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Abortion shouldn't even be an issue. With all the forms of birth control

Posted By: me on 2008-08-23
In Reply to: I wish the government would stay out of my uterus - XanaX

available, many at low or no cost, not to mention abstinence, abortion should not even be an issue.  Too many people use it as a form of birth control and it isn't.  I know there are some circumstances that warrant an abortion, but those are rare.  Abortion may be legal, but it is immoral. 


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My belief? "late-term abortion" or partial-birth abortion" = infanticide, it is sickening
So in these cases I do think, as in most things, there is no ABSOLUTE, but a judicious guideline for this should be investigated and established by the medical community, as far as survival/outcome, but then we must be willing to prosecute mothers and doctors who go outside the guidelines...with established jail terms....and more money to house these "criminals" for years. Why not let God by the ultimate judge, He has the wisdom and the power, and eternity without God is worse than anything we as humans can mandate, don't you think?
How about if some of us are using birth control to be responsible and control.......sm
the size of our families, as almost every family has to do? And believe me, I tried the "rhythm" method, and I have my beautiful son, Alex, as a response. And I adore him, and thankfully we found ways to afford him, care for him in every way, etc., but some sexual aides and birth control are actually used by Christian couples who have been married for 28 years, gong on 29 in May. sex is also important in a loving marriage, not just to "do whatever feels good." There is nothing shameful in married, committed sex.
Pro birth control....s/m
I'm definitely not pro abortion, but am pro choice in, what should be, the rare event of unexpected pregnancy, and in that case I think that the woman herself should be the one to decide whether to terminate the pregnancy or not, and if so, it should remain a safe, and legal option.  It's an extremely emotional, and difficult decision for most women to have to make in that situation.. I did a quick look and see that the abortion rate in the US has declined from 1996 to 2002. I'm going to look for statistics from 2002 to the present when I have more time. I think the key in the main is stressing birth control measures, and also making those measures affordable to all women across all socio-economic groups.
Birth control is....
used to prevent pregnancy......not kill an innocent child AFTER it is conceived.   BIG DIFFERENCE!!!!  How do you people sleep at night?
As far as birth control....I have not seen anything about...
people wanting to remove birth control. Just because an individual elects not to use it does not mean they do not want anyone else to have access. With this permissive society liberals have created there is really no choice but to provide it.

Yes, there are natural causes for miscarriage. That is leaving it up to God. For us to put the life of an innocent child totally in the hands of someone else to choose whether it lives or dies, just as a personal choice, I believe is wrong. Just as those in these orphanges murdered children...it is murder. Killing an innocent for no reason other than "oops" is wrong.

What overturning Roe vs. wade would do is put it back in the hands of legislators who, by the constitution, are the only ones who can enact laws. The Supreme Court should not be enacting laws. They are to interpret...not legislate. I believe it should be overturned because it is unconstitutional. Then put it to a state-by-state vote. Some states would outlaw abortion except in cases of rape, incest, or life of mother. Some would outlaw it, period. Some would allow it in all forms. But at least it would be the will of the people.

Why do you think congress has never tried to pass an abortion law? Even when the democrats had control? Even before Roe vs. Wade? The truth is in the pudding.
BTW, there are much better birth control
options than birth control pills. One of them IUDs, when those are in, there is nothing to 'forget' about them.
Not everyone has the same access to birth control. sm
I guess you didn't watch 20/20 this past Friday night? You can view it on their website. Go to http://abcnews.go.com/2020 and click on Watch: Babies in Memphis

I think everyone who is interested in this current thread would find it interesting, whatever your opinion on abortion is. It was called "Babyland" because that's what the locals call the cemetary where all the premature babies who die are buried if their mother can't afford to bury them.

It was about how the poverty-striken areas in Memphis, TN have much greater rates of premature births and deaths of babies than the more affleunt areas. Why? Lots of reasons, but probably the main one is lack of money, which means lack of prenatal care. No insurance and no easy access to a free or low-cost clinic. Lack of education. The girl they profiled was 18 and pregnant, and they showed another girl who had gotten pregnant at 12 yrs old, now a mother at 13. I mean, yeah, a 12 y/o shouldn't be having sex - she's still a child, but how in the world would she have access to birth control? She wouldn't.

