Yeah, this was back in the 80's right when Donny was shaking his hand...sm
Posted By: Democrat on 2005-09-23
In Reply to: Rights under Saddam? Any country where people are tortured, mutilated, and killed is no better - than the Taliban, secular or not. nm
I agree Saddam is scum, but the sanctions, and military pressure during the 80's and 90's and pretty much strapped him. Did he need to be taken out, WELL DUH, YEAH. I just argue the fact that 1) it is not our responsibility. If the people were too afraid to rise against him how can they stand on their own? That is being evidenced with the training of the Iraqi police and Iraqi military. 2) Was this the way to do it? An all out occupation. That country is at the brink of a civil war.
Complete Discussion Below:  marks the location of current message within thread
The messages you are viewing
are archived/old.
To view latest messages and participate in discussions, select
the boards given in left menu
Other related messages found in our database
Yeah. I'm shaking in my boots here.
If the end is near and gloom and doom is just a heartbeat away, why then am I the one who is all laid back and you, dear, are the one with her drawers in an uproar?
I'd suggest you collect yourself, the sooner the better. You are in for a long, long haul.
And my politics and faith are hand in hand. Plus I'm just answering her question.
x
Yeah. It's been a while back and a lot has happened.
That's pretty much what I meant. They held hearings, brought charges, presented their case, proved their allegations. The mandate was to decide whether or not this constituted "high crimes and misdemeanors." Perjury is not pretty...but lying about affairs is not uncommon. Lying about the war...another story. In any case, the charges failed to meet the criteria of high crimes and misdemeanors and they voted not to impeach / remove from office.
I think "booming" is a relative concept. For example, as compared to now, booming it was. Another measure might be if people were better off when he left office than we he took office. The 90s, for the most part, is remembered as a decade of prosperity. I may come back a little later and comment further because I am transcribing today, but for the time being, you may find this article of interest. Would like to hear your comments one way or the other.
http://www.commondreams.org/views01/0109-04.htm
I agree with about the working class, but I do believe that generally speaking, the dollar had more purchasing power then than now. I know that as an MT and single parent, the boom sort of skipped over my house, but on the other hands, things did seem easier and better than now.
You will notice I left out a few things that others might think of as "a good thing." Restoration of the death penalty would be one....NAFTA another. IMO, NAFTA has been a disaster and I considered it to be Clinton's biggest boondoggle. For the most part, I though Clinton was a "cool" pres. I will say this much. He is doing some good things now (William J. Clinton Foundation), but aging does not seem to agree with him, in terms of his personality. He just doesn't seem quite as "cool" as he was before....maybe I've gotten older too.
I appreciate your post and may revisit this later this evening.
Yeah, let her take us back 40 years so everyone can have
at least a sister, daughter, cousin, grandchild, mother, wife, neighbor or aunt who dies from a botched illegal abortion. Then, we can all start over again.
Sarah hasn't earned the right to run this country. Obama has clearly been working night and day, the proof is in the number in his audience worldwide. Even Canada and Germany want Obama. The truth is in the numbers.
The United States today finds itself threatened by three interlocking crises. The first of these crises is economic and cultural, the second political, and the third military. All three share this characteristic: They are of the GOP making.
the good ole' boys don't deserve a second chance. The grand ole party has failed the people by selling out to China to pay for a war and at the same time, gave tax cuts to the wealthiest and corporations (they provide jobs my arse). McCain with Lieberman and the voting jews will have us at war with Iran and well, looks like a battle with russia is in the making as we speak. How do you figure this country will be a better place with four wars, a deficit that will send the country into bankrupty and a female VP who has the statemanship of a redneck fundamentalist.
yeah, go back 50 yr, and take responsibility
for your behavior -- ie, get pregnant, you HAVE the child, even if you choose to give him/her up for adoption. yeah, go back to when we still had some morals, ethics, courage, determination, etc etc. that would be The Way !!
Yeah.....right. Same back at ya...You have all hit my posts 2-3 times....
pile on, try to stop any and all kind of opposition....that doesn't sound like democracy to me. Lockstep party line and if an independent thought every occurred it died a lonely death. Tsk tsk.
Yeah, we got to get those rape rooms back and pronto...
You know, so the rapists (Hussein's henchmen) can practice their sexual preferrence freely....
