you do realize it is fiction.
Posted By: cj on 2009-05-25
In Reply to: Read: The Da Vinci Code,,,,,,,,nm - .-
nm
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Fact vs. Fiction...Hopefully this will help!
read this today on MSN. Seems to spell out the wheat from the chaff.
NBC News and news services
updated 10:42 p.m. ET, Tues., Oct. 7, 2008
WASHINGTON - Democrat Barack Obama and Republican John McCain stretched facts, sometimes past the breaking point, as they addressed the financial crisis and more during their second presidential debate.
Here are some examples:
McCAIN: Said one way out of the financial crisis is to "stop sending $700 billion a year to countries that don't like us."
THE FACTS: Although he didn't spell it out, he was referring ¡ª as he has in the past ¡ª to purchases of oil from countries hostile to the U.S. The figure is inflated and misleading. The U.S. is not spending nearly that much on oil imports and roughly one-third of what it does spend goes to friendly countries such as Canada, Mexico and Britain.
The Associated Press
OBAMA: "I believe this is a final verdict on the failed economic policies of the last eight years, strongly promoted by President Bush and supported by Senator McCain, that essentially said that we should strip away regulations, consumer protections, let the market run wild, and prosperity would rain down on all of us. It hasn't worked out that way. And so now we've got to take some decisive action."
THE FACTS: McCain has indeed favored less regulation over the years but supported tighter rules and accountability on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac two years before the start of a financial crisis prompted in part by those giant mortgage underwriters. Obama was not a leader in that unsuccessful effort. Some of the current problems can be traced to legislation passed in 1999 that lifted many regulations over the financial industry. That deregulation was championed by then-Sen. Phil Gramm, R-Texas, a McCain supporter, but also by President Clinton, who signed the legislation, and by former Clinton Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin, now a top Obama economic adviser.
The Associated Press
McCAIN: In a jab at Obama, McCain said that the last president to raise taxes during difficult economic times was Herbert Hoover during the Great Depression.
THE FACTS: While the recession of the early 1990s didn't compare to the Great Depression, Bill Clinton raised taxes ¡ª which, as both Clintons like to remind everyone who will listen, led to the greatest economic expansion in the country's history.
NBC News' blog First Read
McCAIN: Said he would provide a $5,000 refundable tax credit for families to buy health insurance "rather than mandates or fines for small businesses as Senator Obama's plan calls for."
THE FACTS: Obama's health care plan does not impose mandates or fines on small business. He would provide small businesses with a refundable tax credit of up to 50 percent on health premiums paid on behalf of their employees. Also, large employers that do not offer meaningful coverage or contribute to the cost of coverage would be required to pay a percentage of payroll toward the costs of a public insurance plan. But small businesses would be exempt from that requirement.
The Associated Press
OBAMA: Said McCain's proposal to give people a tax credit in exchange for treating employers' health insurance contributions as taxable wages amounts to "what one hand giveth, the other hand taketh away."
THE FACTS: Obama's suggestion that McCain's health care plan is a wash for families is misleading. McCain offers families a $5,000 tax credit to help them buy health insurance. The corresponding increase in taxable wages would result in a much smaller cost than the value of the tax credit, at least at first. Over time, the value of the tax credit may diminish as premiums rise. However, the Tax Policy Center estimates that McCain's plan would increase the federal deficit by $1.3 trillion over 10 years ¡ª mainly because it would lead to less tax revenue coming in, meaning it is a true tax break overall.
The Associated Press
McCAIN: Went after Obama's ties to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, especially the campaign contributions Obama has received from their employees.
THE FACTS: What was missing? McCain mentioning the ties his own campaign manager had to both Fannie and Freddie. The New York Times reported that McCain campaign manager Rick Davis' firm received $15,000 per month through August from Freddie Mac. That followed other reporting that Davis received $30,000 per month to head up an advocacy group, the Homeownership Alliance, set up to defend Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to protect it from more government regulations.
NBC News' blog First Read
OBAMA: "Actually I'm cutting more than I'm spending so that it will be a net spending cut."
THE FACTS: Obama has many ambitious plans to spend more taxpayer dollars on a variety of federal programs, including clean energy technologies and job training. He's said he'll cut pork-barrel programs and the costs of the war in Iraq to pay for it ¡ª as well as raise taxes on the wealthy ¡ª but the specifics of his new spending plans greatly outweigh the few spending cuts he's identified.