It showed how the closest clinic is only open during the day (and only 1/2 day on Sat., to cut costs). No evening or weekend hours, so what are you supposed to do, take time off work, which you can't afford, to go get birth control (or prenatal care, etc.) which you also can't afford? I mean to you or me it may seem like a no-brainer - if nothing else go to the drugstore and get a box of condoms for $10.00, or the Today sponge thingie, but maybe they don't even have an extra $10.00 (or the time and $ to take 2 buses to get to the drugstore?).

All I'm saying is, the situation is different for everyone. I've personally never had an easy time with any method of birth control I've tried, and it's a bit of a wonder to me that I've never had an unplanned pregnancy because of that. Maybe because of that, I try to be less judgmental of others. Oops, more to say but I've got to go...


Birth control would have been nice.
.
I knew about birth control.
However, was I willing to go to my mom and ask her to put me on the pill.  I knew my mother would have suspected my sexual activity and I didn't want her to know.  Most teens also have the belief that "it won't happen to me."  Now that I'm older, I see how some of the decisions I made back when I was 17 were poor ones, but at that time I thought they were great ideas.  Do I blame my mom and dad for the bad decisions I made back then....no.  Those were my decisions, my choices, and I had to deal with the consequences. 
She supports birth control and ..

supports abstinence-only education in schools, but she has also said she does not support tax payer dollars to distribute birth control in schools. She is a member of Feminists for Life, which is an pro-life group.

Feminist for Life is a pro-life group that has had its positions distorted to show that they are against birth control. Palin critics (including many in the media) have cherry picked in order to smear Gov. Palin.


whose insurance does not pay for birth control?
Mine sure as heck does. It is much cheaper to prevent births than pay for them. It makes fiscal sense.
i'm appalled that she is anti birth control
into office?!?!
My insurance pays for birth control.
x
Guess what? Birth control doesn't always work!
and judging a teen and a mother based on those assumptions?? Sure hope the shoe isn't on the other foot one day. I know many women, wed and unwed, who have gotten pregnant while on the pill, taking it responsibly and consistently. There is no sure birth control, and any woman with a lick of sense should know that without a doubt.

Are you all honestly saying that someone with a full-time job therefore cannot raise a family or is incapable of spending adequate time with their children? If so, then everyone here working full-time with a family, raise your hands because you are now classified as unfit mothers. I don't care if you work from home or not, because even at home, if you're working, then you aren't giving your children undivided 24/7 attention. For that matter, if you sleep at night, you'd better raise your hand because you can't watch your kids if you're asleep. We could always go back to the 1950s version of mothers, I'm sure every child from that era was perfectly well-adjusted.

BTW, it takes TWO to make a baby so why is it always the FEMALE that is blasted? Seriously, especially if you are a woman making such comments, you should be thoroughly ashamed. Unless she's the new Virgin Mary, she didn't knock herself up, and unless you were present during the conception, you don't know if birth control was used. Just because Mom is against it doesn't mean the teen wouldn't use it anyway. Mom was obviously against teen sex but that apparently didn't stop her. Did you do every single thing your parents expected of you? If you say yes, then you should run for POTUS. Perfect people are so rare that any in existence would surely be voted into office. Then again, maybe not, because Jesus is the only perfect person I can recall and he was crucified.
That you can say this about partial birth abortion sm
says to me that you are a proponent of relative morality or that you have no idea what partial birth abortion entails.  Once a society starts with the whatever seems right to you mentality in regards to life, then we are doomed.  Pardon me if I say that I am so glad I am not you.
so now abortion as population control...
lovely thought! As far as my daughter getting pregnant--there are options other than abortion. Plenty of people who want babies can't have them--or there is always the good old fashioned taking responsibility for your actions. I have one child that was a surprise and don't know what I would do without him. With my second "surprise" on the way, I am certain that I will never feel that keeping my baby was a mistake, but I am certain that I would have thought killing him was! The timing is bad, I was a little irresponsible, but babies have an uncanny way of making people happy. It seems to me that our world could use a little more of that.
The procedure of partial birth abortion you describe is...sm
somewhat true, as well as gruesome. However, It is never done as an elective procedure, rather as an emergency procedure in order to save the life of the mother when it is a breech delivery and the cervix clamps down before the head delivers, or when the fetus has died in utero. The few times I saw it done during my career, everyone in the room, sometimes even the doctor was crying. To say that someone choses this to get rid of a baby is simply just not true.
Birth certificate issue still pending

It's good to know this is still pending.