Yeah, did Elvis come back to life? Is this hollywood?
nm
The 2 issues you describe usually go hand-in-hand.
keep women out of power. The old 'barefoot-and-pregnant' story. As a feminist, I wouldn't vote for a candidate who was against EITHER issue. Being pro-choice has nothing to do with hating babies, etc. Pro-choice has to do with keeping a very personal, private choice just that: Personal & Private, between a woman and her doctor, and no-one else. If a woman hasn't any power over her OWN reproductive system, and whether or not the time is right (if ever) to bear a child, she certainly isn't going to be given much else to be in charge of, either.
The only reason this issue EVER became a hotbed political issue is that the religious fanatics in this country, who have been trying to control the reins of government, picked an issue that was certain to divide people. They took this choice out of the doctor's office and put it in the public eye so that the country could be divided, and in that way 'conquered'. Have to hand it to 'em, some of the campaign tactics, as repugnant as they are, have been pretty slick. Shows they've got some pretty fancy lawyers. The terrorist tactics (threatening, and even sometimes killing) docs who perform TABs; harrassing women entering family-planning clinics; and chasing some family planning clinics out of some towns.
There used to be a clinic a few blocks from my home, and every Friday this looney-tune and his whacked-out buddies would block park a truck with pictures of fetuses on it, and would block an entire sidewalk with their signs, fake babies (dolls), themselves, etc. I guess they think they're scaring people with their pictures & signs, but it only serves to infuriate them. In large part, the attempts to overthrow Roe vs Wade by the religious lunatics of the world is one of the main reasons I stopped voting Republican after Ronald Reagan, and voted Democratic instead.
And then of course there is the issue of our jobs. When that all started going down the toilet (or shall I say - to the Third World) I realized the 'trickle-down effect' I'd been led to believe when I was a Republican in the past was a lie. It doesn't trickle DOWN, the money only gushes UP -- to the ones who already have the most of it.
politics and religion go hand in hand...
Whether or not we like it, many of our laws are governed by religion. Without some sort of religion, who is to say that murder is "wrong," thus making it a religious argument, not a political one (by your methodology) and, yet, we still have a law against it.
Yeah, well, I seem to remember Democrat saying she wasn't African-American awhile back. sm
So which is it?
I have seen some bullying get out of hand first hand
during the same grocery strikes that I referred to in the very small town where I grew up. Scabs were beat up and such. I am not saying it's the norm, but there can be tremendous pressure to vote one way or another--as can be seen right here.
You said it...Shaking my head...nm
x
Right, the Obamas getting out of a car, shaking
nm
Exactly, that kind of shaking.
especially the slobber. Eeeewwwww.
[shaking head]....
you guys are just pitiful.....simply pitiful. It is such a huge relief that you guys are out of power it's unreal.
Torture is okay....killing is okay....they did it in the bible. What cowards you are to hide behind your religion when it comes to your own wrongs (especially since these wrongs, in particular, affect us all) and yet you have the gall to point fingers at others who would try to right these wrongs.
BTW, maybe if you keep telling yourself that torture saved LA enough times, it might actually come true....NOT.
His hands were shaking like a leaf...sm
I was surprised because Bill is usually tough and takes his guests to task.
From my take, there was no denigrating of his nephew's service anymore than anyone else who speaks out against the war. Bill was the one who brought up his nephew's service and threw a fit about it as if his nephew was being singled out by Donahue when he said have your (Bills) children go fight in this illegal war.
I think Bill was just all shook up from being called Billy and Donahue screaming as loud as he was. That part was a joke to me. Thought they were going to bring out the boxing gloves and start round 2. Still LMBO about that.
Shaking off some Bush juice?
Like a dog swings it's head to shake off all that slobber?
Shaking my head. Do you know how ignorant this make you look? nm
.
Shaking my head at the same old asinine lies! nm
.
Phil Donahue is the man. Had Bill O'Reilly shaking in his boots.nm
He makes good points and the only thing you get from his stance is that he doesn't want to fight the taliban, which is unfortunate for you NOT true.
Give a quote where he says the US should not fight the taliban.
Not shaking, just hopping mad at his denigration of his nephews service and his rudeness
x
The House just passed the bill??? No wonder the earth was shaking, that was the new crator...sm
 the country is falling into!
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You've said before that you're leaving, but you and your goons can't sta
hand ups?
On a prior post, I dont know which conservative one of them posted to me that democrats only give hand outs, republicans give hand ups. I asked her to post what hand ups republicans ever have given to the poor and disadvantaged and all I got was a tirade about democrats promoting welfare, etc..the usual baloney from republicans..I still would like the poster to give me a few examples of what ever have republicans done to help the poor of America.