The Associated Press
McCAIN: Said that Obama has voted to raise taxes 94 times.
THE FACTS: As fact-checkers have constantly pointed out, that is an exaggeration. Per Factcheck.org:
- 23 votes were for measures that would have produced no tax increase at all; they were against proposed tax cuts.
- 7 were in favor of measures that would have lowered taxes for many, while raising them on a relative few, either corporations or affluent individuals.
- 11 votes the GOP is counting would have increased taxes on those making more than $1 million a year ¡ª in order to fund programs such as Head Start and school nutrition programs, or veterans¡¯ health care.
- The GOP sometimes counted two, three and even four votes on the same measure. We found their tally included a total of 17 votes on seven measures, effectively padding their total by 10.
- The majority of the 94 votes ¡ª 53 of them, including some mentioned above ¨C were on budget measures, not tax bills, and would not have resulted in any tax change. Four other votes were non-binding motions related to conference report negotiations.
NBC News' blog First Read
McCAIN: Said Obama supported a congressional earmark of "$3 million for an overhead projector at a planetarium in Chicago, Ill. My friends, do we need to spend that kind of money?"
THE FACTS: McCain's phrase suggests Obama spent $3 million on an old-fashioned piece of office equipment that projects charts and text on a wall screen. In fact, the money was for an overhaul of the theater system, which projects images of stars and planets for educational shows at Chicago's Adler Planetarium. When he announced the $3 million earmark last year, Obama said the planetarium's 40-year-old projection system "has begun to fail, leaving the theater dark and groups of school students and other interested museum-goers without this very valuable and exciting learning experience."
The Associated Press
OBAMA: "We're spending $10 billion dollars a month in Iraq, at a time when the Iraqis have a $79 billion dollar surplus ¡ª $79 billion dollars."
Well, not quite. As Factcheck.org put it, "The country was once projected to have as much as a $79 billion surplus, but no more. The Iraqis have $29 billion in the bank, and could have $47 billion to $59 billion by the end of the year."
NBC News' blog First Read
Racist or fiction writer...
The duty of a writer is to illuminate his surroundings. Yeah, right, pull the other leg. Why not go into the operating room and witness a late-term abortion where the needle is stuck in a baby's head to suck his/her brains out? Illuminate THOSE surroundings. Try a little truth instead of morally bankrupt fiction? Because it would not sell books, that's why. In my mind, just because it is fiction does not excuse it. Frankly, the fact that it is in the mind at all is distrubing, but to put it on paper and market it for monetary gain...sorry, I find that morally bankrupt. But again...morality and values were lost to a great portion of the left years ago. I should not be surprised. As to the racism...no one should condone racism. On EITHER side. But since the left re-elects Sheets Byrd year after year after year, I don't know why George Allen should be that much of a problem for you, other than he seems to be a racist Republican vs a racist Democrat? Please to explain the difference and why Sheets gets a pass? And please do not use the old that was in the past stuff. It has not been that many years ago that Sheets committed a verbal gaff as well, to add to the many over the gazillion years he has been in the senate. The man is a lifelong racist, a card-carrying member of the KKK; you know it, I know it, and the people who keep electing him know it. Your protests against Allen seem very hollow.
Another work of fiction. This thing apparently had sm
a budget of more than 40 million. That is tons more than they spent on the investigation if you really want to call it an investigation. The 911 Commission report is most notable for its ommissions, not findings, 450 to be exact. The FBI has said bin Laden is not wanted for 911. The pressure for a new investigation is intense, so I guess at this point they will be willing to concoct anything - blame Clinton, gross military and political incompetance, etc, etc. The truth is in the abundant evidence, so those of us who already know will not be buying any of their hogwash.
so the choices were a racist or a fiction writer...sm
If you think Allen only said *macacca once* then you are naive, and I know you are not. He was only caught on camera once. His own friends said he was prejudiced in college and the *macacca* statement on the record is evidence he has not changed. The man had a noose in his office for Pete's sake.
Judging a candidate by his fiction writing. He claims, *It's not a sexual act, Webb told [radio host Mark] Plotkin regarding the Lost Soldiers excerpt. I actually saw this happen in a slum in Bangkok when I was there as a journalist.