Honor the constitution.


http://texashillblog.blogspot.com/2008/11/scotus-requires-obama-to-show-birth.html


 


some info on the birth certificate issue
The info in the posts below about the SCOTUS order for President-Elect Obama's birth certificate is somewhat misleading. Hopefully this will help to clarify. The article says the Supreme Court has ordered Obama to supply an original birth certificate by 12/1. In actuality, the December 1st deadline is the time by which the DNC must comply with Berg's request for certriorari.

A writ of certiorari is a writ, or order, sent from a higher court to a lower one which orders the lower court to turn over transcripts and documents related to a specific case for review. The term comes from a Latin word which means “to be ascertained” or “to make certain.” A writ of certiorari is one of the ways in which a high court can review a case. When a request for a writ of certiorari is submitted to a high court, clerks review it before passing it on to the justices. The justices vote on which cases shall be granted writs. Since most high courts are responsible for interpreting and defending national constitutions and the law, justices tend to grant writs for controversial cases, or cases which may set a precedent. Once a lower court has been served with a writ of certiorari, it must turn the requested material over to the higher court. After review, the justices offer a decision on the material, either affirming the decision of the lower court, or rejecting it. What this means is only that information regarding the original case has to be turned over. The higher court can rule further after reviewing the lower court decision on Berg's original case, which has already been denied by the lower court as Berg does not have standing to bring the suit.

The goal of those filing the original suit is to cast enough doubt that the electors may question the constitutionality of their vote, and as of now it is quoted that 24 potential Electors say they're filing suit demanding evidence of Obama eligibility. I do not know if this is again "slanted" info from the publisher or fact.

Electoral College Electors swear an oath to uphold the US Constitution. Voting for a presidential candidate, faced with compelling evidence that the candidate is not eligible to be president, would be a severe violation of constitutional law. The author of the original article is asking citizens to contact the members of the electorate from their state to voice any concerns on this issue asking them to demand proof of eligibility, with the assumption that people will believe that no original has been provided and failure to do so constitutes "compelling evidence" of ineligibility.

Here is my disclaimer 'cuz I sure do not want to be beaten up all night for this. I am just presenting another side to the question hopefully clarifying up some misinformation about the order to present an original birth certificate to the Supreme Court. I personally have a very difficult time with this whole thing. First of all, I believe this should have been settled prior to the election and the issue closed once the people voted. Secondly, I think it would be very dangerous for the electorate to vote differently than the populace such it would produce a different outcome to the presidential race, very dangerous!! I also find it difficult to believe that the Democratic party would have taken such a reckless chance as to choose a nominee someone not eligible to hold the office.


Why subject the rape victim to a surgical abortion. Birth is safer. nm
nm
about the abortion issue
At least that explains why u are for McCain. What I don't understand is pro choice people voting for McCain. Nobody said it's murder or not murder. I personally think it isn't and you personally think it is. Why are there no funerals for fetuses of miscarriages? yes, it is a moral issue but I will not dictate to someone that if they are raped OR whatever the reason is.. that they cannot have an abortion. That said, it does explain why you vote for McCain. The other people are a mystery.

every once in a while the issue about abortion
comes up, leads to a lot of insulting and flaming comments back and forth, with no resolve.

Can we just stop discussing this issue?????

BTW, I am pro-choice, up to the end of 3rd month, it is my body and my life and my right to decide how many children I want to have, because I want to be able to care for ALL of my children, without needing support from charity organizations, the government or other people and I am AGAINST adoption.

