligence. Bewa
Now apply that to all the Bush bashers, McCain bashers, and Sarah Palin bashers on this board. I agree, sim!! Oh boy do I agree!! LOL.
Common sense, street smarts and intelligence would be ideal.
Considering the choice we were given, I think we did the right thing and that we will be on the mend sooner rather than later.
Bush aides challenge Biden's boasts of Bush slapdowns.
Aides to former President George W. Bush are challenging the veracity of Vice President Joe Biden's claim this week of having privately castigated Bush, who does not remember the incident or an earlier episode in which Biden claims to have similarly rebuked Bush.
Biden spokesman Jay Carney declined to specify the dates of his boss's purported Oval Office scoldings of Bush. Nor would he provide witnesses or notes to corroborate the episodes.
"The vice president stands by his remarks," Carney told FOX News without elaboration.
Those remarks include a shot that Biden took at Bush on Tuesday.
"I remember President Bush saying to me one time in the Oval Office," Biden told CNN, "'Well, Joe,' he said, 'I'm a leader.' And I said: 'Mr. President, turn and around look behind you. No one is following.'"
That exchange never took place, according to numerous Bush aides who also dispute a similar assertion by Biden in 2004, when the former senator from Delaware told scores of Democratic colleagues that he had challenged Bush's moral certitude about the Iraq war during a private meeting in the Oval Office. Two years later, Biden repeated his story about dressing down the president.
"When I speak to the president - and I have had plenty of opportunity to be with the president, at least prior to the last election, a lot of hours alone with him. I mean, meaning me and his staff," Biden said on HBO's "Real Time with Bill Maher" in April 2006. "And the president will say things to me, and I'll literally turn to the president, say: 'Mr. President, how can you say that, knowing you don't know the facts?' And he'll look at me and he'll say - my word - he'll look at me and he'll say: 'My instincts.' He said: 'I have good instincts.' I said: 'Mr. President, your instincts aren't good enough.'"
Bush aides now dispute the veracity of both assertions by Biden.
"I never recall Biden saying any of that," former White House press secretary Ari Fleischer said after reviewing detailed notes of Bush's White House meetings with Biden, which include numerous direct quotes from Biden. "I find it odd that he said he met with him alone all the time. I don't think that's true."
Fleischer said that whenever Bush met with Sen. Biden, the meeting also included a congressional counterpart so as to not "antagonize" the House.
Karl Rove, former White House political adviser, also was skeptical of Biden's claim to have spent "a lot of hours alone" with Bush.
"I remember checking on such a Biden exaggeration while at the White House and no one witnessed the meeting and his comments in remotely the same way," Rove said.
Candida P. Wolff, Bush's White House liaison to Capitol Hill, said the only meetings she remembered between Bush and Biden also included other lawmakers. She said such meetings were held in the Cabinet Room or the Eisenhower Executive Office Building, not the Oval Office, and certainly did not last for "hours."
"The president would never sit through two hours of Joe Biden," Wolff said. "I don't ever remember Biden being in the Oval. He was such a blowhard on all that stuff - there wasn't a reason to bring him in."
Andy Card, former White House chief of staff, reviewed the two Biden claims and said: "This does not ring true to me. I doubt that it happened."
A spokesman for Bush declined comment, although a person close to the former president said Bush does not remember either episode.
This is not the first time the veracity of Biden's assertions has been challenged. In 1988, he dropped out of the presidential race after being accused of plagiarizing British Labor Party leader Neil Kinnock. The Washington Post also cited "the senator's boastful exaggerations of his academic record."
Last year, liberal Slate magazine recalled that "Biden's misdeeds encompassed numerous self-aggrandizing thefts, misstatements, and exaggerations that seemed to point to a serious character defect."
Also last year, Biden came under fire for telling a questionable story about being "shot at" in Iraq.
"Let's start telling the truth," Biden said during a presidential primary debate sponsored by YouTube in July. "Number one, you take all the troops out -- you better have helicopters ready to take those 3,000 civilians inside the Green Zone, where I have been seven times and shot at. You better make sure you have protection for them, or let them die."
But when questioned about the episode afterward by the Hill newspaper, Biden backpedaled from his claim of being "shot at" and instead allowed: "I was near where a shot landed."