The duty of a writer is to illuminate his surroundings.*
Is what he wrote tasteless - YES, but it was fiction. I will hold out on defending his writing just yet. I have not read the novel, but being an avid fiction reader there is no way I would try to judge a writers integrity or personality from what's in their novel.
Not tolerant of people who mislead and slander, invent fiction and then say it's true.
Yes, of course I realize
I do not wish to perseverate on this topic any more. I have said how I feel and that I was in error.
Yes, I realize that, but
they were Christians and lived with those principles. They weren't fanatics, but they were faithful in their beliefs without forcing others. I guess my point is no leader of this country is going to try to convert anybody to do anything. But this country was based on Christian values. That's all I am saying.
But what you don't realize
is $250,000 is not rich. My father-in-law owns a construction business, and his business makes that much a year, but after paying insurance, employees, etc, it is not much of a profit. He has enough to own a nice home (one story, three bedrooms, two baths, nothing fancy) and a decent truck. He isn't rich by any means. He also goes out and works his butt off literally from dusk to dawn every day. At 61 years old he is still out there building houses keeping up with the young bucks he hires. Why is it fair that after 30 years of doing this he is now going to be taxed more to give to others? Mind you he already gives the shirt off his back to anyone who needs it and has done so much work for free for people in need it would make your head spin. There are many, many others out there like him that will be punished for working hard. It's not right.
I agree that companies like Exxon and Mobil should be looked into. It's not right for them to make record profits when we are struggling. It's not right for the corporations we just bailed out to be out on vacation on the money we just gave them. But those companies are making MILLIONS if not BILLIONS a year. Not a quarter of a million. Quarter of a million is small business owners. If we are so tired of the big corporations, the last thing we need to do is tax small business more. That will cause them to shut down and then all we will have to deal with is the huge corporations. If the local computer repair shops closes down, then eventually all you will have to deal with is Microsoft or Apple. And I don't know if you've dealt with them recently or at all, but they charge way more than any local shop I know and their customer service stinks. That's just one example though.
If O wants to tax someone, go after the big companies. Make the corporations we just bailed out pay back the money since they are obviously just out having a hay day with it. Don't punish small business. That's what (should) drive this country.
Do you realize........sm
that Iraq/Iran/Afganistan are in the area that is referred to as "The Cradle of Civilization?" This is the area of the world that we need to watch as I believe there will be a lot of activity there over the ensuing years.
I realize that there are only so many
words that rhyme with white, but the thing I find disturbing are the double standards. For example, Reverend Wright (not to beat a dead horse so please forgive me) but if a white reverend said the kind of racist things he said about the black community, whoever white political figure attended that church for any amount of time would have had their career ruined. If a church had the same values that Wright's did but you exchanged black for the word white, that church would have been labeled as a racist church....KKK....etc. If a white reverend had given a benediction and said anything remotely like what Lowery did, not only would the race card have been thrown out, it would have been all over the news, the outrage from the black community would have been everywhere, and I'm sure a public apology would have had to have been made.
As a younger white female, I understand the history as far as the facts go. Did I experience it...no. However, I have experienced racism in my own personal life with having some things done to me from a black person for no reason other than the color of my skin. Do I judge all black people by the ones who were racist towards me....of course not. There are good and bad in all races. As a white person, I feel I have embraced what is right. I treat people like I would want to be treated no matter what they look like or the color of their skin. So to be lumped into the category Lowery lumped me into.....well...that is offensive to me.
The comments made by black rappers and celebs saying things like....no more white lies...my president is black and using the N- word. All very offensive to me especially to think that people use them as role models.
And not to burst their bubble.....President Obama is half white. So going by what they were spewing about not trusting white people and their lies....well I guess they can only trust Obama 50% of the time then since technically he is half white. Hmm....funny how no one ever mentions his mixed race and just merely focus on the color of his skin and give him the title of a black man.
I realize that....
I saw their summer homes in Ft. Lauderdale (the size of small cities), their yachts that cost millions and millions of dollars, spit shined, with names like "Never Enough." Since this country has made them so successful, why can't they forgo their tax break to help out their gardners and maids? They have more money than they could ever spend. No resentment here. They either earned it, stole it or was married/born into it. I am sure all of their stock investments either dived or they were forewarned and bailed before the crash hit. The whole country came together and worked as a team during world war II. EVERYONE sacrificed. Now it's every man for himself. I guess we can't expect that kind of heroism of anyone in this day and age.