This Octomon should have had my attitude, then she would NOT be in this miserable situation.

Please, NO REBUTTALS AND NO INSULTS following my post!
every once in a while the issue about abortion
comes up, leads to a lot of insulting and flaming comments back and forth, with no resolve.

Can we just stop discussing this issue?????

BTW, I am pro-choice, up to the end of 3rd month, it is my body and my life and my right to decide how many children I want to have, because I want to be able to care for ALL of my children, without needing support from charity organizations, the government or other people and I am AGAINST adoption.

This Octomon should have had my attitude, then she would NOT be in this miserable situation.

Please, NO REBUTTALS AND NO INSULTS following my post!
every now and then the issue pro-abortion
versus pro-life comes up on this forum. People comment back and forth until it gets out ouf hand and bashing sets in. Every time it ends in this way.
My opinion: It is justifiable to termiante a pregnancy up to the end of the 3rd month. AFTER that not.
I would regard an abortion performed during the last trimester of the pregnancy, what is called 'partial birth' abortion, as a crime and doctors who perform those abortions should definitely get punished and their license wtihdrawn.
Under no circumstances should it be allowed that a person kills a doctor who performs 'partial-birth' abortions. This renders also this person a murderer.

Please do not bash me for condoning abortions up to the end of the 3rd month, because I think that a mother has the right to decide. If during these 3 months she could not decide, then she should maintain her pregnancy, no abortion allowed.



Don't stop at birth cert issue, read the whole site
Obama's camp isn't innocent, either. Just look at the new post re: Obama's false claim that McCain's health care proposal will cut Medicare. There has been so much misinformation slung from BOTH sides, it's ridiculous, but not as ridiculous as one side accusing the other party for something it has done itself too. Hello, it's politics - they're all hypocrites. You just have to decide which hypocrisy suits your beliefs/needs the best.
The abortion issue is just the tip of the iceberg.

It revolves around the issue of privacy and whether Americans have a constitutional right to privacy.  It could potentially involve living wills and other privacy issues, once America accelerates its speed on the highway back to the 1950s.  This appointment is a lifetime appointment, and Miers will be with us long after Bush and company are gone. 


If she had been on the bench in the Terri Schiavo case, God only knows how that would have turned out. There again, Bush tried to inflict his own personal religious views upon a private American family.  Believe it or not, I was actually in favor of keeping Terri Schiavo alive because I believed all the spin that was being thrown in my direction regarding her true condition.  I even wrote to Jeb Bush, encouraging him to keep this woman alive.  Then the truth came out about her true condition, and I realized it was nothing but conservative spin, and this poor woman was nothing more than a pawn being used in order to promote a conservative agenda, and I felt like a real fool for believing any of it.  So you see, I haven't been automatically anti-Bush.  I'm just tired of all his deception, my trust in him is gone, and after all the lies from Iraq to Schiavo, I simply don't believe him any more.


I'm willing to mind my own business, let people live their individual lives on their own to assess their own personal situations as they may arise, and not force my personal religious views on every American citizen.


Are you?


Abortion is a political issue....
it has been since activist judges took the "choice" away from one part of the country by overturning a state law. The Constitution states only the legislative branch can enact law. That is when it became a political issue.
Abortion is a personal issue!
I can think of many more valid reasons for a woman to have an abortion than for a woman to shoot wildlife from a helicopter!
She didn't turn it in an abortion issue - you did
The poster tried to make an unfair slam against Sarah Palin talking as though Mrs. Palin is dumping her special needs child on the cold street corner when the poster knows for a fact that's not true.

Sam was correct in my opinion. All she said was at least she had him and not aborted him - which has been a big "media" talking point.

Your the one who has turned this into an abortion issue. Sam has the right to express her opinion just like the poster has a right to say what he/she did - unfortunately you must think its okay to distort and falsely spread lies.

Like Sam said - you give it a rest. I agree with Sam. I commend this woman for having a baby and choosing to raise it no matter what hardships they will go through. They have a strong and loving family and will do very well for the child.