Biden went on to say that some sort of projectile "landed" outside a building in the Green Zone where he and another senator had spent the night during a visit in December 2005. The lawmakers were shaving in the morning when they felt the building shake, Biden said.
"No one got up and ran from the room-it wasn't that kind of thing," he told the Hill. "It's not like I had someone holding a gun to my head."
Seven weeks after claiming to have been "shot at" in Iraq, Biden again raised eyebrows with another story about his exploits in war zones -- this time on "the superhighway of terror between Pakistan and Afghanistan, where my helicopter was forced down."
"If you want to know where AL Qaeda lives, you want to know where bin Laden is, come back to Afghanistan with me," Biden bragged to the National Guard Association. "Come back to the area where my helicopter was forced down, with a three-star general and three senators at 10,500 feet in the middle of those mountains. I can tell you where they are."
But it turns out that inclement weather, not terrorists, prompted the chopper to land in an open field during Biden's visit to Afghanistan in February 2008. Fighter jets kept watch overhead while a convoy of security vehicles was dispatched to retrieve Biden and fellow Sens. Chuck Hagel and John Kerry.
"We were going to send Biden out to fight the Taliban with snowballs, but we didn't have to," joked Kerry, a Democrat, to the AP. "Other than getting a little cold, it was fine."
Bush aides challenge Biden's boasts of Bush slapdowns.
Aides to former President George W. Bush are challenging the veracity of Vice President Joe Biden's claim this week of having privately castigated Bush, who does not remember the incident or an earlier episode in which Biden claims to have similarly rebuked Bush.
Biden spokesman Jay Carney declined to specify the dates of his boss's purported Oval Office scoldings of Bush. Nor would he provide witnesses or notes to corroborate the episodes.
"The vice president stands by his remarks," Carney told FOX News without elaboration.
Those remarks include a shot that Biden took at Bush on Tuesday.
"I remember President Bush saying to me one time in the Oval Office," Biden told CNN, "'Well, Joe,' he said, 'I'm a leader.' And I said: 'Mr. President, turn and around look behind you. No one is following.'"
That exchange never took place, according to numerous Bush aides who also dispute a similar assertion by Biden in 2004, when the former senator from Delaware told scores of Democratic colleagues that he had challenged Bush's moral certitude about the Iraq war during a private meeting in the Oval Office. Two years later, Biden repeated his story about dressing down the president.
"When I speak to the president - and I have had plenty of opportunity to be with the president, at least prior to the last election, a lot of hours alone with him. I mean, meaning me and his staff," Biden said on HBO's "Real Time with Bill Maher" in April 2006. "And the president will say things to me, and I'll literally turn to the president, say: 'Mr. President, how can you say that, knowing you don't know the facts?' And he'll look at me and he'll say - my word - he'll look at me and he'll say: 'My instincts.' He said: 'I have good instincts.' I said: 'Mr. President, your instincts aren't good enough.'"
Bush aides now dispute the veracity of both assertions by Biden.
"I never recall Biden saying any of that," former White House press secretary Ari Fleischer said after reviewing detailed notes of Bush's White House meetings with Biden, which include numerous direct quotes from Biden. "I find it odd that he said he met with him alone all the time. I don't think that's true."
Fleischer said that whenever Bush met with Sen. Biden, the meeting also included a congressional counterpart so as to not "antagonize" the House.
Karl Rove, former White House political adviser, also was skeptical of Biden's claim to have spent "a lot of hours alone" with Bush.
"I remember checking on such a Biden exaggeration while at the White House and no one witnessed the meeting and his comments in remotely the same way," Rove said.
Candida P. Wolff, Bush's White House liaison to Capitol Hill, said the only meetings she remembered between Bush and Biden also included other lawmakers. She said such meetings were held in the Cabinet Room or the Eisenhower Executive Office Building, not the Oval Office, and certainly did not last for "hours."
"The president would never sit through two hours of Joe Biden," Wolff said. "I don't ever remember Biden being in the Oval. He was such a blowhard on all that stuff - there wasn't a reason to bring him in."
Andy Card, former White House chief of staff, reviewed the two Biden claims and said: "This does not ring true to me. I doubt that it happened."