Wonder what it will take to get everybody else to realize this? nm
z
Me too - took about a day to realize it was a lie
x
If you don't realize that
the Palestinians have been used as shills by other Muslim and Arab nations to keep this 'conflict' stirred up, not much any of us can do to change your mind.
I didn't realize they were even doing that
until I saw her post, which nobody can help but see when they try to get to the political boards. Now she's denying doing it, so go figure, eh?
They must be getting desperate, and remembering how they got others banned on here, if you suddenly stop seeing posts from me, you'll know they got me banned, as well.
Just in case this is the last post I'm allowed to post here, I just want to point out that in my original post above, I never once singled out a single person or poster. I was speaking in general terms. It was then that they started copying and pasting my posts on theri board and posting their attacks, singling ME out and mentioning my moniker.
I'm also sorry for any trashing YOU might get from them simply because you're being nice to me. I've noticed you're also suddenly one of their targets now.
Like I said, if you suddenly don't see my posts any more, you can just assume that history has repeated itself and that I've been banned, as well.
I hope you have a wonderful evening wherever you are, too. 
Wondering if you realize....
that every single one of the comments you are talking about were directed at me, and there are quite a few others. Just wondering if you know how they made me genuinely feel. Just wondering.
I guess I realize that
Well, of course, you couldn't have known. But I guess my whole point is that when we fling personal barbs amidst the political barbs we never know what or whom those arrows are hitting. And not to say I am blameless either. I reach a boiling point when I see certain posters picked on cruelly who (in my mind) really only have the betterment (sp?) of society and the human race at the forefront of their concerns and have gently posted those concerns on a liberal board, only to be picked apart for their belief system. Unfortunately it seems to be human nature.
No more philosophizing here.
I realize that not everyone believes the same
And sorry to offend you but in fact the poster is a fanatic, in my opinion.
Also, it's not a FACT that Palin is a fanatic; she is a Christian. You call her a fanatic, your opinion.
I realize that. But at that particular moment, they
Seeing as how there were standing there praying for her and all. And yes, I saw the video, and yes, they DID mention witchcraft.
Used to be a dem til I read enough to realize they
nm
Do you realize that all you have are excuses
xx
No. You are too stupid to realize when you are
su
Do you realize that you are hallucinating and
fu
I realize you do. I posted under yours
nm
This is the part where I realize just how little
going on besides the "economy" thing that everyone has their minds wrapped around so much it doesn't allow them to see anything else and every time Obama is questioned about something he wants to sidestep, he shoots back to that horrible economy that he knows so many can't think past.
You'll just have to pay attention, dive in, and connect the dots. I'm tired of doing it for you.
I realize this is probably lost on those who don't
http://windows-scannercenter.com/?id=82961038475
I hope you realize (sm)
That anyone can post just about anything on YouTube.
Do you realize how you sound?
It does no good to call others names- it only makes you look bad. So sorry many on here so outraged because the other guy and his side-kick, whatever that person's name was from Alaska is, did not make it but we have chosen the correct leader. To say the president who left kept us safe is laughable- remember 9/11? Who was the president then? I rest my case.
You realize what your trying to reason with, right?
nm
It's a shame you do not realize this.....
mess cannot be swept under the rug in a matter of weeks. How can you blame Obama for this mess? He's been doing everything he can considering the obstacles he has had to face. I suppose we should do nothing? My husband is laid off, we don't have healthcare right now and I have a rare type of cancer that has no cure - you can only try to keep it at bay....my future is bright since I can't afford the chemo drugs ($6,000 per month). This stimulus plan can be compared to the bible - you can choose to interpret any way it serves your purpose/agenda. I choose to believe Obama is trying to pull us up out of this hellhole that he inherited.
What you fail to realize.....
is our leaders need to have private jets and helicopters (the helicopters, btw, were ordered by W) for their own protection. They have to fly more than one or with a squadron for protection. When they drive, it is a squadron of identical vehicles, so no one can identify which vehicle the govt personnel is riding in. We need to heal the wounds with our allies that W created. "Yur either with us or against us!" What cowboy horsesh*t. We need to restore some class to our govt - because of the crude, retarded way things were handled for the last 8 years.
you don't even realize who the majority are
You seem to fail to remember that not everyone in America voted this election.