On the other hand....
Since all you guys couldn't see any big deal with Clinton's lying, you should'nt be losing too much sleep over this.
on the other hand
if a teacher was teaching a geography class and was teaching say on Israel. If he/she brought up say the name, Jesus Christ, and gave his opinion about Christ (let's assume the teacher is pro Jesus Christ) then I think his head would have rolled. He wouldn't be on leave. He would be fired immediately.
I heard the excerpts of this tape and the guy was off the deep end and basically giving a political diatribe. If a teacher cannot talk about religion and reiterate their beliefs I think the same should go for politics. Heck, I took three different POLITICAL science classes between the time I went to high school and graduated college, and all those teachers managed not to go off on a diatribe about a particular politician or a political group. As a class we did discuss the differences, but the teachers remained professionally neutral. I think a geography teacher should be professional and objective enough to teach geography without calling someone Hitler.
The darned thing about free speech is that it needs to be applied to everyone not just the viewpoints that one particular group agrees with. I have no problem with free speech as long as the opposite viewpoint is welcomed too. This does not seem to be happening in public schools. It seems one particular political viewpoint wants to hold a monopoly on free speech, and monopolozing free speech is basically nullifying it.
On the other hand.......
There are people who consider themselves homosexuals but because THEY believe it is wrong to act upon those feelings, they and only they choose not to participate in homosexual acts. Why is that?
then she should sue for $1, another lib with hand out....nm
//
That's not God's hand,....(sm)
that's US money.
On the Other Hand
The Republicans specifically slashed $40 billion in direct aid to states from this bill, states that are already reeling from budget shortfalls. This means huge cutbacks in essential state services like police, firefighters, teachers, and state hospitals and massive state layoffs in all areas. This will result in the loss of about 500,000 jobs as a consequence of slashing direct aid to states.
There was absolutely no reason to deny this aid to states except for Senate Republicans deciding they had to cut something, so this was it. They have no coherent approach to the stimulus package except that they don't like spending of any kind, and they've built up the least effective parts of the bill at the expense of the most effective parts.
Our house is on fire!!! And one factor of the fire department thinks the best way to put out the fire is with fewer firefighters and tax cuts, and they want to study the fire some more.
on the other hand...
We have gotten weekly checks regularly for 3 years (not enough to do anything with, but some grocery money) and all his medical expenses have been paid. However, we are now looking at not having any more medical care for the next 15 years because they refuse to do the knee replacement he needs until he is 45 years old. Also, the WC weekly checks are only there for 7 years total. After that, they owe you nothing. Plus, once you go back to work, the WC is hard to get to pay because they try to claim that you "reinjured" yourself on your new job.
We have a very good doctor that we use, he is just limited to the treatments he can offer.
Now, we will just have to let our private health insurance start picking up the payments for anything done.
On the other hand
Does this mean the affected couples can use this as a tax deduction since requiring a permit for the scheduled gatherings would put them into the 'business' category?
It would be well worth checking into.
Fight fire with fire...
yeah, yeah, yeah.....what he failed to mention...
is that the Dems are responsible for the mortgage meltdown which is responsible for the wall street meltdown. Chris Dodd, Barney Frank...totally to blame. Blocked every attemmpt by Bush Admin and yes, McCain, to regulate fannie/freddie. Dems certainly have selective memories...convenient bouts of amnesia. lol.
You might be right, on the other hand. (see inside)
hand ups?? Where?? When?? In your dreams.
You mean like hand ups into the noose of a rope? Hand ups into the rope tied behind a car to drag a poor unfortunate Black man? Hand ups with a full five fingers and then put the other ones down and only leave the middle one standing? Where, where have republicans given a hand up to the poor and unfortunate in America? It has always been the democrats who have devised programs to help unfortunates..and yet when republicans fall on hard times they will use the democratic programs. I have a friend who is solid republican and we decided years ago not to talk politics, to save our friendship. Yet, when she got pregnant and had no one to turn to, as she was unmarried and her family was not nearby..what did she do? Applied for Welfare, Medicare, you name it..The government paid for her pregnancy and surgery and has continued to pay for health care for her daughter..Yet, she is one who always would nag me and rag me about being democrat/liberal..Republicans are a bunch of hypocrites.
The upper hand? TI
17 plus Arab nations and Israel. Yes. That makes sense.