A spokesman for Bush declined comment, although a person close to the former president said Bush does not remember either episode.
This is not the first time the veracity of Biden's assertions has been challenged. In 1988, he dropped out of the presidential race after being accused of plagiarizing British Labor Party leader Neil Kinnock. The Washington Post also cited "the senator's boastful exaggerations of his academic record."
Last year, liberal Slate magazine recalled that "Biden's misdeeds encompassed numerous self-aggrandizing thefts, misstatements, and exaggerations that seemed to point to a serious character defect."
Also last year, Biden came under fire for telling a questionable story about being "shot at" in Iraq.
"Let's start telling the truth," Biden said during a presidential primary debate sponsored by YouTube in July. "Number one, you take all the troops out -- you better have helicopters ready to take those 3,000 civilians inside the Green Zone, where I have been seven times and shot at. You better make sure you have protection for them, or let them die."
But when questioned about the episode afterward by the Hill newspaper, Biden backpedaled from his claim of being "shot at" and instead allowed: "I was near where a shot landed."
Biden went on to say that some sort of projectile "landed" outside a building in the Green Zone where he and another senator had spent the night during a visit in December 2005. The lawmakers were shaving in the morning when they felt the building shake, Biden said.
"No one got up and ran from the room-it wasn't that kind of thing," he told the Hill. "It's not like I had someone holding a gun to my head."
Seven weeks after claiming to have been "shot at" in Iraq, Biden again raised eyebrows with another story about his exploits in war zones -- this time on "the superhighway of terror between Pakistan and Afghanistan, where my helicopter was forced down."
"If you want to know where AL Qaeda lives, you want to know where bin Laden is, come back to Afghanistan with me," Biden bragged to the National Guard Association. "Come back to the area where my helicopter was forced down, with a three-star general and three senators at 10,500 feet in the middle of those mountains. I can tell you where they are."
But it turns out that inclement weather, not terrorists, prompted the chopper to land in an open field during Biden's visit to Afghanistan in February 2008. Fighter jets kept watch overhead while a convoy of security vehicles was dispatched to retrieve Biden and fellow Sens. Chuck Hagel and John Kerry.
"We were going to send Biden out to fight the Taliban with snowballs, but we didn't have to," joked Kerry, a Democrat, to the AP. "Other than getting a little cold, it was fine."
Bush aides challenge Biden's boasts of Bush slapdowns.
Aides to former President George W. Bush are challenging the veracity of Vice President Joe Biden's claim this week of having privately castigated Bush, who does not remember the incident or an earlier episode in which Biden claims to have similarly rebuked Bush.
Biden spokesman Jay Carney declined to specify the dates of his boss's purported Oval Office scoldings of Bush. Nor would he provide witnesses or notes to corroborate the episodes.
"The vice president stands by his remarks," Carney told FOX News without elaboration.
Those remarks include a shot that Biden took at Bush on Tuesday.
"I remember President Bush saying to me one time in the Oval Office," Biden told CNN, "'Well, Joe,' he said, 'I'm a leader.' And I said: 'Mr. President, turn and around look behind you. No one is following.'"
That exchange never took place, according to numerous Bush aides who also dispute a similar assertion by Biden in 2004, when the former senator from Delaware told scores of Democratic colleagues that he had challenged Bush's moral certitude about the Iraq war during a private meeting in the Oval Office. Two years later, Biden repeated his story about dressing down the president.
"When I speak to the president - and I have had plenty of opportunity to be with the president, at least prior to the last election, a lot of hours alone with him. I mean, meaning me and his staff," Biden said on HBO's "Real Time with Bill Maher" in April 2006. "And the president will say things to me, and I'll literally turn to the president, say: 'Mr. President, how can you say that, knowing you don't know the facts?' And he'll look at me and he'll say - my word - he'll look at me and he'll say: 'My instincts.' He said: 'I have good instincts.' I said: 'Mr. President, your instincts aren't good enough.'"
Bush aides now dispute the veracity of both assertions by Biden.
"I never recall Biden saying any of that," former White House press secretary Ari Fleischer said after reviewing detailed notes of Bush's White House meetings with Biden, which include numerous direct quotes from Biden. "I find it odd that he said he met with him alone all the time. I don't think that's true."