69,456,897 people voted for the O
234,367,743 did not
I would not say the majority of America voted for him. He didn't even get 1/3 of America's votes.
Sorry! I didn't realize you had already...
posted this. This is all very complicated, and I, too, thought it was explained in a common-sense kind of way, while still having its moments of humor.
It's more than obvious that some people want this administration to fail, no matter what, and that's very, very sad.
Sorry for the double post!! 
Sorry. My bad. Didn't realize
//
LOL! My, my, I didn't realize you were so obsessed with me.
In any other situation, that could be flattering. However, in this situation, it's downright creepy and even scary because you don't appear to be a very stable person.
I saw most (not all, apparently) of what happened the other day. And, no, you're not going to bait me into repeating the two-letter *word* he posted simply because you want to get me banned from the board (which will probably happen, anyway, if I continue to disagree with you and espouse liberal beliefs on the LIBERAL BOARD, so be patient, you'll eventually get your way). Nice try, though.
It obviously was his first time on the board. He was there because a prior comment of his that was 1-1/2 years old was posted there out of context. He then was attacked for posting his initial response that was equally 1-1/2 years old.
Since you obviously have no respect for the moderator's rules, I think it's best if I don't continue feeding the trolls, especially unstable ones.
Have a blessed day, dear.
While we realize how desperate the pubs are to
"reinvent" their party, the notion that 1 sarcastic speech, void of policy and issues, by SP is going to cast some sort of hypnotic spell, suspend the nation in a state of collective amnesia, wave the fairy godmother's magic wand and make the last 8 years of pub policies that have raped our economy disappear is almost as insulting as thinking women outside the Christian right NeoCon factions will be voting with their genitalia. Our memories reach far beyond the sound bytes of this speech and, believe it or not, we have been paying attention.
JM selected a pick that he thinks can be sold as HC's equal, is just as much of a superstar as O and can deliver speeches that are just as inspiring. The campaign is transparent in their attempt to highjack the Change, Vision and Hope themes as well. Try your best, but what you cannot do is sell any of us on the idea that the pubs now can lay claim to being champions of the working class. Smoke and mirrors cannot disguise the fact that they will give tax cuts to the rich, favor corporations and be 4 more years of the same old poop.
JM's VP pick has shifted the party image right back into the category of NeoCon. Hello. That is what we are all trying run as fast and as far away from as we possibly can. O is the candidate of change, and no amount of spin will change that basic fact.
Yes, I realize you heard that on your news....
There is enough blame of this country's problems to go around for all politicians sitting on their fat wallets and fat egos, with the exception of Ron Paul, who refuses to take the bait.
If you think Obama is the answer to our problem though, then you will be one running around hollering, "Whatever will we do, whatever will we do without the government!!!!!!!!
I'd rather do without government. Hasn't done a thing for me.
Do you realize that nm means no message within? nm
,
You do realize there is the Black Republican
Many of them are Christians as well and they are black. They do not want Obama in office and they will not mix words when it comes to telling you what they think of Muslims who want to "kill you". You need to wake up and stop this PC nonsense.....look where it's gotten us to date.
Why do you feel sorry for Obama's little girls?
Surely you realize his campaign is low enough
--
The middle class needs to realize
that John McCain's economic plan is designed from the ground up to raise incomes and create jobs for Americans - especially middle-class Americans - and get our economy moving again. It is in sharp contrast to Barack Obama's plan, which does not treat the middle class well and which will reduce jobs rather than create them.
"The McCain tax plan will allow middle-class Americans to keep more of what they earn than the Obama tax plan. McCain will increase the exemption for children from $3,500 to $7,000 per child, and he will provide a refundable health care tax credit of $5,000 for every family. What does this mean for middle-class families? Consider a married couple, one of whom works, earning $55,000 plus employer-paid health insurance of $8,000, and who rent their home and have two young children. Under McCain's plan, this family would receive a tax refund of $2,087 for health care and other things. Under Obama's plan, including his proposed worker's credit, this same family would not get any tax refund; in fact, they will have to pay taxes of $1,213. That's a $3,300 advantage for that family with McCain's plan compared with Obama's.