So go stick that in your pompous attitude.
How many forms have you seen
where you check the box for biracial? I know that he is but he is and always will be viewed as African-American becuase that is what he is.
They cant stop having babies if they have no forms

Conservatives are for control over their own children and less control by govt

you want it both ways, it is dem fault with control, and when they had no control
it was their fault as well. yes GB did not get anything done, no deregulation, no war, no shift of power to the corporations, nothing.

so you are saying he was utterly incompetent?
Control? If you mean, control of putting our country
nm
meant is against abortion...didn't mean supports abortion (NM)

No issue is no issue. Denying that
nm
You shouldn't take it there...

We shouldn't sit through any but nothing you said...sm
offers up a reason why we invaded Iraq. I expect the usual Sadaam was evil, brutal, murderous, and his sons ... (and all of it is true). So it is a good thing that out of this all we've taken them out, now what is holding us there. Let's face it, these folks are going to have to fight it out one day. The strongest will win, whether we leave today or ten years from now. Right now they have a PM who is a prior islamic extremist (see Lurker's post titled Disturbing) - we should not support that. Can you not see history repeating itself? Did our current leaders not shake hands with Saddaam? Did we not train up bin Laden? The way we are going about things in this war is not going to leave us any safer - if anything less so - the region is now even more incensed with hate than it was under Sadaam's thumb. I think our best chance at survival (though when our time is up, it's up) is protecting our homeland. Of course we need to keep our hands and ears in the Middle East, and definitely retaliate against any attacks on our soil or Embassies. It's the preemptive idea that I can't get down with.

We should never ever sit through a 9/11. If
Sadaam was responsible then by all means go after him and anyone willing to fight for him. What we are doing in Iraq has nothing to do with 9/11. In my mind, they are two issues until it can be proven that Saddam had a hand in the Twin Tower attack.

I was young during the Clinton Admin, so I didn't keep up with foreign affairs as much as I do now and I still do not indulge in them a great deal. But now as I look back I think he did a poor job in retaliating against anti-American attacks.


You shouldn't believe it because it just isn't so.

Believe me, Europeans would absolutely laugh at this. 


I know....shouldn't even go there with her...
but it was, as you said...mildy entertaining. lol.
Why shouldn't it go on?
The debate will only take a couple of hours. Nothing is going to get resolved that quickly anyway.
I think what we shouldn't do is just
sit here and watch it go down.  That simply isn't fair to the millions of families dependent on the industry and in the long run EVERYBODY suffers from it.  I think we need to make them not only make more fuel efficient cars but also more affordable ones.  Kill all the tax cuts for imports so we can compete in the market and start working on alternative fuels.  I don't think anyone has a complete answer for all this yet, I know I don't, but to just sit here and let it happen is asking for even more disaster.
It shouldn't have to, but . . .

people in general suck and are selfish and have no desire to contribute to their communities, and these are almost always the same people that whine and moan about how they don't want governemnt involved.


It shouldn't have to, but . . .

people in general suck and are selfish and have no desire to contribute to their communities, yet these are almost always the same people that whine and moan about how they don't want government involved.


You shouldn't a-s-s-u-m-e
that because I am not in love with Obama that it means I supported Bush. I for one did not care for Bush at all! I found myself preferring to rub my ears with sandpaper then to listen to his speeches...kinda like I do now, but with Obama!


Then you shouldn't
call yourself a Christian because a Christian finds homosexuality to be sinful and immoral. Me and you worship different Gods, obviously. Mine says homosexuality is an abomination. Love has nothing to do with sodomy.
No I shouldn't have. I was describing me, not you. SM

Yes, but the government shouldn't be
encouraging companies to outsource either. Our country has way messed up priorities when the only people making big bucks are entertainers and greedy CEOs. Meanwhile, we've got unemployed people and poverty. Hey, let's send our money, our technology and our private data to a country that HATES us.
So it shouldn't be allowed
because everyone might suddenly become gay and there would be no offspring? How about artificial insemination? This is a new one on me!
Shouldn't your pen name be "ROBOT"?

Sorry you couldn't do better......shouldn't have
xx