Fleischer said that whenever Bush met with Sen. Biden, the meeting also included a congressional counterpart so as to not "antagonize" the House.
Karl Rove, former White House political adviser, also was skeptical of Biden's claim to have spent "a lot of hours alone" with Bush.
"I remember checking on such a Biden exaggeration while at the White House and no one witnessed the meeting and his comments in remotely the same way," Rove said.
Candida P. Wolff, Bush's White House liaison to Capitol Hill, said the only meetings she remembered between Bush and Biden also included other lawmakers. She said such meetings were held in the Cabinet Room or the Eisenhower Executive Office Building, not the Oval Office, and certainly did not last for "hours."
"The president would never sit through two hours of Joe Biden," Wolff said. "I don't ever remember Biden being in the Oval. He was such a blowhard on all that stuff - there wasn't a reason to bring him in."
Andy Card, former White House chief of staff, reviewed the two Biden claims and said: "This does not ring true to me. I doubt that it happened."
A spokesman for Bush declined comment, although a person close to the former president said Bush does not remember either episode.
This is not the first time the veracity of Biden's assertions has been challenged. In 1988, he dropped out of the presidential race after being accused of plagiarizing British Labor Party leader Neil Kinnock. The Washington Post also cited "the senator's boastful exaggerations of his academic record."
Last year, liberal Slate magazine recalled that "Biden's misdeeds encompassed numerous self-aggrandizing thefts, misstatements, and exaggerations that seemed to point to a serious character defect."
Also last year, Biden came under fire for telling a questionable story about being "shot at" in Iraq.
"Let's start telling the truth," Biden said during a presidential primary debate sponsored by YouTube in July. "Number one, you take all the troops out -- you better have helicopters ready to take those 3,000 civilians inside the Green Zone, where I have been seven times and shot at. You better make sure you have protection for them, or let them die."
But when questioned about the episode afterward by the Hill newspaper, Biden backpedaled from his claim of being "shot at" and instead allowed: "I was near where a shot landed."
Biden went on to say that some sort of projectile "landed" outside a building in the Green Zone where he and another senator had spent the night during a visit in December 2005. The lawmakers were shaving in the morning when they felt the building shake, Biden said.
"No one got up and ran from the room-it wasn't that kind of thing," he told the Hill. "It's not like I had someone holding a gun to my head."
Seven weeks after claiming to have been "shot at" in Iraq, Biden again raised eyebrows with another story about his exploits in war zones -- this time on "the superhighway of terror between Pakistan and Afghanistan, where my helicopter was forced down."
"If you want to know where AL Qaeda lives, you want to know where bin Laden is, come back to Afghanistan with me," Biden bragged to the National Guard Association. "Come back to the area where my helicopter was forced down, with a three-star general and three senators at 10,500 feet in the middle of those mountains. I can tell you where they are."
But it turns out that inclement weather, not terrorists, prompted the chopper to land in an open field during Biden's visit to Afghanistan in February 2008. Fighter jets kept watch overhead while a convoy of security vehicles was dispatched to retrieve Biden and fellow Sens. Chuck Hagel and John Kerry.
"We were going to send Biden out to fight the Taliban with snowballs, but we didn't have to," joked Kerry, a Democrat, to the AP. "Other than getting a little cold, it was fine."
Bush aides challenge Biden's boasts of Bush slapdowns.
Aides to former President George W. Bush are challenging the veracity of Vice President Joe Biden's claim this week of having privately castigated Bush, who does not remember the incident or an earlier episode in which Biden claims to have similarly rebuked Bush.
Biden spokesman Jay Carney declined to specify the dates of his boss's purported Oval Office scoldings of Bush. Nor would he provide witnesses or notes to corroborate the episodes.
"The vice president stands by his remarks," Carney told FOX News without elaboration.
Those remarks include a shot that Biden took at Bush on Tuesday.
"I remember President Bush saying to me one time in the Oval Office," Biden told CNN, "'Well, Joe,' he said, 'I'm a leader.' And I said: 'Mr. President, turn and around look behind you. No one is following.'"
That exchange never took place, according to numerous Bush aides who also dispute a similar assertion by Biden in 2004, when the former senator from Delaware told scores of Democratic colleagues that he had challenged Bush's moral certitude about the Iraq war during a private meeting in the Oval Office. Two years later, Biden repeated his story about dressing down the president.