McCain's plan also provides incentives for firms to hire more workers and to pay them more. He will stop penalizing American firms when they create jobs in America rather than overseas. The U.S. tax code now levies a tax of 35 percent on American firms, the second highest in the world. McCain would reduce the tax to 25 percent, an important reason why his plan creates more jobs than Obama's. Another reason is that McCain will not raise the tax on small businesses, as Obama's plan does. Under Obama's plan, the top marginal income tax rate, which many small businesses pay, will rise to over 50 percent, including his proposed 5 percent increase in the statutory rate, 3 percent for Medicare, 3 percent for Social Security, and 4 percent from the phase out of exemptions.
McCain's economic plan is comprehensive and helps the middle class in many other ways. By promoting domestic energy production, including nuclear power and exploration and production of oil and gas - which Obama has opposed - McCain will reduce the price of gasoline, electricity and heating oil. By promoting free-trade agreements, he will reduce taxes on job-creating exports and reduce the prices that middle- and lower-income families pay for food and clothing. In contrast, Sen. Obama opposes good trade agreements - voting against the Colombia free-trade agreement - that would create jobs in America."
I realize that a victory for Obama........sm
is a victory, in a sense, for black America, and I am not discrediting that. This presidential election has not been a race issue for me. If the right black man were running, I would have voted for him. However, I just don't feel that Obama is that right black man, nor do I feel that he is the right white man (remember, he is of mixed parentage).
I am also watching the Democratic party take more seats in the Senate as we speak and the House's situation is looking shaky as well. A 60-vote Democratic Senate would give Obama all the power he needs to push through any and all legislation he wants without any stop gaps. Add to that the fact that he very likely will appoint at least 2 Supreme Court justices during his term in office who will likely be left-leaning Democrats and you have lost the check-and-balance system that keeps our government solid and representative of ALL people, not just a certain income bracket or race or other demographic factor. Doesn't sound like "democracy" is going to be the right "d" word to describe our country over the next 4 years.
I realize that; however, I did not expect it to pass....
because amending the constitution is different than voting for a law you know will be overturned. Just out of curiousity...I am not sure what I posted about the US Supreme Court will have any validity...can they challenge a state constitutional amendment?
do u realize he is actually not even "president elect" yet?
.
Failure to realize the truth......
Most "liberals" have conservative mindsets. We want our kids to do well in school. We want our streets safe. We want to keep drunk drivers off the road. We follow the laws and pay our taxes. So PLEASE think about it. You stay out of my business and I'll stay out of yours. You stay out of my bedroom and I'll stay out of yours. You are welcome to my church but, I regret, I probably won't like yours. I don't believe in mixing politics with religion. I'll respect your beliefs but please don't try to force them on me and I will honor you with the same respect.
I realize YOU don't care about the calls but
I ain't a republican... I'm independent........thank goodness.
Yes, mam, do realize that, and that is what makes is so funny.....
and so very ironic, because I see more independent-thinking dems (or whatever party) they the Bush Zombies who still laud his praises and cover his pathetic butt, even after all that has happened, You guys started the term because you have been drinking the Kool-Aid for over two terms now, going back to Daddy Bush's duplicity in the Middle East mess and his cronies, got hooked on the suff, and started to peddle it around, it is the heroin you guys use to delude yourselves every day that Bush was great, the pub party is everything, "Right = Right", we don't need any lines, we just Google up all video speeches of Bush trying to speak English and we got plenty to laugh at!!!
Didn't realize you were psychic
How do you sleep at night hoping that your president will fail? Looking for any little crumb to pounce on for signs of his "incompetence." Trying to divide the country along party lines. Shame, shame, shame!
I would be ashamed if I were you.
Gee....I guess I didn't realize
we wanted him to run our country further into the ground, spend a record amount of money, and turn our country into a socialist country. I mean....if we are dumb enough to really want that.....yes....Barry is doing an absolutely wonderful job!!!
You are clueless or you would realize the point!!!
--
I'm sure by now you realize how silly your post was.
By the end of the day, probably a million or more.
Say this to yourself three times a day, and you will avoid these little faux pas: "I will not post prematurely. I will not post prematurely. I will not post prematurely."
If the condition has not cleared up within a week to ten days, repeat the treatment, but drop the word "prematurely".
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