2 first hand experiences
1) In London, many many years ago when my then husband was a chemical engineer working in the Middle East (we were on vacation in London) I became sick and a friend took me to a clinic. I saw a doctor, had tests, 1 xray, got medications and walked out. I kept asking "where do I pay, who do I pay?" and they said, it is free and I was not even a British citizen.
2) As far as insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies go...there is the crux of the problem. When we moved here to Tennessee, I went all over the place trying to get some assistance with my medication bills which had cost me close to $500 per month in Florida. I was not poor enough to qualify for any supplementals, and could not afford $500 a month (I had cut down to the 3 meds I really needed in Florida and just did without the other 2). Anyway, eventually, due to East Tennessee being a poor part of the state and people going without here a lot, certain pharmacies have cut almost all their overhead and have the least expensive of all medications. These are small "mom and pop" places, completely legal and above board, in fact, most are across the street from hospitals for convenience. What once cost me $500 for all 5 RXs now costs me $68. What does that tell you about pharmaceutical companies. I have a hard time believing the insurance companies are any better. Quite a profit margin I would say.
I have seen the stories about people going to India. They say the cost of flying, medical attention and aftercare is still less than it is here and that they can see a doctor of their choosing at a hospital of their choosing. It was on 20/20 or 60 minutes.
Thanks for the hand across the aisle GT...
and please keep your moniker if you wish...it does fit your life experience. I will remain sam. And yes, I believe we are big enough to put this behind us and start new. Neither of us are wrong...we are just very different...that doesn't mean we can't discuss and try to understand one another. I do look forward to lively discussions...I wish you the best in your job search, hope you find a really great one.
Looking forward to your return!
Thanks for that hand across the aisle...
and you hit the nail on the head. We are different, but we can find common ground and be civil. I look forward to visiting with you in the future about all the issues. Good evening to ya!
Thx - the attacks are really getting out of hand
Reminds me of that line in the movie where the guy says "I'm mad as he!! and I'm not going to take it anymore". Really though, I've read back through all the posts and not one post about something positive about Obama's plans. Just attacks to the other side and other posters. I feel if I'm going to get this I might as well just turn on MSNBC, and now I get my MIL who has such hatred for Bush is coming out saying that today market failure (whatever you call it- that 300 or so point drop) she's saying that is McCain and Palin' fault. I don't even get into political arguments with her anymore. It's just mind numbing how closed their minds are. Glad you liked my post.
Sure and the pubs had no hand in it at all.
Maybe if the pubs weren't so against regulating it may have been averted too.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/22/us/politics/22mccain.html?_r=2&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&ref=politics&pagewanted=print&adxnnlx=1222092873-DDzUm2VKJMYWutTohJrNDQ
You want to know about |AIG first hand? I live in...sm
Stowe Vermont. The Stowe ski resort was built as a pet project many years ago by AIG. It was very low key for many, many years for many reasons, zoning etc. So lovely and pristine, no high rise condos, a quaint small town Vermont experience. A few years ago, after years of wrangling, permits were obtained for a huge VERY luxury hotel, ski base lodge, million plus dollar condos, high end shopping in a ski village etc. Fast forward a few years, the hotel is completed and the base lodge almost done, condos halfway complete, no village yet. I guess that technically we Americans now own 80% of this resort. Maybe I can get a subsidized ski pass? I haven't heard of any slow down with the development, but I could be wrong. I wonder if we will be sold off but I doubt it. Very interesting. No one has any idea of the excesses of corporate America over the last 50 years.
You sure do hand her credit for ...
having a lot of power. I like Palin, but I don't believe that she has the power to "almost single handedly divide the country." Perhaps she is a better leader than I thought...
Then fairness should go on the other hand
Just skip over the posts you don't like.
First hand knowledge..........sm
My pastor received one of these letters just prior to the election.
Theory proven. End of research.
You cannot have it both ways. On one hand you...sm
say he is not doing enough and on the other is is asserting himself and being disrespectful. Which is it? Nothing he does or says is going to be right for you repubs.
I know, I know (raising hand)..
It was tada - Bush.
What's that I see? Your hand reaching for your
stimulus check? Come on, fess up. You know that's why you voted for him and why you can so piously state that everyone who voted for him still supports him. No they don't. You don't get out much, do you?
Hand outs?
My handicapped son had to go to the SS office today so they could review his SSI. Because he made $2,040 last year at the sheltered workshop he works in, they are cutting his benefits back. He can't live alone and he is barely making it sharing a house with his sister at his present level of benefits. So, tell me about all the free handouts.
More wisdom in his right hand than the whole
.
|