"When I speak to the president - and I have had plenty of opportunity to be with the president, at least prior to the last election, a lot of hours alone with him. I mean, meaning me and his staff," Biden said on HBO's "Real Time with Bill Maher" in April 2006. "And the president will say things to me, and I'll literally turn to the president, say: 'Mr. President, how can you say that, knowing you don't know the facts?' And he'll look at me and he'll say - my word - he'll look at me and he'll say: 'My instincts.' He said: 'I have good instincts.' I said: 'Mr. President, your instincts aren't good enough.'"
Bush aides now dispute the veracity of both assertions by Biden.
"I never recall Biden saying any of that," former White House press secretary Ari Fleischer said after reviewing detailed notes of Bush's White House meetings with Biden, which include numerous direct quotes from Biden. "I find it odd that he said he met with him alone all the time. I don't think that's true."
Fleischer said that whenever Bush met with Sen. Biden, the meeting also included a congressional counterpart so as to not "antagonize" the House.
Karl Rove, former White House political adviser, also was skeptical of Biden's claim to have spent "a lot of hours alone" with Bush.
"I remember checking on such a Biden exaggeration while at the White House and no one witnessed the meeting and his comments in remotely the same way," Rove said.
Candida P. Wolff, Bush's White House liaison to Capitol Hill, said the only meetings she remembered between Bush and Biden also included other lawmakers. She said such meetings were held in the Cabinet Room or the Eisenhower Executive Office Building, not the Oval Office, and certainly did not last for "hours."
"The president would never sit through two hours of Joe Biden," Wolff said. "I don't ever remember Biden being in the Oval. He was such a blowhard on all that stuff - there wasn't a reason to bring him in."
Andy Card, former White House chief of staff, reviewed the two Biden claims and said: "This does not ring true to me. I doubt that it happened."
A spokesman for Bush declined comment, although a person close to the former president said Bush does not remember either episode.
This is not the first time the veracity of Biden's assertions has been challenged. In 1988, he dropped out of the presidential race after being accused of plagiarizing British Labor Party leader Neil Kinnock. The Washington Post also cited "the senator's boastful exaggerations of his academic record."
Last year, liberal Slate magazine recalled that "Biden's misdeeds encompassed numerous self-aggrandizing thefts, misstatements, and exaggerations that seemed to point to a serious character defect."
Also last year, Biden came under fire for telling a questionable story about being "shot at" in Iraq.
"Let's start telling the truth," Biden said during a presidential primary debate sponsored by YouTube in July. "Number one, you take all the troops out -- you better have helicopters ready to take those 3,000 civilians inside the Green Zone, where I have been seven times and shot at. You better make sure you have protection for them, or let them die."
But when questioned about the episode afterward by the Hill newspaper, Biden backpedaled from his claim of being "shot at" and instead allowed: "I was near where a shot landed."
Biden went on to say that some sort of projectile "landed" outside a building in the Green Zone where he and another senator had spent the night during a visit in December 2005. The lawmakers were shaving in the morning when they felt the building shake, Biden said.
"No one got up and ran from the room-it wasn't that kind of thing," he told the Hill. "It's not like I had someone holding a gun to my head."
Seven weeks after claiming to have been "shot at" in Iraq, Biden again raised eyebrows with another story about his exploits in war zones -- this time on "the superhighway of terror between Pakistan and Afghanistan, where my helicopter was forced down."
"If you want to know where AL Qaeda lives, you want to know where bin Laden is, come back to Afghanistan with me," Biden bragged to the National Guard Association. "Come back to the area where my helicopter was forced down, with a three-star general and three senators at 10,500 feet in the middle of those mountains. I can tell you where they are."
But it turns out that inclement weather, not terrorists, prompted the chopper to land in an open field during Biden's visit to Afghanistan in February 2008. Fighter jets kept watch overhead while a convoy of security vehicles was dispatched to retrieve Biden and fellow Sens. Chuck Hagel and John Kerry.
"We were going to send Biden out to fight the Taliban with snowballs, but we didn't have to," joked Kerry, a Democrat, to the AP. "Other than getting a little cold, it was fine."
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